Do I need a license to own a .22 handgun?

CaraFawn

Hi guys,

Been a few years I have been out of handgun ownership...

Anyway, I'd like to acquire one and go back to do some shooting.

A .22 will do really, I am not looking for something big.

I am confused with this because it is "only" a .22, is it the same process as bigger handguns, where I have to write to the SP etc.?

Or can I just go ahead and buy one?

Also which one would you recommend, if any. I like Walther guns, had a P88 9mm few years back. I see they do the P22 now, I like the compact format. Any good?

Cheers

Tackleberrywho

CaraFawn wrote: »

Hi guys,(yes you need an unrestricted licence if mag holds 5 rounds max for a .22lr pistol

Been a few years I have been out of handgun ownership...

Anyway, I'd like to acquire one and go back to do some shooting.

A .22 will do really, I am not looking for something big.

I am confused with this because it is "only" a .22, is it the same process as bigger handguns, where I have to write to the SP etc.?

Or can I just go ahead and buy one?

Also which one would you recommend, if any. I like Walther guns, had a P88 9mm few years back. I see they do the P22 now, I like the compact format. Any good?

Cheers

Browning Buckmark seems to be the way forward, or hamerrelli

bae

Yes you do need one,also don't forget that mag is only 5 rounds,or it is restrected (spelling).

brian

CaraFawn

bae wrote: »

Yes you do need one,also don't forget that mag is only 5 rounds,or it is restrected (spelling).

brian

Ok thanks
Apparently the P22 has 10 in the mag. Which is nice.

bae

I hope your chief super is also nice , as you will be meeting him if you get one with 10 rounds. The hoops you jump through, can also be fun :rolleyes:, look at Smith & Wesson's, CZ, etc.

brian

FISMA

Forget the P22, Walther should be ashamed to have put their name on such a piece. It is far from the little brother of the P99.

True, they have fixed many problems, however, there are still some design issues that just bother me.

For example, there's a screw that holds the frame together close to where rounds are fed into the receiver. Not fun when it rattles loose.

Also, taking it down is definitely not soldier proof and requires too many special tools. Special spanner, allen wrenches, and a lock-key.

Have a look
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/Walther/upload/other/P22_USA_Manual.pdf

It looks cool, that's it.

Browning Buckmark is a fine choice, so to is the Ruger Mark Series.

Here's my choice

Ruger 22/45 Mark III Rimfire Pistol, 10 + 1 Round Stainless 22 Long Rifle w/4.5" Barrel/Adjustable Sights

Sparks

CaraFawn wrote: »

Ok thanks
Apparently the P22 has 10 in the mag. Which is nice.

10 in the mag and not one will go near the target and you risk having the slide come back off the gun in two halves and hitting you in the face.
Bad idea to go near that heap of junk.
Spend a few extra quid, get a firearm that you'll actually enjoy using.
Browning buckmark, Ruger Mk2/3, they're okay if the money's tight - but really, you use a proper ISSF pistol and you'll be spoilt for life. Yeah, you are looking at three times the price of a buckmark, but feck it, you'll have this thing for a decade or so anyway, and probably run enough ammo through it in that time to equal the cost of the pistol, so you might as well enjoy that time, right?

Besides, you can shoot in all the other non-ISSF matches with an ISSF pistol, so it's win-win.

Rovi

Just to clarify for the OP: yes, you absolutely need a Firearm Certificate to legally possess a .22 handgun (of any configuration).
As 'Restricted' handguns can no longer be licenced, your only option is a 'Non-Restricted' one, as defined in SI 337 2009 Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammuntion) (Amendment) Order 2009.
Basically, that's air-operated short firearms of .177" calibre, single shot .22LR short firearms, and other short firearms using .22LR with a magazine (or cylinder) capacity of no more than 5 rounds and a barrel length of no less than 10 cm.

The Garda Commissioner's Guidelines as to the Practical Application & Operation of Firearms Act, 1925 - 2009 - as amended 22/10/09 contains a list of "SUITABLE OLYMPIC STANDARD PISTOLS", and while it states the list is "not exhaustive", be prepared to do some 'persuading' if you choose to purchase something NOT on the list.

The application is made to your local Garda Superintendent, through your local Garda Station, using this form: Firearms licensing - FCA1 - English.

Darr

just out of curosity while I know no more CF are been issued , is it possible to get a .22LR with a higher capacity mag (over 5) as restricted ?.
Darr

Cass

No.

If the magazine capacity is greater than 5 then it is deemed restricted and as no more restricted short arm licenses are being issued its a catch 22 situation. (Excuse the pun).

Darr

thanks i did wonder about that ... the new rules can be confusing at times .
cheers
Dar

Remmy

Does anyone know much about the baikal .22 pistols?There isnt much info on the web about them.

Cass

Just an after thought and if this comes across as insulting towards any one person or group or is infered as an attack then please mods feel free to delete.


I just think it is unusual/madness/naive (whatever) for people to think that they can purchase a firearm of any nature without a license. For someone that has no experience with firearms, licensing, etc then to a degree it is understandable as they are completely new to the whole system. For someone that previously held a firearm and (one would hope) a license for said firearm before i would wonder at the validity of the question.

Laws towards fiream ownership have only ever gotten tougher over the years so the idea or thought that the laws may have "slackened" to such an extent that no license at all is required simply baffles me. Not to mention the large red highlighted section at the top of the shooting forum that covers most every aspect of firearm ownership, licensing, etc.


Again i must state that this is not directed at the OP in such a manner so as to initiate an arguement or fight. That is not the purpose. I only make the above statement because this is not the first time this question ( or one of a similar nature) has arisen.

CaraFawn

Thanks guys for the feedback, plenty of good things to go through.

Also I am wondering the followings:

1. When you apply for a firearm, pardon me if I misread something, but it looks like you are asked to provide the serial number (Which implies you already bought it, or at least paid a deposit on it).
Is it actually the case, do you have to provide the details (Like serial number) of the firearm (Bar the model and features of course) before your request is even looked at?

2. It probably is better to register to a shooting club first, start training etc, use the clubs weapons, then apply for a permit after a while. So at least you have some history and can get referees from the club. Make sense or not here?
Where I come from, to apply for a permit, you had to be a regular member of a shooting club for 6 months at least, then you were entitled to apply for a holding permit (Carry permit exists too, but for security personal).

Cheers

CaraFawn

ezridax wrote: »

Just an after thought and if this comes across as insulting towards any one person or group or is infered as an attack then please mods feel free to d....

I appreciate the comments and I am sure plenty of guys are asking the same question again and again.

But for info, I am not Irish and have only lived here a few years.
Where I come from, weapons are ranged in categories (Which is even applied at the EU level, many EU countries uses these categories to rule weapons permits), and it is very easy to see what weapon belongs to where and what are the requirements for each categories.

Again where I come from, .22 is not considered a dangerous weapon, even though, we know it could kill someone. And even for years they were completely irregulated, that might have changed now, not sure.

From all I have read here and before, I have not be able to determine what kind of weapon belong to what categories, and I have not even found a classification/category system in Ireland.

Again maybe I missed it, but this is the reason why I asked my initial question. All handguns are not the same where I come from, but it looks like here they are all the same, regardless of the caliber, all depends if they can shoot more than 5 rounds etc., which makes them restricted or not.

Cass

Carafawn wrote:

I am not Irish.......

I assumed as much hence the reason i did not want to insult you or anyone. For future reference, Handgun, Rifle, Shotgun, Air Rifle, Crossbow, Replica, everything that resembles, imitates, looks like a firearm MUST BE LICENSED. (in some form or another)

CaraFawn wrote: »

1. When you apply for a firearm, pardon me if I misread something, but it looks like you are asked to provide the serial number (Which implies you already bought it, or at least paid a deposit on it).
Is it actually the case, do you have to provide the details (Like serial number) of the firearm (Bar the model and features of course) before your request is even looked at?

It is assumed that when applying for a firearm you have already chosen a particular make and model and more specifically a specific firearm. General rule of thumb is to pick out a firearm, put down a deposit, apply for license, when successful go pay balance and collect firearm. This prevents you from getting a non-descript license to choose any firearm of your chosen make or model. Plus there is traceability should the firearm be stolen/involved in a crime.

2. It probably is better to register to a shooting club first, start training etc, use the clubs weapons,FIREARM then apply for a permit after a while. So at least you have some history and can get referees from the club. Make sense or not here?

Cheers

The idea of going to a club and trying some club firearms is a good one. It will re-introduce you to the sport and familiarise yourself with the firearms again. Also give you insight into which make and model you may eventually want to go for.


The reason for highlighting the word firearm is to stress the use of this word as opposed to Weapon. There are no weapons in sports shooting in Ireland. I try to discourage as many as possible from using it as it conjures negative connotations in those less familiar with firearms and their uses.

CaraFawn

ezridax wrote: »

It is assumed that when applying for a firearm you have already chosen a particular make and model and more specifically a specific firearm. General rule of thumb is to pick out a firearm, put down a deposit, apply for license, when successful go pay balance and collect firearm. This prevents you from getting a non-descript license to choose any firearm of your chosen make or model. Plus there is traceability should the firearm be stolen/involved in a crime.

Yeah the only problem I have with that, is that the online shops I have visited, such as shoot.ie, are stating depostis are not refundable if you do not get your license.

So you pick up a weapon, pay a deposit, you are refused a license, your deposit is gone.

Should it not be the other way around seriously. You give the full specs of the weapon you want, you are given the license, then you (or the shop) forward the serial number to the Garda along with your permit number and they update their records.

johngalway

I must also ask that you don't use the term "weapon". The term tends to lend itself to items and implements which are used intentionally to hurt people, that's not what we're about. Firearm, rifle, shotgun, pistol, handgun, boomstick, there are plenty of cute & fluffy terms just that weapon isn't one of them

I'd question any shop which won't give you back a deposit if you didn't get your license. I've never had the problem of being refused a license but if I were to take the leap of faith in picking shop X over shop Y and give them MY money, I'd expect some little faith in return. It may be a practice which is standard across the country, and that I'm not familiar with, but I, frankly, do not like it.

The system should work like you say, it would make much more sense to the end user. I agree with that. It's got many problems, we as the end users are not always, some would say ever, catered for first.

Cass

CaraFawn wrote: »

So you pick up a weapon, ...............

FIREARM. Please and thank you.

CaraFawn wrote: »

Yeah the only problem I have with that, is that the online shops I have visited, such as shoot.ie, are stating depostis are not refundable if you do not get your license.

Every shop has its own policies. I, personally, have never been refused a license and never experienced this practise in the shops i frequent, but if a shop were to impliment that policy i would discontinue my business with them. Not to slate any shop specifically, as i understand some do not keep stock on the premises, but rather keep serial numbers that are assigned to them and when the order is placed they then import the firearm. I know from experience with this procedure that the manufacturers request a deposit from the dealer so the dealer is obviously passing this onto the customer to avoid expenses incurred incase the buyer decides not to buy after getting the dealer to import.

Best scenario there would be to ring the shops individually and ask what they have in stock, new or second hand. Then travel to see them. This will do away with any costs being incurred by the dealer or buyer for importing.

Should it not be the other way around seriously. ...............

Possibly. There are probably 100 different ways that are better than the methods currently in place, however, we have what we have so you have to work with it as trying to work against it will not work in your favour.

daveob007

Firstly I want to point out that you are looking to buy a sporting firearm and not a WEAPON.
All guns here require a certificate and you must satisfy your super or chief super that you have good reason for owning any gun.
It all depends where you are living also,I am in Limerick and was told that anything outside the comm guidelines would not be concidered,even if i get one that has been blocked to take only 5 rounds.
Check with your local super first.
As for certificates,,all guns,even .177 airguns need a cert,the only gun you can get without a cert is an airsoft which is 1 jouile or below.
Also if you are only here a few years you might have to be a citizen,which you probably are in order to own a gun,also you need to have a permanent address and not be a tenant in rented accomodation.
A friend of mine who is renting was refused on these grounds and had to use his parents home address for his cert.
Do all the groundwork first and get as much info as you can,you made a good first step by coming on here and asking.
Best of luck with it/

Grizzly 45

Being an Irish citizen isnt mandatory to getting a FAC.Being an EU citizen is or a no EU national who is legally entitled to live in the state and has done so for a certtain period qualifies.

dCorbus

Not sure if anyone has mentioned the elephant in the corner: You also have to be a member of an authorised club and/or range to even "qualify" for "good reason" - so this would have to be sorted out before a .22 pistol FAC can even be applied for (If I missed this in the earlier posts - Ooops, sorry - but hey, can't do any harm to reinforce this particular point).

There is no need to be an Irish Citizen. This has been brought up before on previous threads and I believe the length of time you must be "ordinarily resident" in the State is a minimum of 6 months:

From the Garda Commissioners Guidelines:
Those disentitled, by section 8 of the Firearms Act 1925 as amended by section 37 of the Criminal Justice Act, 2006 to hold a firearm certificate include the following:
f. Any person not ordinarily resident in the State (except a person who is temporarily so resident) for a period of six months before applying for a firearm certificate.

Just to comment on an earlier post:

Also if you are only here a few years you might have to be a citizen,which you probably are in order to own a gun,also you need to have a permanent address and not be a tenant in rented accomodation.

a) You don't have to be a citizen.
b) You don't have to have lived here for any more than 6 months before applying.
c) Any address is a permanent address once that is where you permanently reside - e.g. the address at which you are registered with the Revenue, the address which your bank account is registered to, the address where your dole payments are registered to, the address where the social welfare have you registered, etc., etc. - take your pick.
d) There is nothing (that I am aware of) which states you must not be living in rented accommodation. This would be a nonsense - and would ensure that the only firearms owners in Ireland would be those who owned property and/or those whose ethic and cultural background was Irish for at least one generation (i.e. parents owning property and living in Ireland): I'd love to see that one land up at the European Courts!

That said, if you are a tenant, you'd need your landlords permission to go bolting a gunsafe to one of their walls - and I'd say that would be more problematic than actually getting the FAC granted!

A friend of mine who is renting was refused on these grounds

Are you sure those were the stated grounds for refusal i.e. that he was living in rented accommodation? Coz if so, I'd be heading off to William Egan to have a wee chat about that.

I'd say he more likely didn't have a gunsafe installed with his landlords permission and that may have been the reason.

Can you clarify what the stated reason actually was? Thanks.

dCorbus

One other thing:

The door should not be darkened of any RFD who will not return most, if not all, of your deposit for a firearm which they have in stock, as far as I'm concerned.

I had one or two RFD's tell me (back in the deep and distant past when I was first starting to get into this shooting lark) that the deposit was non-refundable.

Oddly, haven't bought anything off them since - funny that. Their loss, i suppose. It's not like they would have sold me anything over the last couple of months or five!;):rolleyes::D

Seems like a rather odd business model some of them RFD's follow. They'd rather make a once-off €50 today, than €500 every 3 months, or €5000 every year. Odd - but hell, what would I know.:D

-Off topic Rant Ends-

Sparks

It is rather an odd business model. I mean, I could understand a small non-refundable deposit given that there are eejits who'll say "I want that one" and never get round to applying for a licence for a year or more; but considering that even a lowly .22 rifle will eat ~100 rounds in a slow week for a middling target shooter, that's ~100 boxes of ammo a year at ~8-14 euro a box depending on the shooter. €800 to €1400 of turnover per year from average rimfire target shooters (and the high level rimfire lads are running through ten thousand batch tested rounds a year), well that's nothing to sneeze at. And that's all rimfire, centerfire is even more turnover.

Tackleberrywho

Sparks wrote: »

It is rather an odd business model. I mean, I could understand a small non-refundable deposit given that there are eejits who'll say "I want that one" and never get round to applying for a licence for a year or more; but considering that even a lowly .22 rifle will eat ~100 rounds in a slow week for a middling target shooter, that's ~100 boxes of ammo a year at ~8-14 euro a box depending on the shooter. €800 to €1400 of turnover per year from average rimfire target shooters (and the high level rimfire lads are running through ten thousand batch tested rounds a year), well that's nothing to sneeze at. And that's all rimfire, centerfire is even more turnover.

~€1000 on ammo before the summers out.
I'm sick of hearing how the chinese bought all the steel............

No shortage in the North oddly enough
Anyway time for bed, Tomorrow eve back bunny bashing

tac foley

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

~€1000 on ammo before the summers out.
I'm sick of hearing how the chinese bought all the steel............

No shortage in the North oddly enough
Anyway time for bed, Tomorrow eve back bunny bashing

You DO have a four-barrelled anti-aircraft gun, now don't you? I'd hazard a guess that you shoot a lot of VERY high-priced stuff.

I shoot at least four times a week with at least five different calibres and can't begin to imagine spending more than about a quarter of that on ammunition in any year.

I'm not going to go into quite why most of my shooting costs so much less than yours, but it's pretty obvious.

The fun stuff I just HAVE to have, 7.5x55 Swiss, costs me just under eu45/C.

tac

PS - not too sure what selling steel to China steel has to do with Norma, Lapua, Fiocchi, S&B, Remington, Hornady, RWS, Federal, Nosler, Winchester et al. Do tell.

Sparks

tac foley wrote: »

I shoot at least four times a week with at least five different calibres and can't begin to imagine spending more than about a quarter of that on ammunition in any year.
I'm not going to go into quite why most of my shooting costs so much less than yours, but it's pretty obvious.

Yup, Ireland's just more expensive for shooting, basicly.
Whether that's down to the natural consequences of a small market or the actions of a few wholesalers or retailers is a matter of debate, but it's still a fact of life. .22lr rounds here go for between €8 and €16 per box of 50 depending on brand and model. I'm guessing they're cheaper elsewhere

tac foley

Sparks wrote: »

Yup, Ireland's just more expensive for shooting, basicly.
Whether that's down to the natural consequences of a small market or the actions of a few wholesalers or retailers is a matter of debate, but it's still a fact of life. .22lr rounds here go for between €8 and €16 per box of 50 depending on brand and model. I'm guessing they're cheaper elsewhere

Geco Standard - £2.80/50.

I'd say that if you paid out eu1000 ALREADY this year that you could call yourself a market all by your self, and arrange a suitable discount... ; )

tac

gu10

You need a license for every blessed thing in this country

Bananaman

Sparks wrote: »

.22lr rounds here go for between €8 and €16 per box of 50 depending on brand and model.

CCI Standard or Lapua Standard for €5/50

B'Man

dCorbus

I'd say that if you paid out eu1000 ALREADY this year that you could call yourself a market all by your self, and arrange a suitable discount... ; )

You'd think so, wouldn't you? But, doesnt seem to work that way.
Oh, to have only forked out a grand so far this year on ammo!!!!!!:(

There's one particular dealer who does get my business much / most of the time, coz he publishes his prices, will deal with discounts, is very helpful, will deliver on time, and seems, oddly enough, to respect his customers. (Although that could just be a front to get our business!;))

Everyone needs to make a profit and no RFD is in business as a charity.
But, why oh why, do I always feel like:
a) I'm about to be shafted
or
b) My business is not required nor needed nor are my euro's welcome in their shop

(and god forbid I might be allowed browse in my own good time in their precious gunrooms - sh1t on a stick, if i did that, I might actually buy something, and we couldn't have that now, could we?:rolleyes:)

Gone waaaayyyyyy off topic now - What have i started, shouldn't have gone there!

Yes, it's expensive to shoot here comparatively to certain other countries - And we all try our best to get the best deal going. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. And, whilst some RFD's are extremely sound, personable, and professional, some very much are not. Choose who you wish to spend your hard earned euro's with - and vote with your feet. Leave the penny-pinching money grubbers to fumble in their greasy gun-oiled-stained tills - and take your business elsewhere.