Does Religion Have Any Good Side?

AudreyHepburn

Dades wrote: »

I wouldn't use that term myself. Otherwise I'd have to apply it to my wife and most of my family.

What's wrong with believing in something because it makes you feel better? It's intellectually dishonest, no?

How so? If something makes you feel good and doesn't hurt you or anyone else what's the problem?

ColmDawson

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

How so? If something makes you feel good and doesn't hurt you or anyone else what's the problem?

Because you're sort of admitting that being gullible is a virtue. You're relieving yourself of the responsibility of critical thinking simply because it feels better not to rigorously question your faith.

It makes you feel good, as you said. It's intellectually dishonest because you're allowing your own convictions and beliefs to get in the way of actually seeking the truth.

Fighting Irish

Dades wrote: »

I'd imagine he means, in a provocative manner, that a lot of people believe in gods because they don't want to face their own mortality, or that their loved ones are gone forever, or that there's no big guy in the sky looking out for you.

exactly

Fighting Irish

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

How so? If something makes you feel good and doesn't hurt you or anyone else what's the problem?

religion as a whole is bad thing

liamw

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

How so? If something makes you feel good and doesn't hurt you or anyone else what's the problem?

But religion has stifled scientific advancements in the past, and still does with campaigns like anti-stem cell research. What about these anti-gay marriage campaigns, they are hurting people? The list goes on.

If you kept your beliefs that made you feel good to yourself (and not interfere whatsoever), then I don't think anyone has an issue with that. I'm just surpised that anyone would be more content to desperately believe a lie than to face reality.

Dades

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

How so? If something makes you feel good and doesn't hurt you or anyone else what's the problem?

The problem is we both know belief isn't always personal.

If religion didn't spill over into public policy then nobody would really give a darn what people believe to help them sleep at night.

johnfás

Dades wrote: »

If religion didn't spill over into public policy then nobody would really give a darn what people believe to help them sleep at night.

Most things spill into public policy. We have a whole Government Department largely committed to the Irish language - the usefulness of which is entirely subjective and based on national identity - which we all know is imagined.

Dades

johnfás wrote: »

Most things spill into public policy. We have a whole Government Department largely committed to the Irish language - the usefulness of which is entirely subjective and based on national identity - which we all know is imagined.

Yes, but johnfás, at least there is no disagreement as to whether the Irish language exists.

Grawns

liamw wrote: »

But religion has stifled scientific advancements in the past, and still does with campaigns like anti-stem cell research. What about these anti-gay marriage campaigns, they are hurting people? The list goes on.

If you kept your beliefs that made you feel good to yourself (and not interfere whatsoever), then I don't think anyone has an issue with that. I'm just surpised that anyone would be more content to desperately believe a lie than to face reality.

Very true. And as for the blatant misogny in every single religion ever invented

mehfesto

18 pages and not one mention of sexy nuns?



What happened? You guys used to be cool.

goingpostal

^^
I've been a naughty boy, Sister Agnes. Would you like to spank me, and then we can find a use for those rosary beads

deise go deo

Down with that sort of thing!!!!


















I mean her clothes of course:D

Goduznt Xzst

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Religion is a crutch for the weak minded

Fighting Irish wrote: »

religion as a whole is bad thing

It is a symptom of a weak mind when a person has faith in absolutes. You may not have a God but you are still delusional in your beliefs.

"all these pale atheists, anti-Christians [...] they certainly believe they are as completely liberated from the ascetic ideal as possible, these 'free, very free spirits'; and yet they themselves embody it today and perhaps they alone. [...] They are far from being free spirits: for they still have faith in truth" - Nietzsche

robindch

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Explain to me what i am missing out on by not believing in anything religious

I didn't say that you were missing out by not believing in whatever religion-du-jour you happened across. I did say that if you dismiss religion as a banal tonic for the weak-of-mind, then you are missing out on a lot of what makes religion interesting, at least from the point of view of the evolution of culture.

robindch

johnfás wrote: »

the usefulness of which is entirely subjective and based on national identity - which we all know is imagined.

And money is imaginary too, but the general belief that it's real certainly does keep a lot of people very busy a lot of the time.

deise go deo

Fighting Irish wrote: »

lol no


Religion is a crutch for the weak minded

What shread of evedince do you have that god dosent exist?
Your beleife that there is no god is notheing more than faith based on your perceptions.
What is weak minded in beleiving that there is a greater purpose to existence than just pure chemical and evolutionary chance?

liamw

deise go deo wrote: »

What shread of evedince do you have that god dosent exist?
Your beleife that there is no god is notheing more than faith based on your perceptions.

Sam Vimes

deise go deo wrote: »

What shread of evedince do you have that god dosent exist?

Every time I hear a believer pontificate about how their faith is based on reason and how belief in god just makes more sense than non-belief I remember the innumerable times I have heard believers of all races, creeds, colours, levels of education and self opinion suggest that not being able to prove the non-existence of pixies god is enough reason to believe in it and I remember that it's all a load of hot air.

And if you dare mention one of the infinite number of ridiculous things that we cannot prove the non-existence of but which nonetheless no one believes in you're suddenly one of those arrogant atheists ridiculing people's beliefs so you can feel superior :rolleyes:

MagicMarker

deise go deo wrote: »

What shread of evedince do you have that god dosent exist?
Your beleife that there is no god is notheing more than faith based on your perceptions.
What is weak minded in beleiving that there is a greater purpose to existence than just pure chemical and evolutionary chance?

Atheism is NOT faith based.

Just like your disbelief in leprechauns is NOT faith based.

It's been said a thousand times before, but the onus is on you to prove God's existence.

Why does there need to be purpose? What is the purpose of that rock in my back garden?

AudreyHepburn

MagicMarker wrote: »

Atheism is NOT faith based.

Just like your disbelief in leprechauns is NOT faith based.

It's been said a thousand times before, but the onus is on you to prove God's existence.

Why does there need to be purpose? What is the purpose of that rock in my back garden?

But why should we have to prove or justify anything to you? Why is it so hard for you to just accept that we believe in god?

Why do you think it is your right to preach to us how weak-minded we are? Why should you have any more right to your opinions and to speaking them than we do?

Especially since you state that under no circumstance must we be open about our beliefs.

Ickle Magoo

Who's preaching? If you choose to frequent a forum dedicated to religious scepticism and non-believers then you can expect to hear all the reasons why others don't believe in gods and what they think of others that do - just as any day in the religious forum there statements about gays being sinners, those who aren't actually properly married because they didn't choose a church or all the unbelievers who are heading for hell. C'est la vie. :cool:

If someone chooses to post on the A&A forum challenging atheists to prove god doesn't exist, it's fairly standard fair to suggest the onus is not on those who fail to see proof but on those who claim it exists.

AudreyHepburn

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Who's preaching? If you choose to frequent a forum dedicated to religious scepticism and non-believers then you can expect to hear all the reasons why others don't believe in gods and what they think of others that do - just as any day in the religious forum there statements about gays being sinners, those who aren't actually properly married because they didn't choose a church or all the unbelievers who are heading for hell. C'est la vie. :cool:

Of course I know what to expect. I'm not stupid.

I'm just wondering why so many are so unwilling to accept that people can believe and are happy that way. I would never judge anyone for being an athiest. My father is one and it doesn't make me love him any less.

I just don't see why some athiests feel they have the right to ridicule and belittle those with faith, like that poster who said those who believe are weak minded.

I have yet to hear a believer ridicule an athiest like that.

If someone chooses to post on the A&A forum challenging atheists to prove god doesn't exist, it's fairly standard fair to suggest the onus is not on those who fail to see proof but on those who claim it exists.

Where on this thread did I do that?

Dades

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Where on this thread did I do that?

You didn't, to be fair, that was another poster.

However I think you're also guilty of taking one of this thread's posters provative remarks and attributing them to everyone.

AudreyHepburn wrote:

I'm just wondering why so many are so unwilling to accept that people can believe and are happy that way.

I'd like to repeat what I said before: Nobody would have a problem with people's religion if religion minded it's own business.

But it doesn't. It gets involved in all our business.

AudreyHepburn

Dades wrote: »

You didn't, to be fair, that was another poster.

However I think you're also guilty of taking one of this thread's posters provative remarks and attributing them to everyone.

When or where did I ever do that???

Note I said SOME athiests not ALL.

So err....no not guilty!

AudreyHepburn

Dades wrote: »

I'd like to repeat what I said before: Nobody would have a problem with people's religion if religion minded it's own business.

But it doesn't. It gets involved in all our business.

But why should anyone have to keep it to themselves or hide what they believe as if it's a crime?

Ickle Magoo

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Of course I know what to expect. I'm not stupid.

I'm just wondering why so many are so unwilling to accept that people can believe and are happy that way. I would never judge anyone for being an athiest. My father is one and it doesn't make me love him any less.

I just don't see why some athiests feel they have the right to ridicule and belittle those with faith, like that poster who said those who believe are weak minded.

I have yet to hear a believer ridicule an athiest like that.

And yet you expect this forum to bend to your expectations of what should or should not be acceptable discussion? This is a discussion forum, people discuss things, as long as it doesn't fall out-with the charter then anything goes, I'm afraid. I don't like some of the threads in other forums and I know what people say would bug me so I don't read them. As I say, c'est la vie.

I have lost track of the number of insults and insinuations I've seen and heard theists make about atheists, morals reprobates, bad parents, sinners, selfish, hedonistic, going to hell, blah, blah, blah...perhaps you just don't notice it going both ways? It's one of the reasons you rarely see me in the christianity forum, there is little point in me frequenting a forum just so I can feign offence and outrage at what they have every right to discuss. Regardless, I think people should be able and allowed to discuss why they are not religious and why they think others are - thankfully, gone are the days when being theist automatically warranted respect and unquestioning acceptance. If anyone disagrees with a post they can either coherently challenge what has been said, or if it breaks the rules, report it.

For as long as the religious expect others to have to deal with them and their religion in the public arena, they can expect that not everyone is going to tippy-toe around them or appreciate nor respect those beliefs. This forum is brim full of people who want a more secular society in a country where clashing with religion and religious/state intertwining is commonplace - it is always going to be somewhere that posters challenge the logic and rationale for having religious belief, especially towards those theists who want to post here and insist they are in the right or suggest they have some divine right to dictate what others do.

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Where on this thread did I do that?

You didn't but you were questioning why anyone should have to prove or justify anything to a poster who was responding to just such a post.

Ickle Magoo

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

But why should anyone have to keep it to themselves or hide what they believe as if it's a crime?

Isn't that what you're asking others to do?

Dades

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

When or where did I ever do that???

See below. Where did MagicMarker suggest you were weak-minded?

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

...

MagicMarker wrote: »

Atheism is NOT faith based.

Just like your disbelief in leprechauns is NOT faith based.

It's been said a thousand times before, but the onus is on you to prove God's existence.

Why does there need to be purpose? What is the purpose of that rock in my back garden?

Why do you think it is your right to preach to us how weak-minded we are?

Nowhere, I think you'll find. That was suggested by a different poster.

AudreyHepburn

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Isn't that what you're asking others to do?

I never asked any such thing.

I only asked why some athiest can't just accept that people believe in god and respect it instead of feeling the need to ridiucle it.

I would never ever ask some-one to hide what they believe or don't believe or to be ashamed of it.

Each to their own but a little respect and understanding never killed anyone.

Dades

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Dades wrote: »

I'd like to repeat what I said before: Nobody would have a problem with people's religion if religion minded it's own business.

But it doesn't. It gets involved in all our business.

But why should anyone have to keep it to themselves or hide what they believe as if it's a crime?

Nobody has suggested anything that dramatic. You do understand that I'm talking about religion and the church being involved in public policy, right? Like the church running 95% of Irish schools? Can you see how that might bother non-religious tax-payers?

Ickle Magoo

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I never asked any such thing.

I only asked why some athiest can't just accept that people believe in god and respect it instead of feeling the need to ridiucle it.

I would never ever ask some-one to hide what they believe or don't believe or to be ashamed of it.

Each to their own but a little respect and understanding never killed anyone.

Of course you did, you are suggesting that religious people should be allowed to think what ever they want and that atheists can't think religious people are weak minded or say anything that might be construed as disrespectful by the religious about religion!

I wouldn't ask people to hide it either or consider faith a crime, btw, that's just getting slightly hysterical about it all. This is the A&A forum, nobody is campaigning to ban religion, it's just the opposite of religious proselytising - a mutual discussion often regarding rational enlightenment. My only issue on faith comes, ironic given this conversation, when religious people try to dictate what others should do, say or how they should act.

I don't believe any and all beliefs warrant respect and I have tried and failed miserably to understand why anyone would want to dedicate their lives to something they have no idea exists - now I'll just settle for religious folk not insisting their beliefs and wishes impact on my life and having the right to discuss religion and the religious. :cool:

Sam Vimes

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

But why should we have to prove or justify anything to you? Why is it so hard for you to just accept that we believe in god?

Um, his post was in response to someone who demanded we prove that god doesn't exist

robindch

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

But why should anyone have to keep it to themselves or hide what they believe as if it's a crime?

Your own private beliefs are yours and yours alone.

However, once religious people begin to act out the consequences of their religious beliefs in public, then negotiations need to start with everybody else around, especially those who may not share the views. Unfortunately, it's quite common that religious people won't negotiate or compromise on issues that they believe are controlled by their religion, and that makes the negotiation difficult or impossible, and the smooth running of society hard to manage.

For example -- I have a kid and quite apart from the religious control of schools which has already been addressed in this thread, I don't want people talking to her about religion (amongst many other things) until she has developed the emotional, cognitive and critical-thinking skills to be able to deal with it.

But are my wishes for my child ignored by some religious people? Yes, they are. Do you think that's fair?

deise go deo

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Um, his post was in response to someone who demanded we prove that god doesn't exist

I dident ask anyone to prove that god dosent exist.
There is no proof. Its inpossible to Prove one way or the other.
My post was just highlighting that in responce to someone calling me weakminded for my faith.:(