What is God to you?

ScumLord

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

Perfectly valid mate. I only meant that there is no argument from atheists as to what drives us to make decisions based purely on morality unless we believe in God/morality. We are innately communists as a pack animal, and therefore believe in justice, yet we adopt capitalism, the belief of a lone predator.

Capitalism is basically just the natural system with money. Nature is cruel, I don't know where people get this assumption that nature is like a Disney film where nothing bad ever happens, we're easily the nicest animal on the planet.

It's all gone a bit wrong lately with industrialised farming but most of the negative things we do are side effects of being such a successful animal. If mother nature was a real sentient thing I'm sure she'd be torn between hating us for destroying everything and pride that we're such a success.

kylith

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

No. I merely asked you why you would do something out of love( an unquantifiable object) when all other animals are driven by self-interest?

Untrue. Chimps have been shown to have a concept of fairness, dogs have been documented putting themselves in danger to save an injured friend.

Ickle Magoo

There are many documented cases of animals helping each other, even different species helping each other...are they religious? Animal morality

Is it really such an outlandish concept that animals care for each other and help each other because we have evolved with the understanding that to do so favours our chances of survival?

AskMyChocolate

genericguy wrote: »

STFU.

I'm a devout atheist, and i help people all the time without charging them for it. that's the most ridiculous, self-defeating point any bible-basher can make.

you need god to be good - so if there was no god, would you go out raping people and murdering them, OP?

Aah GG. Don't be going mad. You've seen Jakkass on these threads asking me why I hate the Catholic Church so much? So you can hardly accuse me of being a bible-basher. I am a bible-basher, but not in the sense you meant it. I don't believe in religion but I do believe in God.
Btw, answer the question, why do you help people for free when that help should surely be monetarised?

Snowie

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

To me, God is when:

1) You want the best kid to win but secretly you're hoping that the kid whose dad couldn't afford a decent tennis racket (racquet?) to win.

2) When you're paying on the bus and you see some poor divil haring from a hundred yards away and they aren't going to make it, so you drop your bus-fare on the floor (to the disgust of the busdriver and the cosily ensconced clientele) and by the time you pick it up they've made it.

3) When you don't fight your corner and realise afterwards that you saved people you love a needless pain.

4) AH answer: When you're standing outside Coppers at three o'clock in the morning wondering how the hell your wages still aren't in your account, and you're contemplating the six mile barge home ,cos you can't afford a taxi; when suddenly an angel appears( the girl you were talking to at the bar earlier in the night and whose existence you had forgotten) and asks if you'd like to come back to their place for a nightcap.
You walk out the following morning having had a snog, a shag she insisted upon, having made a good impression on her friends, cooked breakfast, and still in time for the first race and directions from the lads at the bar as to how to get home.

So, anyway, where does everyone else see God? Would be particularly interested to hear from the atheists.

Btw, if you're an atheist and you're struggling to carry a 36" television down four flights of stairs and a christian turns to you and says," Do you want a hand with that mate?" What do you say?

thast quite easy an abomination of some idiots mind...
tho i do beleave in something jsut not religion:mad:

Scientology ftw

raah!

Some people should look up the definition of the word morality.

/unsubscribes

AskMyChocolate

pmcmahon wrote: »

this is why there should be a face-palm smiley,i am bringing the face-palm back

Why?

And now I am going to read through the end of the thread before making any more replies because they've prob been addresssed in the following posts if I just got a chance to read them.:mad::)

genericguy

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

Aah GG. Don't be going mad. You've seen Jakkass on these threads asking me why I hate the Catholic Church so much? So you can hardly accuse me of being a bible-basher. I am a bible-basher, but not in the sense you meant it. I don't believe in religion but I do believe in God.
Btw, answer the question, why do you help people for free when that help should surely be monetarised?

are you fcuking serious?

i help people because it's nice to do someone else a solid. because i'm the type of person that will put themselves out to help others, i have a network of friends who would return the favour in kind should i ever require assistance with anything. if i don't need a favour back from such people, great, but i managed to put a smile on someone's face.

AskMyChocolate

genericguy wrote: »

he told you this, did he?

He? Y'chauvinist prick.:p

Einhard

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

Btw, if you're an atheist and you're struggling to carry a 36" television down four flights of stairs and a christian turns to you and says," Do you want a hand with that mate?" What do you say?

As an atheist I'd take the lift. It's the rational choice...

Ickle Magoo

raah! wrote: »

Some people should look up the definition of the word morality.

/unsubscribes

Indeed.

Morality (from the Latin moralities "manner, character, proper behavior") is a sense of behavioral conduct that differentiates intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are good (or right) and bad (or wrong).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality

Stercus Accidit

'Morality' (empathy) is even observed in monkeys. I help you, you help me, our pack doesn't get eaten by lions, simple. Link Will these chimpanzees get into heaven?

To most atheists their basic morality is inherent, its empathy (a naturally evolved trait), and the finer details are thought out and dealt with with a focus on society as a whole, rather than the dangerous, lazy and stupid notion that 2000+ year old superstitions and calls for stoning, burning and murder for minor 'offences' is an adequate substitute for actual rational thought and debate. A lot of the sh!te in the bible throws morality and empathy out the window and just relies on fear, have a read of Leviticus, the word of god indeed.

Leviticus;
20:9 If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.
20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.

I find the notion of a magic man who loves us all and made us in his perfect image (explain my hairy arse please) as laughable as it is tragic, it is a way for lazy ignorant people to claim higher knowledge with zero effort, than scientists and others who improve and advance our lives through rationality. If god made smallpox and polio, it was science that eradicated it, god is nothing but a lie told by idiots to fools, every good deed I do is because I choose to do so, my underlying empathy to my fellow man, you do so to get a prize, heaven, your deed is not good, its just to receive a prize.

Don't get me started on the false quality 'faith', the believing or convincing yourself to believe in something preposterous, because to not question it is a quality, faith. In any other context its called being gullible, the lack of scepticism, such faith has been shown by those who proclaim that god will protect them, walk into a lion pen, and are mauled.

AskMyChocolate

kylith wrote: »

I agree. It's scary too, to think that there's a large amount of people who would go around murdering, stealing and raping if they didn't think someone was looking over their shoulder.

Um, because they're wrong. You don't need divine inspirtation to tell you that murder and rape are wrong.

Of course OTOH the bible condones murder and rape. So I suppose the question is why don't religious people stone their unruly children to death like the bible says they should?

Why? I would say that it is divine inspiration that tells you what is inherently right or wrong. Or where do you think your sense of justice comes from? No other animal thinks murder or rape are wrong.

Einhard

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

Perfectly valid mate. I only meant that there is no argument from atheists as to what drives us to make decisions based purely on morality unless we believe in God/morality. We are innately communists as a pack animal, and therefore believe in justice, yet we adopt capitalism, the belief of a lone predator.

Actually, there's an increasing body of scientific evidence supprting the hypothesis that morality developed in humans as an evolutionary advantageous strategy. Basically, sharing food and aiding other in the kin group, proved beneficial not just to the recipient of that aid, but also, in the long run, to the provider. Thus, morals evolved gradually, as those without them were at a comparative disadvantage, and their genes more likely to disappear from the wider pool. It's actually quite a simple and elegant theory. If you're in anyway interested in educating yourself on the subject, I'd suggest The Selfish Gene, the Ancestor's Tale, or The Greatest Show on earth, all by Richard Dawkins. They're not about atheism or religion, just a brilliant scientist explainign evolution in all its majesty.

Ickle Magoo

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

Why? I would say that it is divine inspiration that tells you what is inherently right or wrong. Or where do you think your sense of justice comes from? No other animal thinks murder or rape are wrong.

Of course they do - have you never seen a nature programme before or something? Seriously, you have never seen a pride or herd protecting one of it's members from being mauled or killed or dragged off by a male from another troupe or whatever?

Stercus Accidit

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

Why? I would say that it is divine inspiration that tells you what is inherently right or wrong. Or where do you think your sense of justice comes from? No other animal thinks murder or rape are wrong.

Wrong http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070625085134.htm

And http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/20/science/20moral.html

ScumLord

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

Aah GG. Don't be going mad. You've seen Jakkass on these threads asking me why I hate the Catholic Church so much? So you can hardly accuse me of being a bible-basher. I am a bible-basher, but not in the sense you meant it. I don't believe in religion but I do believe in God.
Btw, answer the question, why do you help people for free when that help should surely be monetarised?

Surely the best way to understand god is through science? The only thing you can say for an absolute fact if you believe in a God is that he made the universe.

So surely that would mean the best way to understand God is to study his work which is what science does. The religions where man made and influenced, they're corrupted by time at the very least if they did come from a God, so to be sure you should do your own research and study as much scientific text as you can, learn the scientific method and be critical of information as this is important God related work you have to be sure it's of the highest standards.

ldxo15wus6fpgm

Terry wrote: »

Actually, it's more from Judaism and the old testament. Which is what a lot of the techings of Jesus (a known Jew) were based on.

What I mean is the dominant religion in Ireland is Christianity, and Christianity taught a set of morals.

kylith wrote: »

We've grown beyond that as a society. We don't see sex outside of marriage as immoral, in direct contradiction of the prevailing religion. We don't see homosexuality as immoral, or not being Religion X, or working on Sundays, or most of the six hundred and odd rules in the OT.

Morality is dictated by society, not religion.

I wouldn't call it growth, I'd call it movement as a society.

Due to the fact that the world has become a much smaller place and people have become accustomed to things such as homosexuality or sexual "promiscuity". We are used to working on sundays and having religious diversity in our country, it is seen as the norm. Go back to 1900's Ireland and it would be a very different story :P

MagicMarker wrote: »

Do you think if a child were raised today completely segregated from any and all religions then that child wouldn't have any sense of morality?

I have already stated that yes, I do. Taking that "completely segregated" means the parents of the child would not themselves have any religious influences themselves, that is.

There are plenty of examples. They're called feral children, google it.


EDIT:

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

'Morality' (empathy) is even observed in monkeys. I help you, you help me, our pack doesn't get eaten by lions, simple. Link Will these chimpanzees get into heaven?

I'm sorry, but you're confusing morality with an animal's instincts and its need to survive.

AskMyChocolate

kylith wrote: »

I agree. It's scary too, to think that there's a large amount of people who would go around murdering, stealing and raping if they didn't think someone was looking over their shoulder.

Um, because they're wrong. You don't need divine inspirtation to tell you that murder and rape are wrong.

Of course OTOH the bible condones murder and rape. So I suppose the question is why don't religious people stone their unruly children to death like the bible says they should?

Because most of us are Christians first and Catholics second.;)

My name is URL

I find it humorous that those denouncing the idea of God as some magical man controlling their morals are the same ones who equate everyone else's ideas on it as just that

Isn't that more anti-theism than atheism?

genericguy

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

Because most of us are Christians first and Catholics second.;)

and why, pray tell, are you so sure that christianity is correct where islam and judaism and hinduism are incorrect?

Einhard

Tucker Flaky Blonde wrote: »

Morals and morality stem from religion. If there were never any religions in our society, I firmly believe we wouldn't have morals.

You can even look at Roman society, even though they had religion, they didn't have morals as we think of them today. The torture/raping/murder of slaves etc. was common practice.
The morals of our society stem mainly from Christianity, as it is the religion which has had the most influence on us.

So, morality stems from religion. The Romans were religious. And often barbarous. Therefore....sorry what was your argument again?

Let me try again.

Morality stems from religion. Europeans have long been religious. Christianity has been the primary religion of Europe for over 1500 years. In that time, Europeans have waged three of the most horrific wars ever undertaken- The 30 Years War (of religion), WW I, and WW II. They have subjected much of the rest of the world to the brutality of colonialism. They have massacred and exterminated whole peoples; they have destroyed civilisations. They have raped and murdered and pillaged on a massive scale. It is clear therefore that, historically Europeans have not been moral. There can only be two conclusions from this, a) Europeans have not been Christian, or b) morality stems neither from religion in general, nor Christianity in particular.

Stercus Accidit

My name is URL wrote: »

Isn't that more anti-theism than atheism?

Who ever said an atheist can't be anti-theist?

Opinicus

Q. What is god to you?

A. A Sadist

Terry

genericguy wrote: »

i dont rape, steal or murder because it's crappy behaviour. i don't believe in communism because by its nature it removes the need for people to better themselves and achieve. i don't need some mystical bearded bloke with an insatiable thirst for money and bloodshed to tell me to treat people well.

rational inquiry and capitalism for the win.

It took about a day googling, but it turns out that communism does actually exist.
Feckin' Chinese.

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

No. I merely asked you why you would do something out of love( an unquantifiable object) when all other animals are driven by self-interest?

I was going to point out instances of other animals helping each other, but was beaten to the punch.
Ever owned a dog?

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

Aah GG. Don't be going mad. You've seen Jakkass on these threads asking me why I hate the Catholic Church so much? So you can hardly accuse me of being a bible-basher. I am a bible-basher, but not in the sense you meant it. I don't believe in religion but I do believe in God.
Btw, answer the question, why do you help people for free when that help should surely be monetarised?

Because they need help. Simple as that.

Tucker Flaky Blonde wrote: »

What I mean is the dominant religion in Ireland is Christianity, and Christianity taught a set of morals.



I wouldn't call it growth, I'd call it movement as a society.

Due to the fact that the world has become a much smaller place and people have become accustomed to things such as homosexuality or sexual "promiscuity". We are used to working on sundays and having religious diversity in our country, it is seen as the norm. Go back to 1900's Ireland and it would be a very different story :P



I have already stated that yes, I do. Taking that "completely segregated" means the parents of the child would not themselves have any religious influences themselves, that is.

There are plenty of examples. They're called feral children, google it.

We were actually quite civilised before St. Patrick set foot on these shores.
A bunch of idiot barbarians would not have been able to construct the likes of Newgrange, which is older than the great pyramid at Giza.

The whole of humanity would not exist were it not for co-operation between people. Man cannot live on bread alone.

Ickle Magoo

Tucker Flaky Blonde wrote: »

I have already stated that yes, I do. Taking that "completely segregated" means the parents of the child would not themselves have any religious influences themselves, that is.

There are plenty of examples. They're called feral children, google it.

Feral children grow up devoid of any human contact, familial nurture or tribe mentality, not just segregated from organised religion.

There are also many remote tribes that have no exposure to religion as we know it yet they have developed tribal roles, rules and forms of shared morality. Google it.

My name is URL

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Who ever said an atheist can't be anti-theist?

You can be an antitheist who is also an atheist, but I don't think you can be an atheist who is also an antitheist. If you oppose the idea of God then you're an antitheist.. if you oppose the idea of God being a deity then you're an atheist

MagicMarker

Tucker Flaky Blonde wrote: »

I have already stated that yes, I do. Taking that "completely segregated" means the parents of the child would not themselves have any religious influences themselves, that is.

There are plenty of examples. They're called feral children, google it.

Care to provide links from a reputable source that prove feral children lack any sort of morality?

I'll wait.

Einhard

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

Why? I would say that it is divine inspiration that tells you what is inherently right or wrong. Or where do you think your sense of justice comes from? No other animal thinks murder or rape are wrong.

Actually, as far as I'm aware, humanity is the only species of animal where murder, rape, and the assault of others for no percieved advantage exists on a widespread basis. No other animal thinks on the subjects, because no other animal enages in such practises in quite the fashion we do. How does that square with your hypothesis?

The Mad Hatter

AskMyChocolate, I hope you don't consider this an insult, because it isn't meant as one, but you really, really need to educate yourself on atheism, sociology and zoology (Edit: and morality) before you continue making these baffling statements.