Street Fighter III - Third Strike Online Edition-released

Placebo

Ramza wrote: »

ITT : People missing the argument



Farz what are you on about, tell me then why 3s is at SBO this year :rolleyes:

I'm really not gonna bother with the rest of your post. Mainly because the argument is going in circles and your retorts are appearing to be slightly on the aggressive side. Most people here have clearly given their reasons to why a rebalance would be nice, with facts - see dooms post above about HDR example, where as most of your points are a speculation.

You seem to have this notion of this underground 3S community cult that will live forever. Well let me tell you this, i've been playing 3S before you and when 3S was only available on XBL, i was a regular on that part of SRK. Matchmaking and general drivel talk, strategy section was pretty active.
That part of the forum has been dead for a few years now ! The old threads dont even show until you change the option.

I already explained the reason why it was at SBO and because it has established a strong following [not because its a great game] it has to go through the phase out process. It wasnt at EVO this year, it might not be at SBO next year. 3S arcade cabs still exist in Japanese arcades and in most poor parts of the country, they dont get upgraded, same in pakistan. Some parts still had alpha 3.

Even putting aside the above, for you to disagree that the game in unbalanced is beyond delusional. Finals for 3S have been comprised of Chuns/Yuns/Kens, with the exception of karudo and rx, the rest of the cast dont make it.
Its not like last year at EVO where Justin Wong had a think about whether to go with Balrog or someone else against Daigos Ryu , i was so uneducated and in my 3S mind set that i couldn't understand it.
You need to play other games and appreciate a full game balance.

I've no real interest in a rebalancing as I feel that would split the sf III scene especially from the jap players.

Yes because japenese players are mad for online play?
The game has already been re-released as is, almost 'perfect arcade port' for the XBOX and PS2, it had online play for XBOX. Its was emulated for the dreamcast with online play. Then CPS got emulated and it has online play.

Everyones had their chance. the game is dead, either change it or leave it.

Either way the 3s hype will die after a month or two with some new release like MvC3/SF vs Tekken

Ramza

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Ok. I 'll bite.

First of all I am not trying to be a dick. I am trying to do my job as a mod and show you how discussion can be facilitated and stimulated.

The no true scotsman fallacy is this.


A man from Edinborough is reading a paper. He reads of a man in Brighton who has been caught after a rampage of sexual crimes. He tuts and goes, "no scotsman would ever do that."

The next day he reads of a man from Glasgow who has been caught for crimes many times worse. Rather than confront the challenge to his personal world view he goes "Ah, but a true scotsman would never do that".

Your position (or perhaps you just don't see the opinion in those srk posts I do as someone who spends alot of time dealing with people arguing on the net) is that anyone who's good at 3S will agree with you. If they don't, they are therefore not good at the game and their opinion doesn't matter. It's circular. It's unprovable, and I bet you wrong (you need to prove every single good 3s player agrees with you, those arguing against need only find 1).

You are being intractible. Someone who says "people who don't hold my position are stupid" instead of arguing against the opinion (without using logical fallacies like above) are the very definition of intractible. Perhaps you need to take a step back and check out your position on this. Why is 3S so special that it should be immune to a bit of rebalancing? Do you not think people said that about hyper fighting, championship edition, or super?

Because I can tell you, people DID complain about the balancing in Championship edition. It was a big thing in EGM at the time.

If you want an honest answer to the Azza question- I have never once, in SF4, or SF2 for that matter, felt that I have lost in a way that I could not have overcome by simply becoming better at the game.

Often times playing 3S I have felt I have been beaten by the mechanics of the game itself.

I understand I can get around it but my point is that random guy xyz won't ,he'll just give up. So a rebalanced version of the game for them would be a really good thing. You can have your classic mode and time can tell which one gets played more.

I understand it's your job as mod and I didn't think anyone was acting on personal basis etc. I'm just voicing my opinion and I know at times I can be blunt, as can anyone else

I'm just baffled with the idea of a rebalance. Well that's how I feel, people who love 3s love it for what it is (as do lovers of other games). The idea of a rebalance was just randomly brought up as even in the pic it just says 3s online edition. Don't think a rebalance should be even considered or discussed at all (hence why I posted as I did) It's got nothing to do with being a purist or being a true fan/elitist, it's just common sense to me. I'm a very open minded guy

But in fairness some of the stuff that was posted here in favour of a rebalance came from players who never really sat down with the game a lot and had bad experiences with the game at first. Do you expect anyone to take credibility from someone unexperienced with the game? Makes sense to me but you can label it as any logic you like. Their opinion does matter but let's face facts in that, is it fair? I'm not saying all exp 3s players agree with me, but I, along with what seems like a vast majority, feel the same.

I have argued against the opinion, here, and on SRK. Everyone is entitled to opinions and I took them all on board like I expect mine to be. When the thread got going I got a little annoyed with some of the responses here to be honest. I may have gotten a little self righteous but all in all my motif and arguments stay intact.

Like I said before man, got nothing to do with 3s it's just a matter of principle. ST didn't need a rebalance. In the future, say Alpha gets an online revamp, will people push for a rebalance? I don't know, but why should it be? Same with 3s as is any other game, why should it be touched when it's 10 years plus in the run?

Well the SF2 series you used as examples are different ; they were the new games in the series, WW, CE, HF, etc. New installments. Rebalance 3s is not part four. Your taking a game and changing what's already there. The game system is staying intact. The example you used is not relevant

Like I said before, 3s is not special, it's no different than any other game, so why does it need a rebalance? All principle. It's fine leave it be, if people really wanted to play it they would, rebalances don't really do anything to attract new players (HDR got new graphics but if you showcased the same game ST with same gfx but with changes to someone who never played it at all before, it would be the same thing. There's no standard to compare it to there for that person)

Yeah and that's how I mean, when people lose it's one of the most important experiences as a player, you grow from it. But it feels to me like with 3s you may have jumped the gun their DooM. You said yourself why should you bother with a game that takes ages to learn parries. Not true. Like I said before it's just you jumped in at the deep end. 3s is no different to any other game in that regard, like you listed with your examples

Doctor DooM wrote: »

anyone who's good at 3S will agree with you. If they don't, they are therefore not good at the game and their opinion doesn't matter. It's circular. It's unprovable, and I bet you wrong (you need to prove every single good 3s player agrees with you, those arguing against need only find 1).

Wrong. Got nothing to do with being good. Just having a firm grasp on the game. You can't not play the game and have a firm grasp on it. That isn't how I read the SRK posts at all. I felt that people who don't like the game too much or never played it were pushing for a rebalance and giving ideas. No logic behind this. It's a case where I can clearly say someone's opinion is irrelevant because it is completely based on something they never experienced at all or barely even. It's like me asking you what a drink or food is like and you reply I never tried it, but I want to add the following changes. It's contradictory

It's just I personally feel the same. A rebalance is not needed and will do nothing trust me. Really silly. Take it from someone/people who properly play the game

You are being intractible. Someone who says "people who don't hold my position are stupid" instead of arguing against the opinion

But I am arguing against it. And if you read just above there, like I said I think this is a case where there's a hierarchy on whose opinion gets more credibility. If you wanted to know what people didn't like about a game you'd obviously ask those who play it? Or am I wrong? I'm not wrong. So I don't see how intractible is honestly fair when this is really an exception

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I have never once, in SF4, or SF2 for that matter, felt that I have lost in a way that I could not have overcome by simply becoming better at the game

Why is 3s any different? It's not. You talk about makoto ToD and Urien unblockables, parrying etc but let's be fair, taking away all that, 3s is no different. It's a fighting game and takes practice and patience. I feel that everyone feels like this and maybe dislikes it for that reason. If you do then fair enough and that's your opinion. But don't use different standards for a different game, don't push for a rebalance of a game you don't play. Is it not fair for me to assume/say that?

DooM the last part of your post is odd. That's what I was saying along.

Random guy xyz you use as an example has obviously played the game for the first time and has got tossed about. Obviously it's dis hearting but 3s is that kind of game, as are a lot of games, you can't play people who are miles better than you. When I first played Dreddy I used to not play properly and just **** about. He actually pushed with it and expressed that he felt I was too good/experienced to learn from. I started using characters I didn't know too well and also I was just learning stick, so I felt like I evened the playing field a bit. He showed, over time, an increasing interest in the game and also he has gotten a lot better.

Do you see how I mean. Why should we make a rebalance for guys like mr xyz when they don't know the game or have had a total of 15 minutes with the game playing someone who is tonnes better than them? It's flawed logic to me. Mr xyz wont give up if he plays people on his own level and really wants to get into the game. Wanting to make a rebalance, like you so say in your last post, for people who have given up on the game upon losing, is silly. Mr xyz is an idiot if he enjoys the game but gives up like that.

Placebo wrote: »

You seem to have this notion of this underground 3S community cult that will live forever. Well let me tell you this, i've been playing 3S before you and when 3S was only available on XBL, i was a regular on that part of SRK. Matchmaking and general drivel talk, strategy section was pretty active.
That part of the forum has been dead for a few years now ! The old threads dont even show until you change the option.

When did I mention this underground 3s community? Umm, so was I farz :pac:? I first got 3s when I was 13 and used to hate that ****ty XBL matchmaking. I remember posting on EU matchmaking thread with my brother's gamertag and that's how I levelled up, by watching videos and reading strat section. I was a regular too so remember we are on the same wavelength here

Placebo wrote: »

Even putting aside the above, for you to disagree that the game in unbalanced is beyond delusional. Finals for 3S have been comprised of Chuns/Yuns/Kens, with the exception of karudo and rx, the rest of the cast dont make it.

I disagree. 3s is not broken. No game established is broken. No game is perfect but none is broken. There are literally tonnes of jap players who use the characters they like and even the low tier and rip **** up

Who was on RX's team 2 years ago at SBO? Roshihikari and Sugiyama. Roshi plays Yang and Sugiyama plays Necro. Take's team also made it to grand finals, and they were beasts. Take is a Remy player. There's loads more example of teams and characters other than Chun/Yun/Ken through the years and even today. That Chun/Yun/Ken argument is baby talk. It's easy to say that though, but then not put the work in yourself. You can use any character and win, it just so happens these characters are popular. I think people are angry with those matchups and just use it as a cop out. The character usage in 3s is great because you have players who use low-mid tier because they appeal to them as characters not because of some numbers on a piece of paper. And they do just as well as other players because the work is put in.

http://shoryuken.com/f160/street-fighter-3rd-strike-online-edition-245026/index21.html#post9259170

This is just an example. Anyone can use any character and do well. And there's living proof in the top players who use said characters. Just need to look harder manz

Owwmykneecap

Placebo wrote: »

Yes because japenese players are mad for online play?
The game has already been re-released as is, almost 'perfect arcade port' for the XBOX and PS2, it had online play for XBOX. Its was emulated for the dreamcast with online play. Then CPS got emulated and it has online play.

Everyones had their chance. the game is dead, either change it or leave it.

Either way the 3s hype will die after a month or two with some new release like MvC3/SF vs Tekken

Nonsense.

SFIII came out at the death knell of arcades, and before online play was popular.

So playing 3rdstrike online on the original xbox (1 tenth the sales of ps2) over broadband in 2004, When the vast majority of the country was still on dial up, or playing it on the legally dubious and outside the scene, unheard of ggpo and 2df for the last few years = everyone having their chance?

A straight port onto 360 would see a massive player base boost, whether it is completely remade or not.


And as for the jap players, the fact HDRemix simply doesn't even exist over there, does cause problems regarding it's use in tournaments, when ST players in europe and the US constantly argue over which should be played in tournaments. The lack of a decent version of ST since the dreamcast pushes in favour of hdr.

Ramza

Yeah kneecap I agree. Also remember I am not denying the fact 3s is dead or w/e farz. I'm just arguing against a rebalance. When does that factor into it?

K.O.Kiki

I have enough experience to argue FOR a slight rebalance of 3S, but I'm not going to argue any points here.

And what's "enough" experience, anyway? I can get 2 year's experience within 8 months if I train obsessively enough.

Ramza

Just a quick summary of my arguments in this thread and as a whole since I don't want to post anymore. Feel I've voiced my opinion enough

I am against a total rebalance. Like I stated in my first post, wouldn't mind if a few things got changed, nothing drastic though. I feel Capcom wont just change one or two things because then they will probably be annoyed to change more

Main opposition I can see for a rebalance is coming from people with little exp in the game or who, no offence to anyone at all, don't play it on a higher level. Nothing wrong with this but like I said to DooM, people are misjudging the game based on first experiences playing with players who are on a higher level. Today anyone can go and pick up the game and learn it. GGPO is an alright standard and is completely viable to a nice majority of people. The resources are all there and that's how I did it back with kaillera/xbl

Some of the arguments, esp. based on the skill level in 3s of who they were coming from, I disregard as a bit silly. Saying Urien UBs and Makoto Abare juggles are broken is a little stupid considering said people admitted they are not exp. with the game and played it a few times only against players of a high calibre. I don't see the logic. Urien is the UB, Makoto is the karakusa/abare juggles. Want to remove Ryu's fireballs too? Do you see the logic of what you are saying and where it is coming from?

Am not putting down people but in this context it's just downright mad.

That being said, I'm not saying every single player on a high level wants to keep the game intact. Upon reading SRK it seems everyone I know who is decent at the game and has been playing a while has same idea as me/I the same as them. Everyone who plays the game deserves a say. I'm not being an elitist but when considering a remake the players who are into the game the most deserve the priority. Which is why those who don't play and push for a rebalance just makes me facepalm. Personally there is no need. If you come along new to the game and pick up normal 3s on PSN/XBL how would you know the difference? It's silly and ruining it for those who already play it. I'm sure there are other players who are maybe not content with everything, and that's alright. I myself dislike a few things, but I can play through it. If I'm a better player than you I'm going to win. This mindset is not really around anymore. Ultimately every player is entitled to his/her opinion. If I feel it's moronic or a silly thing to rebalance 3s then I do. Just my opinion

An entire rebalance is imo not needed

Orim

I haven't had my say. I know you've all been waiting.

Any kind of update isn't necessary as it will only affect the top level players who are already accept the game for what it is (This is the nature of fighting game rebalance, it's all done around high level play). 3S, more than most games really highlights the skill difference between opponents and if you are playing someone who is better than you, you will get mashed up every time.

I still don't the game but I will probably buy it cause I'm like that.

Also I've read this thread for a while and I have no idea what the argument is any more.

I was looking at the SBO winners list and it is very Ken/Yun/Chun focused but that is a very small sample. I also noticed that SF2 is very under represented but that a GG is there every year. I'm rambling but I'm sure I bring up some interesting points.

Ramza

In all my years of play the Ken/Yun/Chun argument is what I never got. I personally never had too bad problems with these characters. IMO it's just something to blame. Just because a small majority of finalist players use said characters doesn't mean it's tier whoring or w/e. It's just how it goes. Said players are all extremely skilled. There are equally the same amount of players, like the ones I listed before and loads more, who use other characters and are just as good .It really shows that player is what matters. Tiers mean nothing. I agree with you Orim

Rebalances are trouble and make no sense (for games that CLEARLY don't need them)

Doctor DooM

Ramza wrote: »

(for games that CLEARLY don't need them)

The crux of the argument is Ramza, you are not the person who decides what is clear or not. That's the whole point of the no true scotsman. You are unconciously shifting the goal posts to suit yourself. You can't be argued with because your argument is that you are automatically right because you've decided your opinion is automatically right and representative of all the right people.



It's clear to you, but any value you put on yourself is purely arbitrary. Does playing the game alot mean your opinion is the correct one? If so, what is the magic metric after which ones opinion becomes valid?

Remember- once again- people complained when world warrior was rebalanced for champ edition. Remember that alot of people literally considered world warrior a perfect game on its release, often scoring marks of 99 or 100% in gaming magazines. I have never heard people defending 3S the way people used to do SF2 upon it's release.

You are not actually giving an argument that's not been heard before.

That's straight up true fan syndrome right there.


"My point of view is the correct one, and if you disagree with me you're not a true fan, and thus not worthy of my time."

That's not too far off "thinking 3S needs balancing is moronic, everyone who has experience with the game will think so".

Again, please keep in mind I am not saying you are wrong, it's just thats a pretty bad point of discussion there, and it's why you're appearing aggressive to people.

Placebo

Ramza wrote:

Umm, so was I farz ? I first got 3s when I was 13 and used to hate that ****ty XBL matchmaking. I remember posting on EU matchmaking thread with my brother's gamertag and that's how I levelled up, by watching videos and reading strat section. I was a regular too so remember we are on the same wavelength here

Going by your arguments hypothesis.

http://prntscr.com/mz74
A PlayStation 2 version of 3rd Strike was released in 2004
An Xbox version of 3rd Strike was released in 2005

I may have lost practice, but i have been playing the game longer than you.
Your justification of people without experience having no legitimate say is wrong but to go even further, here's me and my 'experience' saying it needs a re balance.
Just because you dont get much challenge from top tier characters cause you play ONLINE with EUROPEAN players most of the time, doesnt mean the rest of the world, mostly in USA AND JAPAN are having the same diluted experience as you.
The tournament results/finals/videos say it all. These are facts not even experience.

I'm not here to change your mind or anyones, i've had my say.
Think the thread needs to be closed. Or a grudge match needs to take place

K.O.Kiki

Grudge match?

You mean MONEY MATCH!!

Fighters, engage!

UberPrinny_Baal

I have to get in on this discussion, not because I have any strong opinions on 3S one way or the other (I don't), but because the way Ramza thinks seems to be exactly the opposite of the way I think, and I'm fascinated enough to want to understand it better.

Hey Ramza! You're a cool guy, and I have no beef with you, and I'll totally teach you Flash Duel the next time I see you, but we have to get one thing out of the way first:

Ramza wrote:

People see elitism because they want to see it.

The Dictionary wrote:

Elitism is the belief or attitude that some individuals, who supposedly form an elite — a select group of people with .... specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes — are those whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight

People can't interpret Elitism.
It's a word, it has a meaning, and this is it.
You've said repeatedly that the opinions of people who haven't spent what you deem to be a necessary amount of time on 3S don't matter.

Whether you're right or wrong is irrelevant, but you're absolutely being Elitist.

Moving on to the bones of it though....

What fascinates me is our seemly opposite view of things like this.
If a game company was to say to me "Hey dawg! We is remaking your favourist game EVA! And we gonna put some new stuff in there, and change up some of the old stuff!"
I would say "That's awesome! There is a chance, however slight, you might just make my favourite ever game better! If you mess it up, that doesn't matter either, because I still have the original."

You seem to be of the opinion though, that if Capcom made "3S HDR", not only would this be terrible, but it would somehow ruin the original 3S.

This is what I don't understand.

3S is stand alone. It always will be. It can't be changed.
A remixed mode wouldn't appeal to you obviously, so you could just play the classic mode. What I don't get is why its inclusion as a separate optional mode would make you so angry?
You've said in this topic already that you consider HDR to be "Filth".
This AMAZES me.
I think HDR as a package is superb.

You get classic ST released on modern consoles with decent online, which has revived the ST scene like nobody's business.

You also get bonuses:

• You get a remixed mode with changes applied in certain areas (and bugs fixed) that in the designer's opinion makes it more fun.
  
• You get new character art!
  
• You get new music!
  
• You get the ability to make gameplay changes on a single basis, like making Dhalsim's super work as a reversal. You're essentially allowed to "house rule" in and out little parts of the game to make it the play experience YOU want to have.
  
• And if you don't like any of this new stuff, you can just turn it all off!

I wouldn't have ever even played ST if not for HDR.

BUT you think it's "filth"?

This is what I just don't understand.

The way I see it, a release of 3S that changes NOTHING won't even appeal to the hardcore 3S crowd, because they can already play the game (free) on GGPO (for free) with an established community of equally skilled players.

Would you really pay money for a game identical to what you already have, to play it on an online service that costs money to use (which could be worse than the one you're already using)?

If so, why?

Azza

The whole HDR is filth is abit bizzare.

As UberPrinny_Baal said nearly all the changes in the game are optional and can be turned off and on at will. Most moves if not all that had there inputs changed still retain the old input commands as well. I for one had difficulty with grapplers command grabs in ST but the new inputs help me alot in HDR on the rare occasion that I play one of them in HDR.

I mean some people say the game feels different and that the movement/speed has changed but I reckon its a mind trick to do with the revamped graphics.

The new graphics are a matter of personal taste. Even if you hate them I'm sure that alone would not be enough to warrant calling game filth.

Apparantly there is a few bugs, (more so on the PS3 version which Sirlin himself admits) nothing major.

As for balance I have heard no major complaints about the game. Nothing worse than what was already in ST.

Blinn

Personally I hope they remix the music. Jazzy NYC 99 is nice and all but let's get a 2010 version with real instruments instead of casio keyboard synths.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSzPbO9DFcg

Doctor DooM

Blinn wrote: »

Personally I hope they remix the music. Jazzy NYC 99 is nice and all but let's get a 2010 version with real instruments instead of casio keyboard synths.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSzPbO9DFcg

I think of all the stuff in 3S if you changed the music that would definitely annoy the crap out of the most people

Ian McTetly

All this 3s talk has got me kinda hype tbh, I'm gonna bounce on GGPO here if anyone wants a few games?

I really hope they don't change the music! My mind has already been blown, Capcom don't need to try and 1up themselves!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOrAH0P2zPM

Blinn

Ian McTetly wrote: »

All this 3s talk has got me kinda hype tbh, I'm gonna bounce on GGPO here if anyone wants a few games?

Yes, let's do it! I'm blinnsrj on ggpo. You should get on irc too for easier organisation of games.

Scavenger XIII

I believe I'm the one who first popped in wondering if there would be a rebalance, yes I think it's a good idea, yes I've played a fair bit of 3S (not THAT much like, but I know my way around it well enough) and no I couldn't be bothered arguing with Ramzas absolute brick wall stance on the matter.

animaX

Not trying to bring back the rebalance argument (i think it should be laid to rest now lads) but i thought it a real shame that Tin didn't pick his favourite character at the Stunfest final vs Tokido. Instead he went with ken for obvious reasons.

A-Trak

animaX wrote: »

i thought it a real shame Top Tier Tastic that Tin didn't pick his favourite character at the Stunfest final vs Tokido. Instead he went with ken for obvious reasons.

Fixed your post, as it was lies.

K.O.Kiki

I'm starting to wonder if SRK just rubbed off on Ramza too much.

I'm one of those guys who hates QCF x3 for Rekkas. I think SF4 did it right for Abel -- you do one QCF, then you hold/press F and press Punch/Kick for the last 2 hits. It's simple & elegant.
I suggested this.

They went mad, and accused me of fostering a Capcom mindset where suddenly all Supers were QCF~F+ a single button.

Trying to get anything through their hardcorier-than-though mindsets is starting to feel like an exercise in futility.
ANY change is instantly pounced on with cries of it breaking the ENTIRE (meta?) game.

Ramza

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

Hey Ramza! You're a cool guy, and I have no beef with you


you're absolutely being Elitist.


What fascinates me is our seemly opposite view of things like this.
If a game company was to say to me "Hey dawg! We is remaking your favourist game EVA! And we gonna put some new stuff in there, and change up some of the old stuff!"
I would say "That's awesome! There is a chance, however slight, you might just make my favourite ever game better! If you mess it up, that doesn't matter either, because I still have the original."


This is what I don't understand.

3S is stand alone. It always will be. It can't be changed.
A remixed mode wouldn't appeal to you obviously, so you could just play the classic mode. What I don't get is why its inclusion as a separate optional mode would make you so angry?

The way I see it, a release of 3S that changes NOTHING won't even appeal to the hardcore 3S crowd, because they can already play the game (free) on GGPO (for free) with an established community of equally skilled players.

Would you really pay money for a game identical to what you already have, to play it on an online service that costs money to use (which could be worse than the one you're already using)?

Dave I have no beef with anyone on these forums at all, I'm sure everyone knows and especially DooM since he is a mod that debates don't cross personal boundaries. I am merely arguing my opinion and never would I want anyone to believe that anyone was taking it personally! You are all bang on lads in person

Maybe I am being elitist because of my sheer love for FGs/this game, but that's how I'm making my stand

Well it's very simple, to me anyway (and to a lot of others) ; Capcom want to remake 3s? My answer is why? One simple word ; why? Before anyone plays the "afraid of change" card please, spare me :pac: Why did ST need HDR? No game is perfect but I'll be damned if 3s or ST or any other game is broken! 3s as a whole does not need a complete remake. As I said before there are a few things that I wouldn't mind seeing changed, but all in all if not I don't mind at all. I know my matchups well enough to work around said things (re check my first post for said things)

It's a matter of principle to me ; why fix what's not broken? I don't agree with the "you still have the original" idea. There should always be one standard. 3s HDR is not needed. Making two games will ultimately **** everything up for a lot of reason, generally 3s HDR is not 3S, it will be a different game altogether. You'll then have a clique, like you can see now, of experiences players who prefer original 3s and new players who like HDR 3S. My question is why can't everyone just play original 3s as it's been around ten years now and there's no reason not to. It's just madness to me. Also for tournaments too, people will argue over which version to use. It just annoys me

A lot of top players or hardcore players don't use GGPO a lot, or even don't like it. I know online is online and PSN/XBL wont be any different. Some people also have trouble setting up GGPO and hardware specs and ports etc are all big factors. IMHO releasing 3s with new modes/online system will attract new players, trust me. And yes, I know I, and personally loads others who play on GGPO a lot would pay for this game! Because if Capcom make a new standard with new modes/better online, and here is the key part arcade perfect, you will attract old players and also new. You don't need a rebalance to attract new players, how would they know the difference

Like kneecap was saying, and I agree, xbox 3s back in the day was crap with xbl, barely any players and no one owned the game compared to the ps2 version. Can you honestly say that, with the xbox port which was crap, along with GGPO that everyone has really gotten their chance? In no way am I trying to deny the game is dead, not at all! But releasing on PSN/XBL will do only good things

Scavenger XIII wrote: »

I couldn't be bothered arguing with Ramzas absolute brick wall stance on the matter.

That's your choice, if you don't want to argue your own opinion it's OK. I'm just against the idea but like I said I am open minded person

animaX wrote: »

Instead he went with ken for obvious reasons.

Ken is Tin's main in 3s, contrary to popular belief. Tin could of done just as well with his Ibuki imo.
Ken is not a counterpick to Chun, but yes, it could of happened that Tin would of felt more confident with his Ken against Tokido. That said, I know Tin is a good enough player to have raped Tokido with the right matchup knowledge (could of used Ken also because maybe he was shady on the Chun match). Using this one example to show proof of Ken/Yun/Chun syndrome is silly imo. I'm not denying there are a lot of Ken/Yun/Chun but there is just as much players of other characters too and if you can win you can win

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

I'm starting to wonder if SRK just rubbed off on Ramza too much

LOL! I just feel the same way, I actually checked SRK to see what the mentality was like over thee, after arguing here for a bit, and saw some guys I used to play with and people I just knew. 90% felt the same so I found it interesting. Got nothing to do with SRK rubbing off on me I am just voicing my opinion

No offence Kiki but that's silly not being able to do 3xQCF. This is the mentality I don't like. And as far as changing one or two things I would be all for it (as I said before). It's just a total rebalance I don't get. The game is fine and doesn't need a complete change. What is it with people not wanting to just play the game as is? Do you honestly think there would of been some backlash from the playerbase if 3s was broken or had any kind of huge issues people were unhappy with? The idea of making a rebalance to appeal to new players doesn't make any sense. Or the idea of making a rebalance because the game is old. Huh? Is there a certain amount of time that has to elapse before a game can be ****ed with?

K.O.Kiki

I probably worded it wrong before -- I *CAN* do QCFx3 -- I just *HATE* doing it when it's been shown that QCF, F, F works just as well.

GorySnake

As for Ken/Yun/Chun syndrome, that just seems to be how America plays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGh4ZU4H5Hk

Ramza

Placebo wrote: »

full daigo parry

You still salty? :pac:

You just have a **** connection farz

Dreddybajs

animaX wrote: »

Not trying to bring back the rebalance argument (i think it should be laid to rest now lads) but i thought it a real shame that Tin didn't pick his favourite character at the Stunfest final vs Tokido. Instead he went with ken for obvious reasons.

This is nonsense, he plays Ken in every solo tournament, he plays Ibuki in every team tournament.

Scavenger XIII

I'm going to try and avoid re-igniting this whole thing too much, but when did anyone say the game needed a "complete remake" as you put it?

You said a few small changes would be acceptable, right? Surely that still falls under the category of "balance changes"?

Subtle tweaks to top tiers godly supers (like those you yourself suggested), everyone's (somewhat) happy, Bob is your fathers brother, we can all go home. :pac:

Ramza

I don't mind at all a nerf to top tier supers but you have to remember farz was listing that Urien, Makoto were broken and need fixing and also DooM had the wrong idea about the game based upon playing it for 15 mins

I disagree with the whole buff low tier as it wont make a difference tbh. IMO Capcom wont opt for a few canges they will want a whole re balance if they are goign to do it

I think it is very sensible but imo only the people who play the game deserve a say if there is a rebalance. No offence to anyone but in this case it makes sense to me. I don't take credibility from other people who are not exp with the game. Urien and Makoto broken? Needing to know how to parry? All nonsense

K.O.Kiki

Doom played this game in arcades before you even knew your hadoukens from your shoryukens

Placebo

Ramza wrote: »

You still salty? :pac:

You just have a **** connection farz

posted on page 5
are you revising the thread ? i feel a thesis coming up. :pac:

I think it is very sensible but imo only the people who play the game deserve a say if there is a rebalance

so only people who make movies have a say on sequels and remakes?
only people who are programmers have a say on how the next OS should operate ?

i can draw a hundred analogies, why do you keep bringing this silly point up