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What is God to you?

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    #272
    cintaxox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭cintaxox


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Which God is that now?[/QUOT

    Just God i dont believe their is more than one. Im not someone who goes to mass every sunday but i just have faith.


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    #273
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Well there are millions of people who believe in a different God, why are they wrong and you're right?

    Not to mention faiths with more than one god.


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    #274
    cintaxox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭cintaxox


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Well there are millions of people who believe in a different God, why are they wrong and you're right?

    Well im not saying im right. So do u believe in magic ? LOL


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    #275
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    cintaxox wrote: »
    Well im not saying im right. So do u believe in magic ? LOL

    For you you are right,dont need to explain yourself.


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    #276
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    cintaxox wrote: »
    Well im not saying im right. So do u believe in magic ? LOL

    Okay, you believe 100% in a God, but you're not saying you're right?

    That doesn't exactly sound like 100%?
    caseyann wrote: »
    For you you are right,dont need to explain yourself.

    Would you be saying the same if she said ''I have 100% faith in unicorns, just because you can't see them doesn't mean they're not there''?


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    #277
    cintaxox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭cintaxox


    caseyann wrote: »
    For you you are right,dont need to explain yourself.[/QU

    True that ;)


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    #278
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    raah! wrote: »
    Anywhere the words good or bad are applied without being previously defined cannot be described as an objective situation. You really just seem to be failing to grasp the argument. Being an atheist has little to do with it yes. I'm saying arbitrary and accepted definitions of good and bad are necessary before entering into any moral discussion.

    The advantage religious people have is that these definitions are not immediately arbitrary.

    Comments like that are irrelevant. Also the term unfortunate also depends on your definitions of good and bad.
    I don't think it's me who's failing to grasp I'm afraid. Can you define a scenario where a society can define killing in the same category as buying milk or drinking a glass of water and survive? And if not, why can we not define killing as objectively bad? Yes individuals can kill but a society that does not define killing as bad will die. This is not arbitrary, it is not something subjective and agreed upon, it is an objective fact. Do you disagree?
    raah! wrote: »
    The difference is that it cannot be described as morality, and that is what this discussion was about. You appear to have lost track of that however.
    What is the difference? No we can't apply the label that you call morality to it because your definition inherently requires higher thought and a higher being to give it to us but what is the practical difference other than semantics?
    raah! wrote: »
    If you read the first post where i outline why I think empathy based morality is weaker than a reason based morality, you'll see the actual difference to the end result. (Edit: this is not so much a pragmatic difference as it is a difference in the strength of the positions, and self contradictions inherent in an undefined system when someone criticises rape or heroin use)

    It's true, one doesn't need morality to act morally. However , some people are able to think about their actions and act based on reason. It is these people who need strict rules of good and bad.

    I have already made arguments about this, and quoted them for you.
    You won't find me arguing that it's not weaker. It's so much easier to point to a book given to us by the magic man in the sky and say what's good and bad is what he says it is* but this does not mean that it's totally arbitrary, "whatever you're having yourself" ethics. There are still parameters that are defined by the objective facts of our universe, e.g. stabbing in the head kills.

    *except that this particular book was written by primitive desert nomads with primitive values, e.g. the slavery and stoning.
    raah! wrote: »
    This wouldn't be a problem for teh new atheists if they weren't so set on proselytizing, and presenting them self as virtuous champions of reason and science while presenting religious people as horrible biggoted demons.

    Firstly the term "new atheists" is a misnomer, very little that atheists are saying now is new, it's just that we're no longer persecuted and shunned from society for saying it....quite as much

    And secondly, as I've already said, if religious people kept their religion to themselves and didn't, for example, suggest that an atheist should refuse to help someone carry a tv, it wouldn't even come up in conversation.


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    #279
    cintaxox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭cintaxox


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Okay, you believe 100% in a God, but you're not saying you're right?

    That doesn't exactly sound like 100%?



    Would you be saying the same if she said ''I have 100% faith in unicorns, just because you can't see them doesn't mean they're not there''?

    As caseyann said i know myself so it doesn't matter if i sound 100% to you or not.
    If you want to believe in Unicorns id say fair play to you, maybe you should write a thread about it ;)


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    #280
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    cintaxox wrote: »
    As caseyann said i know myself so it doesn't matter if i sound 100% to you or not.
    If you want to believe in Unicorns id say fair play to you, maybe you should write a thread about it ;)
    How do you know yourself?


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    #281
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    The original question was not "Do you believe in God?", nor was it "How do you know?"

    It was more like "What do you mean?" I'd like to hear more about this from some of the believers on the thread.

    Invisible sky-fairy? Undefinable kind of ultimate reality? Or something else?

    I'm genuinely interested.


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    #282
    cintaxox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭cintaxox


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    How do you know yourself?

    Without taking the piss!! Do you have strong feelings for someone in your life at the moment maybe a girlfriend/boyfriend ? How do you know you feel that way about them ?


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    #283
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    cintaxox wrote: »
    Without taking the piss!! Do you have strong feelings for someone in your life at the moment maybe a girlfriend/boyfriend ? How do you know you feel that way about them ?

    That's endorphins isn't it, chemical reactions in the brain to having a partner? Don't mistake something you haven't researched personally as an unknowable phenomenon.


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    #284
    coffee_cake
    Registered Users Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Jakkass wrote: »
    "I don't listen" meaning that I simply just disagree with your view, and I find that it doesn't make very much sense at all?
    You do have a spectacular history of ignoring the point or just not getting it
    cintaxox wrote: »
    I cannot describe in any words what God is to me but i have 100% faith in him. Just because you cant see him doesn't mean he is not their.
    Not their what? Not whose what? :eek:
    caseyann wrote: »
    For you you are right,dont need to explain yourself.
    This IS a public forum, if he wants to make announcements and run off he should just use twitter really
    cintaxox wrote: »
    Without taking the piss!! Do you have strong feelings for someone in your life at the moment maybe a girlfriend/boyfriend ? How do you know you feel that way about them ?
    They're there regardless of my feelings, and it's provable.
    :rolleyes:


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    #285
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    cintaxox wrote: »
    Without taking the piss!! Do you have strong feelings for someone in your life at the moment maybe a girlfriend/boyfriend ? How do you know you feel that way about them ?
    Even if I do, it's hardly comparing like with like, seeing as the people around me actually exist.

    Anyway, my question wasn't aimed towards your feelings, I have no doubt you feel the way you do. I'm just curious how you know God is ''there''. What exactly do you believe? Do you believe God created the Earth and the Heaven's etc in 6 days?


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    #286
    raah!
    Registered Users Posts: 2,629 ✭✭✭raah!


    Aaaaaaah crap, I just made a big long post and then it logged me out and it dissappeared.


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    #287
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    raah! wrote: »
    Aaaaaaah crap, I just made a big long post and then it logged me out and it dissappeared.

    He works in mysterious ways.


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    #288
    raah!
    Registered Users Posts: 2,629 ✭✭✭raah!


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    I don't think it's me who's failing to grasp I'm afraid. Can you define a scenario where a society can define killing in the same category as buying milk or drinking a glass of water and survive? And if not, why can we not define killing as objectively bad? Yes individuals can kill but a society that does not define killing as bad will die. This is not arbitrary, it is not something subjective and agreed upon, it is an objective fact. Do you disagree?
    I do not disagree that killing makes people die and milk are two different thing It's not objective because of the use of the word bad. Here's a disproving example "I think killing is funny and good". Objective, when used in arguments, or maths or anything, depends on initial axioms, intial axioms must be stated. What is arbitrary is your definition of bad, not your viewing that killing kills.
    What is the difference? No we can't apply the label that you call morality to it because your definition inherently requires higher thought and a higher being to give it to us but what is the practical difference other than semantics?
    I outlined it. There is only a practical difference for people who base their actions on reason.
    You won't find me arguing that it's not weaker. It's so much easier to point to a book given to us by the magic man in the sky and say what's good and bad is what he says it is* but this does not mean that it's totally arbitrary, "whatever you're having yourself" ethics. There are still parameters that are defined by the objective facts of our universe, e.g. stabbing in the head kills.
    Again, it kills but why is killing bad? Also these "objective" facts depend on what your epistemological position is. It's not hard to argue that empiricisim is the subjective standard of epistemology.
    *except that this particular book was written by primitive desert nomads with primitive values, e.g. the slavery and stoning.
    Why are slaverey and stoning bad?
    Firstly the term "new atheists" is a misnomer, very little that atheists are saying now is new, it's just that we're no longer persecuted and shunned from society for saying it....quite as much

    And secondly, as I've already said, if religious people kept their religion to themselves and didn't, for example, suggest that an atheist should refuse to help someone carry a tv, it wouldn't even come up in conversation.

    It's not about what they are saying, it's about what they are not saying. The term is completely approrpriate to define the current cultural/social movement headed by "anti-theists" who define as the outsiders religious people. We discussed this matter already, and I referenced beowolf.

    There should be words to describe things, and the term new atheist is what describes this "modern" cultural movement. Atheist clubs and forums everywhere will testify to that, and the superiority they derive from sharing "I'm so intelligent because I'm not religious" stories will testify to their branding religious people as the outside.


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    #289
    cintaxox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭cintaxox


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Even if I do, it's hardly comparing like with like, seeing as the people around me actually exist.

    Anyway, my question wasn't aimed towards your feelings, I have no doubt you feel the way you do. I'm just curious how you know God is ''there''. What exactly do you believe? Do you believe God created the Earth and the Heaven's etc in 6 days?

    I believe in God and i have felt that way since a very young age and had no one pushed me into it when i was young the feeling is just their. I dont know what he did or how long it took him to do it. We only know what we are told but having faith in him is different.


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    #290
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    cintaxox wrote: »
    I believe in God

    You've said that you can't express this in words, but could you try and give it a go? For example, do you believe in a personal God, who is pleased when we live good lives and is disappointed when we don't? Or is it a more abstract feeling of an undefinable higher power?


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    #291
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    cintaxox wrote: »
    I believe in God and i have felt that way since a very young age and had no one pushed me into it when i was young the feeling is just their. I dont know what he did or how long it took him to do it. We only know what we are told but having faith in him is different.
    It sounds like you don't know why you believe in God, you just do for no apparent reason.

    It may not feel like anyone pushed you into it, but had you been born in Iran you'd be a Muslim. If you were born in Israel you'd be a Jew. If you were born in India you'd probably be Hindu and Buddhist if you were born in Sri Lanka. Believe me, your surroundings as a child had a part to play in your chosen faith.


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    #292
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    It sounds like you don't know why you believe in God, you just do for no apparent reason.

    It may not feel like anyone pushed you into it, but had you been born in Iran you'd be a Muslim. If you were born in Israel you'd be a Jew. If you were born in India you'd probably be Hindu and Buddhist if you were born in Sri Lanka. Believe me, your surroundings as a child had a part to play in your chosen faith.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but he didn't say he was Christian - he said he believed in God.

    Edit: Okay, from previous posts I see that he goes to mass every Sunday. But my point still stands! He might be lukewarm on Christianity but strong on God.


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    #293
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but he didn't say he was Christian - he said he believed in God.
    I took a (not so) wild guess.


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    #294
    machhu
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭machhu


    god is evry thing in my life..i thank everything in my life to God....And for the people
    who abuse God here in this forum...may please God Forgiven them


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    #295
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    raah! wrote: »
    I do not disagree that killing makes people die and milk are two different thing It's not objective because of the use of the word bad. Here's a disproving example "I think killing is funny and good". Objective, when used in arguments, or maths or anything, depends on initial axioms, intial axioms must be stated. What is arbitrary is your definition of bad, not your viewing that killing kills.

    I outlined it. There is only a practical difference for people who base their actions on reason.

    Again, it kills but why is killing bad? Also these "objective" facts depend on what your epistemological position is. It's not hard to argue that empiricisim is the subjective standard of epistemology.

    Why are slaverey and stoning bad?
    To answer the questions of why slavery, stoning and killing are bad you just have to ask yourself if you would like to be enslaved, stoned or killed. The answer is that those things would cause you to suffer so you wouldn't. And once you have a big enough group of people, all of whom want to avoid themselves being killed, stoned or enslaved you can form a society where these values become laws. The only way a society can form where these rules are not applied is one where the members quite like being stoned, enslaved and killed. Can you imagine such a society where the inhabitants would be considered sane?

    raah! wrote: »
    It's not about what they are saying, it's about what they are not saying. The term is completely approrpriate to define the current cultural/social movement headed by "anti-theists" who define as the outsiders religious people. We discussed this matter already, and I referenced beowolf.

    There should be words to describe things, and the term new atheist is what describes this "modern" cultural movement. Atheist clubs and forums everywhere will testify to that, and the superiority they derive from sharing "I'm so intelligent because I'm not religious" stories will testify to their branding religious people as the outside.

    Absolutely. The religious brand us as the outside and we brand them as the outside. Two more examples of our supposedly god given morality failing. Of course if there weren't religious groups who are infringing on the lives of the non religious there would be no need for atheist groups for the same reason we don't have groups for people who don't collect stamps.


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    #296
    cintaxox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭cintaxox


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    It sounds like you don't know why you believe in God, you just do for no apparent reason.

    It may not feel like anyone pushed you into it, but had you been born in Iran you'd be a Muslim. If you were born in Israel you'd be a Jew. If you were born in India you'd probably be Hindu and Buddhist if you were born in Sri Lanka. Believe me, your surroundings as a child had a part to play in your chosen faith.

    I believe in god because i am here today because he is in my heart. I have a religion yes but i am not going to tell u so u can critise it. The thread is about god not what religion you are. It sounds to me like you are trying to find him maybe thats why you are on this thread.


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    #297
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    cintaxox wrote: »
    I believe in god because i am here today because he is in my heart. I have a religion yes but i am not going to tell u so u can critise it. The thread is about god not what religion you are. It sounds to me like you are trying to find him maybe thats why you are on this thread.

    Maybe you could describe God to Magic Marker so he knows what to expect when he finds him/her/it.


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    #298
    bleg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    If you were a Fine Gael Supporter and a Fianna Fail supporter offered you a hand with your TV, would you take it?!!?!


    Cause if you do, it's proof that Coughlan is competent.


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    #299
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    cintaxox wrote: »
    I believe in god because i am here today because he is in my heart. I have a religion yes but i am not going to tell u so u can critise it. The thread is about god not what religion you are. It sounds to me like you are trying to find him maybe thats why you are on this thread.
    Why would I want to be acquainted with a such a homophobic, misogynistic, malevolent, sadomasochist?

    No no, I'm quite happy as a freethinker thank you very much.


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    #300
    cintaxox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭cintaxox


    machhu wrote: »
    god is evry thing in my life..i thank everything in my life to God....And for the people
    who abuse God here in this forum...may please God Forgiven them

    He will forgive them if they want but sadly most of them are too stubborn to except him in there lives.


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    #301
    cintaxox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭cintaxox


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Why would I want to be acquainted with a such a homophobic, misogynistic, malevolent, sadomasochist?

    No no, I'm quite happy as a freethinker thank you very much.

    Why you getting so worked up ? I suppose its hard for you having to see things before you believe in them


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