Amish: World's squarest teenagers.

Mickeroo

Did anyone watch this on channel four tonight? It was about a few amish teenagers braught over to england to sample modern life and other religions/cultures. Made for pretty interesting watching, its sad to see how out of touch with the world they are and how brain washed they seem. But i can't help find their innocence/naivety a little endearing. Thoughts anyone?

You can watch it online on the channel 4 website now here:

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/amish-worlds-squarest-teenagers/4od

MagicMarker

Tried to watch it but I found the narration (by the teens themselves) to be really quite annoying so I turned it off.

Roro4Brit

I started a thread on this in TV - mods feel free to merge to this.


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055979851

As I said before, I though it was great, and the Amish community seemed to embrace some honourable core values that I wish were more widespread.

I thought it was going to kick off when they went to the Mosque and they said that any worship outside of Jesus was a trick by the devil. Glad there were no Muslims within earshot when she said it.

Dades

Roro4Brit wrote: »

I started a thread on this in TV - mods feel free to merge to this.

Another thread here is fine.

Sam Kade

It would be interesting if they sent the Brit teenagers to an Amish community and see how they get on. It probably wouldn't be long before they would be whining about milking cows at 4am and work in general :rolleyes:

Sam Kade

Mickeroo wrote: »

Did anyone watch this on channel four tonight? It was about a few amish teenagers braught over to england to sample modern life and other religions/cultures. Made for pretty interesting watching, its sad to see how out of touch with the world they are

What's sad about not knowing about crime and murder?

Permabear

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robindch

donegalfella wrote: »

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Bit like the burka then?

I trust you approve of this splendidly fair choice

Permabear

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Nemi

robindch wrote: »

I trust you approve of this splendidly fair choice

It actually seems at least a partial advance on the practice of some religions, where you just get inducted as a baby before you get a chance to say "I'm a Pastafarian, you bastards". At least a person with some experience of the world can be claiming to be making some kind of informed choice.

Much as we can hardly complain if a European woman converts to Islam and voluntarily adopts the burka.

Stercus Accidit

If you are let off the leash at 16 you are not likely to be able to handle it, or enjoy it, likely pushing you back into the community, let alone banishment from your family being a big factor.

Live as we say or lose everyone you care about and live elsewhere, pretty appalling if you ask me, emotional blackmail and blatant closed mindedness.

robindch

donegalfella wrote: »

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For a distinctly Corleonesque meaning of the word "free"

Pretty neat evolutionary adaption all the same -- send away all the young tearaways to have a lark for a few years, then get them back and, under threat of social exclusion -- which can lead to early death -- get them to sign up to the religion and the necessity to get married young and have lots of kids, each of whom will have to make the same choice twenty-two years hence. Short of voluntary or involuntary sterilization, I can't think of a more effective way to breed disruptive traits out of a population.

Mickeroo

Sam Kade wrote: »

What's sad about not knowing about crime and murder?

eh, they don't know about non-religious music or dancing either.

Sam Kade

Sam Kade wrote: »

It would be interesting if they sent the Brit teenagers to an Amish community and see how they get on. It probably wouldn't be long before they would be whining about milking cows at 4am and work in general :rolleyes:

There are shows where british teenagers are sent to far-off hardworking families e.g. in south africa and expected to pitch in. Made for some funny viewing

donegalfella wrote: »

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As far as I remember (and it's been a while), if they refused baptism it was ok and they still had an ok relationship with the family. It was only if they got baptised THEN decided it wasn't for them that they got shunned by everyone.

Sam Kade

Mickeroo wrote: »

eh, they don't know about non-religious music or dancing either.

Whats so sad about that?

Dades

Sam Kade wrote: »

Whats so sad about that?

You're painting yourself into a corner on this one.

Tim Robbins

This all goes back to Plato's cave. A group of people live in their own world and find it hard to relate to people outside that cave and vice versa.

However if they are happier in that cave, what's wrong with it?

Permabear

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sensibleken

Sam Kade wrote: »

Whats so sad about that?

two words. The Clash

robindch

Tim Robbins wrote: »

However if they are happier in that cave, what's wrong with it?

The problem is that they're trying to make the rest of us live in the darkness too.

sensibleken

robindch wrote: »

The problem is that they're trying to make the rest of us live in the darkness too.

The Amish are? Ive never felt any presure from them. or met any of them

sink

robindch wrote: »

The problem is that they're trying to make the rest of us live in the darkness too.

The Amish don't proselytize. You will never see an Amish preaching or handing out leaflets, or knocking on your door to spread the word. They keep themselves to themselves and I say live and let live.

Tim Robbins

robindch wrote: »

The problem is that they're trying to make the rest of us live in the darkness too.

I disagree with that. The Amish stick to themselves. They don't Bible bash.

I see the problem with is that it fails under Kant's categorical imperative. In that, I presume they would go to the Doctor if they had to. This requires a certain percentage of society not to live like them. So their lifestyle can only exist if people reject it.

Permabear

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robindch

sensibleken wrote: »

The Amish are? Ive never felt any presure from them. or met any of them

My mistake, religious in general, not the Amish. Shoulda looked more closely at the thread title.

I can't imagine one of those dinky horse and carts making it across the Atlantic to do the door to door in Dublin

toiletduck

donegalfella wrote: »

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Yeah, that's a very good documentary. Well worth a look.

Didn't most of them choose to go back and be baptised?

Permabear

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Valmont

donegalfella wrote: »

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That's an interesting statistic. I may have to watch this documentary! Although I should first check if Louis Theroux has ever visited them.

MazG

I watched this last night and thought it was very interesting. I was particularly impressed with how sensitive the British teenagers were to the beliefs of their Amish visitors. So much for the "feral teenagers" line that the Daily Mail would have us believe. I also thought the Amish teenagers, particularly the girls, were also making a real effort to respect their British counterparts lifestyles even when it was totally alien and in some cases, seemingly in direct opposition to their own deeply held values.

Truley

MazG wrote: »

I watched this last night and thought it was very interesting. I was particularly impressed with how sensitive the British teenagers were to the beliefs of their Amish visitors. So much for the "feral teenagers" line that the Daily Mail would have us believe. I also thought the Amish teenagers, particularly the girls, were also making a real effort to respect their British counterparts lifestyles even when it was totally alien and in some cases, seemingly in direct opposition to their own deeply held values.

Their reaction to the Shooting that took place in their community in 2006 was truly inspiring. A proper example of Christian forgiveness, if only all religious groupings could practice what they preach to the extent the Amish do.

irishh_bob

Mickeroo wrote: »

Did anyone watch this on channel four tonight? It was about a few amish teenagers braught over to england to sample modern life and other religions/cultures. Made for pretty interesting watching, its sad to see how out of touch with the world they are and how brain washed they seem. But i can't help find their innocence/naivety a little endearing. Thoughts anyone?

You can watch it online on the channel 4 website now here:

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/amish-worlds-squarest-teenagers/4od

found them to be very charming ( especially the girls ) people , considering the incredibly sheltered backround they came from , i think they adopted quite well , its obvious the amish are a very kind and compassionate people , id even go as far as to say they are a very tollerant people

Mickeroo

irishh_bob wrote: »

found them to be very charming ( especially the girls ) people , considering the incredibly sheltered backround they came from , i think they adopted quite well , its obvious the amish are a very kind and compassionate people , id even go as far as to say they are a very tollerant people

Yea i agree, even though they could be considered fundamentalists to an extent they don't seem intent on pushing those beliefs on anyone else and are quite happy to go about their lives in peace.

mehfesto

I enjoyed the show too. Next week looks like it could be even more interesting - two of the Amish lads take to drink.

It is a pity though that there aren't more Amish-type religions about. Believing what they choose to and not forcing ideas upon people. It's quite beautiful in its own way. That said, it'd be hard to argue that there's not a helluva lot of indoctrination going on, there.

Nick_oliveri

mehfesto wrote: »

It is a pity though that there aren't more Amish-type religions about. Believing what they choose to and not forcing ideas upon people. It's quite beautiful in its own way. That said, it'd be hard to argue that there's not a helluva lot of indoctrination going on, there.

Enjoyed it myself I must say, but you've pretty much hit the nail on the head about their obvious preconceived teachings and notions. Maybe it would be better if they left all the serious bible bashing until after rumspringer, these people didn't have a clue about other faiths, and basically seen the Muslim cleric as a heathen and the single unmarried mother as the devils work. I would like to believe that the Amish people would be acceptant of an outsider once he or she conformed even visually to their culture.

I really do hope they can make an unbiased decision as to where they want to be. But leaving Amish means leaving your family. I cant see any of them doing it and TBH I wouldn't blame them.

axer

Nick_oliveri wrote: »

I really do hope they can make an unbiased decision as to where they want to be. But leaving Amish means leaving your family. I cant see any of them doing it and TBH I wouldn't blame them.

Not just that but they were also insitutionalised before they left which would make it very hard to feel comfortable outside of the Amish community. I think the choice they have is really a false choice. There is so much pulling them towards going back. Extemes like this are never good.

Galvasean

Wait, 3 pages in and no one has posted this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6YyWi4eQCI

Killer Pigeon

Even though I wouldn't agree with the religious aspects of life in the Amish community, I think their simplistic and humble lifestyle is quite inspiring. Their way of life is far richer, in my opinion, than the way of life of the high-tech world around them. In the documentary, they seemed to be a lot more sensible than the chav kids, even though their knowledge of the world was quite limited.

storm2811

They seem far more mature than the people they're staying with,Becky aswell,seems really kind of wise I suppose.

They seem to be fairly open to hear peoples' opinions and will listen to them when they talk about their beliefs and way of life.
Was interesting tonight though, they seem to be breaking away from the Amish lifestyle a bit more.

Goduznt Xzst

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Their way of life is far richer, in my opinion, than the way of life of the high-tech world around them.

You're falsely romanticizing their existence. Like people do with the medival era, or with the Native Americans... etc.

They live a hard life of manual labour with little time nor money to be free. They exist in the basest form of life, to eat, sleep, breed then die, and when they are sick they rely on the medical advancements of the rest of world, that only exist because humans elsewhere have an abundance of free time to spend on inventing cures and understanding the human body.

I've seen Devil's Playground and it's like a sick trick they play on those kids. They are pushed into a strange new world with no education to better themselves and are guided in via this vicious circle that gets passed on from year to year. They get introduced to drugs, alcohol, sex by their Amish peers presently in it at the most rebellious point in a young persons life, when they need guidance and a stable foundation the most. Unsurprisingly, most of these kids burn out, can't make a living due to a pathethic education, can't get into colleges, and end up having no option but to take the path of least resistance and move back in with their parents and work for them.

Lollipops23

Have to say I found it fascinating. Also,the British teens seemed very respectful of the Amish kids views for the most part. Like I was expecting some idiot teenager to try and cop a feel of one of the girls or something,"for a laugh".

The Amish boys did come across as being slightly stranger than the girls,even just in conversation. The young girl whose family had since left the community seemed lovely-it was moving watching her paddle in the ocean for the first time,as she enjoyed it so much.

Pittens

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

They exist in the basest form of life, to eat, sleep, breed then die,

Who doesn't? They would claim that your life - absent of God - is baser. They are just practicing for the real thing. And there are great joys in manual labour.

that said. I am a big fan of the modern world and all it's conveniences.

TBH I prefer these guys are far preferable to the anarchists, extreme environmentalists et al. who despise the modern world but dont do anything to take themselves out of it. Just a continuous whine.

Say what you like about the Amish, they are environmentally sound.

Pittens

As an aside - the amish population has increased from 5,000 to 300,000 in the last century. Another proportional increase brings them to 5 million.

sink

Environmentally sound and all that it is, their way of life is also land intensive. They require far more acreage per head compared to modern society because their farming methods are far less intensive. As a result their population can only grow so large before they require either more land or to adopt modern farming practices. Alternatively they could stop having such large families. Either way their current social order is heading for a brick wall.

condra

I've watched both episodes so far and have found them extremely enjoyable.

I bet I'm not the only guy here who wants to give them all a big hug. Especially the girls.

On a somewhat philosophical note, I found it interesting that I was so charmed by their innocence. I think the desire to preserve innocence might be a natural human tendency, rather than just a cultural or religious endeavor.

It's rare to see such innocence in older teenagers, and I can't help but feel like it should somehow be preserved, or that they should be protected during their enlightening journey.

irishh_bob wrote: »

its obvious the amish are a very kind and compassionate people , id even go as far as to say they are a very tollerant people

I agree, though I put it down to nurture rather than nature.

What I found most endearing about their way of life is that despite being encouraged to refer to The Bible to solve ethical questions, they are also encouraged to be reflective, and philosophical. Gosh, if they ever left the faith, they would make great skeptics

Whether the documentary intended to or not, I think it raises some interesting questions about the merits of freedom itself. Through their indoctrinated upbringing, the attitudes and behaviour of the Amish teenagers was exemplary. Perhaps we in secular society can learn something from The Amish.

Goduznt Xzst

Pittens wrote: »

And there are great joys in manual labour.

that said. I am a big fan of the modern world and all it's conveniences.

I'd tend to agree, I like the nature of my being to have a sprig of Heidegger with a jigger of Polanyi.

robby^5

Saw the first episode of this last night. Must say that some of the skills they learn are brilliant and I'd love to know how to do some of that myself. But at the expense of a proper education? Not even learning basic history or science? No thanks.

I felt terribly sorry for the girl whose family left their community, she seemed quite interested in art and would talk about creativity a lot. They may seem harmless but imo they're just as bad as any other religion. These kids have no choice but to assimilate into the lifestyle that their parents chose for them or be shunned, it's indocrination of the worst kind because they'll never really be able to fit into the modern world unlike more mainstream religions. To lose your family AND have literally nowhere else to turn...

storm2811

I was reading up about the Amish community in Ireland and the children are allowed to take state exams if they want, I don't think it's as strict a community as the one talked about on the programme.

Pittens

robby^5 wrote: »

To lose your family AND have literally nowhere else to turn...

I have no idea but are they totally shunned by their family, or just moved onto the city and meet the family less? One of the guys was 23 - he had to decide soon whether to go back or not.... Has he met his family in the interim?

Pittens

Pittens wrote: »

I have no idea but are they totally shunned by their family, or just moved onto the city and meet the family less? One of the guys was 23 - he had to decide soon whether to go back or not.... Has he met his family in the interim?

Membership is taken seriously. Those who join the church, and then later leave, may be shunned by their former congregation and their families. Those who choose to not join can continue to relate freely with their friends and family.

I think they're told it's better not to join than to join then leave

recedite

storm2811 wrote: »

I was reading up about the Amish community in Ireland and the children are allowed to take state exams if they want, I don't think it's as strict a community as the one talked about on the programme.

Apparently the cut-off point for technology is the year 1981 for the Irish group.
They are not allowed to have microwave ovens, or DVD players, but they do have video recorders. They can often be seen driving long distances in a Ford Capri looking for an Xtravision shop that still rents movies on VHS.

juanmawr

recedite wrote: »

Apparently the cut-off point for technology is the year 1981 for the Irish group.
They are not allowed to have microwave ovens, or DVD players, but they do have video recorders. They can often be seen driving long distances in a Ford Capri looking for an Xtravision shop that still rents movies on VHS.

Ho, ho. Having met the Amish-Mennonite community in Co. Waterford I can say their philosophy is to make full use of modern technology, but only if it's beneficial. For example, the internet is fine for email communication, but they'd have no interest in downloading Lady Gaga's latest. It's a stereotype of 'the Amish' that they are backward. The Old Order Amish, including the particularly strict (and thankfully very small) sect that one of the girls in this series grew up in, live a 17th century lifestyle because that's their culture. Many Amish groups, e.g. Beachy Amish, have no problem with making use of modern technology.

The Irish group (who have attracted members from across Europe) are also warm, loving, clever people who are an inspiration, and very welcoming to people who are interested in them. The pastor has given newspaper interviews.