Why no express bus to Cork from Dublin??

BazNuge

I see IE have stuck on a 2 euro "booking charge" on all online transactions. Fun fun. So one way to Cork is now €38.

Might as well buy it in the Station, there was no advantage to buying in advance unless you turned up early to get your "guaranteed" seat!

Stark

Ah sure, there's a new toll on the M8 now. We can't have Irish Rail falling behind now can we?

BenShermin

BazNuge wrote: »

I see IE have stuck on a 2 euro "booking charge" on all online transactions. Fun fun. So one way to Cork is now €38.

Might as well buy it in the Station, there was no advantage to buying in advance unless you turned up early to get your "guaranteed" seat!

Welcome to C&T Baz.

To be fair there is plenty of €10 and €20 one way fares available to/from Dublin/Cork online if you book off peak.

With regards "guaranteed seats", my friend and I kicked two passengers out of OUR seats a few weeks ago who already started to eat their packed lunch. They were none too happy:D.

BazNuge

BenShermin wrote: »

To be fair there is plenty of €10 and €20 one way fares available to/from Dublin/Cork online if you book off peak.

They're getting skinnier on the ground - gone is the Sunday afternoon Cork to Dublin for €20. I wish CIE would let you get a better price if you book in advance, well in advance, but I have to do the friday-sunday thing (lady in Cork :cool:) so no joy for me!

BenShermin wrote: »

With regards "guaranteed seats", my friend and I kicked two passengers out of OUR seats a few weeks ago who already started to eat their packed lunch. They were none too happy:D.

Oh, i had a lovely gentleman, seemed like your stereotypical Italian pensioner, who was bellowing "you will regret this" at the inspectors. When I took my seat, which he was in in, he told me "congratulations for buying a seat" before storming off to the dining cart.

Anywho...I think its just that €2 charge for "booking" that's got my bile back up. Until the express bus comes, I'm gonna have to start driving down, be guts of €20 cheaper per journey, and faster. I haven't been on a train i can remember that did Dublin-Cork in 2.45.

devnull

The €2 booking charge just puts me even more away from using the train. I prefer to travel with Aircoach personally, If I'm going to Cork for the weekend or so I'd get the 7am out to Cork and the 7pm back. Not only is it around half an hour quicker than Bus Eireann, but the first departure is an hour earlier and the last is an hour later.

If the train was a bit cheaper I'd use it a lot more, but when I can get a bus for €22 return when I don't have to travel at certain times to get a decent price, it's a no brainier for me. Generally in other countries I prefer rail travel but the cost I don't think is worth it here. I've been hit by the recession and to pay €76 to travel on the train the times I want or to pay €22 euro return, there is little to no contest for me.

T Corolla

BenShermin wrote: »

Welcome to C&T Baz.

To be fair there is plenty of €10 and €20 one way fares available to/from Dublin/Cork online if you book off peak.

With regards "guaranteed seats", my friend and I kicked two passengers out of OUR seats a few weeks ago who already started to eat their packed lunch. They were none too happy:D.

The cheapest one way fair to Cork is 10euros on the 10am train arriving that the only service with 10euros all the rest are 20 and 36euros. The cheapest return is 30 euros arriving in Cork at 1pm leaving Cork next day at 18:30 arriving Dublin 21:25. I can see why the 10euro fares are less likely on this service. I looked at booking a fair on 24Aug returning the next day and the online application and the outbound service is 60% booked.

devnull

I notice that Bus Eireann ran a Dublin to Cork direct service on every departure and vice versa yesterday, I know there was a match on, but I have seen them do this even when there is not any events on before.

So what I am wondering is how is this allowed when they do not have a contract to do so. It is no different than what Citylink done, as they also operated a direct service when they only had a license for a stopping service.

foggy_lad

devnull wrote: »

I notice that Bus Eireann ran a Dublin to Cork direct service on every departure and vice versa yesterday, I know there was a match on, but I have seen them do this even when there is not any events on before.

So what I am wondering is how is this allowed when they do not have a contract to do so. It is no different than what Citylink done, as they also operated a direct service when they only had a license for a stopping service.

they are just running an extra bus that takes up the slack so they put all cork passengers on the express and the other bus does the stops in between.

devnull

But on some departures Citylink were full too but the excuse didn't work for them?

I agree that if a bus is full they should be able to provide an extra bus on the same route so everyone can travel, but in some cases these buses are being scheduled to operate, regardless if one is needed or not.

BazNuge

It annoys me they do run direct buses, but never tell anyone!

The one time I took the CityLink direct to Galway, it was such a refreshing difference from the Cork bus. I mean, bar the stops at the toll gates, i dozed nearly all the way.

Bring on the Rocketbus!

KC61

Devnull - I would refer you to the extract below from the public service contract which does permit the operation of auxiliary departures.

In this Contract the following words and expressions shall have the meaning
herein assigned to them unless there is something in the subject matter or
context inconsistent with such meaning.
13.1.1 “an Auxiliary Departure” means a departure on a route that is referred
to in Schedule A that departs as close to the timetabled departure as
safe and as operationally possible, serves all or some points of the
route and terminates on that route, which is deployed for the purposes
of accommodating unanticipated additional demand for a Scheduled
Departure on that route; and
13.1.2 “Scheduled Departure” means a departure that is referred to in the
published timetable or on the Bus Éireann website at
www.buseireann.ie that is referred to in Schedule A or in that website
that is updated from time to time with the approval of the Authority
following the making of this Contract.
13.2 A reference to a departure of a service on a route referred to in Schedule A
shall, unless otherwise stated in the timetable for that route, be regarded as a
reference to the departure of a single bus.
13.3 Subject to Clause 13(5) and (6), the Operator may deploy buses to facilitate
Auxiliary Departures on a route referred to in Schedule A, where the Operator
determines reasonably on any given day that there is additional demand for the
deployment of such departures which could not have been reasonably
anticipated.
13.4 The approval of the Authority is not required in respect of the deployment of
an Auxiliary Departure that operates for not more than 15 Working Days,
consecutively or otherwise, within a period of not more than 3 Months
provided the Operator informs the Authority of the operation of that departure
within 5 Working Days of the first operation of that departure and that the
departure otherwise complies with this clause.
13.5 The following departures shall not be regarded as being Auxiliary Departures-
(a) any departure on a route that is additional to a Scheduled Departure
for that route that does not comply with the definition of an Auxiliary
Departure set out in Clause 13.1;
(b) any additional departures on a route that is referred to in Schedule A,
including departures that would otherwise comply with the definition
of an Auxiliary Departure set out in Clause 13(1), but do not comply
with the provisions of Clause 13.4; or
(c) any non-scheduled departure on a route that is referred to in any
schedule or timetable published or displayed in any format by the
Operator or any other operator which provides services on a
subcontracting basis to the Operator in respect of the route in
question.
13.6 It is agreed that:
(a) where the Operator proposes to deploy or deploys additional
departures to which Clause 13(5) refers, it must apply for the prior
approval of the Authority, in a manner to be determined by the
Authority to the operation, of that service providing any details that
the Authority may require;
(b) the Authority shall consider an application made under paragraph (a)
having regard to section 52 (5) of the Act of 2008 and Clause 4 and
may approve or reject the application or impose conditions; and
(c) where the Authority approves an application, the departure in
question shall be regarded as being part of the Scheduled Departures
on the route in question for the purposes of this contract.
13.7 Any departures operated in accordance with the arrangements set out in this
Clause shall not attract additional subvention to that to which this Contract
relates.

devnull

But my question still remains, is why are Bus Eireann allowed to do this and other operators are not? I can understand them offering extra buses on the same route as per their license, but not how they are allowed to operate a nonstop bus and a non-nonstop bus.

In the Citylink case it was argued that they were operating extra departures directly via a different stopping pattern to the license they held and that was not allowed?

KC61

devnull wrote: »

But my question still remains, is why are Bus Eireann allowed to do this and other operators are not? I can understand them offering extra buses on the same route as per their license, but not how they are allowed to operate a nonstop bus and a non-nonstop bus.

In the Citylink case it was argued that they were operating extra departures directly via a different stopping pattern to the license they held and that was not allowed?

Read the definition in clause 13.1.1 above which allows the relief service to serve all or some points of the route:

“an Auxiliary Departure” means a departure on a route that is referred
to in Schedule A that departs as close to the timetabled departure as
safe and as operationally possible, serves all or some points of the
route and terminates on that route, which is deployed for the purposes
of accommodating unanticipated additional demand for a Scheduled
Departure on that route; and

As for Citylink - they were operating two timetables at the time devnull - it was not just a case of operating relief services.

One would need to query the NTA/DoT and the terms of their licence with regard to operating relief services.

antoinolachtnai

But this is an expressway service surely? The public service contract has nothing at all to do with Expressway services.

Terrontress

Dr. Michael Grimes of Kells Transport was saying that the Aircoach buses regularly treat the regulations with an element of flexibility, especially as regards reduced speed limits.

I can't see why they don't just run a non-stop service.

KC61

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

But this is an expressway service surely? The public service contract has nothing at all to do with Expressway services.

Fair point.

KC61

Terrontress wrote: »

Dr. Michael Grimes of Kells Transport was saying that the Aircoach buses regularly treat the regulations with an element of flexibility, especially as regards reduced speed limits.

I can't see why they don't just run a non-stop service.

I would tend to take everything that man says with copious quantities of salt.

Terrontress

KC61 wrote: »

I would tend to take everything that man says with copious quantities of salt.

Well he certainly is a passionate man and he backs up his assertions with proof. I have seen videos he has made where he trails the aircoach and sits behind it at a fixed distance and proves by his own speedo that the aircoach is exceeding the speed limit for buses.

To be honest, people always call for Michael O'Leary to be appointed to various offices. President, Taoiseach and the head of numerous state agencies.

I'd have Dr. Grimes as head of CIÉ.

KC61

Terrontress wrote: »

Well he certainly is a passionate man and he backs up his assertions with proof. I have seen videos he has made where he trails the aircoach and sits behind it at a fixed distance and proves by his own speedo that the aircoach is exceeding the speed limit for buses.

To be honest, people always call for Michael O'Leary to be appointed to various offices. President, Taoiseach and the head of numerous state agencies.

I'd have Dr. Grimes as head of CIÉ.

This is a man who was disqualified by the High Court from being a liqiuidator for seven years and his ability to be an auditor or director limited?

http://www.courts.ie/__80256F2B00356A6B.nsf/0/5B689B0F7C6BA8ED80256CD700223066?Open

Get real!

Cookie_Monster

Terrontress wrote: »

Well he certainly is a passionate man and he backs up his assertions with proof. I have seen videos he has made where he trails the aircoach and sits behind it at a fixed distance and proves by his own speedo that the aircoach is exceeding the speed limit for buses.

To be honest, people always call for Michael O'Leary to be appointed to various offices. President, Taoiseach and the head of numerous state agencies.

I'd have Dr. Grimes as head of CIÉ.

does he take into account that his own speedo will overread to a certain extent.

but I have followed enough trucks and coaches to believe that the limiters either don't work or are not active most of the time. BE buses especially seem to often be well above 100

dowlingm

Terrontress wrote: »

Dr. Michael Grimes of Kells Transport was saying that the Aircoach buses regularly treat the regulations with an element of flexibility, especially as regards reduced speed limits.

There's a name from the past! (Probably best left there, too)

KC61

dowlingm wrote: »

There's a name from the past! (Probably best left there, too)

Amen.

Terrontress

I don't wish this to become a thread about Dr. Michael Grimes, someone who I have never met, but I think nobody could deny the following about the man:

Passionate about Irish bus travel.
Strong technical and operational knowledge about Irish bus travel.
Willing to invest in Irish bus travel.

Could everyone here say the same about the Bus Eireann board?

The fact that MG has provoked a response here proves that there are many who know of him.

Post a name of a director of BE what response would I get?

Terrontress

By the way, I don't see being disbarred from being a comapny director eight years ago over a dispute with Readymix as being such a bad thing.

Please, please try and convice me that Doctor Grimes is a less suitable director of CIE or Bus Eireann than the current crop.

Mods, feel free to split this from the current thread if necessary.

dowlingm

I think a debate about the merits of a gentleman like MG is the last thing this forum needs. Split the posts into a separate thread, then lock it, then surround it in lead and kryptonite.

Terrontress

OK, well there is something I obviously don't know about the guy.

My only knowledge of him is through his online presence.

As I have said before; he's passionate, has a good knowledge and is hardworking. And a lot of people are aware of him, so he has a presence and influence.

Ideal qualities in my mind.

But I presume you guys know something I don't. So I'll stop mentioning him.

shoegirl

BazNuge wrote: »

Oh, i had a lovely gentleman, seemed like your stereotypical Italian pensioner, who was bellowing "you will regret this" at the inspectors. When I took my seat, which he was in in, he told me "congratulations for buying a seat" before storming off to the dining cart.

In fairness it isn't Irish Rail's fault if some people are just too stupid to read the names over the seats. I've seen so many dumb folk stare stupidly at them for about 10 minutes before deciding to just sit down.

Then again it probably would be simpler if the reserved carriage was marked in some way to discourage those who had not booked seats to get onto it - or just good old fashioned sheets of paper with "reserved" might get the message through to some of the more intellectually challenged commuters!

Stark

Anytime I've been on it, they've had ticket inspectors directing people to the reserved/unreserved carriages. I also got on a train once where they put reserved notices on the seats and someone still took our seats.

foggy_lad

shoegirl wrote: »

Then again it probably would be simpler if the reserved carriage was marked in some way to discourage those who had not booked seats to get onto it - or just good old fashioned sheets of paper with "reserved" might get the message through to some of the more intellectually challenged commuters!

it is not a reserved carriage though just a normal carriage in which some seats may have reservations, I have often went straight to the reserved carriages and they end up being almost empty while other carriages are packed because people assume incorrectly the whole carriage is reserved.

trellheim

This has changed somewhat recently, there are now much larger notices left on the seats on the 22ks with a much more ominous warning.