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What is God to you?
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In what way? Particularly in respect to personal responsibility, I find that quite odd.
Not odd at all
I am responsible for my own actions, I am not born with "original sin" as I didn't do anything in the first place, I do nice things not for reward but from my own empathy for others, I don't thank any god for good things in this world as they're simply the result of people being nice, I don't blame the devil for bad things as they're simply the result of people doing not-nice things, I don't live my life in the hope of being "forgiven" for things I may have done that I regret, I don't think saying a few heil marys absolves responsibility for anything....
In essence, I am responsible for everything I do and no magic thing in the sky is responsible for my existance, my love of life or any path I choose to take.0 -
Why would God be responsible? - As for what is positive and negative, it depends what you mean by positive and negative. Ultimately, if God uses us to do His work, then He is worthy of praise. Ultimately He knows what is best, and His will is more important than mine. If we choose to resist God's work, then yes that can be regarded as negative.
Bad things may happen for a reason, and good things happen for a reason. What the reason is might be difficult to ascertain at times though.
If that renders me as having low IQ sobeit! The Gospel is much more important than intellectual smarts
That logic means there's no such thing as "bad things", they're all good because they all happen for a reason and they're all god using us to do his work. It means that if someone gets sick it's because god wanted them to get sick and trying to make them better is "resisting his work". If god wants them to get better they will and if he doesn't they won't regardless of what any doctors do. And if they die we should rejoice that they have played a part in god's plan for us. It means that these people did the right thing: http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/susan_nielsen/index.ssf/2010/07/faith_healing_in_oregon_a_pict.html0 -
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smokingman wrote: »Not odd at all
I still think so!smokingman wrote: »I am responsible for my own actions, I am not born with "original sin" as I didn't do anything in the first place, I do nice things not for reward but from my own empathy for others, I don't thank any god for good things in this world as they're simply the result of people being nice, I don't blame the devil for bad things as they're simply the result of people doing not-nice things, I don't live my life in the hope of being "forgiven" for things I may have done that I regret, I don't think saying a few heil marys absolves responsibility for anything....
I'm in agreement here with quite a bit. Let's go through the common ground (in bold).
I don't believe I am born with a original sin (in the respect of being a literal sin, but as an inclination to sin), I believe that I am born with the inclination towards sin. I.E - I am created with an aptitude towards sin.
I believe that I am responsible for what I do. I not only believe I am responsible for what I do to others, I am also responsible for what I do to God Himself. People should aim to put themselves right both in respect to the wrongs they have done to others, and to put ourselves right with God by seeking forgiveness.
I don't blame the devil for bad things, precisely because we as human beings can resist temptation and do what is right. People themselves are responsible for what they do, or if they fall into temptation or not.
I don't live my life in the "hope" of being forgiven - precisely because I believe I have been forgiven already, by Jesus' saving death on the cross.
I don't think saying a few Hail Maries absolves responsibility for anything - Neither do I. It is also likely that saying a few Hail Maries can become a ritualistic thing rather than a sincere means of repentance to God. That would be one of my disagreements with only using set prayers. In another respect, I believe prayer should be made to God, and not Mary (one of my disagreements with Roman Catholicism).smokingman wrote: »In essence, I am responsible for everything I do and no magic thing in the sky is responsible for my existance, my love of life or any path I choose to take.
I am responsible for everything I do yes. God is responsible (in the sense of causation) for our existence, but He isn't responsible for our sin or if you choose to reject Him.God gets praised when someone beats cancer, but him and his followers refute any criticism of him when someone say dies from cancer. To use a colloquailism God is a glory hound.
Your criticism isn't of what God is, but rather of how humans refer to God. An entirely different kettle of fish surely?0 -
God is a scientist now?People, time, context, understanding. Those words give a good picture of why God revealed it the way He did. The same is true of why didn't God go right into the detail of the science behind what He did. Genesis isn't intended to be a science book, it is intended to be a description of why we are here, and we are here with the intention of being God's people. Whether or not that actually is the case is down to us!Why would God be responsible? - As for what is positive and negative, it depends what you mean by positive and negative. Ultimately, if God uses us to do His work, then He is worthy of praise. Ultimately He knows what is best, and His will is more important than mine. If we choose to resist God's work, then yes that can be regarded as negative.
Bad things may happen for a reason, and good things happen for a reason. What the reason is might be difficult to ascertain at times though.
If that renders me as having low IQ sobeit! The Gospel is much more important than intellectual smarts
Bad things happen through others doing bad things, or through co-incidence.
Same for good things.
There is no divine intervention involved with anything that happens on this planet.
God has no say in what happens on this planet, because God does not exist.
Now let's say that you're on your way to Church and I pop out of a bush that I had just set fire to, told you that I was God, and asked you to head to, say, Somalia to take the Somalians to the land of milk and honey.
Would you believe that I was God (remember that you don't know who I am)?
If not, why not?
If you don't believe me, then how can you justify the story told by Moses?
If you are dismissing this as a parable, then how do you know if you have the correct interpretation?
If you are saying that you believe your interpretation to be the correct one, then how do you know this?
If you are putting that down to faith, then that's just silly.0 -
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As for God being a scientist, if God is omnipotent and omniscient, then it follows that God also knows in detail how He created the world.Bad things happen through others doing bad things, or through co-incidence.
Same for good things.
There is no divine intervention involved with anything that happens on this planet.
God has no say in what happens on this planet, because God does not exist.
That's your take, and you're entitled to it, but the more important question is why is that your take?Now let's say that you're on your way to Church and I pop out of a bush that I had just set fire to, told you that I was God, and asked you to head to, say, Somalia to take the Somalians to the land of milk and honey.
Would you believe that I was God (remember that you don't know who I am)?
My belief in God isn't dependant on who does the most miracles, but rather because of how Christianity makes much more sense than a secular view of existence. At least that is how I would see it.
Although, I have to say if you burned a bush, and the bush wasn't damaged at all in the slightest afterwards, I would be quite impressed! 0 -
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Jesus ****ing Christ.That logic means there's no such thing as "bad things", they're all good because they all happen for a reason and they're all god using us to do his work. It means that if someone gets sick it's because god wanted them to get sick and trying to make them better is "resisting his work". If god wants them to get better they will and if he doesn't they won't regardless of what any doctors do. And if they die we should rejoice that they have played a part in god's plan for us. It means that these people did the right thing: http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/susan_nielsen/index.ssf/2010/07/faith_healing_in_oregon_a_pict.html
If there was ever a case for chemical castration, then this is it.
Jaysis. Sure what sort of Christian are you if you don't let God take a bit of credit?I still think so!
I'm in agreement here with quite a bit. Let's go through the common ground (in bold).
I don't believe I am born with a original sin (in the respect of being a literal sin, but as an inclination to sin), I believe that I am born with the inclination towards sin. I.E - I am created with an aptitude towards sin.
I believe that I am responsible for what I do. I not only believe I am responsible for what I do to others, I am also responsible for what I do to God Himself. People should aim to put themselves right both in respect to the wrongs they have done to others, and to put ourselves right with God by seeking forgiveness.
I don't blame the devil for bad things, precisely because we as human beings can resist temptation and do what is right. People themselves are responsible for what they do, or if they fall into temptation or not.
I don't live my life in the "hope" of being forgiven - precisely because I believe I have been forgiven already, by Jesus' saving death on the cross.
I don't think saying a few Hail Maries absolves responsibility for anything - Neither do I. It is also likely that saying a few Hail Maries can become a ritualistic thing rather than a sincere means of repentance to God. That would be one of my disagreements with only using set prayers. In another respect, I believe prayer should be made to God, and not Mary (one of my disagreements with Roman Catholicism).
I am responsible for everything I do yes. God is responsible (in the sense of causation) for our existence, but He isn't responsible for our sin or if you choose to reject Him.
Your criticism isn't of what God is, but rather of how humans refer to God. An entirely different kettle of fish surely?
Yeah, but he didn't create the world because he doesn't exist.As for God being a scientist, if God is omnipotent and omniscient, then it follows that God also knows in detail how He created the world.That's your take, and you're entitled to it, but the more important question is why is that your take?
Because I'm a rational person.
If something happens, I will look into the reasons behind it.My belief in God isn't dependant on who does the most miracles, but rather because of how Christianity makes much more sense than a secular view of existence. At least that is how I would see it.
Although, I have to say if you burned a bush, and the bush wasn't damaged at all in the slightest afterwards, I would be quite impressed!
Fair enough, but that doesn't really answer my question. You're just deflecting it by pointing out your beliefs.
As for the burning bush, it wasn't a miracle. One of four things happened.- Moses lied
- Moses was crazy
- Moses had eaten some funky cacti
- Someone else made up the story based on old stories passed down through time
Now why would you believe a 5,000 year old story, and not believe me?
Why is it that you would believe that story, but would probably recommend that I be locked up in Dundrum for telling a similar story today?
Also, it's easy to hide damage to evergreen shrubbery. It generates far more smoke than flame. 0 -
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We do indeed have a lot of common ground Jackass, we are all human
My thoughts below:I still think so!
I'm in agreement here with quite a bit. Let's go through the common ground (in bold).
I don't believe I am born with a original sin (in the respect of being a literal sin, but as an inclination to sin), I believe that I am born with the inclination towards sin. I.E - I am created with an aptitude towards sin.
I too believe we are born with "inclinations" but not for some arbitrary concept of sin. Bad things are bad things and everyone is capable of doing them. To define something like that as a sin, being bad against a gods will, belittles the fact that it is first and foremost a bad thing against a fellow human.
I believe that I am responsible for what I do. I not only believe I am responsible for what I do to others, I am also responsible for what I do to God Himself. People should aim to put themselves right both in respect to the wrongs they have done to others, and to put ourselves right with God by seeking forgiveness.
I don't blame the devil for bad things, precisely because we as human beings can resist temptation and do what is right. People themselves are responsible for what they do, or if they fall into temptation or not.
...this goes back to the arguement that some peeps think that you cannot have morals without religion - something I'm not going to into because it's been done to death. I'll just have to agree to disagree with you on that one and say that I think religion has nothing to do with it.
I don't live my life in the "hope" of being forgiven - precisely because I believe I have been forgiven already, by Jesus' saving death on the cross.
So by that logic, you're not actually responsible for you own "salvation"?
I don't think saying a few Hail Maries absolves responsibility for anything - Neither do I. It is also likely that saying a few Hail Maries can become a ritualistic thing rather than a sincere means of repentance to God. That would be one of my disagreements with only using set prayers. In another respect, I believe prayer should be made to God, and not Mary (one of my disagreements with Roman Catholicism).
With you on the prayer thing but no matter how you do it, you're still seeking the thumbs-up for your life choices.
I am responsible for everything I do yes. God is responsible (in the sense of causation) for our existence, but He isn't responsible for our sin or if you choose to reject Him.
I've said this before but I think the beauty and sheer size of the universe is belittled every time I hear that it's all been created for us, an insignificant amoeba in the grand scheme of things.0 -
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Thoughts below in bold, chat again so Jackass.This will be my last post for a while, but I see something valuable in your post smokingman:
Yeah, it appears we have it the opposite way around. The way I see it is, if I put God first, then I will be able to be a better brother, friend, colleague etc. I believe God should impact my every day experience, and make me aware of other people. It isn't just because that I honour God first that I automatically should ignore everyone else, I would view that my faith should make me more perceptive to other people.
There's the difference, I believe everyone you come across in your day to day life should be dealt with in the same way as your god. To do so otherwise is reducing the importance of your personal relationships. My own "gods" are my wife and son and nothing will ever get in my way of putting them first above all.
It doesn't. I personally believe that Christians can be immoral, and atheists moral and of course vice versa. I believe God gives us the capability of being moral however in that we were all given a conscience, and we can choose to ignore it and in turn disobey God, or indeed affirm it and follow God. The conscience is the door to better understanding right from wrong.
True, all people are capable of both, regardless of race, religion, etc..
Where we may differ though is maybe on the origin of our conscience. You believe it's god-given, I believe it's an evolutionary trait. Whichever way though, it's important we have one and I think we can agree on that.
No. I am not good on my own merit. Jesus is the reason why I am able to be saved, because my sins have been forgiven by Him.
Ah now, don't be down on yourself Jackass, I believe you are inherently good!
I could go on about religious oppression of the self etc but in all fairness, you're awesome, take the credit for things you've been responsible for, i.e. your life
Interesting, perhaps if you could elaborate on this more. I don't want to misinterpret what you are saying.
Nay worries, prayer is talking to god and it's used to become closer to him yes? The way I see it, it's moreso pleading for acceptance, be it eventual entry to heaven or asking for guidance on choices you make - effectively looking for a thumbs-up that will only be delivered when a subjective interpretation of "that's god working right there on my behalf" is construed when something proves to be a right decision.
I've heard this accusation numerous times, but I actually don't believe that this is all created just for us. I believe that the universe is a testament to God's glory and creative power. It isn't just for you and for I, that's why I would see this as being God's world, and not our world.
It is because we try to make it our world without any consideration that it is actually God's, that problems arise to begin with.
Human arrogance will always put us, as a race, first. Humility is unfortunately, something that wasn't taught too well, even in your book.
I can live in hope though0 -
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