What is God to you?

machhu

thanks cinta..........!

MagicMarker

cintaxox wrote: »

Why you getting so worked up ? I suppose its hard for you having to see things before you believe in them

I don't adhere to blind faith. I don't have to see God to believe in him, just show me some evidence of his existence and I'll gladly admit that I'm wrong.

cintaxox

MagicMarker wrote: »

I don't adhere to blind faith. I don't have to see God to believe in him, just show me some evidence of his existence and I'll gladly admit that I'm wrong.

for those who believe no proof is necessary, for those who dont no proof is possible.

Donkey Oaty

machhu wrote: »

god is evry thing in my life..i thank everything in my life to God....And for the people
who abuse God here in this forum...may please God Forgiven them

Promise publication on free internet forum and wish will be granted. Never known to fail.

MagicMarker

cintaxox wrote: »

for those who believe no proof is necessary, for those who dont no proof is possible.

How convenient.

Donkey Oaty

cintaxox wrote: »

for those who believe no proof is necessary, for those who dont no proof is possible.

Or, as Joe from Reservoir Dogs said: "You don't need proof when you have instinct."

He also said: "There's two ways we can do this job. My way...or the highway!"

cintaxox

MagicMarker wrote: »

How convenient.

Look if god came to u tomorrow and then you believed in him what would be the point in that. Firstly you only believed because you have seen him and that is not what he is about. He doesnt shove the fact that he is god in peoples faces he lets us make up our own mind and that is what life is all about. God will know if you have him in you heart or not.

bleg

North Korea has invented nuclear fusion, for those who believe no proof is necessary, for those who dont no proof is possible.

Aug2009

I think people worry too much about 'God'. If everyone acted in a fair manner and treated each other like human beings we would be better off.

I'm no hippy but can we not just smile and wish everyone well.:rolleyes:

bleg

Aug2009 wrote: »

I'm no hippy but can we not just smile and wish everyone well.:rolleyes:

Thousands of years of human history says no.

cintaxox

cintaxox wrote: »

MagicMarker wrote: »

How convenient.

Look if god came to u tomorrow and then you believed in him what would be the point in that. Firstly you only believed because you have seen him and that is not what he is about. He doesnt shove the fact that he is god in peoples faces he lets us make up our own mind and that is what life is all about. God will know if you have him in you heart or not.

I know i sound so corny but i am not like that at all but i just know there is a god and it is actually impossible to describe. Everyone has there own views and feelings. their will always be two sides

Donkey Oaty

cintaxox wrote: »

MagicMarker wrote: »

How convenient.

Look if god came to u tomorrow and then you believed in him what would be the point in that.

You may have a point there. He came to Peter Sutcliffe, who went on to murder prostitutes on God's instructions.

God coming to people does not usually work out well.

Donkey Oaty

Aug2009 wrote: »

I think people worry too much about 'God'. If everyone acted in a fair manner and treated each other like human beings we would be better off.

I'm no hippy but can we not just smile and wish everyone well.:rolleyes:

I thought we got rid of people like you long ago.

MagicMarker

cintaxox wrote: »

Look if god came to u tomorrow and then you believed in him what would be the point in that. Firstly you only believed because you have seen him and that is not what he is about. He doesnt shove the fact that he is god in peoples faces he lets us make up our own mind and that is what life is all about. God will know if you have him in you heart or not.

Well there's a lot I can say in response to that. But George Carlin says it best...

caseyann

MagicMarker wrote: »

Okay, you believe 100% in a God, but you're not saying you're right?

That doesn't exactly sound like 100%?



Would you be saying the same if she said ''I have 100% faith in unicorns, just because you can't see them doesn't mean they're not there''?

Why do you give a damn if someone believes or not,Its not your business and as a someone who does believe i dont give a toss if you dont.:)

cintaxox

MagicMarker wrote: »

Well there's a lot I can say in response to that. But George Carlin says it best...

God doesn't send you to hell, cause war, violence humans do that. Sound like your already in hell man. U sound like the type who blames everyone but yourself on your own wrong doings.

dr.bollocko

machhu wrote: »

god is evry thing in my life..i thank everything in my life to God....And for the people
who abuse God here in this forum...may please God Forgiven them

Don't pray for me. It offends my atheist sensibilities.

caseyann wrote: »

Why do you give a damn if someone believes or not,Its not your business and as a someone who does believe i dont give a toss if you dont.:)

Because it's a discussion forum CaseyAnn. Where people make points and counterpoints and that. You know, bit of an old discussion, take points on board, read and respond to other peoples posts. That sort of thing.

MagicMarker

caseyann wrote: »

Why do you give a damn if someone believes or not,Its not your business and as a someone who does believe i dont give a toss if you dont.:)

You might want to look up the meaning of the word 'forum'.

cintaxox wrote: »

God doesn't send you to hell, cause war, violence humans do that. Sound like your already in hell man. U sound like the type who blames everyone but yourself on your own wrong doings.

Say again?

What have wrong doings got to do with anything and how exactly have you come to that conclusion about me?

cintaxox

MagicMarker wrote: »

You might want to look up the meaning of the word 'forum'.



Say again?

What have wrong doings got to do with anything and how exactly have you come to that conclusion about me?

Defensive , i dont have all day to give you a counseling session see ya

Donkey Oaty

cintaxox wrote: »

Defensive , i dont have all day to give you a counseling session see ya

Not a very Christian attitude.

raah!

Sam Vimes wrote: »

To answer the questions of why slavery, stoning and killing are bad you just have to ask yourself if you would like to be enslaved, stoned or killed. The answer is that those things would cause you to suffer so you wouldn't. And once you have a big enough group of people, all of whom want to avoid themselves being killed, stoned or enslaved you can form a society where these values become laws. The only way a society can form where these rules are not applied is one where the members quite like being stoned, enslaved and killed. Can you imagine such a society where the inhabitants would be considered sane?

That would answer the question of whether or not I would like to be enslaved stoned or killed. I wouldn't but If I enslave and stone people I can profit from such actions. Wheter or not they could be considered sane is completely irrelevant to whether or not the word objective can be used.

Laws are an example of a creation of a moral system, laws are very similar to religious doctrine. Following laws is less arbitrary than unsupported morals. In this thread people have shown laws in ireland come from religion. A good time line would be

Empathy-moral doctrines based on religion/something like religion- Laws based on religion- laws not based on religion.

Absolutely. The religious brand us as the outside and we brand them as the outside. Two more examples of our supposedly god given morality failing. Of course if there weren't religious groups who are infringing on the lives of the non religious there would be no need for atheist groups for the same reason we don't have groups for people who don't collect stamps.

There's no point in aruing about god given morality with me, I do actually disagree with jakkass about a universal conception of morality. Though I will say at least that his view of morality is consistent.

Anyway back to the point, it seems you are trying to derive a moral system empircally and then call it objective. This isn't possible.

You can support a moral system in it's runnings. For example, ultilitarianism is supported by knowledge of what causes harm to people, but while we can say "this definitely kills someone, following form the precepts of utilitarianism it's wrong", that doesn't make the initial definition of wrong any less arbitrary.

It really is ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Arguments about "this definitely harms society, so it's objectively wrong" hinge on people valuing society. Again Reasons for this have to be provided, and when you go back far enough, you end in a tautology, or just an arbitrary definition of good bad, or things of value, and things not of value.

To go even further, for a staunch materialist, determinism kicks in. So even to start talking about morality doesn't make sense, because culpability comes in. Why is a complex collection of atoms more valuable than a less complex collection? Again to answer these questions you must make value judgements.

To think you can form any moral system without starting from value judgements makes no sense. Anyone who says that they have derived objective moral statements from science is wrong, science doesn't tell you those things.

It is tempting for me to just start posting loads of definitions, which I already have, but people might construe that as insulting. But you are just using the the word objective wrong, and the word morality wrong.

MagicMarker

cintaxox wrote: »

Defensive , i dont have all day to give you a counseling session see ya

Defensive? What are you talking about?

Who sends you to hell if not God?

No offense, but it sounds like you have no clue about what it is you actually believe in.

Donkey Oaty

Summary of post #323: there is a logical impossibility of proceeding from an "is" to an "ought" (AKA "Hume's Gap").

raah!

You have a humerous user name .

Didn't know there was a name for that, but maybe I'll read up on that.

caseyann

MagicMarker wrote: »

How do you know yourself?

Look the way it is you either believe or you dont,there is no answer there is only faith and feeling for god.I lost faith when i was in mid teens.I constantly said was not possible and not real.One day something happened and although i don't believe in going to churches except for funerals.And i do find comfort in churches for funerals why i dont know.Certainly not because i was told to,as when i was a teen i laughed at churches and never took it serious.But after this particular thing happened to me.I felt something different and strenght i had not had for a long time soul and mind wise i found again.
If you lost faith thats for you,for us as believers thats for us.
But i do honestly think majority of people will find it if they are open to it or they have an experience such as i did.And when i say if i had not had faith and god in my heart i would be a lost person.
But everyone has to find him for themselves,no one can show him to you.

Donkey Oaty

raah! wrote: »

You have a humerous user name .

Didn't know there was a name for that, but maybe I'll read up on that.

Humerous: boom boom!

It's an underrated point, but true. Collect all the scientific data you like, and it will only tell you how the world is.

Politicians, Professors of Ethics, Jeremy Kyle, etc, will tell you how the world ought to be and what we ought to do.

But logically you can't move from an "is" to an "ought". Old Hume came out with that one, and he's right.

MagicMarker

caseyann wrote: »

Look the way it is you either believe or you dont,there is no answer there is only faith and feeling for god.I lost faith when i was in mid teens.I constantly said was not possible and not real.One day something happened and although i don't believe in going to churches except for funerals.And i do find comfort in churches for funerals why i dont know.Certainly not because i was told to,as when i was a teen i laughed at churches and never took it serious.But after this particular thing happened to me.I felt something different and strenght i had not had for a long time soul and mind wise i found again.
If you lost faith thats for you,for us as believers thats for us.
But i do honestly think majority of people will find it if they are open to it or they have an experience such as i did.And when i say if i had not had faith and god in my heart i would be a lost person.
But everyone has to find him for themselves,no one can show him to you.

I never lost faith as I never had it.

I could just as easily say the majority of believers would not believe if they opened themselves up to logic and reason and actually educated themselves on the subject.

Donkey Oaty

caseyann wrote: »

Look the way it is you either believe or you dont,there is no answer there is only faith and feeling for god.I lost faith when i was in mid teens.I constantly said was not possible and not real.One day something happened and although i don't believe in going to churches except for funerals.And i do find comfort in churches for funerals why i dont know.Certainly not because i was told to,as when i was a teen i laughed at churches and never took it serious.But after this particular thing happened to me.I felt something different and strenght i had not had for a long time soul and mind wise i found again.
If you lost faith thats for you,for us as believers thats for us.
But i do honestly think majority of people will find it if they are open to it or they have an experience such as i did.And when i say if i had not had faith and god in my heart i would be a lost person.
But everyone has to find him for themselves,no one can show him to you.

I can give you a rational, reasonable (and hopefully kind) explanation for everything you have said which does not have reference to a supernatural being.

I will not do so, as you have not asked for one, and I respect your wishes, as you seem to respect other peoples.

But if you want one, let me know.

My name is URL

MagicMarker wrote: »

I never lost faith as I never had it.

I could just as easily say the majority of believers would not believe if they opened themselves up to logic and reason and actually educated themselves on the subject.

And what about all of the logically minded people who do or did believe in God?

Some of the best scientists and philosophers in history were people of faith

Donkey Oaty

My name is URL wrote: »

Some of the best scientists and philosophers in history were people of faith

They may have been great scientists and philosophers despite being people of faith.

However, when there was the death penalty for atheism, it would have been illogical not to have been a "believer".

Edit: Sorry, but my point is that science and philosophy are not studies where faith plays any role whatsoever.