Are teachers taking the p!ss?

poodles

Primary school teachers are able to do a course during the summer which enables them to take an extra 3 days (atleast) personal annual leave. Have they not enough days off a year paid as it is?

Surely if these courses are worth putting on for our teachers then it's a good idea to make them compulsory during mid terms or the like?


Some of the online courses over on http://www.cpdcollege.com/site/summercourses.htm seem a bit 'simple'.



"EPV day is extra personal vacation, although they're usually called course days. If a teacher does a week's inservice course during the summer holidays s/he is entitled to 3 days off during the school year. If they do a 2 week course, they get 4 days and a 3 week course gives 5 days. No sub cover is provided for these days and so the children are usually divided up through the other classes."

I got as far as "Hello" before closing that link.


And you're right, it's a pisstake that they get 3 more days when the kids are actually there to be taught.

starbelgrade

Do you not have something better to do, like homework?

poodles

starbelgrade wrote: »

Do you not have something better to do, like homework?

Do you go around looking for thanks with your sh!t jokes on these boards all day?

Mr Benevolent

poodles wrote: »

Primary school teachers are able to do a course during the summer which enables them to take an extra 3 days (atleast) personal annual leave. Have they not enough days off a year paid as it is?

Surely if these courses are worth putting on for our teachers then it's a good idea to make them compulsory during mid terms or the like?


Some of the online courses over on http://www.cpdcollege.com/site/summercourses.htm seem a bit 'simple'.



"EPV day is extra personal vacation, although they're usually called course days. If a teacher does a week's inservice course during the summer holidays s/he is entitled to 3 days off during the school year. If they do a 2 week course, they get 4 days and a 3 week course gives 5 days. No sub cover is provided for these days and so the children are usually divided up through the other classes."

Ah go complain about something more important, will ya? What year are you in anyway?

starbelgrade

poodles wrote: »

Do you go around looking for thanks with your sh!t jokes on these boards all day?

Not all day. Just evenings mostly.

MrStuffins

OP, You have a problem with teachers having time off right?

When teachers have their time off during the school breaks, what would you suggest they do? How would you improve it?

super_furry

Anyone that can stand up in front of a group of 30 screaming ****s, teaching them when they don't want to learn, deserves all the time off they can get.

poodles

MrStuffins wrote: »

OP, You have a problem with teachers having time off right?

When teachers have their time off during the school breaks, what would you suggest they do? How would you improve it?

They could do some of those courses no?

Pace2008

poodles wrote: »

Rabble rabble rabble.

Rabble rabble rabble.

poodles

Pace2008 wrote: »

Rabble rabble rabble.

.....rabble?

I_AmThe_Walrus

Of course teachers are "taking the piss".

They feed our children folklore tales of no benefit to their academic endeavors or human development, like Mother Goose, the Tooth Fairy, Jolly Green Giant, Flying Spaghetti Monster and Jesus.

Whats more is, the teachings of a language of no use whatsoever in the modern cosmopolitan world is viewed as a significant area of the education curriculum.

Lastly, our education system needs to be turned on it's head. That god awful fear of 'better past the Leaving our God will forsake you' attitude towards, what is, little more than a farce is destroying our childrens self-esteem and creating "classes" in society which roughly takes one week at best.

Why not have the Leaving Certificate over several months? It would be far more practical and beneficial with attendance records counting for a percentage of your overall grade.

What a useless system it is...

astra2000

Yep it is a p**s take but you cant blame the teachers they do the course they are entitled to whatever their employer(our government) decides they get. I think all these courses should take place outside term time and should be compulsary with no other time off for doing them, likewise I think paying secondary school teachers extra for supervising and correcting state exams is ludicrous!!! this should be part of their job. Dont get me wrong I believe they have a very stressful and important job (as plenty of people in other occupations do to) and I value the job they do very much but I do believe that 5/6 weeks during the summer is ample holidays!

Coriolanus

I don't see the problem. Last time I checked they weren't able to claim overtime for correcting stuff out of ours etc.

DebDynamite

MrStuffins wrote: »

OP, You have a problem with teachers having time off right?

When teachers have their time off during the school breaks, what would you suggest they do? How would you improve it?

I would suggest they run summer camps to help working parents out.

Summer holidays should ideally be only 6 weeks as it is in Britain. The reason they were 3/2 months long was to allow country children help out on the farm during the summer months. They're far too long and inconvenient for parents in this day and age.

Pace2008

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

Of course teachers are "taking the piss".

They feed our children folklore tales of no benefit to their academic endeavors or human development, like Mother Goose, the Tooth Fairy, Jolly Green Giant, Flying Spaghetti Monster and Jesus.

Whats more is, the teachings of a language of no use whatsoever in the modern cosmopolitan world is viewed as a significant area of the education curriculum.

Lastly, our education system needs to be turned on it's head. That god awful fear of 'better past the Leaving our God will forsake you' attitude towards, what is, little more than a farce is destroying our childrens self-esteem and creating "classes" in society which roughly takes one week at best.

Why not have the Leaving Certificate over several months? It would be far more practical and beneficial with attendance records counting for a percentage of your overall grade.

What a useless system it is...

The teachers do not determine the curriculum, they adhere to it as is required by their contract.

Cypher_sounds

Let teachers do what they want in the summer, oh wow they going on a course to further their own education...i say fair play to them...and your just jealous :pac:

poodles

Nevore wrote: »

I don't see the problem. Last time I checked they weren't able to claim overtime for correcting stuff out of ours etc.

Well a secondary school teacher won't work straight 9 to 4:30 every day.
They have 'free peroids'.

By your logic - teachers shouldn't get paid for the hours that they have 'free' during the day. Incidently, this is usually when they do their 'overtime' correction stuff.

And from what I remember of my secondary school days teachers had very little of this correcting stuff...maybe at summer time and christmas time exams...boo hoo.

Coriolanus

poodles wrote: »

Well a secondary school teacher won't work straight 9 to 4:30 every day.
They have 'free peroids'.

By your logic - teachers shouldn't get paid for the hours that they have 'free' during the day. Incidently, this is usually when they do their 'overtime' correction stuff.

And from what I remember of my secondary school days teachers had very little of this correcting stuff...maybe at summer time and christmas time exams...boo hoo.

No, I'd agree with that. They shouldn't be paid for free periods unless they're doing admin or paperwork.

How many hours on average would they be teaching anyway?

poodles

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Let teachers do what they want in the summer, oh wow they going on a course to further their own education...i say fair play to them...and your just jealous :pac:

Lol - further their education?

Click on the link in the OP and see what these courses entail...

'Know your laptop' or 'CREATING POWERPOINT LESSONS FOR THE CLASSROOM'

Surely these are things that teachers should know how to do...
I remember teachers when I was in secondary school (i'm 25 now) that couldn't even operate a tape player for Aurals practice..

poodles

Nevore wrote: »

No, I'd agree with that. They shouldn't be paid for free periods unless they're doing admin or paperwork.

How many hours on average would they be teaching anyway?

My dad was a secondary school teacher and he'd usually have 2-3 periods a day 'free'

think there was 7 periods (40 mins each) in my school per day...

chatjunkie

poodles wrote: »

Primary school teachers are able to do a course during the summer which enables them to take an extra 3 days (atleast) personal annual leave. Have they not enough days off a year paid as it is?

Surely if these courses are worth putting on for our teachers then it's a good idea to make them compulsory during mid terms or the like?


Some of the online courses over on http://www.cpdcollege.com/site/summercourses.htm seem a bit 'simple'.



"EPV day is extra personal vacation, although they're usually called course days. If a teacher does a week's inservice course during the summer holidays s/he is entitled to 3 days off during the school year. If they do a 2 week course, they get 4 days and a 3 week course gives 5 days. No sub cover is provided for these days and so the children are usually divided up through the other classes."

Dear OP, I am a primary school teacher and I want to point out that last year for example I ended up using two of my course days for funerals, one being an 83 year old next door neighbour to my home house. If I find not have a course day I could not have gone and the man meant a lot to my family and I. YEs, sub cover is not provided but we teachers set work for ous children, prepare it with them beforehand and correct it after. Plus we pay for these courses out of our own pockets. ANd another point I glue had to miss two very good friends weddings in the last year also because they were on Fridays and I had used my course days for funerals!!!!!

starbelgrade

chatjunkie wrote: »

Dear OP, I am a primary school teacher and I want to point out that last year for example I ended up using two of my course days for funerals, one being an 83 year old next door neighbour to my home house. If I find not have a course day I could not have gone and the man meant a lot to my family and I. YEs, sub cover is not provided but we teachers set work for ous children, prepare it with them beforehand and correct it after. Plus we pay for these courses out of our own pockets. ANd another point I glue had to miss two very good friends weddings in the last year also because they were on Fridays and I had used my course days for funerals!!!!!

I sincerely hope that you don't teach English.

Ollchailin

Ah for God's sake, you'd swear by the OP that this was news (ok, clearly it is to him/her, but if they're that anti-teacher you'd think they'd have this info already).

My mother has been teaching for over 35 years & for as long as I remember she did a course every summer for a week to get her course days. Now of course what the OP doesn't mention is that the majority of these courses have to be paid for out of the individual teacher's pocket (and ok, they don't cost a fortune, but still).

Also, most other people who go on courses to learn new skills/ update themselves do so during their own working hours. Teachers can't do that and need to do it during their time off. People would be complaining if teachers didn't take these courses to learn new things. There's no pleasing some people.

Oh, and also: rabble rabble rabble big bad useless teachers rabble rabble rabble (just for balance like)

poodles

chatjunkie wrote: »

Dear OP, I am a primary school teacher and I want to point out that last year for example I ended up using two of my course days for funerals, one being an 83 year old next door neighbour to my home house. If I find not have a course day I could not have gone and the man meant a lot to my family and I. YEs, sub cover is not provided but we teachers set work for ous children, prepare it with them beforehand and correct it after. Plus we pay for these courses out of our own pockets. ANd another point I glue had to miss two very good friends weddings in the last year also because they were on Fridays and I had used my course days for funerals!!!!!

Thanks for replying, but I think you'll find that many working in this day and age won't get a day off for the funeral of a neighbour. Usualy strictly family funerals only.

The courses don't cost a whole lot now do they? You'd swear it was a raw deal - some of these online courses cost €25 to which u get the equivalent of 3 days pay?

Ollchailin

poodles wrote: »

Lol - further their education?

Click on the link in the OP and see what these courses entail...

'Know your laptop' or 'CREATING POWERPOINT LESSONS FOR THE CLASSROOM'

Surely these are things that teachers should know how to do...
I remember teachers when I was in secondary school (i'm 25 now) that couldn't even operate a tape player for Aurals practice..

I can guarantee you that there are loads of teachers out there who can't use powerpoint. Certainly most teachers over 40 probably never did it in college. So surely these courses are a good idea to teach people how to use them.

Trampas

they pay for the courses out of their own money also

up for anything

chatjunkie wrote: »

ANd another point I glue had to miss two very good friends weddings in the last year also because they were on Fridays and I had used my course days for funerals!!!!!

Boo hoo.

In France, secondary school teachers have to continue working for another four or five weeks running state Summer camps. I have a friend whose children attend a sailing Summer camp every year. 8am to 6pm, five days a week for €40. Compare that to the private gougers in this country where you can pay up to €90 for a Summer camp that lasts five mornings in the week if you are lucky.

poodles

Ollchailin wrote: »

Ah for God's sake, you'd swear by the OP that this was news (ok, clearly it is to him/her, but if they're that anti-teacher you'd think they'd have this info already).

My mother has been teaching for over 35 years & for as long as I remember she did a course every summer for a week to get her course days. Now of course what the OP doesn't mention is that the majority of these courses have to be paid for out of the individual teacher's pocket (and ok, they don't cost a fortune, but still).

Also, most other people who go on courses to learn new skills/ update themselves do so during their own working hours. Teachers can't do that and need to do it during their time off. People would be complaining if teachers didn't take these courses to learn new things. There's no pleasing some people.

Oh, and also: rabble rabble rabble big bad useless teachers rabble rabble rabble (just for balance like)

Sorry - I forgot to mention that a whole €25 is the price a teacher can pay to get 3 free days off work paid...

A lot of other people you speak of do Night Courses and not during their working hours. Teacher's could do mandatory courses during mid terms.

And no it's not news to me - both my parents were teachers - one primarty and the other secondary.

Times have changed over the past few years. Cut backs need to be made and I think theres plenty scope in the teacher area.

poodles

Ollchailin wrote: »

I can guarantee you that there are loads of teachers out there who can't use powerpoint. Certainly most teachers over 40 probably never did it in college. So surely these courses are a good idea to teach people how to use them.

I agree.
And I guarantee that there of loads of teachers that simply can't teach or hold a classes attention either.

Exactly so, these courses could be done during the weeks of already paid leave that teachers have through a school calandar (easter, christmas, halloween etc.)

bigbadbear

I think primary and secondary are two different kettles of fish really.

The professionalism of primary teachers is leagues ahead. There's so much background stuff and preparation and their whole day is a psychology game.

brummytom

Nevore wrote: »

I don't see the problem. Last time I checked they weren't able to claim overtime for correcting stuff out of ours etc.

Exactly. Anyone who whinges that teachers 'have it easy' are obviously ignorant.

I'm sure there's no other job on the same pay that requires the same amount of work outside work hours. I come from a family of teachers, you wouldn't believe the mental distress it causes.


Teachers, like many other professions, don't get anywhere near the respect they deserve.

starbelgrade

brummytom wrote: »

Teachers, like many other professions, don't get anywhere near the respect they deserve.

Teachers smell of wee wee.

caseyann

Does that mean they are going to tell your kids how long they can be sick for again,so they can get more days off :rolleyes:

byhookorbycrook

Course days cost the DES nothing,as your class is split. I don't see too many other profession paying out of their own pocket to upskill.

If your child is getting communion/confirmation, you are not entitled to time off,weddings/funerals etc. liekwise.Hence the need for a personal day. Primary teachers don't pull sickies,they use course days for whatever.

Tootle

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Course days cost the DES nothing,as your class is split. I don't see too many other profession paying out of their own pocket to upskill.

If your child is getting communion/confirmation, you are not entitled to time off,weddings/funerals etc. liekwise.Hence the need for a personal day. Primary teachers don't pull sickies,they use course days for whatever.

Eh? Loads of professions pay for their own courses. Doctors, Physios, Solicitors to name a few.
And I and others have to miss friends weddings and neighbours funerals as I cant get the time off. It is a fact that teachers holidays are too long and working days too short when compared with other EU countries.

Big Nasty

chatjunkie wrote: »

Dear OP, I am a primary school teacher and I want to point out that last year for example I ended up using two of my course days for funerals, one being an 83 year old next door neighbour to my home house. If I find not have a course day I could not have gone and the man meant a lot to my family and I. YEs, sub cover is not provided but we teachers set work for ous children, prepare it with them beforehand and correct it after. Plus we pay for these courses out of our own pockets. ANd another point I glue had to miss two very good friends weddings in the last year also because they were on Fridays and I had used my course days for funerals!!!!!

Why don't you take one of your paid sick days, or why not just take the week of as you have a dose of the sniffles?

xOxSinéadxOx

Yeah why should they have 3 days off for courses they did during the summer when they're being paid during the summer anyway? what the hell?

poodles

brummytom wrote: »

Exactly. Anyone who whinges that teachers 'have it easy' are obviously ignorant.

I'm sure there's no other job on the same pay that requires the same amount of work outside work hours. I come from a family of teachers, you wouldn't believe the mental distress it causes.


Teachers, like many other professions, don't get anywhere near the respect they deserve.

Fact is that teachers do their 'outside work' during free periods of which they get paid for anyways.

McNulty737

Exactly. Anyone who whinges that teachers 'have it easy' are obviously ignorant.

I'm sure there's no other job on the same pay that requires the same amount of work outside work hours. I come from a family of teachers, you wouldn't believe the mental distress it causes.


Teachers, like many other professions, don't get anywhere near the respect they deserve.

THEY GET FIVE MONTHS PAID LEAVE EVERY YEAR.

pablo_escobar

Majority of teachers in Ireland provide a mediocre standard of education and are grossly overpaid for it.

Their sincerity in teaching lacks credibility and it's really benefits and salary of the job which are of higher priority to them.

I'd put a reasonable offer on the table to each teacher in this country with the clear understanding if it wasn't satisfactory, feel free moving to another country.

bon voyage!

Where exactly are they going to go and get better T&C than here in Ireland?

Teachers have it extremely good and easy in Ireland.
They should continually remind themselves of how lucky they are.

mikemac

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

Whats more is, the teachings of a language of no use whatsoever in the modern cosmopolitan world is viewed as a significant area of the education curriculum.

Lastly, our education system needs to be turned on it's head. That god awful fear of 'better past the Leaving our God will forsake you' attitude towards, what is, little more than a farce is destroying our childrens self-esteem and creating "classes" in society which roughly takes one week at best.

Why not have the Leaving Certificate over several months? It would be far more practical and beneficial with attendance records counting for a percentage of your overall grade.

What a useless system it is...

What has that go to do with teachers?
The Department of Eduction staffed by the civil service decide the curriculum. Teachers just follow what they are told to do

bigbadbear

McNulty737 wrote: »

THEY GET FIVE MONTHS PAID LEAVE EVERY YEAR.

Incorrect

poodles

Ollchailin wrote: »

Also, most other people who go on courses to learn new skills/ update themselves do so during their own working hours. Teachers can't do that and need to do it during their time off. People would be complaining if teachers didn't take these courses to learn new things. There's no pleasing some people.

Lol - I wonder how many would seek to further their skills (even if it were free - or even for the sake of their €25) if they didn't get the 3 days out of it?

Big Nasty

I know a teacher who takes up to a week off at the drop of a hat for a common cold. I also sat in company with a group of femal teachers who discussed how the best time to conceive was around Christmas as they would be off from that June until the following March, or even the following Sept (i.e. 15 months) if they took an additional two months unpaid leave!

brummytom

poodles wrote: »

Fact is that teachers do their 'outside work' during free periods of which they get paid for anyways.

No they don't

McNulty737 wrote: »

THEY GET FIVE MONTHS PAID LEAVE EVERY YEAR.

Ahh right, they don't here. Your holidays are ridiculous actually

RolandIRL

bigbadbear wrote: »

Incorrect

not really. 3 months off during summer + 2 weeks each at Easter and Christmas + 2 weeks off for midterm breaks + all bank holidays = roughly 4 and a half months.

poodles

brummytom wrote: »

No they don't



Ahh right, they don't here. Your holidays are ridiculous actually

As regards Secondary school teachers - yes they do.

And if they don't, then their argument that they do lots of preparation work and corrections at home goes out the window.

A full time teacher will not work a full 9-16:30 as mentioned above - they'll get 'free periods' - WHICH THEY GET PAID FOR

brummytom

poodles wrote: »

As regards Secondary school teachers - yes they do.

And if they don't, then their argument that they do lots of preparation work and corrections at home goes out the window.

A full time teacher will not work a full 9-16:30 as mentioned above - they'll get 'free periods' - WHICH THEY GET PAID FOR

They'll normally have two or three free periods a week, during which they can be (and often are) called upon to fill in for an absent teacher and take a class.

An average teacher will teach 5-7 different groups a week, do you really think they can do all marking and lesson prep in their few free periods? Cop on

poodles

brummytom wrote: »

They'll normally have two or three free periods a week, during which they can be (and often are) to fill in for an absent teacher and take a class.

An average teacher will teach 5-7 different groups a week, do you really think they can do all marking and lesson prep in their few free periods? Cop on

try anything up to 3 free periods a day. And anytime a teacher would 'fill in' for an absent teacher - they would usually sit at the desk and let the students study or do their homework.

stop trying to pull the other one - we all went to school.

slainte1

I have been listening to the same mis-informed, misguided and prejudiced comments about teachers and their working conditions for most of my career.
The DES consider that teachers spending five days during their holidays attending a CPD course, which entitles them to three days leave, represents good value for money. It is important to bear in mind that just over 50% of those EPV days are never availed of.
Irish Primary teachers work in the second worst pupil-teacher ratio in the EU and our combined spend on first and second level education is third from the bottom in the EU.
Irish primary teachers at induction and qualification have the highest requirement in Europe except for Finland.
The myths about teachers' hours abound. Lay people should bear in mind that you could require teachers to work 12 hour days if you like but who would benefit ? Certainly not the children.
I am aware that more and more parents want teachers to be in school not to teach but to babysit.
Irish society has been well served by a cohort of teachers that are highly trained. If any of you that can provide an example from anywhere in the developed world of an educational system that excels while not valuing its front line practitioners I would be more than surprised.
I should declare my background. I worked as a Primary School Principal in a deprived inner city school. I also worked as a DES inspector and in latter years I lectured in a College of Education.