Article: New Tolls on National Roads?

Tech3

Wow that article is baffling. This current sad lot running our country cant steep any lower than this.

The only extra tolls just about bearable are:

• M7 at Nenagh
• M18 south of Rathmorrissey
• M9 (possibly 2)
• M11
• N25 Ballincollig

And even at the above I would be disgusted. The M4/M6 and the M8 have been tolled enough. S2 bypasses being tolled is just bs. Mentioning the N20 as a possible toll is just below the belt, where will they fit the toll plaza maybe upgrade the road first would be a good idea.

EurasiaEndtoEnd

Furet wrote: »

Youghal Bypasses? Are they for real? And the Jack Lynch Tunnel? The EU threw that out in the 90s. Such unmitigated shight.

When I left Ireland in 1985 it was an era of huge budget deficits and national debt and despondency about the future. My first trips abroad had been to West Germany where I worked 3 summers at a fruit canning factory.Coming from Cork city, where I cycled everywhere, it was a revelation to see roads without potholes, neat verges and a sense of neatness. People swept in front of their houses and shops in the mornings and I don't think I saw anyone throw litter. Japan,where I live now, has its faults and problems but there is a similar Germanic sense of neatness and lack of tolerance for slapdash, second-rate and an it'll-do approach. Things work and pride is taken in them working.
I love to drive and have been an avid follower of these infrastructure and commuting threads since I found them a few years ago. The Celtic Tiger gave me hope and a sense of pride that Ireland was finally graduating to the top of the class as a small, rich, liberal Western European country. I could see that the housing bubble would end in misery and was not at all surprised when it burst. But one legacy of the Tiger is the new infrastructure Ireland has been able to afford. I took a long road trip on the shiny new motorway network this May when I was home for holidays.
I know the economy is bad and I know times are dire again but it depresses me to see the old 1980s-style panicky, stop-gap attitudes coming back.
Here we are in 2010 without the simplest, LOW-tech solutions to issues that have been solved elsewhere 20, 30 or 40 years ago.
The M-way network built without MSAs.
The bus service in a small city like Cork (I can't speak for Dublin) is still a shambles. If people are going to pay cash bring conductors. Or else bring in strip-tickets for people to pre-pay. It is so simple. Not even electronic !!
But this proposal to toll the N25 or N22 and other bypasses !!! Without flyovers of Sarsfield-Bandon Rds? It will just drive people into towns and cities which will not cope with the traffic.
Tolls should be taken OFF roads which are now underused like the Waterford N25.
Politics in Ireland has never been ideological or grounded in any philosophy. It is all for-the-moment, without rationale, without thought of consequence, without logic, without rigour, without COMMON sense. The moneys raised from drivers are already enough. Go after somebody else ... like a 60% tax band for the well-heeled.

dowlingm

Lads, you had your chance when Iceland threw their kleptocrats out to take to the streets and do likewise. Not a single govt minister has lost their job for performance, the fella in charge of banking at the time of the guarantee is now SG at Finance. They will tax this country to death to "save" the banks and once they are finally ousted (and given the alternatives even that isn't guaranteed) they will flee to Brussels or some other sinecure.

Ireland is in more danger now than it was during the Arms Trial -the rest of the world is watching amazed that Cowen and Co. are continuing their sleepwalk over the cliff and that the people are letting it happen.

Pete_Cavan

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The M50 is the most profitable road in the country and accounts for the vast majority of income from tolls every year (€96.5 million in 2009!). But with only one toll there must be a huge number of vehicles that use it every day but do not pay the toll. Why not introduce a second barrier free toll. Relax before you lose it and just hear me out. The second toll could be at junction 9 (with the N7). With the system they have in place (most of it done by computer) surely it would be too difficult to set it that you only get charged for one toll if you pass through both within say half an hour. So you would still pay the same €3 you currently pay even if you pass through both. But also a lot of people who currently pay nothing will have to pay €3 as well. Alternatiely, if that doesnt work, introduce two tolls but make both of them to €1.50 so you would still pay €3 for passing both tolls but more people would be contributing. What do people think?

I posted that last week. I think changing the way the M50 is tolled is a great idea. After all the main aim of the proposals are to increase government revenue and this can bring in more money at little extra cost. At the minute there are a lot of people who use the M50 who do not pay for it, if we can charge people who currently pay nothing while keeping the cost the same for those who are already paying it definitely should be done.

KevR

So they want to put a toll on Gort-Tuam and Limerick-Gort?! I would reluctantly pay one toll between Galway and Limerick, no way would I pay 2 tolls; I'd use the old N18 instead out of principle.

Anyone know what's happening with the parking tax thing that was proposed over a year ago but deferred? That's something I hope we never see.

I don't mind paying my fair share of tax but I feel like I'm being raped financially at times because I am a motorist. :mad:

Stark

KevR wrote: »

Anyone know what's happening with the parking tax thing that was proposed over a year ago but deferred? That's something I hope we never see.

Don't think it's going to happen. It's too awkward to determine who has use of a particular car parking space in cases with shared parking.

Amtmann

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I posted that last week. I think changing the way the M50 is tolled is a great idea. After all the main aim of the proposals are to increase government revenue and this can bring in more money at little extra cost. At the minute there are a lot of people who use the M50 who do not pay for it, if we can charge people who currently pay nothing while keeping the cost the same for those who are already paying it definitely should be done.

Do you not think it places a disproportionate burden on the motoring citizenry of Dublin? I think it does. Councils across the land spend so much on road maintenance for several reasons, one of which is the irresponsible and unsustainable habit that many people have of building one-offs outside towns and villages. Each of these has at least two or three cars on average, making multiple journeys each day on roads that were built to carry packhorses and carts. Dublin motorists on the other hand tend to live as efficiently as possible because they are in a concentrated urban area. Hence the greater numbers of traffic on the M50. I really don't see why Dublin motorists should be Dick Turpined only to have their money transfered to utterly unproductive regions. A tax per car in one-offs would be far fairer. The M50 toll is already pricey enough in my opinion.

Stark

If they want to save money, they should start by returning boreens with one off houses to the property owners so the council doesn't have to waste money maintaining them. Too many of these were transferred into council hands in exchange for votes.

Tech3

KevR wrote: »

So they want to put a toll on Gort-Tuam and Limerick-Gort?! I would reluctantly pay one toll between Galway and Limerick, no way would I pay 2 tolls; I'd use the old N18 instead out of principle.

If they stuck a toll on the Ennis bypass then that would be hard to take. The alternative route is very bad going through a large congested town by Irish standards.

I have no problem sticking a toll on the Gort-Tuam future motorway personally once it's built ASAP. It will link Galway and Limerick finally with DC/motorway standard road and if it requires a toll so be it.

Pete_Cavan

Furet wrote: »

Do you not think it places a disproportionate burden on the motoring citizenry of Dublin? I think it does. Councils across the land spend so much on road maintenance for several reasons, one of which is the irresponsible and unsustainable habit that many people have of building one-offs outside towns and villages. Each of these has at least two or three cars on average, making multiple journeys each day on roads that were built to carry packhorses and carts. Dublin motorists on the other hand tend to live as efficiently as possible because they are in a concentrated urban area. Hence the greater numbers of traffic on the M50. I really don't see why Dublin motorists should be Dick Turpined only to have their money transfered to utterly unproductive regions. A tax per car in one-offs would be far fairer. The M50 toll is already pricey enough in my opinion.

I agree with you that one off houses are unsustainable and a drain on resources but I dont think that is a reason not to put a toll on the M50. Just because the M50 is in Dublin does not mean only Dubliners use it. It is the busiest road in the country and is used by many people from outside Dublin. I would imagine (although I have no proof) that a very large percentage, if not the majority of people using the M50 come from outside Dublin. In fact Im sure a lot of the Dubliners who use the M50 do not go over the bridge and do not pay the toll so they get all the benefits without any of the cost. It may well be the case (but again I cant prove it) that it is mainly people from outside Dublin that pay the toll and are therefore paying for an extremely vital piece of infrastructure for the city itself. Either way Dublin motorists are not "Dick Turpined" by adjusting the toll on the M50.

Like I said, the objective here is to raise revenue for the government. The M50 is the most profitable road in the country by a long way but yet the current system of collecting the tolls is very inefficient and many users pay nothing. The tolling arrangement on the M50 could be changed quite easily to catch more people and therefore it would produce more money. The cost of doing this would be quite low when compared to building toll plazas on existing motorways (not that Im saying that shouldnt be done as well). The tolls could be structured in such a way to prevent people from being forced to pay huge amounts and a maximum toll can be set (the current €3 prehaps) and people have to use the road anyway (going through town wont be an option when they start digging for MN). So this is the cheapest solution that would also generate the most revenue - it has to happen.

The other thing this has going for it is that it is acceptable to the voting public. The road is already tolled anyway and my suggestion just makes it fairer because more people contribute. A tax per car in one-offs will never happen because it would be political suicide.

NedNew2

If they must collect more taxes then it should be applied to petrol/diesel and motor tax rates. Then there's no hassle with setting up tolls.

The dynamics of toll dodging are probably being underestimated (i.e. amount of traffic that will divert to avoid new tolls).

Bards

last year the increase in fuel by 5c per litre was a "Carbon Tax"

This year it will be a "Toll Tax" and the excuse they will give is that it will be fairer and chaper to collect an extra 5c on fuel than install and mange Toll plazas all over the country

The Govt are just preparing the way - that is all, and we will all have a big sigh of relief when they do this instead of introducing Hard Tolls

The most annoying thing about this situation is the reason the government is so keen the "shear the sheep" again. Bankers! :mad:

veryangryman

Deleted User wrote: »

The most annoying thing about this situation is the reason the government is so keen the "shear the sheep" again. Wankers! :mad:

Fixed that for you. Any time...

limklad

veryangryman wrote: »

Fixed that for you. Any time...

Bankers ! ****! Is there a difference?

limklad

limklad wrote: »

Bankers ! ****! Is there a difference?

True **** just do it in private, bankers spray it over the whole population! :mad: :pac:

Anyway this isn't AH so back on topic.

The anger such a scheme would create, will act as a good smoke screen for other taxes. Then the idea will be quietly dropped.

galwayrush

Deleted User wrote: »

True **** just do it in private, bankers spray it over the whole population! :mad: :pac:

Anyway this isn't AH so back on topic.

The anger such a scheme would create, will act as a good smoke screen for other taxes. Then the idea will be quietly dropped.

That's the spin of it all.:mad: