Best players to never be capped by their country?

Seaneh

Ok, so I was just doing a little research on a few players and I remembered that Sebastiano Rossi NEVER got a call up for Italy.

Baring in mind that Rossi was the keeper for Milan's 58 game unbeaten run in the mid 90's (the original Invincibles).

He holds the Serie A record for the longest time without conceding a a goal at 929.

At Milan he won two scudetti, 2 european super cups, 1 Champions League, an Intercontinental Cup and three Italian Super Cups.
He is Generally considered to be one of, if not, the best Keeper to have played for Milan.

And not even a single call up, never mind a cap.

Who else has a record like that and never played for their country?

Mitch Connor

Steve Bruce never played for England, just a B international appearance.

tommyhaas

Mikel Arteta never played for Spain, has at youth level,just not at senior level

Seaneh

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Steve Bruce never played for England, just a B international appearance.

this surprises me.

tommyhaas wrote: »

Mikel Arteta never played for Spain, has at youth level,just not at senior level

This, not so much.

tommyhaas

Seaneh wrote: »

This, not so much.

I disagree, I rate Arteta highly and I think he could do well at a bigger club. I heard Arsenal were interested recently. IMO, the reason he hasent been capped is because of who he plays for, not saying he deserves a starting place in the Spanish team, but certainly in the squad

Iron Hide

Carlo Cudicini, only a couple of u-18 and u21 caps to his name

Adamcp898

tommyhaas wrote: »

I disagree, I rate Arteta highly and I think he could do well at a bigger club. I heard Arsenal were interested recently. IMO, the reason he hasent been capped is because of who he plays for, not saying he deserves a starting place in the Spanish team, but certainly in the squad

The lads just unlucky he was born in a golden era of Spanish midfielders, quality player but who exactly is he better than in their team at he same time. A little like the Fabregas argument in that respect

Seaneh

tommyhaas wrote: »

I disagree, I rate Arteta highly and I think he could do well at a bigger club. I heard Arsenal were interested recently. IMO, the reason he hasent been capped is because of who he plays for, not saying he deserves a starting place in the Spanish team, but certainly in the squad

Arteta isn't good enough to be in the current Spain team.
Look at their midfeild and their back ups and tell me you'd pick him ahead of any of them?

Gillington

Wow thats a head scratcher,I cant think of any.3 months ago it wouuld have been Victor Valdes but then he played that friendly,so Arteta for me.Cant imagine there are many out there who havent a cap,even Michael Ricketts has one!

tommyhaas

Adamcp898 wrote: »

The lads just unlucky he was born in a golden era of Spanish midfielders, quality player but who exactly is he better than in their team at he same time. A little like the Fabregas argument in that respect

Yea I agree he is unlucky in that sense, but would have thought he could have picked up a few caps over the years with injuries and that. In terms of the current Spanish squad, he could replace Javi Martinez. However, Martinez is younger, has plenty of potential, probably be spains future after Xavi etc, so suppose equally worthy of a place

Seaneh wrote: »

Arteta isn't good enough to be in the current Spain team.
Look at their midfeild and their back ups and tell me you'd pick him ahead of any of them?

As I said above, suprised hasent picked up a few caps over the years, with others injured etc

Adamcp898

tommyhaas wrote: »

Yea I agree he is unlucky in that sense, but would have thought he could have picked up a few caps over the years with injuries and that. In terms of the current Spanish squad, he could replace Javi Martinez. However, Martinez is younger, has plenty of potential, probably be spains future after Xavi etc, so suppose equally worthy of a place

Even though Arteta started out as a holding midfielder he's recognised now more as a right midfielder since Moyes started playing him there after a while at Everton.

Javi Martinez on the other hand is a central midfielder so don't see them as interchangable.

tommyhaas

Red Storm wrote: »

Carlo Cudicini, only a couple of u-18 and u21 caps to his name

In fairness if your happy enough to sit on the bench at Chelsea for what, 5 years? your unlikly to get picked for the national team

Manuel Almenuia anyone.....:rolleyes:

pickarooney

Rossi was extremely unlucky that there so many excellent goalkeepers in Italy at the time - post Zenga there were Pagliuca and Peruzzi who were phenomenal stoppers, then Toldo and Buffon who were even better. It's probably unjust that Marchegiani was capped ahead of him though.

Edit: I can't think of a single payer who would fit this criteria!

AnCapaillMor

In all fairness if you had Maldini, Baresi and Costacurta in front of you, you'd look look like and awesome keeper too.

MickShamrock

Ronnie O'Brien. :pac:

jaykay74

Not a easy one to find. Most decent players get some chance. Dalian Atkinson for villa was decent for a few seasons around the start of the PL and never got a chance.

ctrl-alt-delete

Lee Trundle! :pac:

But on a serious note

Bryan Robson

Suppose there was only ever going to be room for one of them!

syngindub

Me

Cypher_sounds

Jamie O Hara

Nacho Novo seems a decent player when he plays against Celtic, as with Artea pity for his International career that he comes from Spain

Xavi6

Jordan Berbatov

More importantly, do any of these have Irish granny or grandads? :pac:

iregk

The Arteta argument gets trotted out now and again. His timing is unfortunate. Unfortunate in that he came along when Spain had a golden generation on the go. He is no where near good enough to make it in that side but having said that would probably get into most international teams.

As for Steve Bruce please. United fans have been throwing that one around for years. A vastly over rated player made to look good by the big man beside him. Never got a cap and rightly so in my opinion, he simply wasn't good enough.

Cudicini is a big one for me. Ok not first choice given Buffon is there but friendlies and such there was surely a call for him.

pickarooney

Cudicini sits on the bench in a foreign league. How on earth is an Italian manager supposed to justify selecting him?

EI111

Joseph Lapira never got a competitive cap.

fillmore jive

Carlos Cuellar another Spanish player never capped.

tommyhaas

I dont think DiCanio ever got a cap for Italy either

tommyhaas

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Even though Arteta started out as a holding midfielder he's recognised now more as a right midfielder since Moyes started playing him there after a while at Everton.

Javi Martinez on the other hand is a central midfielder so don't see them as interchangable.

Im not necessarily saying he should have been in the WC squad, just that im suprised he didnt pick up a few caps along the waay. I dont know has he ever been in a Spanish squad?

keane2097

iregk wrote: »

As for Steve Bruce please. United fans have been throwing that one around for years. A vastly over rated player made to look good by the big man beside him. Never got a cap and rightly so in my opinion, he simply wasn't good enough.

+1

Gary Pallister seems to be the forgotten man around these parts.

Bruce would hardly lace his boots.

hitman79

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Even though Arteta started out as a holding midfielder he's recognised now more as a right midfielder since Moyes started playing him there after a while at Everton.

Javi Martinez on the other hand is a central midfielder so don't see them as interchangable.

Think you have that wrong about Arteta. He started out on the right and even played on the left but the last 2 years he has only played in the middle for Everton and was in the form of his life before his long term injury. If he can start the season as well as he finished last season i reckon he could make the Spain squad but not likely to start which is a shame for the lad.

Raskolnikov

For almost any other national side in the world, Arteta would have gotten a cap by now.

tommyhaas wrote: »

I dont think DiCanio ever got a cap for Italy either

Di Canio is probably a valid answer, people forget that he has a couple of Serie A winners medal's. He probably wasn't good enough to feature regularly, but he was worth a few caps.

Denis Mortimer captained Villa to the league in 1981 and the European Cup in 1982. Never won an England cap.

Ruel Fox was very handy for a few years while at Norwich/Newcastle but never won more than a B cap.

Amauri has had the choice of playing for Italy or Brazil, but hasn't been capped by either. At 30, he probably won't get one ever.

Benoit Cheyrou (brother of the infamous Bruno) has been a very consistant player in Ligue 1, recently won league with Marseille. Very useful player who is worthy of at least one cap.

Francisco Yeste singled-handedly saved Bilbao from relegation for a few season. Has an great goal scoring record for a midfielder in La Liga.

There are probably more.

parker kent

iregk wrote: »

The Arteta argument gets trotted out now and again. His timing is unfortunate. Unfortunate in that he came along when Spain had a golden generation on the go. He is no where near good enough to make it in that side but having said that would probably get into most international teams.

As for Steve Bruce please. United fans have been throwing that one around for years. A vastly over rated player made to look good by the big man beside him. Never got a cap and rightly so in my opinion, he simply wasn't good enough.

Cudicini is a big one for me. Ok not first choice given Buffon is there but friendlies and such there was surely a call for him.

+1 Bruce was shown to be clumsy and one dimensional in Europe. A great battler, but lacked the class of top class centre backs. Baffling to see other United fans picking him in all-time Premier League teams. Nowhere near Vidic, Stam, Rio, Johnsen or Pallister.

Jimmy Bullard deserved to have had a go by now for England. Fair enough he is hardly Xavi, but England do not have a player like him in their midfield. Worth a go I think.

Another worth a mention is Ken Barnes, Denis Law described him as the best uncapped English player. Here's a good article on him.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/ken-barnes-footballer-manager-and-scout-whose-service-to-manchester-city-stretched-across-six-decades-2028722.html

The debate about who is the finest uncapped English footballer is a futile one yet it remains irresistible to observers of the game who combine a whimsical turn of mind with a sense of injustice.

Fans of the outstanding Manchester City side of the middle-to-late 1950s, when they reached consecutive FA Cup finals but were overshadowed by their sparkling neighbours, the Busby Babes, are likely to look no further than Ken Barnes. An imaginative, inventive, boldly adventurous wing-half, the bandy-legged Barnes represented the heart and the mind of an attractive side of which the imposing German goalkeeper Bert Trautmann, power-house half-back Roy Paul, deep-thinking attacker Don Revie and skilful inside-forward Bobby Johnstone were the acknowledged stars.

Consumed with passion for football in general and City in particular, he returned as a scout, working under 17 managers over a 30-year span, during which he spotted millions of pounds' worth of talent for the frequently cash-strapped club. Renowned for his vehement opposition to modern coaching methods, which he blamed for stifling flair and freedom of expression, Barnes was a stridently honest, often provocative personality who peppered his sentences with expletives and was never loth to excoriate those in high office.

Directors, most of whom he perceived to be ignorant about the game, were a particular target, and occasionally he was heard to urge City chairman Peter Swales to "**** off, you know nothing about football." Players loved him, though, and his office became a revered inner sanctum, a smoke-filled den to which they could retreat and talk to their hearts' content about their communal obsession.

As for Barnes' lack of international recognition, his forthright personality might have had more to do with that than any lack of ability. He didn't get on with Walter Winterbottom, the donnish England manager during his 1950s prime, and he was vitriolic in his scorn for the committee which picked the national team. As it was, he veered close to selection, making three appearances for an FA XI against Forces sides, being a reserve for the Football League in 1957 and actually being called up for another League encounter, only to miss the game with a broken toe.

The son of a railway worker, Barnes was born in Small Heath, almost in the shadow of St Andrew's, the headquarters of Birmingham City. He played constantly in the surrounding streets and revealed exceptional natural ability, joining Moor Green, the Midlands' leading amateur club, at 15. Junior appearances with Birmingham and Bolton followed, but after working for the Post Office, assembling switchboard components for less than £1 a week, then completing his national service as a storeman at RAF Stafford, he surprised friends and family by signing for Stafford Rangers.

Barnes flourished for his non-League employers, and after being courted by a posse of leading clubs, he joined Manchester City as a 21-year-old in a £900 deal in May 1950. At Maine Road, however, he faced fierce competition and played in only one league game in his first four seasons. He did well on that outing, in January 1952, but he was immediately dropped and asked for a move, spending several months on the transfer list.

Being held back behind rivals of inferior ability proved monumentally frustrating for the voluble, sociable Barnes, who never gelled with the manager Les McDowall, a remote figure aloof from the banter which the wing-half relished. The turning point came when inside-forward Johnny Williamson, playing as centre-forward for the reserves, drifted into a deep-lying role, taking on creative duties alongside Barnes and dragging the opposing defenders out of position.

This was a ploy soon to be used successfully by the superlative Hungary side, and in August 1954 McDowall had City's first team trying it, with Don Revie as the withdrawn spearhead. However, the system flopped until Revie told the manager, with some asperity, that Barnes was needed to make it work. The Midlander was promoted, with gratifying results, and he remained as arguably the key component of the side for seven years.

At last, given the responsibility his talent merited, the 25-year-old Barnes was revealed in his full glory. He wasn't much of a tackler; he was ineffective in the air; he used his left foot for little more than standing on and defending was not his forte; but in every other respect he was a footballing thoroughbred. His prime instinct was to get the ball down and pass it, which he did with vision, perception and consistent accuracy. The timing of his missives, often squeezed through gaps in opposing rearguards which barely existed, was exquisite, making him a dream to play alongside. Barnes wasn't pacy but he could run forever, and such was his enthusiasm for swashbuckling attack that sometimes he would gallop forward even when the other side had possession; then, when City won the ball back, he would be free and in space to make mayhem with his destructive skills.

Before long it became apparent that when Barnes played well City played well, which they did throughout most of 1954-55, when they finished seventh and reached the FA Cup final. Barnes was irrepressible, never more so than in the third-round defeat of Derby County when he hit his first goal for the club, carrying the ball from one penalty box to the other before scoring with a clever shot. At Wembley, City lost 3-1 to Newcastle, conceding a goal in the first minute and losing full-back Jimmy Meadows to injury, a crippling blow in the days before substitutes.

They bounced back even stronger in 1955-56, even nursing turn-of-the-year ambitions to become the first team in the 20th century to win the League and FA Cup double. In the event, they finished a creditable fourth in the table, well adrift of champions United, but triumphed in the Cup, then far more prestigious than it is today, beating Birmingham City 3-1 at Wembley.

Barnes was prominent, uncharacteristically devoting the first period to subduing the dangerous Peter Murphy but then surging forward to launch a series of devastating raids which carried the day. It was a match which entered folklore for the exploits of goalkeeper Trautmann, the former German paratrooper who played the last 17 minutes with a broken neck.

Everyone connected with Manchester City expected it to be a platform for sustained achievement. Instead it proved a pinnacle, and there began a slide into mediocrity – the result of top players moving on and not being adequately replaced – which was not mirrored by Barnes' continued excellence.

Made captain after the departure of Roy Paul in 1957, he remained a dynamic presence, driving or cajoling the men around him depending on their characters, all the time ruing the creeping decline. Still, there were highlights, such as his hat-trick of smoothly stroked penalties against Everton in December 1957 and, best of all, the productive link he forged with the coruscating, brilliant inside-forward Denis Law, signed from Huddersfield Town in March 1960. "Beaky" Barnes, so dubbed for his aquiline profile, took the young Scot under his wing, teaching him to drive and helping him to settle into big-city life.

In May 1961, with nearly 300 senior games behind him, Barnes moved to Wrexham as player-manager and led them to promotion from the Fourth Division at his first attempt. But they were relegated two years later, and his lack of diplomacy with directors made dismissal virtually inevitable; the sack arrived in February 1965.

That experience convinced him that he wasn't cut out for League management and he rejected the overtures of Rochdale to become a sales representative for a steel company. The siren call of football proved irresistible, though, and in 1965 he became player-manager of non-League Witton Albion while selling insurance by day. He then took the reins of Bangor City before returning to Maine Road in 1970.

This time he had been persuaded by the City manager Joe Mercer to look after the club's reserves, which led to a further three decades of service to the cause, much of it as chief scout. During that roller-coaster period, in which City's fortunes lurched repeatedly between joy and despair, Barnes was irrepressible. His enthusiasm, wisdom, irreverent humour and spiky refusal to bow the knee to self-important officialdom proved an inspiration, no matter how turbulent the times.

He was ousted twice, temporarily by Peter Reid in 1992 and finally by Joe Royle in 2000, but remains one of the most influential figures in the club's history. Barnes, whose son Peter was a mercurially brilliant winger, starring for City and winning 22 England caps, cooperated with broadcaster Jimmy Wagg in writing his life story in 2005.

On the cover of This Simple Game was the warning that it contained explicit language. For all that, it was a warm, thought-provoking memoir in which the home truths directed at the deluded men who complicate his beloved football were far more compelling than the sprinkle of profanities.

Kenneth Herbert Barnes, footballer: born Birmingham 16 March 1929; married twice (three sons, one daughter); died 13 July 2010.

dundalkbhoy

barry kehoe (r.i.p) was a class player who defeated cancer to play league football again. he deserved a cap before he fell ill.

The Recliner

Has Chris Kirkland been capped by England?

Wolfe Tone

Steve Bruce
First person I thought of too.

20 Times 20 Times

dundalkbhoy wrote: »

barry kehoe (r.i.p) was a class player who defeated cancer to play league football again. he deserved a cap before he fell ill.

One of my favourite players of all time :-) , seriously this lad signed for united and then got ill :-(

Pauleta

Owen Heary

applehunter

Dave Barry was derserving of a chance to play for his country.

greendom

pickarooney wrote: »

Cudicini sits on the bench in a foreign league. How on earth is an Italian manager supposed to justify selecting him?

Not now perhaps, but at the height of his career for Chelsea he was brilliant.

TonyD79

Steve Bruce is a United Legend, fair enough speed wasnt his best assest but considering the likes of Upson get English caps these days its a crime he never got one. And to say Pallister carried him is total crap..Bruce got done by speedy players like Fowler and Romario while Vidic as been done by Torres and Bellamy most recently. The fact these players were super fast/ world class seems to have been glaringly missed! Saying Bruce wouldnt have coped in the modern game is BS. Paul Mcgrath would find it though going with the amount of games and speed of the league in fact you would most certainly would only see him play the odd game like King does for Spurs.

rossie1977

i thought bruce was a decent player, then again i ain't a utd fan so didn't look into too much. but when you think he wasn't capped at the time when muppets like geoff thomas and carlton palmer were first names on the teamsheet, he surely was no worse than them

Mr.Nice Guy

How about Dario Hübner? I remember being a fan of him in Serie A back in the old Channel 4 days. Used to always buy him in FIFA as well. I realise his age was against him but he was top scorer in Serie A and as far as I can tell was never capped.

Third_Echelon

tommyhaas wrote: »

I disagree, I rate Arteta highly and I think he could do well at a bigger club. I heard Arsenal were interested recently. IMO, the reason he hasent been capped is because of who he plays for, not saying he deserves a starting place in the Spanish team, but certainly in the squad

No matter who you play for, if you are the best player for the team you get picked. The were a few players in Spanish squad who play for Athletic Bilbao. They're not exactly world beaters, but they are a solid team just like Everton are. If Arteta went to Arsenal or the like, would he play every week compared to staying at Everton where he is a dead cert to start? You need to play first team football to be picked for international games (unless you are irish or course )

The reason that Arteta hasn't been capped as others have said is because of the wealth of talent in midfield that Spain possess...

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Even though Arteta started out as a holding midfielder he's recognised now more as a right midfielder since Moyes started playing him there after a while at Everton.

Javi Martinez on the other hand is a central midfielder so don't see them as interchangable.

He's a central midfield player and that's his best position. He did start out on the right for everton as there were no other options out there at the time. He was wasted on the wing with the range and vision he possesses... He is perfect for central midfield..

eagle eye

Laurent Charvet stands out to me as a great player never capped by his country. I'd say there is a lot of French, Distin hasn't played for France either.

Ush1

Hard to think of players who got 0 caps but I think Ivan De La Pena and Tamudo should have gotten more. De La Pena is one of the best passers I've ever seen.

Also, Frey maybe should have got more caps for France but I personally thought Coupet was a great keeper.

Pinturicchio

greendom wrote: »

Not now perhaps, but at the height of his career for Chelsea he was brilliant.

He was called into the squad back then but was behind Buffon and Toldo.

Mr Alan

first player that popped into my head? estie

bonerm

Regarding Sebastiano Rossi I don't think he's really deserves too much credit for those record stats. He was behind what could arguably be considered the best defence in the history of the game (especially under Sacchi). There's even stories of Sacchi holding 20min Attack v Defence training sessions where it was 11 v 5 and defence able to keep the score to 0-0. Basically under Sacchi and Capello this defence was on another planet.

pickarooney

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

How about Dario Hübner? I remember being a fan of him in Serie A back in the old Channel 4 days. Used to always buy him in FIFA as well. I realise his age was against him but he was top scorer in Serie A and as far as I can tell was never capped.

Top scorer in Serie C, Serie B and Serie A in successive seasons - the man could surely adapt! I remember always forgetting that he was Italian (does that make sense?)

Mr Alan wrote: »

first player that popped into my head? estie

Who's estie?

Xavi6

eagle eye wrote: »

Laurent Charvet stands out to me as a great player never capped by his country.

You have to be joking. One of the worst full backs to play for City in my lifetime, and we've had plenty of them.

tommyhaas

Dont think Sylvain Distin has any caps

Degag

iregk wrote: »

The Arteta argument gets trotted out now and again. His timing is unfortunate. Unfortunate in that he came along when Spain had a golden generation on the go. He is no where near good enough to make it in that side but having said that would probably get into most international teams.

As for Steve Bruce please. United fans have been throwing that one around for years. A vastly over rated player made to look good by the big man beside him. Never got a cap and rightly so in my opinion, he simply wasn't good enough.

Cudicini is a big one for me. Ok not first choice given Buffon is there but friendlies and such there was surely a call for him.

Are you serious or are you just anti-united? Sebastiano Rossi didn't get a call up because of the defense infront of him, yet Bruce didn't get a call up because Schmeichel was behind him, Irony? (i know you didn't allude to this, it's more of a comment on the overall thread)

However what i don't understand is how you accept that Bruce didn't get a chance but wonder how Cudicini didn't even though he sat on the bench collecting cheque after cheque every year for a long time.