British Army Mark I Tank streets of Dublin 1921 - War of Inedpendence

Morlar

I came across this picture while researching some items I recently acquired and found it pretty staggering. Can anyone shed any light on this ?

http://www.adams.ie/BidCat/detail.asp?SaleRef=7025&LotRef=346

Mountjoy Square Curfew, February 1921
A collection of 6 photographic glass plates, one depicting soldiers during a raid in Mountjoy Square and including another rare depiction of a tank.
The end of hostilities in Europe allowed for the deployment of mark 1 battle tanks where the British Army became involved in insurgency and civic disturbance. However they were singularly ill adapted to the role. It is not known how many were sent to Ireland, where in urban environments they were used as static guard posts, guarding buildings or troops deploying for house searches. The Maxwell family at 22 Mountjoy Square had a legal and British Army tradition. Photographic record of the deployment of battle tanks in Dublin is rare.

The only other pictures of WWI Era Tanks I have seen in Ireland relate to the post WWI victory parade which passed around College Green.

This link btw is an auction site and it appears that the photographs did not sell - if anyone knows of any more of these pictures in exsistence or some background information to Tanks being used in the Irish War of Independence then please post up here.

Judgement Day

I've seen a similar pic somewhere before - not this one but in same area I suspect. The mind boggles at the logistics of moving such vehicles to Ireland and then deploying them - not too mention the poor PR such a deployment must have been. Sledgehammer and nut come to mind.

deise go deo

Ya iv seen pictures of them in Ireland before too, Makes sence really, the British army did have quite alot of training grounds in Ireland,Curragh, Glen of Imall etc, As for their effect in the war of indepandance, Id say nil, other than 'shock and awe' They werent exactilly flexible, good against trenches, not against gurrileas.

Morlar

If anyone has any links to online pictures, or to the names of books that contain pictures of them (either deployed or on parade or even in barracks) then please post them here. Also can anyone confirm that this would be the first deployment of a Tank in a counter insurgency role anywhere (I believe it is) ?

Denerick

Armoured cars were deployed across Ireland during the war but I always imagined they were very very light tanks, ie, a moving machine gun post. They would have been useful in urban areas.

On a side note, Séan MacEoin got his hands on a tank during the Civil War in Athlone/Sligo. I believe he had one single armoured car and it caused quite a lot of damage. Many of the skirmishes with western anti treaty fighters was over trying to capture this powerful machine. During the final months of the Civil War Liam Lynch had some crackpot idea to import heavy guns and begin a counter offensive aimed primarily at the Free State armoured cars. It didn't quite happen for him.

Morlar

There was also an armoured car hijacked during the War of Independence and used in an attempted prison break Never heard of a MKI Tank though - 12 man crew, 5 mph Goliath of a vehicle !!!!

deise go deo

Im pritty sure there is a picture of one deployed on security in dan breens book.

Ya id say you could be right, I cant think of anywhere else they would have been deployed for that between 1916 and 1921 other than maybe in Germany in 1918/19 against the unrest in the country

Denerick

Morlar wrote: »

There was also an armoured car hijacked during the War of Independence and used in an attempted prison break

Séan MacEoin seems to be at the heart of all my comments relating to the war of independence. Was that the same plan to break him out of prison?

Morlar

Denerick wrote: »

Séan MacEoin seems to be at the heart of all my comments relating to the war of independence. Was that the same plan to break him out of prison?

I have been reading so much on this period in the last few weeks that my head is spinning with it to be honest Just had to google to confirm but yes - it was Emmet Dalton and Paddy Daly etc who took it over and tried to break him out.

I can't remember which book that was covered in but the way I read it they staked out the car on it's rounds for about 2 weeks, arriving daily and laying in wait for their chance when ALL of the crew exited the vehicle on it's rounds.

Finally that day came - the entire crew exited for a smoke and to stretch their legs and the volunteers struck. Some were in BA uniform and entered Mountjoy prison but could not get access to MacEoin who was under orders to be at a certain accessible location of the prison for each day of the preceding 2 weeks of the ongoing operation. In the end there was a pitched battle and they had to shoot their way out of the prison they had just entered under disguise.

deise go deo

Denerick wrote: »

Armoured cars were deployed across Ireland during the war but I always imagined they were very very light tanks, ie, a moving machine gun post. They would have been useful in urban areas.

Yes armoured cars were quite a threat to the IRA when ambushing convoys. They started comeing into the country in noumbers in Jan 1921
The IRA responded to them by treanching the roads so as to limit where they could go. As for Tanks, they moved at walking pase, just getting one out into the country would have been impracitcle, let alone what you would do with it when it got there.

CDfm

I spoke to an old guy in Limerick years ago who when he was young spoke about some sort of a tank rolling up to the train station.

Check this out on British Pathe News around the time if the Limerick Soviet and a video of a tank in 1919

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=77302

More on the Limerick gig

http://www.marxist.com/commemoration-limerick-soviet.htm

There must have been loads of tanks brought back after WWI and deployed in Ireland and easy enough to land at any port

Denerick

Morlar wrote: »

I have been reading so much on this period in the last few weeks that my head is spinning with it to be honest Just had to google to confirm but yes - it was Emmet Dalton and Paddy Daly etc who took it over and tried to break him out.

I can't remember which book that was covered in but the way I read it they staked out the car on it's rounds for about 2 weeks, arriving daily and laying in wait for their chance when ALL of the crew exited the vehicle on it's rounds.

Finally that day came - the entire crew exited for a smoke and to stretch their legs and the volunteers struck. Some were in BA uniform and entered Mountjoy prison but could not get access to MacEoin who was under orders to be at a certain accessible location of the prison for each day of the preceding 2 weeks of the ongoing operation. In the end there was a pitched battle and they had to shoot their way out of the prison they had just entered under disguise.

Did you read that in 'the blacksmith of Balinalee'? I read that recently so its stuck in my mind. (You guessed it, a biography of Séan MacEoin. Really, I'd better find a new person to study )

Morlar

CDfm wrote: »

Check this out on British Pathe News around the time if the Limerick Soviet and a video of a tank in 1919

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=77302

Cheers for the clip.

CDfm wrote: »

There must have been loads of tanks brought back after WWI and deployed in Ireland and easy enough to land at any port

They were brought back from WWI but they were never in great numbers, also transporting them to Ireland and then around Ireland and then deploying them is going to be a challenge. Certainly if there were that many of them and they were all over the place it would be possible to find more than one photograph of one in Dublin.

Denerick wrote: »

Did you read that in 'the blacksmith of Balinalee'? I read that recently so its stuck in my mind. (You guessed it, a biography of Séan MacEoin. Really, I'd better find a new person to study )

I can not remember the book that was from but it was not the Blacksmith of Balinalee. Incidentally I also saw a first edition of that book on the auction site that had the glass plate photographs above.

Smartypantsdig

There was a book on the Limerick Soviet published a good few years ago and I am almost sure there were plates of tanks in it. I also think that there are more in Ryans book on Sean Tracey.