CFL or LED replacement?

D.Craftsman

Hi Folks, Can anyone tell me which I should replace my halogen 50w GU10 bulbs with? CFL or LED? I know it is possible to use both in the light fitting we have.Which is the most cost effective?Which uses less power?I know I should be using a lower watt,35 or even 20 as there are quite a few lights in each ceiling. All advice welcome.

M cebee

leds use least power-you'll be losing some lumens

there's been a gazillion questions on this if you search

D.Craftsman

Thanks for that.I have searched and asked too.There seems to be two different opinions.I have not spoken to anyone who has changed over.I have read that the cfl is best.

HighlyCooL

im an led man my self, i like the instant start up off them no delay in reaching operating temp like CFLs. As for loss of lumens, i find there is a greater out put from them. one thing tho if you do get LED lamps make sure you get the right color(temperature) of the light. i bought a lot of cool white leds(5500K) they gave a very cold light off them, it worked out ok as they suited out side. go for 3200k or warm white, this is as close to the color of light given out by the incandescent lamps. a 3 watt with about 60leds is about the same as a 50watt incandescent lamp

M cebee

i've wired a few houses with all 3w led-they worked out fine

i'd be using more lighting 'points' than i used to on halogen though

and then there's the issue of light output 'decay' with cheap leds


fast 'warm-up' and 'lamp life' unaffected by 'short on-time'/frequent switching are advantages with led lighting

HighlyCooL

M cebee wrote: »

i've wired a few houses with all 3w led-they worked out fine

i'd be using more lighting 'points' than i used to on halogen though

and then there's the issue of light output 'decay' with cheap leds

what kind of spread are you getting form your lamps, 110 or 35degrees.

as for cheap lights, bought 100 eclipse 60led warm white lamps, about 15 of them burned out with in a few hours and about another 25 in the next week. got them replaced as it turned out it was a bad batch but i think they were just cheap was getting them for about 5.50 a piece the ecopal ones i had were great there is about 10 of them still on the go here and the other 20 are in a friends house still going strong and there nearly a year and a half old now. but they were about 11+vat! i guess you get what you pay for, pity my wholesaler couldnt get me the warm white ecopal ones and a price i wanted!

LeBash

I've had about 200 samples of LEDs and i just dont like them. They have a horrible light output that seems to fatigue my eyes .

I've heard tons of people say how good certain brands are but until the top manufacturers (GE, Osram, Philips and Sylvania) start pushing them out I imagine there is a problem as they are not going to miss out on that market (I just heard Philips now have a 9W LED they claim is same as a 50 W MR16).

Currently I'm using 35W IRC MR16's. They give the light output of a 50W, have twice the life of the standard MR16 and I dont feel as though saving energy is stealling light from me.

Of course like everything else, it is personal choice and LED or CFL might suit some people. The only advice I give anyone is to buy just 1 and try it and don't kit the whole house out at once.

M cebee

no idea on light spread afraid i don't take too much notice

fitted some eclipse -they were a blue box i think:pac:

and then there was some in a red box-what were they again?luminux:pac:

and then they gave me a batch of new brighter lights just as the job was finishing

LeBash

One other thing about LED's.

If you are installing alot of them (maybe not so relivent in a house) check out the power factor. Some of these lamps have a PF of below 0.4 and most of them are below 0.5. This could cause a problem in a hotel or large bar. It could be worth looking at a PFC bank to correct it.

M cebee

LeBash wrote: »

One other thing about LED's.

If you are installing alot of them (maybe not so relivent in a house) check out the power factor. Some of these lamps have a PF of below 0.4 and most of them are below 0.5. This could cause a problem in a hotel or large bar. It could be worth looking at a PFC bank to correct it.

really 0.5 never knew that

ah well skip the pfc bank and thank the esb for the free juice

LeBash

M cebee wrote: »

really 0.5 never knew that

ah well skip the pfc bank and thank the esb for the free juice

Are they not charging "WATTLESS" anymore? I think most modern buildings are ok as far as the the capacity goes. Older buildings might not be so lucky and .5 is a shocking figure :eek:

ocy

We rewired our house and put in GU10 fittings, in early 2009 we decided to use CFLs, but since then we have had over a 50% failure rate (constant flickering) with these, this included trying 3 different brands, since then we have changed to LED and are currently using a the brand "greenlamp" which we got as replacements in Total Lighting, these seem to be working fine so far. I prefer them due to the instant light and the light is less white/ blue.

M cebee

LeBash wrote: »

Are they not charging "WATTLESS" anymore? I think most modern buildings are ok as far as the the capacity goes. Older buildings might not be so lucky and .5 is a shocking figure :eek:

ya you're right- they will on the larger commercial and industrial

Dardania

These are the best LEDs I've used so far:

http://www.megamanuk.com/megaman-products/lamps/sku.php?series_id=16&sub_series_id=33&scroll_order=1

heinbloed

Thanks for the link Dardania! The lumen output (the brightness of the light ) is that the " Cd 600 " in the link? The linked 7 Watt LED has 600 Lumen output?

Dardania

Hi heinblod - no worries! It's rare to find LED manufacturers disclosing (hell - even measuring in the first place_ all of the tech details such as light colour, rendering index, lumen output & candelas incident)...which is why I design alot with megamans. It's unfortunate because people know that LEDs can be low energy light, but they just end up buying tat that never performs (as a few posters here have noted) and so are turned away completely from LED

I've checked in Dialux the photometric file they provide for the warm white 7W 35 degree angle LED - it has a lumen output (that is, the amount of light it emits) of 270lm - the 600candelas refers to the brightness this fitting can cause on a surface. The candelas are proportional to the spread angle being 35 degress...

It doens't compare too badly to a GE 50W GU10 halogen: http://www.gelighting.com/eu/resources/literature_library/catalogs/lamp_catalog/downloads/Halogen_Lamps.pdf

Found the GE photometric data -the 50W appears to have a lumen output of 1000lm - so while they will both incite 600 candelas on their 35 degree "spot", the halogen has a fair bit more spill light. COuld be useful if you wanted a vary moody dark/light effect

tommyh1977

LeBash wrote: »

I've had about 200 samples of LEDs and i just dont like them. They have a horrible light output that seems to fatigue my eyes .

I've heard tons of people say how good certain brands are but until the top manufacturers (GE, Osram, Philips and Sylvania) start pushing them out I imagine there is a problem as they are not going to miss out on that market (I just heard Philips now have a 9W LED they claim is same as a 50 W MR16).

Currently I'm using 35W IRC MR16's. They give the light output of a 50W, have twice the life of the standard MR16 and I dont feel as though saving energy is stealling light from me.

Of course like everything else, it is personal choice and LED or CFL might suit some people. The only advice I give anyone is to buy just 1 and try it and don't kit the whole house out at once.

I agree with the light ourput, just don't like it. Also as you say there must be some reason why all the top manufacturers are not making LED yet, and i bet when they do it will blow all the chinese stuff out of the water.

Dardania

tommyh1977 wrote: »

I agree with the light ourput, just don't like it. Also as you say there must be some reason why all the top manufacturers are not making LED yet, and i bet when they do it will blow all the chinese stuff out of the water.

It comes down to the light colour / temperature, and the colour rendering index (how faithfully the fitting recreates colours it lights)

They're getting there btw:

http://www.gelighting.com/eu/led/retrofit.html

http://www.prismaecat.lighting.philips.com/ecat/Light/ApplicationRouter.aspx?fh_location=//prof/en_GB/categories<{fepplg}/countries>{en_GB}/status>{act}/categories<{c_0002fepplg_75_ep01}/categories<{c_0002fepplg_2310_ep01lssl}/categories<{c_0032fepplg_2420_ep01lret}&amp;fh_reftheme=promo_75141014,seeall,//prof/en_GB/categories<{fepplg}/countries>{en_GB}/status>{act}/categories<{c_0002fepplg_75_ep01}/categories<{c_0002fepplg_2310_ep01lssl}&amp;fh_refview=summary&amp;left_nav=gb_en&amp;

Not fully right yet (cooling is the major issue) but advancing

Bruthal

M cebee wrote: »

really 0.5 never knew that

ah well skip the pfc bank and thank the esb for the free juice

Well it would`t be free in a commercial premises but the overall effect of the low wattage might not be very high anyway. A 3 watt led light at PF 0.5 would draw 0.026 amps where as at unity PF it would be 0.013
Might be noticeable with a few thousand of them in though.

I did`t realise they would have that bad a PF myself either.

Dardania

I think they're capitative rather than inductive... So good for your power factor ;-)

Bruthal

Dardania wrote: »

I think they're capitative rather than inductive... So good for your power factor ;-)

Yes thats probably the case alright. Even better then.

heinbloed

Quote from Dardania :

Hi heinblod - no worries! It's rare to find LED manufacturers disclosing (hell - even measuring in the first place_ all of the tech details such as light colour, rendering index, lumen output & candelas incident)...which is why I design alot with megamans. It's unfortunate because people know that LEDs can be low energy light, but they just end up buying tat that never performs (as a few posters here have noted) and so are turned away completely from LED

I've checked in Dialux the photometric file they provide for the warm white 7W 35 degree angle LED - it has a lumen output (that is, the amount of light it emits) of 270lm - the 600candelas refers to the brightness this fitting can cause on a surface. The candelas are proportional to the spread angle being 35 degress...

It doens't compare too badly to a GE 50W GU10 halogen: http://www.gelighting.com/eu/resourc...ogen_Lamps.pdf

Found the GE photometric data -the 50W appears to have a lumen output of 1000lm - so while they will both incite 600 candelas on their 35 degree "spot", the halogen has a fair bit more spill light. COuld be useful if you wanted a vary moody dark/light effect

Thanks, Dardania!

ukelely

i have installed hundreds of the green lamp led's. very reliable . the only down side to led's however is that they aren't dimmable yet. for this reason i myself have not totally changed to led. where i haven't i have used 35w irc lamps which give 50w . total lighting now do a 12v led range for anyone who has lv spots in there house.