M9 Motorway Could face Additional toll

RobitTV

Waterford motorists could be facing another toll according to reports this morning

The Irish Times quotes Department of Transport sources that the Waterford to Dublin motorway jumps
off the page as an obvious route to toll.

Drivers in Waterford already face a toll to use the Second River crossing, however motorist can use the new motorway without charge.

The M9 is to be the only one of the State’s inter-urban motorways that has just one toll and this can be avoiding by using Rice Bridge.

Other possibilities include tolling stretches of the Limerick to Cork route, the Jack Lynch tunnel and a range of bypasses such as Youghal and Ballincollig in Co Cork.

Minstrel27

The second river crossing isn't a part of the M9.

Cabaal

Minstrel27 wrote: »

The second river crossing isn't a part of the M9.

Its great when journalists don't do proper research eh?
The motorway is the M9 the second river crossing is the N25, so infact the M9 has no tolls what so ever at present

gscully

Pedantry aside, isn't it just a bit ridiculous that anyone driving from Waterford, using the Suir Bridge, to get to Dublin Airport would have to pay three tolls?

Could someone explain to me where our extortionate road tax goes?

mecco

I'm no fan of road tax or in particular, what we get for our money, but I dont think anyone driving from waterford would go over the new bridge in this case.

And it seems to me the example you gave is one toll for the N25/city by pass, one for the M9 (if/when it happens) and one for the M50. Whether or not you think those roads should be tolled is a different situation. Personally I'd make my peace with the tolls for the ease of using dual-carraigeways and motorways.

Cabaal

gscully wrote: »

Pedantry aside, isn't it just a bit ridiculous that anyone driving from Waterford, using the Suir Bridge, to get to Dublin Airport would have to pay three tolls?

Is it any different for somebody going from Galway to Dublin?
Three tolls

Could someone explain to me where our extortionate road tax goes?

We don't pay road tax, you pay motor tax.
Motor tax goes into a big pot and is used for all sorts of things....not just road or transport related.

ziedth

^ I agree,

I mean SOMETHING has to be done to generate a bit of money correct? In my view if you can afford the trip to Dublin you can afford the maybe €5 you might pay in tolls. Bit lousy on people who travel it daily granted.

Cabaal

ziedth wrote: »

^ I agree,

I mean SOMETHING has to be done to generate a bit of money correct? In my view if you can afford the trip to Dublin you can afford the maybe €5 you might pay in tolls. Bit lousy on people who travel it daily granted.

You have to look at reality,
If you get yourself a car you know its going to cost money, tax, insurance, petrol, maintance etc we all know it costs money.

This is yet another running cost and reality is that the gov needs more money, doesn't matter who is in power money needs to be raised, I'm not saying I agree with it but how is Waterford anymore special then Galway when it comes to putting tolls on roads?

Minstrel27

Cabaal wrote: »

Is it any different for somebody going from Galway to Dublin?
Three tolls

It is three from Cork to dublin also now that Abbeyleix section has been completed.

Benimar

Cabaal wrote: »

You have to look at reality,
If you get yourself a car you know its going to cost money, tax, insurance, petrol, maintance etc we all know it costs money.

This is yet another running cost and reality is that the gov needs more money, doesn't matter who is in power money needs to be raised, I'm not saying I agree with it but how is Waterford anymore special then Galway when it comes to putting tolls on roads?

It isn't, but just because Galway people are getting shafted on this doesn't mean that we have to. I have to say, the argument that others do it, therefore we should, really annoys me. The cost of tolls from Galway to Dublin Airport is crazy and should be reduced, rather than screwing everybody else to 'bring them in line' with the Galway road.

It's easy to say that if you can afford to go to Dublin, you can afford the tolls. The toll doesn't distinguish between people who can afford it and those who can't. Some people will have to go to Dublin out of necessity (hospitals etc), do they stick to the old 'death trap' road? I've always thought that the M9 should not be tolled because there isn't a viable alternative given the state of the old N9.

Also, remember we will be paying more than our own tolls. Businesses will have no option but to pass on the toll charges which will increase the cost of everything we buy.

I'm not saying I have the solution to the countrys ills (and if I did I certainly wouldn't trust our politicians with it), but this needs to be looked at a bit more carefully than 'ah, it's only a few quid'

fricatus

Tolls are a stupid idea. All they do is discourage use of the tolled road.

I'm not against road pricing when it's in an effort to reduce congestion (like what they have in London), but it seems completely stupid to discourage people from using a safer, less congested, high quality road.

Our new bridge has tons of excess capacity just going to waste because a toll is being charged. Meanwhile people are sitting in jams all along the Quay every evening, reducing their quality of life, and that of people using the city centre.

When the new bridge was opened, it was claimed that traffic on the Quay would drop by 30%. However it has fallen by 6% judging by the year-on-year figures for April of this year and last.

If they toll the M9, sure, people just going occasionally to Dublin will use it, but people commuting between the likes of KK and Waterford, KK and Carlow, Naas and Carlow, etc., will just go back to using the old road, while the new one sits, neither generating toll revenue, nor doing anything economically useful with its excess capacity.

Benimar

fricatus wrote: »

Tolls are a stupid idea. All they do is discourage use of the tolled road.

I'm not against road pricing when it's in an effort to reduce congestion (like what they have in London), but it seems completely stupid to discourage people from using a safer, less congested, high quality road.

Our new bridge has tons of excess capacity just going to waste because a toll is being charged. Meanwhile people are sitting in jams all along the Quay every evening, reducing their quality of life, and that of people using the city centre.

When the new bridge was opened, it was claimed that traffic on the Quay would drop by 30%. However it has fallen by 6% judging by the year-on-year figures for April of this year and last.

If they toll the M9, sure, people just going occasionally to Dublin will use it, but people commuting between the likes of KK and Waterford, KK and Carlow, Naas and Carlow, etc., will just go back to using the old road, while the new one sits, neither generating toll revenue, nor doing anything economically useful with its excess capacity.

Thank you sir! You just saved me a lot of typing. I could not agree with you more.

mike65

Usual brain fart stuff from our masters (and their hired consultants).

Joey leBlanc

You are always gonna get skinflints no matter what the economic climate is. Miserable bitter ol' sods would rather put themselves thru the misery of driving an extra 15miles & add an extra 30mins on their journeys just to avoid paying a 1.80euro toll;
The same miserable b'strds who take naggins into a pub & just buy a couple of glasses of Coke all nite;
The same tight fisted ppl who rather than get subscribe to a wheelie bin, go around town disposing of their waste in the litter bins;

Most ordinary, laid-back sane people will pay the toll for a better class of road, a safer journey, no chance of getting stuck behind a Sunday driver as there is ample opportunity to overtake & the bonus of the journey being much quicker.

comeraghs

I thought there was going to be a toll somewhere between Kilkenny & Carlow once the road is completed!? No?

Benimar

Joey leBlanc wrote: »

You are always gonna get skinflints no matter what the economic climate is. Miserable bitter ol' sods would rather put themselves thru the misery of driving an extra 15miles & add an extra 30mins on their journeys just to avoid paying a 1.80euro toll;
The same miserable b'strds who take naggins into a pub & just buy a couple of glasses of Coke all nite;
The same tight fisted ppl who rather than get subscribe to a wheelie bin, go around town disposing of their waste in the litter bins;

Most ordinary, laid-back sane people will pay the toll for a better class of road, a safer journey, no chance of getting stuck behind a Sunday driver as there is ample opportunity to overtake & the bonus of the journey being much quicker.

I object to tolls.
I have NEVER brought drink into a pub
I pay my bin charges and do not dump illegally

Oh, and the toll is €1.90..each way..for a car. Sounds like you don't use it too often?

tonc76

comeraghs wrote: »

I thought there was going to be a toll somewhere between Kilkenny & Carlow once the road is completed!? No?

Nope! There were no plans to toll this section as current traffic figures and projected future traffic figures would not have made it a viable business for the operator.

Whether the road is tolled by the government is yet to be seen? A government toll would mean all monies collected would go into the government coffers.

Max Powers

I cant agree with tolling the M9, we pay a toll on our bypass(N25). Limerick, Cork and Galway dont pay tolls on their bypasses.
Where does our road tax go? Ans= to fund quangos and handy numbers for the seanad and dail members to fill their pockets.
Lets face it, a toll is just another stealth tax like your tv licence fee, bin charges etc. At this stage we are handing over 50% of your earnings to the govt. to waste most of it. PAYE, PRSI, VAT on all goods and services, levy, health levy, tv licence, extra taxes on booze and smokes, bin charges, tolls, NCT etc etc.

fricatus

Joey leBlanc wrote: »

Miserable bitter ol' sods would rather put themselves thru the misery of driving an extra 15miles & add an extra 30mins on their journeys just to avoid paying a 1.80euro toll;

I work in Kilkenny and use the M9.

Approximately 20 working days in a month...
That makes 240 in a year.
Travelling to and fro, that makes 480 trips.
Assuming a toll of €1.90, that makes €912 a year. Skinflint, you say?

Before you ask, public transport doesn't serve my workplace, unless you consider a 25-minute walk acceptable.
In any event, I often start before the first Waterford-KK train gets to KK, and at other times I finish after the last train leaves.

And like Benimar, I have NEVER brought drink into a pub, I pay my bin charges and do not dump illegally.

mecco

fricatus wrote: »

Tolls are a stupid idea. All they do is discourage use of the tolled road.

I'm not against road pricing when it's in an effort to reduce congestion (like what they have in London), but it seems completely stupid to discourage people from using a safer, less congested, high quality road.

Our new bridge has tons of excess capacity just going to waste because a toll is being charged. Meanwhile people are sitting in jams all along the Quay every evening, reducing their quality of life, and that of people using the city centre.

When the new bridge was opened, it was claimed that traffic on the Quay would drop by 30%. However it has fallen by 6% judging by the year-on-year figures for April of this year and last.

If they toll the M9, sure, people just going occasionally to Dublin will use it, but people commuting between the likes of KK and Waterford, KK and Carlow, Naas and Carlow, etc., will just go back to using the old road, while the new one sits, neither generating toll revenue, nor doing anything economically useful with its excess capacity.

It seems to me that people are going to weigh it up and decide whether or not they think a toll is worth it. A toll on a road such as the M9 is not stupid in my opinion as I'm sure a lot of people would take a toll for the extra ease the motorway adds to their journey in comparison to a single lane road.

This is where the toll on the new bridge suffers. Its only of use to people who are going around the city, and I imagine that, with the exception of trucks, there is a relatively limited amount of vehicles going from cork and west waterford to wexford area.

On the subject of trucks, they would probably be most likely to avoid a toll because its a much higher cost for them. I wonder has the NRA figure of 6% increased since the HGV ban in the city centre, but i guess im drifting off topic now:)

dayshah

gscully wrote: »

Pedantry aside, isn't it just a bit ridiculous that anyone driving from Waterford, using the Suir Bridge, to get to Dublin Airport would have to pay three tolls?

Could someone explain to me where our extortionate road tax goes?

It pays for the roads.
The amount of revenue generated from motor tax and taxes on petrol/diesel is less than what is spent on roads. Roads are subsidised from general taxation.

That said, I think tolls are inefficient. If you want to make people pay for the amount they use roads it would be easier to just increase excise duty. All the infrastructure for that already exists, and it wouldn't divert people into city centres.

Cabaal

Benimar wrote: »

I have to say, the argument that others do it, therefore we should, really annoys me.

Ironic that people on this forum have been complaining about Waterford not having a M&S yet other citys do, so now we have a city with a nice new motorway that actually has no toll on it.

All other motorways to citys have them so why not Waterford

The cost of tolls from Galway to Dublin Airport is crazy and should be reduced, rather than screwing everybody else to 'bring them in line' with the Galway road.

Fair enough, but thats a different discussion

I've always thought that the M9 should not be tolled because there isn't a viable alternative given the state of the old N9.

Could Galway people not argue the same for the road from Dublin to Galway, or Cork people to argue the same for Dublin to Cork

dayshah

Cabaal wrote: »

Could Galway people not argue the same for the road from Dublin to Galway, or Cork people to argue the same for Dublin to Cork

The difference with the toll of on the new bridge is that its a reverse congestion charge. It actually funnels traffic into the city centre, not away. I think its fair to compare the new bridge to the J Lynch tunnel, which has no road.

I think it would be fair to get rid of the bridge toll and put more tolls on the motorway instead. Or better still, scrap all tolls and just increase excise duty on petrol and diesel.

sunnysoutheast

dayshah wrote: »

The difference with the toll of on the new bridge is that its a reverse congestion charge. It actually funnels traffic into the city centre, not away. I think its fair to compare the new bridge to the J Lynch tunnel, which has no road.

I think it would be fair to get rid of the bridge toll and put more tolls on the motorway instead. Or better still, scrap all tolls and just increase excise duty on petrol and diesel.

The Jack Lynch tunnel has a road in it, unless there was an apocalyptic event after I got the red eye LHR flight this morning

Does anyone know - how much is the HGV toll on the new bridge and how does this compare to the fuel cost of routing down through Gracedieu (presumably), over the bridge and up through Ferrybank or past the station back to the N9/N25?

On a personal note we happily pay the €1.90 to access the bypass to get home if we're coming back from the Dublin direction, I just can't be bothered getting caught up on the quay.

SSE

JohnC.

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

Does anyone know - how much is the HGV toll on the new bridge and how does this compare to the fuel cost of routing down through Gracedieu (presumably), over the bridge and up through Ferrybank or past the station back to the N9/N25?

I have no idea what the fuel consumption of an HGV would be, but hardly €6 in that distance?

sunnysoutheast

Kahless wrote: »

I have no idea what the fuel consumption of an HGV would be, but hardly €6 in that distance?

HGVs are around 5-10 MPG aren't they?

Maybe someone in the know can work out the comparatives, but I've noticed a few more lorries using the bridge recently.

SSE

mecco

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

HGVs are around 5-10 MPG aren't they?

Maybe someone in the know can work out the comparatives, but I've noticed a few more lorries using the bridge recently.

SSE

A few months ago they blocked off the centre of town to lorries with 3.5tonne limits once you get past the industrial estate

Sikie

Well up to a few weeks ago I thought it my own private toll bridge there was been mornings recently where queues were up to 2 deep at the manual pay station.

Cabaal

Sikie wrote: »

Well up to a few weeks ago I thought it my own private toll bridge there was been mornings recently where queues were up to 2 deep at the manual pay station.

No idea why people use the manual pay station, you can use the self serve one's and there's normally one or two open

Sikie

Its a question of change using it daily it cost 10c extra to drop in 2 euro.
Setting up an account I would use it the whole time, time is a valuable item itself. Using real money keeps me in control.:o

Cabaal

Sikie wrote: »

Its a question of change using it daily it cost 10c extra to drop in 2 euro.

But it doesn't, it still costs 1.90