Irish Soldiers in US Marines ?

thefuture Init.

I have recently been told of a situation where a trained soldier, with overseas experience, is taking a "leave of absence" to join the US Marines and go to Afganistan - I have been unable to clarify if this is the full story.

Question: Are there such schemes whereby members of our defence forces can take "leave" and join another countries military?

Many thanks,

Diarmaid.

tac foley

thefuture Init. wrote: »

I have recently been told of a situation where a trained soldier, with overseas experience, is taking a "leave of absence" to join the US Marines and go to Afganistan - I have been unable to clarify if this is the full story.

Question: Are there such schemes whereby members of our defence forces can take "leave" and join another countries military?

Many thanks,

Diarmaid.

There are exchange post within various military organisations in NATO, usually at Captain level and above in the army and air force, much less so in the various navies due to the usually very long naval deployments. I have both been an exchange officer and have, in turn, employed exchange officers from certain other countries in NATO.

However, I think it unlikely that an Irish 'trained soldier' other rank would be posted out to the USMC, which is, intrinsically navy, unless he was, perhaps, a Ranger. Even so, going to Afghanisatan with the USMC implies a type of training not normally associated with even the Rangers.

In any case, 'taking a leave of absence' to do it would probably end in court-martial.

Right now it's a 'beer-party story', and until proven as fact, likely to remain so, in fact, my Bullshirt meter is ringing overtime.

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

Manic Moran

A possibility is that he has taken his leave of absence, and is going to Afghanistan with the Marines, but not as a Marine. For example, let's say he's an amatuer documentarist and goes effectively as an embedded journalist to make a movie. We had such an amateur documentarist tag along with our unit for a while.

NTM

Praetorian Saighdiuir

What was happening up until 2 years ago was this. Soldiers, mainly officers, were taking a year or 2 of leave of absence and going over to Iraq to work for some PMC's.

This was never done with the knowledge or consent of the Dept. of Defence or the Defence Forces.

This has officially been stopped.

thefuture Init.

tac foley wrote: »

Right now it's a 'beer-party story', and until proven as fact, likely to remain so, in fact, my Bullshirt meter is ringing overtime.

Thanks for your input, I expect you may be right about the "beer-party", roumers can often grow legs!

However, I don't get the bit about the 'Blueshirts'?

Thanks,

Diarmaid

tac foley

Manic Moran wrote: »

We had such an amateur documentarist tag along with our unit for a while. NTM

You did? An Irish 'soldier'?

Do tell.

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

tac foley

thefuture Init. wrote: »

Thanks for your input, I expect you may be right about the "beer-party", roumers can often grow legs!

However, I don't get the bit about the 'Blueshirts'?

Thanks,

Diarmaid

Sir - it seems we have the answer to our question.

I wrote 'bullshirt'. This is a polite way of expressing a substantial amount of disbelief in the statement to which it refers.

(Handy hint - remove the letter 'r' in the second half of the word.)

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

iceage

Picture paints a thousand words Tac, no need to be so polite.

As to the Irish heads in iraq thing..there were some irish accents heard recently in the Seychelles as well, mostly Ex by all acounts but then again who knows these days. A lot can happen in a year or two's leave of absense.

Manic Moran

tac foley wrote: »

You did? An Irish 'soldier'?

Do tell.

No, no, an amateur documentarist. From Reno, Nevada, he was. But he wasn't a reporter with an agency as would be ordinarily the case, in effect he was a private citizen who just went to the Army, said "Do you mind awfully if I tag along with one of your units with a camera", and the Army said 'Yes'.

NTM

tac foley

iceage wrote: »

Picture paints a thousand words Tac, no need to be so polite.

As to the Irish heads in iraq thing..there were some irish accents heard recently in the Seychelles as well, mostly Ex by all acounts but then again who knows these days. A lot can happen in a year or two's leave of absense.

Thank you for your post and for the suitable illustration. I might have mentioned in the past that I operate on a Japanese OS, and can neither post images nor emoticons as a result. However, I'm also very aware that I am a guest here on sufferance, and prefer to keep my posts as uncontentious as I can by being polite.

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

tac foley

Manic Moran wrote: »

No, no, an amateur documentarist. From Reno, Nevada, he was. But he wasn't a reporter with an agency as would be ordinarily the case, in effect he was a private citizen who just went to the Army, said "Do you mind awfully if I tag along with one of your units with a camera", and the Army said 'Yes'.

NTM

Army not Marines.

YOU know that.

Reno? Then he's a US citizen to boot.

Here we are discussing the possibility that serving members of the Irish Army have allegedly taken leave of absence to go to Afghanistan and play at being an 'embedded journalist'. I'm pretty certain that the State Department, the DoD, the FBI and Homeland Security, the Immigration Service, and last but not least, the International Press Association, might have something to add to this post, if they were reading it.

I'll say no more about the comment that officers in the Irish Army seem to be able to take 'a year or two leave of absence' out of their career to go swanning around Iraq or even Helmand or whatever for the craic, and leave it at that. Had I known that the Irish Armed forces, and in particular the officer corps, had such a relaxed attitude to its employment structure I might have joined it instead of the BA.

I'm out of the discussion at this point, thanks.

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

Poccington

benwavner wrote: »

What was happening up until 2 years ago was this. Soldiers, mainly officers, were taking a year or 2 of leave of absence and going over to Iraq to work for some PMC's.

This was never done with the knowledge or consent of the Dept. of Defence or the Defence Forces.

This has officially been stopped.

:rolleyes:

Post completely unsubstantiated rumours about the DF and Officers in particular on a public forum.

Good stuff..

Manic Moran

Army not Marines.

YOU know that.

I don't think the DOD is that picky when it comes to people wandering around military bases. If they can wander around an Army base, they can wander around Marine. I'm Army and have Coast Guard base access decals on my cars, they get me into all DOD facilities. USCG isn't even a DOD organisation.

Reno? Then he's a US citizen to boot.

And? When I was in Iraq, I was assigned to be the unit's liaison to a chap from the Times who was embedded with us, as I was the only person in the Task Force who spoke English as opposed to American. I strongly doubt that he was a US citizen, though it must be said, I didn't ask. I figured if he talks like an Englishman, lives in England, and works for an English paper, chances are he's English.

Here we are discussing the possibility that serving members of the Irish Army have allegedly taken leave of absence to go to Afghanistan and play at being an 'embedded journalist'.

Yes.

I don't see why it isn't possible, certainly not from the USian point of view, and after having dealt with a number of reporters in theatre.

I'm pretty certain that the State Department, the DoD, the FBI and Homeland Security, the Immigration Service, and last but not least, the International Press Association, might have something to add to this post, if they were reading it.

Like what?

No reporter, regardless from where he's from, should have a security clearance and access to sensitive information. Unless he's from an actively hostile organisation or country, and I doubt an Irishman counts, he is as able to go play reporter as an American is. INS, DHS and FBI wouldn't even have anything to do with it, as it's not within the US.

NTM

iceage

I wasn't aware of the OS issue there Tac my Apologies, and to your last and finer point I totally agree with you. Politeness point taken.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Poccington wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Post completely unsubstantiated rumours about the DF and Officers in particular on a public forum.

Good stuff..

It might be rumour to you, but it is FACT to me and plenty of other people.

Also, it is not a state secret or debilitating to the Defence Forces.

I am not trolling or posting confidential information, hearsay, canteen talk, grapevine or bull$h1t. If you have a problem with FACTS then that is your problem.

I was informing the OP of a possible alternative to what he has been told. I feel that his inaccurate original post may have led us down a path of hearsay and conjecture, so I have informed this thread of the FACTS.

I clearly stated:

"This was never done with the knowledge or consent of the Dept. of Defence or the Defence Forces"

This was done solely at the discression of the individuals while on leave of absence.

You sound as if the DF has something to hide.

troubleshooter

benwavner wrote: »

It might be rumour to you, but it is FACT to me and plenty of other people.

Also, it is not a state secret or debilitating to the Defence Forces.

I am not trolling or posting confidential information, hearsay, canteen talk, grapevine or bull$h1t. If you have a problem with FACTS then that is your problem.

I was informing the OP of a possible alternative to what he has been told. I feel that his inaccurate original post may have led us down a path of hearsay and conjecture, so I have informed this thread of the FACTS.

I clearly stated:

"This was never done with the knowledge or consent of the Dept. of Defence or the Defence Forces"

This was done solely at the discression of the individuals while on leave of absence.

You sound as if the DF has something to hide.

Its BS, you have to be a US citizen or have a green card to enlist in their military. Not sure about the Iraq claim, its certainly not allowed.

http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0615/D.0615.200602230026.html


Mr. O’Dea: I propose to take Questions Nos. 10 and 37 together.

I am aware that there were some media reports along these lines last year. The military authorities advise me that they have no knowledge of any serving Permanent Defence Force personnel, who are on career breaks from the Permanent Defence Force being in Iraq. Nonetheless, at the time when these media reports appeared, the military authorities wrote to all personnel who were on career breaks and reminded them of the conditions under which their career breaks had been granted.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlcitizen.htm


In order to join the US Military, you must either be a US citizen, or you must be a legal permanent immigrant, physically living in the United States, with a green card. The US military cannot and will not assist with the immigration process. If you are not a US citizen, you must legally and permanently immigrate to the United States first, via the regular immigration procedures and quotas, establish a residence, and then (if you meet the other qualifying criteria), visit a military recruiter's office and apply for enlistment.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

troubleshooter wrote: »

Its BS, you have to be a US citizen or have a green card to enlist in their military. Not sure about the Iraq claim, its certainly not allowed.

http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0615/D.0615.200602230026.html


Mr. O’Dea: I propose to take Questions Nos. 10 and 37 together.

I am aware that there were some media reports along these lines last year. The military authorities advise me that they have no knowledge of any serving Permanent Defence Force personnel, who are on career breaks from the Permanent Defence Force being in Iraq. Nonetheless, at the time when these media reports appeared, the military authorities wrote to all personnel who were on career breaks and reminded them of the conditions under which their career breaks had been granted.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlcitizen.htm


In order to join the US Military, you must either be a US citizen, or you must be a legal permanent immigrant, physically living in the United States, with a green card. The US military cannot and will not assist with the immigration process. If you are not a US citizen, you must legally and permanently immigrate to the United States first, via the regular immigration procedures and quotas, establish a residence, and then (if you meet the other qualifying criteria), visit a military recruiter's office and apply for enlistment.

I never said anything about serving Irish soldiers joining the US military. This definately can not happen.

If you actually read my first post properly, you would know know that i was talking about serving Irish soldiers working for PMC's in Iraq while on LOA.

And for the 3rd time I will post this sentance:

"This was never done with the knowledge or consent of the Dept. of Defence or the Defence Forces"

So, obviously Mr. O Dea and the DoD are going to say that it didnt happen...

...but it did.

Poccington

benwavner wrote: »

It might be rumour to you, but it is FACT to me and plenty of other people.

Also, it is not a state secret or debilitating to the Defence Forces.

I am not trolling or posting confidential information, hearsay, canteen talk, grapevine or bull$h1t. If you have a problem with FACTS then that is your problem.

I was informing the OP of a possible alternative to what he has been told. I feel that his inaccurate original post may have led us down a path of hearsay and conjecture, so I have informed this thread of the FACTS.

I clearly stated:

"This was never done with the knowledge or consent of the Dept. of Defence or the Defence Forces"

This was done solely at the discression of the individuals while on leave of absence.

You sound as if the DF has something to hide.

Facts? How exactly are they facts?

You came into the thread and said "Oh well lads(Mostly Officers) go on a years LOA and do a bit of PMC work in Iraq/Afghanistan"

That's not fact, that's nothing close to fact. That's just you throwing out a sentence without any evidence to back it up in the slightest. It creates the line of thought that troops just go running off and do a bit of PMC work for a year, then come back and everything is grand. Also, do you have any proof that it's mostly Officers?

Of the 3 serving and ex serving DF members named in a Sunday newspaper roughly 3-4 weeks ago as having done PMC while on LOA, none of them were Officers.

So unless you're going to make posts where you claim troops and Officers in particular are running off to do PMC work and then provide evidence, don't do it.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Poccington wrote: »

Facts? How exactly are they facts?

You came into the thread and said "Oh well lads(Mostly Officers) go on a years LOA and do a bit of PMC work in Iraq/Afghanistan"

This is what I actually said:

"What was happening up until 2 years ago was this. Soldiers, mainly officers, were taking a year or 2 of leave of absence and going over to Iraq to work for some PMC's.

This was never done with the knowledge or consent of the Dept. of Defence or the Defence Forces.

This has officially been stopped"

That's not fact, that's nothing close to fact. That's just you throwing out a sentence without any evidence to back it up in the slightest. It creates the line of thought that troops just go running off and do a bit of PMC work for a year, then come back and everything is grand. Also, do you have any proof that it's mostly Officers?

It is FACT. Just because you are not aware of it doesnt make it untrue. Internet discussion board Moderators do not know everything.

Of the 3 serving and ex serving DF members named in a Sunday newspaper roughly 3-4 weeks ago as having done PMC while on LOA, none of them were Officers.

So by your logic,....if they are not named in a rag then it didnt happen? You should know better than that.



So unless you're going to make posts where you claim troops and Officers in particular are running off to do PMC work and then provide evidence, don't do it.

Dont be hiding behind the "post proof" statement. You know as well as I do that it would be improper. So, your advice to me as a Moderator, is to post names, dates, locations of the people who directly broke certain aspects of DFR's, just so I can post on a forum? ...and I suppose you would idealy like some scanned paperwork to this effect? Well, I would not even contemplate to post this type of sensitive information on the Internet just to back up my FACTS. Its irrelevant if you dont agree with my FACTS, because I dont need you to.

Look, certain members of the DF did work for PMC's while on LOA. The ones that I know of are mostly officers. I am mearly posting what i know of. If you know that there were more other ranks doing it then fair enough, i take your point.

But the fact that you have a point, surely confirms that you know that this did actually happen.

This is what you quoted above:

"Of the 3 serving and ex serving DF members named in a Sunday newspaper roughly 3-4 weeks ago as having done PMC while on LOA, none of them were Officers."

This is what you quoted the other day:

"Post completely unsubstantiated rumours about the DF and Officers in particular on a public forum.

Good stuff.."

If you belive whats wrote in a rag, which you do. Then the rumours are substantiated. So, make up your mind. You cant say it didnt happen if you are quoting extracts from a paper which said it did happen.

Once again, I am not trolling or looking for a reaction. I am posting FACTS.

Manic Moran

You came into the thread and said "Oh well lads(Mostly Officers) go on a years LOA and do a bit of PMC work in Iraq/Afghanistan"

That's not fact, that's nothing close to fact. That's just you throwing out a sentence without any evidence to back it up in the slightest. It creates the line of thought that troops just go running off and do a bit of PMC work for a year, then come back and everything is grand. Also, do you have any proof that it's mostly Officers?

In fairness, what do you want him to do to prove it? Provide scans of the individuals' airline tickets to Kabul? Get them to sign on and said 'Yeah, I'm one of them?'. Find the PMC payroll records and post them by name and home of record?

If the Army authorises a block of leave long enough to allow a soldier to do PMC work on the side, it is entirely possible that some have done so. And, it seems by the newspaper article, some actually have.

NTM

Kinza

Going back to the original question just thought I'd make you aware of a book by a Dubliner Graham Dale, he served with the USMC as a reservist and went to Iraq. Decent enough read, think its called the Green Marine. Obviously he was not a serving member of the PDF or anything, think he had been in the RDF before moving over to the USA.

cushtac

Kinza wrote: »

Going back to the original question just thought I'd make you aware of a book by a Dubliner Graham Dale, he served with the USMC as a reservist and went to Iraq. Decent enough read, think its called the Green Marine. Obviously he was not a serving member of the PDF or anything, think he had been in the RDF before moving over to the USA.

Graham had been in the FCA, but was well gone by the time he emigrated.

xflyer

You won't get a green card unless you have discharge documents proving you no longer have any connection or the potential to be recalled to the Irish or any army. That's what happened when I got my green card. I had to get proof I was out of the FCA and couldn't be recalled. Turns out I wasn't officially out as it happens.

So if you wished to join the Marines on the basis of your military experience. You would need to demonstrate you were no longer a member of the Irish defence forces. A soldier on an LOA isn't exactly that.

So the story is BS.

thefuture Init.

Well, since I first come accross the idea of serving Irish soldiers taking leave to joing the USMC I have come across it again in a different context ...

I am told that soldiers can take leave of absence after service a number of years ... in doing so I understand that approx 5 serving soldiers are taking leave BUT to work with 'military contrators'. The plan is that they are to get training out in US and then ship to Iraq for a tour of duty ???

Please tell me this scenario is not allowed?

Diarmaid

tac foley

thefuture Init. wrote: »

Well, since I first come accross the idea of serving Irish soldiers taking leave to joing the USMC I have come across it again in a different context ...

I am told that soldiers can take leave of absence after service a number of years ... in doing so I understand that approx 5 serving soldiers are taking leave BUT to work with 'military contrators'. The plan is that they are to get training out in US and then ship to Iraq for a tour of duty ???

Please tell me this scenario is not allowed?

Diarmaid

Do you mean like the Blackwater people?

Discredited mercenaries?

What does the Irish Constitution have to say about Irish citizens who engage in mercenary activities whilst still claiming Irish citizenship?

This 'long leave of absence' you speak of whereby serving members of the PDF can take a couple of years out to do whatever takes their fancy seem like total BS to me.

In fact, the whole story sounds like a cheap novel fantasy. Are you going to let us know who is filling your head with all this shyte?

tac

oncevotedff

thefuture Init. wrote: »

Question: Are there such schemes whereby members of our defence forces can take "leave" and join another countries military?

No

Fishtits

Jeez, this has grown legs...

Fishtits is ex PDF, UN, PMC.

I've never met, or heard of PDF guys while working in PMC.

What is the current situation re leave of absence in the PDF?