Street Fighter III - Third Strike Online Edition-released

ayjayirl

spacenugget wrote: »

completely off topic
Going to ring them now.
Again I know this is completely off topic, but what exactly should I be saying to the guys, the download/upload speed is fine but the ping/jitter is beyond random. and its easily noticable in game. Its like night and day.

AFAIK this is a common problem with UPC. speeds are fine but with the jitter and ping it not for gaming.

spacenugget

ayjayirl wrote: »

AFAIK this is a common problem with UPC. speeds are fine but with the jitter and ping it not for gaming.

Its pretty annoying considering I use it for pretty much nothing else. It seems to happen for long periods at a time (5-6 days) then go back to normal.

Its easy to see when its happening and my ranking takes an awful battering every time it happens as I just cant stay away. Learning 3rd strike with the amount of lag is proving pointless with no offline games to be had
oh well, Ill ring em and see if anything can be done.

Dreddybajs

Deleted User wrote: »

Like i said, i choose characters based on character design and move set, not tiers and stamina bars. It feels like this game doesn't have much to offer me....

Akuma's low stamina is one of the integral aspects of his character design though. He's designed to be a very high risk/high reward character due to it.

If you don't like the game that's fair enough man, plenty of people dislike 3s (many more than actively dislike any other SF title I'd wager).

Just for the record I think jumping at the wrong time is much more easily and devastatingly punished in ST or SF4 than 3rd Strike though. In 3s you're usually being hit by a low damage AA normal, sometimes into a reset situation, and much less usually eating a combo, and neither of those are guaranteed for the player defending the jumpin - if they guess wrong they can get punished themselves.

In ST, you're eating quite a lot of damage from a DP into a wakeup situation that ranges from zoning that'll put you at a huge disadvantage positionally (Sim/O. Sagat/Ryu especially in the corner), to an absolutely devastating mixup that means you're probably losing another 30%-50% health before you get out (pretty much fill in whatever character you like but especially the grapplers, and with them some characters literally just die once it happens).

In SF4, you're eating a 30%-40% combo off a DP fadc ultra.

It can be frustrating being hit by AA orbs, I know, but it's really not the hardest tactic to get around, and to be honest Urien is the one taking the risk, not you (character dependant but a fair few characters get a free punish if he throws an AA orb and you don't jump). I'd say if you can motivate yourself to stick with it a bit longer you'll soon learn whether you can jump safely, how to time parrying the orbs even if you get into that situation, and how to punish the orb if he throws it at the wrong time. Matchup knowledge in 3s is fairly straightforward once you get your head around stuff like how strong parrying is as an option in certain situations, what you can punish with raw supers, etc.

K.O.Kiki

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axc5-nDATeU

Just a random 3rd Strike vid I picked from my subscriptions.

These are not SUPER-HIGH level players.

Please observe that they actually use fireballs for zoning.

Kaiser Hugo

Had some good matches there the other night as Dudley (even against the dreaded Urien). Dudley is such a great character if you can get a bit of momentum.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OtYe5AwhUI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6jWbPJXUwg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbkQXBG0oPM

spacenugget

woooaaahhh

After a solid week (or more) of 3rd Strike going back to 4 was a slap in the face.
I'd suddenly became free in 4 I was playing like I'd never seen an 2/Alpha/4 game :rolleyes:. Missing dash cancels, elbows, not fully imputing ultras, mashing on wakeup :eek: twas weird.

Doyler gave me a solid beating 3 or 4 times and I continued to lose those oh so precious points.
(I care not for points but almost dropping 1k BP is still a little rough)


My little late night 3s ramble.
If you get easily bored, or love 3rd strike so much you would actually have a bare knuckle fight to defend its honour do not read:

I have a new respect for 3rd strike players. I do. The game demands you know it inside out. I can see how this will look like a whinge, but its not. After a short period of time playing and reading about the game I now understand how it is exciting and enjoyable. How good reads and parrying will kill the pressure, or allow you to start your own... but to make those reads, and know the individual parrys, learn the matchups, the character specific timings, etc etc will take time........ a lot of time.

A lot of time that is really playing catchup with little to no discoverys of your own. The game is good, but it will remain a niche game which is excellent for the 3rd strike lovers out there, but to get new players (or players from other games) to want to make the commitment and put the effort in, the pull just isnt there. Unless you enjoy one of (arguably) 6 characters I guess.

As a player learning, the I'm-gonna-get-right-in-your-face-and-not-stop-pressing-buttons-till-your-dead-or-you-get-launched-so-I-can-do-my-70%-juggle-combo-in-the-corner buzz is getting real stale, real fast. There is no other way to say it but I have a feeling that 3rd Strike online will eventually only be played by those who have already been playing all these years along with a few new Ken/Chun/Mak/Yun players.

So I guess I have another game I can play when drunk/with friends/for fun, but as for getting to any sort of level... I cant see myself making the jump.
A rebalance was out of the question as Capcom seen how the current players would have been more than pissed, but in my opinion (humble opinion) it might have eased a lot of new players in if there was a 'remixed' mode. With such a small selecton of viable characters and how solid and set most 3s players are it really is a war of attrition. Many of the players I know who got into HDR came out playing ST with a fresh outlook. I completely suck ass at ST just for the record, but HDR got me back into fighting games after a very very long time.

But anyway: rebalance, 3s, ST, and everything else has been talked about to death so I guess I should stop rambling...... 4am :eek:

Vyze

I actually agree that a rebalance would've been a good idea, so long as the original 3S is still there. Like with HDR, if you want to play the original game you still can.

Dreddybajs

imo a rebalance might've caused a bigger initial surge of players (like HDR), but it would've split the community, angering a lot of the tournament players of the game and probably ultimately ended up with people going back to 3s once the new players mostly stopped playing again (like HDR).

Ramza

No

spacenugget wrote: »

I'm-gonna-get-right-in-your-face-and-not-stop-pressing-buttons-till-your-dead-or-you-get-launched-so-I-can-do-my-70%-juggle-combo-in-the-corner

Elaborate plox

Vyze

Ramza wrote: »

No




Elaborate plox

I think he probably played an Urien who did tackle/aegis juggle stuff on him.

spacenugget

Vyze wrote: »

I actually agree that a rebalance would've been a good idea, so long as the original 3S is still there. Like with HDR, if you want to play the original game you still can.

Dreddybajs wrote: »

imo a rebalance might've caused a bigger initial surge of players (like HDR), but it would've split the community, angering a lot of the tournament players of the game and probably ultimately ended up with people going back to 3s once the new players mostly stopped playing again

But if it was done right, with the right imput from the right players I dont see how Street Fighter 3 (4th sub title) would be a bad thing. I guess the player base is too small to try such a thing, but thats also the point I was trying to make: 3rd strike online will be played by the same players it always has, unless you can attract a large numer of players from 2/4.
I dont get how a rebalance could upset tournament players. Im a still little (a lot) ignorant to high level play (never been to a tourny) but if someone is good enough to play street fighter 3 at that high of a level. How could balance changes, ones that dont change how the game works on a execution or mechanics level suddenly turn a good game ****, and a great player free.
I still wouldnt be committing to SF3 regardless so Im just curious, Im not calling for a rebalance or not, Im honestly just enjoying the convo.

On HDR:
You would have to change a lot more than HDR did to turn SF2 into a **** game. I dont know anything about Sirlin other than he was head designer but he seems to get a lot of hate but not a lot of praise for bringing SF2 to people in a way that it seemed fresh and new. A lot of people who hadnt played a fighting game in years got excited by HDR (myself included).

After Online play in HDR, Reality set in that I sucked. Sucked bad. But overtime, I started to learn how to play the game properly. I would take a shot in saying if it wasnt for HDR, SFIV wouldnt have sold as well as it did, and the surge of players wouldnt have been so great. I for one would have said 'safe jump waaa?, frame data waaa?'

Looking back on HDR's release as a better (I hope) player I can say:
SFIV being released so soon afterward stole a huge chunk of potential players away, that sucked the new players out of HDR and into SFIV leaving either guys who truely wanted to level up in HDR and the ST original gamers. Also I would gamble that HDR Not getting an arcade release busted HDR's chances in Japan, even if players had loved it.

Ramza wrote: »

No
Elaborate plox

It was an attempt at being funny, it was said tounge in cheek. I even Italic-hyphenated it. jeeez

Vyze wrote: »

I think he probably played an Urien who did tackle/aegis juggle stuff on him.

You both took the 70% juggle thing too seriously and literal I really should have worded it better. Not just Urien, Ive been caught in serious damaging loops in the corner by Oro, Dudley, Akuma, Yun and its less about the juggles more about the intense pressure thats put on you.
Uoh, throw, bait, parry, low, high, whats character specific, what isnt, there is a lot to learn, and you must learn it while playing a game allready figured out to death, against players who have perfected their mixup. Thats hard, especially when the choice of viable characters is so small.

Not a whinge or a cry about how hard 3rd strike is. If anything after moving to Makoto from Q and some time to get used to how the game played wins came pretty easy. As I said already: after some time with the game I wouldnt see myself trying to get to the next level even if the game was brand new and everyone was starting from square one. Time isnt an issue for me. There is just too many other games that are begging to be played or learnt. I'm just giving mt two cents.

Doctor DooM

You know myself and Ramza had this exact discussion about a year ago in this thread?

Memorieeeessss.....

UberPrinny_Baal

Doctor DooM wrote: »

You know myself and Ramza had this exact discussion about a year ago in this thread?

Memorieeeessss.....

The Wheel of Fate continues to turn, I was part of that as well.

I'm going to stay out of it this iteration though.

Doctor DooM

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

The Wheel of Fate continues to turn, I was part of that as well.

I'm going to stay out of it this iteration though.

Me too, no one is right or wrong about it anyway. I mean, they could release a 4rd strike some day seperately to make money if they really want to.

Dreddybajs

spacenugget wrote: »

3rd strike online will be played by the same players it always has, unless you can attract a large numer of players from 2/4.

This is going to be true whether you rebalance the game or not really - a lot of people just don't gel with the parry system, or don't like the character designs, or the shallow nature of the game as exemplified by low forward xx super.

At the end of the day the SF3 games are dramatically and fundamentally different to any other titles in the main SF series, and a rebalancing isn't going to change that.

The game is what it is, and people have already had plenty of time to figure out if they like it or not. I don't see a rebalance attracting many more players from ST (especially) or from SF4 than 3soe did anyway.

I dont get how a rebalance could upset tournament players. Im a still little (a lot) ignorant to high level play (never been to a tourny) but if someone is good enough to play street fighter 3 at that high of a level. How could balance changes, ones that dont change how the game works on a execution or mechanics level suddenly turn a good game ****, and a great player free.

I'm not sure how to explain how balance changes can turn a good game into a bad one, it seems pretty self-evident. Look at AE, even if the twins hadn't been introduced many players would think it's a worse game than Super just due to the damage/hitbox nerfs on a lot of characters.

I don't think anyone posited that balance changes to a game would make a good player free, but it definitely might remove their motivation to compete to a certain extent - look at Doom for example, most of Guile's nerfs from Super to AE were damage-related, and in general the game moved from one of strong zoning to a game where rushdown for the most part crushes that strategy. Is it any surprise that he's probably going to have less fun with the game than he did with super?

3s is a very unbalanced game, but it's a very fun one. On the other hand, you could argue that HDR is more balanced than ST (though I'm not sure of the truth of that), but most tournament SF2 players seem to find it less fun.

On HDR:
You would have to change a lot more than HDR did to turn SF2 into a **** game. I dont know anything about Sirlin other than he was head designer but he seems to get a lot of hate but not a lot of praise for bringing SF2 to people in a way that it seemed fresh and new. A lot of people who hadnt played a fighting game in years got excited by HDR (myself included).

I didn't say he made it into a **** game, just remarked on what happened with SF2 tournaments after the game was released. As a casual ST player I was as excited for HDR's release as anyone, and it was the first fighting game I took very seriously and tried to get good at.

Personally I now think that HDR is a worse game than ST in that it's just a lot less fun for me to play. A lot of characters got unnecessary changes that are hard to justify (a lot of the criticism levelled at Sirlin is down to his not listening to top players about the rebalancing from what I know), and the game's top tier seems to be smaller than ST's.

It also removes a lot of the intense pressure which is one of the hallmarks of ST that I really enjoy.

Looking back on HDR's release as a better (I hope) player I can say:
SFIV being released so soon afterward stole a huge chunk of potential players away, that sucked the new players out of HDR and into SFIV leaving either guys who truely wanted to level up in HDR and the ST original gamers. Also I would gamble that HDR Not getting an arcade release busted HDR's chances in Japan, even if players had loved it.

Well, people are always going to leave games behind for the next big thing, that's been true as long as fighting games have been around (up until 3s anyway). The game definitely didn't have a chance in Japan, but I'm dubious as to whether it would've taken off if it had - that American tournaments have largely gone back to ST over HDR isn't a great sign tbat tbe game had longevity with ST players, and the level and number of players is much higher in Japan.

spacenugget

At the end of the day the SF3 games are dramatically and fundamentally different to any other titles in the main SF series, and a rebalancing isn't going to change that.....
The game is what it is, and people have already had plenty of time to figure out if they like it or not. I don't see a rebalance attracting many more players from ST (especially) or from SF4 than 3soe did anyway.

I agree with this, I really do. I just was giving my story on how the rebalance of HDR did make a difference when it came to attracting me to the game again. Just by toning down Sagat alone.

I'm not sure how to explain how balance changes ...... snip

oh noone posted that balance changes to a game would make someone free that was just me using poor choice of words again . You make very good points about balance, especially about Guiles nerfs, although there is a certain jamaican that seems solid as **** in AE :P.
But I would honestly say that using AE is a bad example. AE is a lesson in how to unbalance a game, the changes they made were (apparantly) on purpose to appeal to the underdog factor, which in my opinion was beyond stupid. Especially after Super proved that a balanced SF can be amazingly good fun.

.......
I didn't say he made it into a **** game, just remarked on what happened with SF2 tournaments after the game was released. As a casual ST player I was as excited for HDR's release as anyone, and it was the first fighting game I took very seriously and tried to get good at.

I was speaking generally, not that you said it was **** but that Ive read people saying much worse . What I highlighted in italics is the main point I was saying about how HDR re-introduced SF for a lot of people. Can you imagine if HDR was only a graphical update and you found yourself against endless streams of O.Sagat, Akuma and Balrog? how many players would have dropped it after a week, how many more wouldnt have put in the extra hours and started looking for ways to understand the game outside of mash srk, jump Hk?

....The game definitely didn't have a chance in Japan, but I'm dubious as to whether it would've taken off if it had - that American tournaments have largely gone back to ST over HDR isn't a great sign tbat tbe game had longevity with ST players, and the level and number of players is much higher in Japan

I would have loved to have seen HDR released in Japan though, just to see if it had stuck. American Tournaments have gone back to ST because that is what the players left playing HDR/ST want, they are familiar with ST and there isnt enough of a player base to counter it with HDR.
Although didnt HDR win a poll in what people wanted at Evo just gone?

They rebalanced ST after 14 years of people playing it, it would have taken time for HDR to become the norm, but the new player base moved on (most to SF4 like me :pac:) while the ST base stayed, playing what they knew inside out, and who can blame them.

You are right though, if they rebalanced/changed 3rd strike, it would be the same problem. BUt thinking about it: I honestly think IF a 4th strike happened. It was done right, updated and character additions etc, and got an arcade release I couldnt see it falling flat and 3rd Strike being played instead.

But anyway feck that, if they are going to do that give me Alpha 4 or neither and keep going with the SF4 or 5 goodness. The amount of FGs coming out worrys me tho, as it could do a rhythm action game buzz and implode from over saturation, leaving once again the core crowd from pre HDR/SF4.... and me of course... unless I find something else shiney to distract me.

Ramza

I don't think a balance with do anything for the game imo. I'm agreeing with Dreddy and we've discussed this before like DooM said, I'm not getting into it again :pac:

I think even if you changed some chars around it wouldn't spark any new interest in the game itself if you don't like it now

Azza

Dreddybajs wrote:

I'm not sure how to explain how balance changes can turn a good game into a bad one, it seems pretty self-evident. Look at AE, even if the twins hadn't been introduced many players would think it's a worse game than Super just due to the damage/hitbox nerfs on a lot of characters.

I don't think you can use AE as an example. It was deliberately made less balanced than super. That must be the only time in history a game developer has done that (outside of a footie game which models team performance on real life team performance), madness in my opinion. Rebalancing a game by any sane developer is an attempt to make the game fair for everyone. They don't always succeed. Sometimes they can make the balance worse or get taken in by flavour of the month complaints. The more characters (i.e viarables) the harder it is to get right.

From what I hear of 3rd Strikes balance it would be very hard to make the balance worse. Players know why certain characters are strong and others weak, so its not like flavour of the month complaints can cloud the issue. Say assuming they only adjusted things like hitboxes, move damage, frame data and ex. properties etc, while leaving the games mechanics the same (parry, juggles) and maintaining the gameplay revolving around high low mix ups and hit confirms into super (I'm not that familar with 3S game so forgive me if I'm wrong on that). I don't see what would be wrong with such an approach. You got the core gameplay intact but you got more viable characters too.

Dreddybajs wrote:

I don't think anyone posited that balance changes to a game would make a good player free, but it definitely might remove their motivation to compete to a certain extent - look at Doom for example, most of Guile's nerfs from Super to AE were damage-related, and in general the game moved from one of strong zoning to a game where rushdown for the most part crushes that strategy. Is it any surprise that he's probably going to have less fun with the game than he did with super?

Sagat and Ryu players probably had less fun in super than in vanilla, while most other players (Guile players included) had more fun. Fei and Makoto players are probably having more fun in AE. When there is balance adjustments made there is always going to be some individual winners and loosers, but its the overall balance adjustment that counts. Unfortunantly the overall balance is worse in AE, in large part due to the twins and to a lesser extent Fei Long who chew up alot of the cast. Its true that their not on the level of vanilla Sagat, but its the manner of the twins play style that really gets to people, they just suffocate their opponents to the point where the feel they have no option but just to guess over and over and over, with the odds firmly in the Twins favour, its just not fun. Even vanilla Sagat with his obnoxious damage and Tiger Knee loops did not stop his opponent from playing their own game that much. They did get a few changes right with AE but they went overboard on nerfing some characters (Guile, Honda, Abel, Cammy's Spiral Arrow, Ryu's c.mk) and made a few flavour of the month concessions (Bison's U2). Not saying the top tier in Super didn't deserve nerfs, just they went too far, particulary with Guile,. Thankfully 2012 is looking like quite an improvement.

I agree that the game was zoning orientated in super with the top characters having strong zoning games. A more balanced gameplay of rush down and zoning would be preferable in my opinion than what we had in Super and have in AE. I don't think their was a massive groundswell of opinion to rebalance SSFIV (although naturally some where complaining the game was getting stale), I think Capcom just wanted to differentiate the Arcade release from the console version.

Anyway I'll stop derailing this thread now.

Sabre0001

Azza wrote: »

Sense

Sense

Sense


Not saying the top tier in Super didn't deserve nerfs, just they went too far, particulary with Guile,. Thankfully 2012 is looking like quite an improvement.

Sense

Sense

Azza's account's been hacked :pac:


I kinda like 3SOE despite missing out on all the experience. I'll play it...but to a mediocre level. However, I am much more likely to watch it now. I've got a little understanding behind me, but it helps when watching videos. And I really do like the parry element. Seeing parries and counter parries and throw techs makes me feel warm inside

Placebo

this is turning into a starwars HANS SHOT FIRST discussion
back on the actual topic, new patch is coming

• Fixes a bug that made it difficult to get into a Ranked Match, especially during times of peak traffic.

• Fixes a bug that could cause players to have very large disconnection percentages (> 100)

• Fixes a bug that could cause characters to become invisible online, or to be displayed with incorrect colors.

• Fixes a bug that sometimes caused Hugo’s combo trial #2 to not detect correctly

• Fixes a bug that permitted an exploit in Trial mode when using "stun" settings

• Fixes some rare crashes

• Improves network stability

• Adds support for additional DLC packs

• Raises the online level cap

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2011/sep/16/sf3-oe-capcom-releases-notes-upcoming-patch/

The directors for this seem dedicated so it was bit silly to think they would have left the game with bugs on it. a LOVE letter to its fans [without spelling mistakes - for real]

Azza

What are you talking about. Han did shoot first!

Placebo

mod thanking another mods offtopic post, TIME TO GO WILD FOLKS
we should all get these shirts, and change randomselect to hanshotfirst

Doctor DooM

Placebo wrote: »

mod thanking another mods offtopic post, TIME TO GO WILD FOLKS

Well, the alternative is I start censoring every single off topic post, would you enjoy that Farz? :P

Sairus

Placebo wrote: »

and change randomselect to hanshotfirst

Could have it so that the banner randomly changes between him or Greedo pulling the trigger first.

Owwmykneecap

Alderaan shot first.

spacenugget

No. really. Han didnt just shoot first. He was the only one to pull a trigger. There is no first, there is only Han.

onion_knight

I've started playing 3s again, and wanna get some games in with good players. If anyone wants to add me, my 360 gamer tag is "j Onion Knight".

JohnMc1

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

Alderaan shot first.

Please don't give Lucas anymore ideas to screw up his DVD releases.

UberPrinny_Baal

Bo-urns to the "Upload match to youtube" function being down for days, and for the game not checking to see if it is until AFTER you've fully encoded a match, which has to be done in real time.

Doctor DooM

The Russians are going after Remy,

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/jul/22/russian.emo