importing from the US

firefly08

I know the issue of importing firearms from the US was covered in detail before, however my question is a little different:

If I have something in the US that's legally a firearm in Ireland, but not in the US...can that then be shipped straight to a firearms dealer in Ireland without any paperwork? I have a couple of such items (an antique rifle and an air rifle). I'm looking to sell the air rifle soon, and may eventually want to sell the antique rifle too. I thought they might be worth more in Ireland, especially the air rifle? I am pretty certain the US State Dept could not care less where I send these as they are not considered firearms under US federal law.

FISMA

Probably are worth more in Ireland, however, is it worth the red tape?

Also, consider the limited market of Ireland. Acquiring a firearm in Ireland is a time consuming process. Thus, you have a smaller and more difficult market.

With that said, if you can get it in I would look into seeing the specifics of getting the firearms to the continent or even Britain. Perhaps, if you get it to Ireland and it is relatively simple to get it to the rest of Europe it might be worth your while.

What firearms are we talking about?

Cass

firefly08 wrote: »

.....................If I have something in the US that's legally a firearm in Ireland, but not in the US...can that then be shipped straight to a firearms dealer in Ireland without any paperwork? .............

Short answer is no.

Everything coming into Ireland must be accompanied by paperwork. The fact they are not considered firearms in the US may make the export process simpler on your side, but if they are classed as firearms in Ireland then the import process would need to be the same as for any other firearm.

Licensing the firearm may be far easier here as you can claim to have owned the firearm in the previous three years (as per question on the FCA1) so it would be no harm to go to your local police station (or relevant dept) and ask them for a letter to confirm you owned the article. If they give you a funny look explain the licensing system here and that proof of ownership would be helpful for the licensing of it here as it IS classed as a firearm.

Honestly i have no done anything like this so i'm going on common sense and "possibilities". So take nothing of what i've said as "set in Stone". I'm sure more lads here may have a better understanding of the official procedures or better again may have done it themselves.

Grizzly 45

ezridax wrote: »

Short answer is no.

Everything coming into Ireland must be accompanied by paperwork. The fact they are not considered firearms in the US may make the export process simpler on your side, but if they are classed as firearms in Ireland then the import process would need to be the same as for any other firearm.


Licensing the firearm may be far easier here as you can claim to have owned the firearm in the previous three years (as per question on the FCA1) so it would be no harm to go to your local police station (or relevant dept) and ask them for a letter to confirm you owned the article. If they give you a funny look explain the licensing system here and that proof of ownership would be helpful for the licensing of it here as it IS classed as a firearm.

If they dont throw you out the door of the police dept,for wasting police time!:D.US LEOs can NOT get their heads around the European system of liscensing.So my advice would be go to a paralegal or comissioner for oaths,spend 20/40 dollars and get an attested affadavitt drawn up stating that you have owned these two guns for X number of years.
It's a legal document and is good enough for your proof of possession.

Honestly i have no done anything like this so i'm going on common sense and "possibilities". So take nothing of what i've said as "set in Stone". I'm sure more lads here may have a better understanding of the official procedures or better again may have done it themselves

Is the rifle a Black powder rifle,either muzzleloader or BP cartridge?Pre 1890[?] design?If yes,then it is proably in the US in a BATFE class of "curio and relic"which means that it can be exported without State Dept clearence.Doesnt help much here though.You will need pre approved FACS from your Super or CS as the case maybe. The FACS take care of the US state Dept export requirements along with a DOJ form for importing arms from Non EU countries[downloadable from the DOJ].You then will need to find a courier company who will ship from the US to Ireland,they are few and far between.Only other option is to get yourself over to the US and with the paperwork,bring them back yourself to Ireland in your cargo luggage.Not too difficult either.
Only thing is;are these guns really worth it to sell over here???

firefly08

The rifle is a Mosin Nagant, an antique under federal law (receiver manufactured in 1895) as opposed to a C&R. It is not covered at all by anything in the Gun Control Act (I bought it over the 'net and had it mailed to my door at a time when I could absolutely not have passed a NICS check). it cost me about 300 USD.

The air rifle is a Benjamin Discovery PCP in .22 which came with a hand-pump, I paid 400 USD for that.

My reasoning was that based on an old post here about importing from the US, (can't find it right now) it seemed the only thing you needed to do in Ireland was get the license; all the hassle was on the US side because of laws they have about exporting firearms. I thought that maybe if you had it shipped to a dealer in Ireland, then you wouldn't even need a license?

And since they are not firearms in the US, there'd be no export paperwork? I would bring them myself on the plane as check in luggage, more than likely, as I travel a few times a year.

I wouldn't bother if there was going to be a lot of red tape on either side.

Pkiernan

You need to apply for and receive licenses for the firearms here in Ireland first.

You will therefore need serial numbers, model numbers etc - photos will also help.

If your local FO knows his stuff, he can do this for you. (Be advised that many FO's think that the guns need to be shipped to s dealer before you can apply for your license - for guns coming from outsiide the EU, this is not required).

Upon receipt of your licenses, you can bring the guns back with you. Declare them to customs and present your licenses. They should let you through.

firefly08

You need to apply for and receive licenses for the firearms here in Ireland first.

So how does a firearms dealer import firearms before anyone has a license for them?

Pkiernan

I thought you were asking how you could bring them in yourself.

A dealer has a license to buy/import guns.
You could send them to a dealer here, and have him hold them for you while you apply for your license. If you are subsequently refused a license, then the dealer might well be stuck with them.

Of course, you will then need to find a Federal Firearms Licensed dealer in the US who also has an export license. You could expect to pay $500 for this.

Grizzly 45

Pkiernan wrote: »

Of course, you will then need to find a Federal Firearms Licensed dealer in the US who also has an export license. You could expect to pay $500 for this.

This is a good crowd I have dealt with recently.
http://hurricanebutterflyresearch.com/

This is about the most informative siteon exporting that I've seen in awhile.They are looking at $250 plus 5% of the value of the gun.

firefly08

I would have thought they'd only need an export license to export firearms no? These particular guns are not firearms under US law - that is pretty much the premise of my original post.

If I don't need any paperwork to export them, and a dealer in Ireland doesn't need any special paperwork to import them, then I could get them into the country very easily, it seems? Then I could see about licensing them myself or selling them, although I would probably look into that before I'd import them.

Tackleberrywho

firefly08 wrote: »

I would have thought they'd only need an export license to export firearms no? These particular guns are not firearms under US law - that is pretty much the premise of my original post.

If I don't need any paperwork to export them, and a dealer in Ireland doesn't need any special paperwork to import them, then I could get them into the country very easily, it seems? Then I could see about licensing them myself or selling them, although I would probably look into that before I'd import them.

So you go to amsterdam, you buy "COFFEE" You bring it home and you end up in big do do.Legal in Holland, not legal here.

Get a US dealer to send it LEGIt to you, take the hit on CCT + VAT.

Or just sell it over there.

Not worth the hassle IMHO if the have a low commercial value.

Pkiernan

I do not believe that the Holland analogy above is correct.

The facts are that you have to:

(a) Find someone to ship them to your dealer here in Ireland and then apply for licenses; or

(b) Get licenses for both, and bring them in yourself.

Regarding (a) above, you might not even find someone without an export license to ship them, regardless of how the guns are classified in the US.
I worked at a gunstore in California, and to be honest, we wouldn't do it for a customer. It's not worth the hassle.

Regardin (b), as per the Irish DOJ website, for firearms from outside the EU:

"Persons resident in Ireland seeking to import a firearm
Every person wishing to hold or use a firearm in Ireland must obtain a firearms certificate from the Police Superintendent of the District in which the person resides. Consequently, before bringing a firearm into the country the individual should obtain the necessary certificate by contacting the relevant Station of An Garda Síochána.

If the individual is importing the firearm from outside the European Union, the valid firearms certificate alone will suffice to import and no further documentation will be required from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform."


www.justice.ie/.../Information%20on%20firearms%20licensing.../Information%20on%20firearms%20licensing.doc

As to importing them, you will have to decide whether you think it is worth it. If you intend to import to sell, then in my opinion it is not worth the effort or costs involved. There may not be much interest in either of the guns you described.
You will be looking at €350 + possible VAT to import, €80 per license per gun, and whatever the dealer charges here are.

I have 19 firearms in my safe in California, and looked into importing them here. To cut a long story short, the only one that would make any sense financially would be my Citori shotgun - worth over €2000 here. Even then I wouldn't be making a special trip for it, I'd be bringing back next time I go there on holidays.

firefly08

Fair enough, I understand it might not be worthwhile, but I wanted to find out for sure, at least to know what it would involve.

Can anyone tell me what kind of paperwork etc. is required if I found a dealer in Ireland who was willing to take the rifles - could I then import them myself, taking them with me as luggage, without first having a license (any courier that I might use would not have a license for them either so it must be possible to have possession of them temporarily).

Pkiernan

You cannot bring them through Customs yourself without first having a license for them.

You are required to declare them at Customs Red Channel and present the licenses.

Dealer to Dealer shipping is allowed, but you cannot courier them yourself.

It would make more sense to apply for the licenses first anyway. In case of refusal, then at least the guns are still in the US and can be sold there.

Tackleberrywho

Pkiernan wrote: »

You cannot bring them through Customs yourself without first having a license for them.

You are required to declare them at Customs Red Channel and present the licenses.

Dealer to Dealer shipping is allowed, but you cannot courier them yourself.

It would make more sense to apply for the licenses first anyway. In case of refusal, then at least the guns are still in the US and can be sold there.

TNT aer the only hauliers of firearms also.

tkelly5

Hello thanks for the great info and opinions. I wish to import an Antique, Muzzle-loading, 12-10 Bore "fowler" shotgun, complete with wood ram-rod and sidelocks. the dealer estimates pre-1850. Made in England, no serial number on it. This is what the yanks call a "Wallhanger" and it is exactly what I want it for - no Guarda ever looking at this would ever try to load and use this, in their right mind. It does not accept modern cased ammunition. The cost was about 300 Euro here in the States.

I scoured the reg's and found this:
"
Antiques
If the person wishes to import antique firearms the importation licence is issued subject to the condition that the weapons are submitted to the Ballistics Unit of the Garda Síochána (Police) for examination. Antique weapons are those manufactured pre 1845 which have an ignition system that does not utilise cased ammunition.

Do I have to fill out a FCA1 and receive a license for this like a regular firearm, or is their a special form?

Thanks,

Tom