Street Fighter III - Third Strike Online Edition-released

Dreddybajs

Voa wrote: »

Hugo's SA1 weeps.


EINS

VIE
DRIE

Hugo can hit confirm to SA3

GorySnake

Dreddybajs wrote: »

Hugo can hit confirm to SA3

It's Gigas or GTFO.

Dreddybajs

Yeah, I agree, just saying that the character can do it if that's what you're into. :pac:

chopperbyrne

Fairly positive Remy can cancel to his Super from lots of moves too and hit-confirm into them.

Azza

Sisko wrote:

I'm highly skeptical of any re-balancing. But if it does happen , we will pretty much see the HDR v ST scenario repeat itself.

Ramza's getting a lot of heat , partly cause of how he's making his points but look at all the people on here who still like ST over HDR.

HDR is disliked by a few (mainly Ramza actually :P) purely because it exists. The very fact that changes where made is enough for some people to dislike the game, regardless of the merits of those changes.

The people who dislike the game so far have yet to give a legit reason for disliking it.

Netcode is fine, better than SF 4's.
Well designed button configuration and blind select options.
Yes there is glitches (more so on the PS3 version) but ST had glitches too yet these are somehow acceptable.
Akuma is still broke (but broke for different reasons)
Widescreen is optional.
Character sprites are optional.
New music is optional.
New input commands are optional and they serve the purpose of lowering the execution barrier ( I could never SPD in ST but I can in HDR) and allowing people with poorer dexterity to access the tactics meta game.

As for the balance changes asides from Akuma in which case we are no worse off. I've never read or heard of a specific balance change in HDR that made the game significantly more imbalanced than ST. Most of the changes where quite small.

Its fair enough if you don't like the graphics style but thats subjective to ones opinion. I would not call a game bad purely because I dislike the art style which I know others may like.

I know 3S balance is mean't to be worse than ST or SF 4 going be the general views of the worlds fighting game communities. On those grounds I would have no issues with 3S being rebalanced. I don't play the game though so I would not even begin to suggest balance changes.

Voa

Dreddybajs wrote: »

Hugo can hit confirm to SA3

I like my hitconfirm - delay - 720.
BlazBlue has spoiled me.

Doctor DooM

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Fairly positive Remy can cancel to his Super from lots of moves too and hit-confirm into them.

Remy can definitely cancel from emo boom into super emo boom justice light ring of justice, I got it on my very first try.


against Kiki, as it happens

Ramza

I don't like HDR but it's better than nothing. I dislike it just for the fact it exists, yes. Not because I consider myself a great ST player (because im not), but just because I don't feel it was necessary

Lowering the bar seems silly to me, I still don't get the whole I could never do [x] thing.

Azza

Ramza wrote:

Lowering the bar seems silly to me, I still don't get the whole I could never do [x] thing.

Not everyone starts out equal when it comes to being able to perform difficult commands. It comes more naturally to some than others. But alot of people have difficulty with them and its something that takes a long time and alot of effort to overcome. My friend for example who plays many different games and is quite good at gaming in general, simply can't not consistently throw a fireball in SF4 and he tried for like 30 minutes and he got maybe 2 fireballs out. Many don't see the time needed to learn this as worthwhile or have the right mindset to sit down and practise enough, so they give up. The never get to the tactical meta game and all the mind games which are the more fun part because they got stuck behind a barrier of execution. That's the reason why some commands where easier but as its been said before the purists don't have to use it.

I mean they did the very same thing in 3S, they made the parry window much easier than 2nd Impact. Yet you don't complain about that?

And here is Sirlins rational for making commands easier.

There are some players who wrongly believe that this "dumbs the game down." Actually, the opposite is true. Experts can perform special moves already, so the changes listed below have very little effect on them. Experts will care about actual balance changes such as hitboxes, recovery times, new properties for some moves, and so on. Making special moves easier, however, just allows everyone else to play the "real" game without needing to develop hundreds of hours of muscle memory just to perform the moves. It's actually sad to hear that some players think that their ability to execute a 360 command throw is why they are good, as opposed to the actual strategy of getting close enough to the opponent with Zangief to land the throw.

Another wrong-headed comment I often get is that easier controls don't leave enough skills in the game to separate good and bad players. The statement is absurd. Easier special moves don't change the strategic depth of the game at all (and the actual balance changes in HD Remix hopefully increase the strategic depth). Furthermore, there's no shortage of nuance for experts. Does Cammy's dragon punch beat Fei Longs? It depends on exactly who did it first, which means that 1/60th of a second timing is just as important as ever. So is positioning, spacing, the difficulty of performing combos, and the skill of reading the mind of the opponent.

Ramza

I see what you mean. As far as the second impact thingie goes I didn't play the game seriously/hadn't played it before I played 3s. I had no universal standard. But again that was a sequel which came like, what, a year after? I'm talking 11 years here and also this underlines my point about having no standard of comparison

I mean like I said on the first page or so, a balance to some things would be v nice but I was afraid if Capcom wanted to change one or two things they would rather go all out if they were to do so. I was against that motive. The article linked by Kiki somewhat envisions what I mean/tried to articulate ; change the game in places cleverly and make it more accessible, and fix some of the dumb ****, but still make it 3s. Cater for everyone

Azza

Ramza wrote:

I'm talking 11 years here and also this underlines my point about having no standard of comparison

What does it matter how long apart a game gets updated. Starcraft and Counter Strike got changes many years after its release.

Ramza wrote:

I mean like I said on the first page or so, a balance to some things would be v nice but I was afraid if Capcom wanted to change one or two things they would rather go all out if they were to do so. I was against that motive

Your sounding very unspecific here. What are you afraid they will do exactly?

K.O.Kiki

Ramza's afraid that Capcom will take out the Urien unblockables.

Just like they did in... oh... the FIRST REVISION (2nd version) of the arcade board, and the DC port.

Ramza

I thought they would take the whole game, and do stupid stuff. add easier inputs (to a game which is already very lenient), take away UB, (which they tried already), remove hitconfirms, remove certain combos?, **** with hitboxes, in a bad way, etc. Just bad decisions. I'll admit most of the opposition from me is from the motives put forward by the people in the thread, (which some are funny/don't make sense) but some are very clever and I agree with. It's just I feared it would be 3s OE that wouldn't be "3S", because that is the goal

Well SC is different than this example. SF2 had all its updates/sequels WW-CE-HF-S-ST. These were quite close together and there wouldn't of been any objections or reasons for objections because it's not in the same context/time reference. Here you have NG-2I-3S, but 3s is the last in the series. Good. So 11 years on, they wanna change stuff? It's not the same as a sequel. Of course, in 2000 if a supposed 4th strike or something was announced people would not have any objections or backlash since it would of been normal. Adding new char/game changes etc. It was actually you who brought up the point to me one time. It's just since the sf3 series is finaled on 3s it seems weird to consider it in the same context as your example

But I'm all for OE

Placebo

From going to SvB it seemed like the game was on a thread, no official support, b/w tv's, half of the tournament on dreamcast ? small group on entrants. A re-release with changes that caters for a bigger audience will bring the game back to life.

Ramza wrote: »

remove hitconfirmsl

Thats never gonna happen to be honest, i dont think they will invest that much time and effort on this 're-release'.

Ramza

Yeah the game is done for and if Capcom wanna try and make an OE to see what will happen I say go for it. Will be nice to get the game some recognition and get new players etc. If not, it's still all good.

The game was all run on PS2, some guys had ps modded agetecs

Orim

Ramza wrote: »

Well SC is different than this example. SF2 had all its updates/sequels WW-CE-HF-S-ST. These were quite close together and there wouldn't of been any objections or reasons for objections because it's not in the same context/time reference.

I'd rather not get too involved in this conversations but there was massive objections to each and every SF2 update.

ST provoking the biggest reaction. I do believe that there was a general spilt of a lot communities and a lot of people declared that supers destroyed fighting games.

Ramza

Well SF2 may not be the best example so (was not around XD) but you can see my point and what I'm getting at. IMO it's just a little odd to come along and mess with an est. game. But I could be wrong. Just my opinion.

Azza

No one knows yet if they are rebalancing the game.

I'm sure if they do it will be an measured approach where most of the balance changes are going be made on the advice of pro players who can tell the difference between true imbalance and what isn't imbalanced (what newcomers to the game might mistake for imbalance because they can't counter it). I remember Doom mentioning combo's that took full health or near full health or big damage juggle combo's. These aren't imbalanced. Capcom know this and I can't imagine they will be removed. Damage tweaked maybe but removed I doubt it.

In ST there was useless moves that saw no use because of whatever reason, (crap hitbox, too slow, rubbish recovery) and some of those where fixed (like Guiles HK Flash Kick).

I'm sure there is moves like that in 3S as well. I see no harm in changing moves like that. Obviously balance has to be kept in mind when changing them.

Braindead stuff and loops existed in ST and again in HDR they attempted to fix it. Like Chun Li's neck breaker 50/50 on wake up gimmick. Honda's Ochoi Throw corner trap, Balrogs Dash Punch into Headbutt. Vega's Izuna Attack on waking opponents. These where not hard to do but extremely hard to counter and needed to be changed so they where less fool proof. If stuff exists like that in 3S I'm sure thats what Capcom will look at addressing.

On the time issue again, so what that a lot of time has past. Its not a sequel its an update. Just because your use to a certain version doesn't mean its definitive version. If 3S OE is rebalanced then at least give the changes a fair chance and don't be close minded about it just for purity's sake.

But really the real reason you don't want change in 3S, is your terrified they will add in M.Bison as a new character and you won't be able to handle the Psycho Power!.

Ramza

Greeat post Azza, this is what I was trying to articulate the whole time

what newcomers to the game might mistake for imbalance because they can't counter it

I was saying it/trying to in the thread and say that only the top pro players or experiences players should get the input. Like you said.

Also, like I said at start 3s is not perfect but its not broken either, nor was ST. It has some stupid stuff in it. Like I said I would happily accept these changes. And yeah, as far as the sequel thing goes, I guess it is just an update. It's not like it's not going to be 3s.

K.O.Kiki

I really would like to see those NG/2I backgrounds though.
And a widescreen mode.

Ramza

YES!

3s GFX are pretty bad [super flash, BGs], would love that as an option

Sisko

Azza wrote: »

HDR is disliked by a few (mainly Ramza actually :P) purely because it exists. The very fact that changes where made is enough for some people to dislike the game, regardless of the merits of those changes.

The people who dislike the game so far have yet to give a legit reason for disliking it.

Netcode is fine, better than SF 4's.
Well designed button configuration and blind select options.
Yes there is glitches (more so on the PS3 version) but ST had glitches too yet these are somehow acceptable.
Akuma is still broke (but broke for different reasons)
Widescreen is optional.
Character sprites are optional.
New music is optional.
New input commands are optional and they serve the purpose of lowering the execution barrier ( I could never SPD in ST but I can in HDR) and allowing people with poorer dexterity to access the tactics meta game.

As for the balance changes asides from Akuma in which case we are no worse off. I've never read or heard of a specific balance change in HDR that made the game significantly more imbalanced than ST. Most of the changes where quite small.

Its fair enough if you don't like the graphics style but thats subjective to ones opinion. I would not call a game bad purely because I dislike the art style which I know others may like.

I know 3S balance is mean't to be worse than ST or SF 4 going be the general views of the worlds fighting game communities. On those grounds I would have no issues with 3S being rebalanced. I don't play the game though so I would not even begin to suggest balance changes.

Yeah this is my view also, yet if we were to host an SF2 tourney, it wouldn't be HDR it'd be ST that's played. Which I never really got but meh.


Anyway yeah back to 3s it would be sweet if you could have all the stages from the other sf3 games too yeah that's a great idea!

Azza

Its because not too many people play the game and those that dislike it are more vocal than those that like it.

Owwmykneecap

I've been thinking about this recently too.

Frankly as long as HDR is de facto tournament Standard, I'm not playing tourneys in ST.

Orim

We have not just held ST tourneys because of people being more vocal about ST. People were more vocal on the issue of ST over AE not HDR.

There is also the fact that ST is easier to run in that there is multiple ways to run it as opposed to one way to run HDR. I mean the first ST tournament the toss up was between AE and ST becuase we simple couldn't run HDR as Marvel was running. That's why the double elim at the last DoC was ST as I knew that future tournaments would likely be held as ST.

animaX

Bring back the multi-level stages!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N4DGpn--4I#t=2m0s

GorySnake

2I had such chunky sounds with each hit. Ryu's voice actor was terrible though.

Ramza

Looking back over the whole ST vs AE it was basically just the fact you could not tech the older characters throws when using ST characters, which is lame and by all means could easily affect wins and losses, thus not making it 100% fair. Some people have ST arcade on Laptops, but by all means AE is still fine, I'd still be confident enough even without my throw soften ability :pac:

I'm not comfortable playing on HDR but practically if it is the best choice then I don't mind playing. I'd just prefer one version over the other but I'm just one person. HDR is better than nothing to me. Playing on classic is fine on HDR, it's just the game looks horribly ugly and chunky in new GFX mode.

At the end of the day it's just what you can get your hands on. I don't think anyone would object to playing arcade ST over HDR if the circumstances allowed? It's just what's easier I guess

D4RK ONION

I really never got the hate for the HDR graphics. I love the udon art myself. The mangas are excellent.

Ramza

It's just me I think, and maybe a few other people who play the game, they look out of place and chunky. Don't suit it at all IMO