Public Toilets & Boys?

crofty28

Hi I would never allow my son, 6 in to the gents on his own, he always comes in to the ladies with me. I don't know how long more I'll do this for but def til he's 8 r 9 anyway. & as for waiting outside the mens & letting tem in on their own? It only takes seconds for something to happen that could damage your child for life. I'd be much more worried about what could go on in the bathroom than a child being abducted from there. I would politely explain to any1 who had a problem with my son using the ladies my reasons for doing so. Yet I'd be very suprised if any of those complaining have little boys themselves.

Elle Collins

Unregistered wrote: »

Outside, a young woman approached me saying she didn't think it was appropriate to have such a 'big boy' in the girls toilets. I explained that I didn't want him to use the mens public toilets just yet and that his dads not involved, and it's only ever both of us on these shopping trips.

You shouldn't have bothered explaining anything about your personal circumstances to her. You should have just told her to fcuk off.

cbyrd

I suppose the best guess in a situation like this is how socially capable is your child. do they know how to deal with strangers?? as in if someone says hello will they run screaming? or if someone is asking them if they want to go have some sweets in 'here' would they go??

I do think it's up to us as parent to equip our children with the know how to deal with situations as they arise..

I would have no problem taking my son with me to the ladies until he's at an age where i know he can get in and get out with little fuss..

I could not live with myself if at 7 8 or 9 years of age he went by himself to the gents and something happened.

Better safe than sorry

and as for baby changing facilities, it's amazing how many cafe's have no facilities for even getting a buggy into the loos.

what do you do then ??

it's mighty difficult pulling up your knickers and balancing a 6 month old:D never mind changing a nappy sitting on the lid trying not to let a wriggler fall... drop the wipes... get poo everywhere the other alternative is change him in the buggy in front of people eating their lunch...

all an experience of yesterday, 3 weeks ago on a day trip... my list could go on..

i would have no problem with a dad bringing his daughter into the ladies and staying with her.

it's not like we're getting undressed outside the cubicles. i think a little bit of cop on is needed in a lot of parental situations. you mind your kids and i'll mind mine..;)

Hellrazer

I have to say something about peoples attitudes to boys using public toilets on their own.

There seems to be a mentality that all men in mens public toilets are some sort of perverts and are out to abuse young boys on their own.

Well guess what--Theyre not!!!

And honestly and in my own opinion I think the majority of men in public toilets would step in if they saw anything untoward happening to a young boy on their own.

I mean common sense prevails here--if the toilet looks dodgy then by all means dont let them use it on their own--I wouldnt even use some public toilets around certain places.But the likes of a shopping centre seems to be a ridiculous argument for bringing 8,9,10 year old boys into the womens--seems to be a bit too much "Irish Mammying" going on.


All in my opinion of course.

positivenote

to OP, it says more about the mind set of this complaining women that she felt her daughters (her) where intimidated/uncomfortable in the presence of your son an 8 year old boy...

LegacyUser

OP here.

'There seems to be a mentality that all men in mens public toilets are some sort of perverts and are out to abuse young boys on their own'

I have to completely disagree with you here. Nowhere have I, or anyone else said that all men in mens public toilets are perverts, out to abuse young boys. No one said that, and no one thinks that (certainly not me). I just want to reiterate that I never said that, nor did anyone else.

But do you not understand that to consciously put your child into a possible danger is something no parent would ever do? When I say possible danger, I need to say that OF COURSE not all men in toilets are perverts, but there is a possibility that there is A pervert in there. It does happen. I know someone personally who it has happened to, and I have read media reports (which no one on boards apparently believes, and shrugs off as an urban myth) about these things happening. I have also recently read an information leaflet by the RCC, which states that young boys are not always abused by paedophiles, but by hetrosexual men who are opportunists. The report isn't online, but I can scan it in here if anyone else wants to read it. This leaflet is of course, based on fact and statistics that the RCC have on record.

Do those of you who are against the idea of young boys going to the toilet with their 'Irish mammies' even fathom the impact ANY kind of sexual abuse can have on a young male? Even an male adult trying to coax a young boy into a situation, can have such a negative impact on that young boys life, as to ruin his life completely. Of course this is the same for young girls, but I'm speaking about boys here, as I only have the one son.

Others have compared letting your child play on a busy street to letting him into a mens public toilet.
In my opinion, and with regards to my own son, these are NOT comparable situations.
Yes of course there are dangers on any busy street - but he has been taught the dangers of crossing the road since he could walk, taught the dangers of talking to strangers in cars since he could understand it. He is aware of these dangers.

He is (as of today) not aware of possible dangers in public toilets because of course I wouldn't allow him into toilets as a 3/4/5yr old. As a result of this thread though, and another thread on boards, I have started to talk to him about how to use public toilets etc. So the process is beginning and when I feel he's ready to use the toilets and be aware of possible dangers, I will let him use them. In the EXACT same way as I allowed him to play out on the road on his own, when I knew he was aware of possible dangers out there.

So this whole concept of using the male toilets being some sort of 'rite of passage' for young boys, doesn't wash for me. For example, we were at the match at the new stadium last night - he came to the ladies with me at half time. There were about ten other young lads, up to the age of ten, in there too with their mothers. Perhaps it was the fact that there were no queues there (!!!) or perhaps other mothers feel as I do :-). Who knows, but I am not alone in my thinking...

Hellrazer

Unregistered wrote: »

I have to completely disagree with you here. Nowhere have I, or anyone else said that all men in mens public toilets are perverts, out to abuse young boys. No one said that, and no one thinks that (certainly not me). I just want to reiterate that I never said that, nor did anyone else.

I never said that anyone said it but just reading through the whole thread would give the perception of what Ive said earlier.

But do you not understand that to consciously put your child into a possible danger is something no parent would ever do?

And its something I would never ever do with any of my four.I mean even reading this thread some people think that Im wrong bringing my 2 young girls into the mens toilets for fear of them being abused yet they are in a cubicle with me.Our 8 year old uses the mens on his own if and when he needs to.

When I say possible danger, I need to say that OF COURSE not all men in toilets are perverts, but there is a possibility that there is A pervert in there.

Theres also a possibility of a pervert in the womens toilets.It DOES happen.

I know someone personally who it has happened to, and I have read media reports (which no one on boards apparently believes, and shrugs off as an urban myth)

Likewise I find it hard to believe.Ive never heard of it happening and I honestly couldnt see it happening in say the likes of Liffey Valley/Blanch etc.But as I said in my earlier post--theres public toilets that I wouldnt use alone never mind let my kids into.

I have also recently read an information leaflet by the RCC, which states that young boys are not always abused by paedophiles, but by hetrosexual men who are opportunists.

While that may be a good point--does it state anywhere in the report that theses perverts frequent male public toilets??

Do those of you who are against the idea of young boys going to the toilet with their 'Irish mammies' even fathom the impact ANY kind of sexual abuse can have on a young male?

Again a really good point but again its based on the assumption that these sexual predators frequent public toilets.

Others have compared letting your child play on a busy street to letting him into a mens public toilet.

See the common thread here--mens public toilets are assumed to be full of perverts/sexual predators and they`re all going to jump and abuse any young boy that enters on their own.Or at the very least a busy road is assumed to be "as dangerous as a mens public toilet"

He is (as of today) not aware of possible dangers in public toilets because of course I wouldn't allow him into toilets as a 3/4/5yr old.

Once again youre asuming that public toilets are dangerous.

I feel he's ready to use the toilets and be aware of possible dangers, I will let him use them.

Surely thats the point of the whole thread-Let them use them when they are ready but I still think 8/9/10 is way too old to be still going into the ladies with their mammy.

So this whole concept of using the male toilets being some sort of 'rite of passage' for young boys, doesn't wash for me.

No one ever said it was a rite of passage.Its about them using them when you think theyre ready.

LegacyUser

Rip my thread apart and disagree with almost every sentence whydontyou!

I'm lost on this one.

This is a choice I have made about my son, who I will try to protect till the day I die.

I'm not assuming there are perverts in mens toilets (you said some stuff was based on my assumptions). I am saying that there is a risk that there is A pervert in A toilet.

The RCC info stuff did not mention mens toilets. It did however mention places where children are left unsupervised - without their parent/guardian or a responsible adult present. It also said that abuse can take 10 seconds or 10 minutes. I said it once, and I'll say it again, even an adult TRYING to coax a young child into a situation, can have an extremely detrimental affect on that child. A boy I know personally, who was approached by a man in a car 2yrs ago (he asked him to jump into the passenger seat and show him where the local tesco was - the boy ran like a madman back to his house), still suffers with anxiety.

I don't have an opinion on you bringing your daughter into the male cubicles in mens toilets, because they are your daughters and you obviously would do all in your power to keep them safe, as I do all in my power to keep my son safe.

And no one used the term 'rite of passage'. But it's whats coming across from those who object to the idea of a young boy using the ladies.

Zen65

Unregistered wrote: »

I have also recently read an information leaflet by the RCC, which states that young boys are not always abused by paedophiles, but by hetrosexual men who are opportunists.

I'm sure that's a mis-quote. Any man, heterosexual or homesexual, who abuses a young boy sexually is a paedophile by definition, surely? No man who is not a paedophile would even consider such an opportunity.

It's a pity this thread is being dragged off-topic by assumptions about the mindset of posters. While we do all seem to agree that the probability of a young boy being abused in a public toilet is very small, the consequence of such an event happening is very severe, so OP is justified in taking precautions.

I would like to think that I would intervene immediately if I saw anything of this nature going on in a public toilet, but the practical reality is that by the time anyone intervenes the kid may already be traumatised. Prevention is the best strategy for this type of situation.

Having said all of this, I do believe that the biggest risks to your kids will not be in the public toilet, but elsewhere, and possibly from people you trust. I think the best preventative action you can take is to ensure your child is comfortable talking to you about such things, so that the typical paedophile threat ("don't tell anyone or I'll kill your mother/brother/sister") will not prevent the child from disclosing inappropriate behaviour by anyone.

Be at peace,


Z

Joey the lips

I have a disabled child. I tell you this for no other reason than to show i need to use the wheelchair toilets. I see a lot of women who bring there boys out use these as well.

I think this is a good idea.

Fittle

Zen65 wrote: »

I'm sure that's a mis-quote. Any man, heterosexual or homesexual, who abuses a young boy sexually is a paedophile by definition, surely? No man who is not a paedophile would even consider such an opportunity.

It's a pity this thread is being dragged off-topic by assumptions about the mindset of posters. While we do all seem to agree that the probability of a young boy being abused in a public toilet is very small, the consequence of such an event happening is very severe, so OP is justified in taking precautions.

I would like to think that I would intervene immediately if I saw anything of this nature going on in a public toilet, but the practical reality is that by the time anyone intervenes the kid may already be traumatised. Prevention is the best strategy for this type of situation.

Having said all of this, I do believe that the biggest risks to your kids will not be in the public toilet, but elsewhere, and possibly from people you trust. I think the best preventative action you can take is to ensure your child is comfortable talking to you about such things, so that the typical paedophile threat ("don't tell anyone or I'll kill your mother/brother/sister") will not prevent the child from disclosing inappropriate behaviour by anyone.

Be at peace,


Z

It's not a misquote.

I'll scan it into my pc in work on monday.

It's not a misquote. I was reading from the leaflet as I wrote it.

Fittle

'Having said all of this, I do believe that the biggest risks to your kids will not be in the public toilet, but elsewhere, and possibly from people you trust. I think the best preventative action you can take is to ensure your child is comfortable talking to you about such things, so that the typical paedophile threat ("don't tell anyone or I'll kill your mother/brother/sister") will not prevent the child from disclosing inappropriate behaviour by anyone'


Agree 100%.

dextero

Is the point here not that mothers dont want their sons going into the mens toilets but that they dont want them going in by themselves? The same would apply if a man was at a shopping centre with his young daughter, what is he supposed to do? I have to applaud mahon point in cork they have childrens toilets where the child can go in and the washroom area is on full view, its hard to describe it, its a very good idea though. Also Debenhams in mahon point have a family toilet which my son thinks is great fun

Lahm

Khannie wrote: »

I had a close call as a youngfella using the gents toilets in Bewleys on Westmooreland street

What happened?

Fittle

Dublin RCC leaflet entitled 'Child Sexual Abuse' states :

' Sexual offenders often appear to be ordinary, trustworthy people and the majority operate very effectively and 'normally' in society. Sexual offenders come from every type of background.
A paedophile is a person whose only sexual interest is in children. The majority of those who sexually abuse children are not paedophiles, but heterosexuals who have adult relationships, as well as abusing children'

I can't scan it, but I've just typed what I'm reading in the leaflet on my desk.

CrazyRabbit

Fittle wrote: »

Dublin RCC leaflet entitled 'Child Sexual Abuse' states :

' Sexual offenders often appear to be ordinary, trustworthy people and the majority operate very effectively and 'normally' in society. Sexual offenders come from every type of background.
A paedophile is a person whose only sexual interest is in children. The majority of those who sexually abuse children are not paedophiles, but heterosexuals who have adult relationships, as well as abusing children'

I can't scan it, but I've just typed what I'm reading in the leaflet on my desk.

I've read of this also. There are exclusive paedophiles who are only interested in children, and then there are people who are interested in adults but can abuse children if the opportunity arises. I'd guess that a lot of these reported 'married paedophiles' would fall into the latter category.