Are teachers taking the p!ss?

Strata

patfol wrote: »

Firstly, I am a primary school teacher and I can honestly put my hand on my heart and say that I never met anyone in college who said that they had decided to study to be a teacher because of the long holidays. Everyone who stuck it out had a genuine love of kids and their education. We went into teacher training college straight from school so I think we hadn't internalised the fact that we'd be giving up school holidays by going out into the general non-teaching workforce. Does anyone actually think that at 18 years of age we were so forward thinking as to plan a career around a job that had extended holidays?
Secondly, I dare anyone to question the working hours of the teachers in my school. The kids go home at 2.45 and the teachers' carpark is still fairly full at 4.00 pm.
As a final point I always quote a colleague who came to work in our school as a language teacher straight from a job in A.O.L. She had a T.E.F.L. qualifiaction but no background in teaching. I was chatting to her one day and said it must be great for her to have such a short working day and to be finished so early and her reply was "Well I'm finished much earlier but I'm so wrecked I have to go to bed for a few hours when I get home. I'm much more tired than when I got home at 5 from A.O.L."
And as an adendum: I've never worked outside teaching so maybe this is not unprecedented but teachers' coffee/lunch breaks are mostly taken up with conferring about kids and updating fellow teachers with kids details/ needs/ etc.
I know everyone can't be tarred with same brush but it still bugs me when people post threads or pass comments that suggest teachers become teachers just for the benefits or the holidays. I would make one suggestion to the sceptical:
If you have kids, offer to help out on the school tour. Every year our helper parents come back from tours with an increased respect for teachers and the usual comment is "I don't know how you do it"
and if you don't have kids you have absolutuely no business commenting on this thread.

By this logic then someone can't have an opinion on politician's expenses because they're not a politician!

I think the fact that I, you know, pay your wages gives me a right to have an opinion and comment on this thread.

gaeilgegrinds1

I didn't read all this as I don't have the time or real interest. I chose to be a teacher and am very good at it. However, I've been spat at, spanked and had my car bashed in one school I taught in. I got no support. Management was on-existant. I had a miscarriage and was told to come in the following Monday, end of story. I earn a lot less than most of my friends who chose other jobs based on salary etc but I love what I do, I make a real difference. I just can't get over all the hatred here!

Tipp Man

Fizzical wrote: »

Tipp Man,

Q1 again. I said that my pay is for my job as it is - hours and holidays included. That's not how I'm being paid, that's what I'm being paid for. In other words, I'm being paid for 9 months work but the pay is spread out over 12 months. That's the job! If someone in the private sector is being paid the same amount for 12 months work, it's because the work is not comparable.

unbelievable, its simple comprehension

right plain simple english, a solicitor and a teacher both earn 55k, but the solicitor has to work 47 weeks for that money while the teacher works 34 weeks for the same money. Now my question is simple on what grounds is the teacher getting such better holidays (and therefore lifestyle) than the solicitor? Some possible reasons might be if:

1: the teacher worked longer hours in the 34 weeks than the solicitor?
2: the teacher had to work harder at school in 6th year to get better points in the leaving cert as the relevant teachers course required more points than the law course
3: the teachers course at uni was significantly more difficult and time demanding than the law course
4: the teachers job was much more stressful than the solicitors
5. upon finishing uni and starting work the teacher then had to do a couple of years evening study to get better qualified and professional qualified, the solicitor didn't

etc etc etc

So therefore I ask for the final time, on what grounds does the teacher deserve to get so much longer holidays than the solicitor???

Stark

k_mac wrote: »

Whats there to justify? The schools are closed. You think they should teach empty classrooms?

There are State exams to correct and supervise. This should be part of the job requirements, not something you get extra bonus pay for doing.

k_mac wrote: »

What makes them so special is that they are doing a more important job which contributes much more to society than most other professions.

And you wonder where all the hate is coming from? When you stop coming out with statements like this, you will have a far greater chance of people warming to you.

k_mac wrote: »

I think it was already mentioned that, unlike in the private sector, the chances of promotion from being a teacher are slim to none. In addition, you cannot look to work for another company with better pay. There is only the one. So the increments make up for the fact that no amount of personal or professional performance will allow you to find a job with better pay.

I think that's a fair enough point.

k_mac wrote: »

Out of interest, how exactly do you think teachers performance should be measured? Maybe an IQ test at the start and end of every year for students? How do you measure the knowledge gained by the students?

Performance measurement is something that's done in all private sector jobs and there are no easy measurements there either. But it is often very easy to pick out the wasters. You don't need to do IQ tests to see who's down the pub every lunchtime and who's actually putting the work in with the students. We've all had a few of those waster teachers in our time. It's crazy that they're all now on the same money as someone who's worked hard all their lives and has risen above their peers. And at the expense of those people as well. Even the civil service has PMDS. Very few people don't get their increment but there is a possibility.

k_mac wrote: »

Your posts basically read like "it's not fair, they get more than me". The reason is because what teachers do is more important a job than almost any other in this country. Definitely more important than any job in the private sector. Thats just the way it is.

Again with the self important bullcrap.

Doc

Tipp Man wrote: »

unbelievable, its simple comprehension

right plain simple english, a solicitor and a teacher both earn 55k, but the solicitor has to work 47 weeks for that money while the teacher works 34 weeks for the same money. Now my question is simple on what grounds is the teacher getting such better holidays (and therefore lifestyle) than the solicitor? Some possible reasons might be if:

1: the teacher worked longer hours in the 34 weeks than the solicitor?
2: the teacher had to work harder at school in 6th year to get better points in the leaving cert as the relevant teachers course required more points than the law course
3: the teachers course at uni was significantly more difficult and time demanding than the law course
4: the teachers job was much more stressful than the solicitors
5. upon finishing uni and starting work the teacher then had to do a couple of years evening study to get better qualified and professional qualified, the solicitor didn't

etc etc etc

So therefore I ask for the final time, on what grounds does the teacher deserve to get so much longer holidays than the solicitor???

Are you telling me a solicitor with 21 years experience would only earn 55k a year?

Because that’s how long a teacher would have to be working before they earned that amount.

charlemont

Fighting Irish wrote: »

I knew how well teachers got paid and how many hols they had, but at the time carpenters were getting paid better so i decided to do carpentry. Now i've lost my job and i hate teachers

you hate teachers!!! without teachers we would not learn anything ..thats a ridiculous thing to say..

Feeded

Doc wrote: »

Are you telling me a solicitor with 21 years experience would only earn 55k a year?

Because that’s how long a teacher would have to be working before they earned that amount.

i feel that continuing this debate is pointless. . . One side has the experience of the job while the other hasn't. . . I'm not revisiting this thread any longer. . . I enjoyed the banter. . Congrats Tipp Man on the recent success of the u21 hurlers. .

gaeilgegrinds1

Asking what grounds we get the holidays on is a bit strange I think. We get the holidays because our place of work closes and our clients are not there, clear?!

gaeilgegrinds1

Also wondering why points are mentioned? Do you know that the points for courses are the LEAST you can get? We have at least three teachers in my school who could have done medicine, but didn't want to. So arguing teachers got low points is a no-brainer really.

MagicSean

Stark wrote: »

And you wonder where all the hate is coming from? When you stop coming out with statements like this, you will have a far greater chance of people warming to you.

What hate towards me? I'm not a teacher.

Stark wrote: »

Performance measurement is something that's done in all private sector jobs and there are no easy measurements there either. But it is often very easy to pick out the wasters. You don't need to do IQ tests to see who's down the pub every lunchtime and who's actually putting the work in with the students. We've all had a few of those waster teachers in our time. It's crazy that they're all now on the same money as someone who's worked hard all their lives and has risen above their peers. And at the expense of those people as well. Even the civil service has PMDS. Very few people don't get their increment but there is a possibility.

In primary school my teacher smoked in class, went to the chipper every day and came in hungover. Having said that he was the best teacher I had. Learnt more from him than anyone else.

Stark wrote: »

Again with the self important bullcrap.

Again its not about me.

Tipp Man

Feeded wrote: »

i feel that continuing this debate is pointless. . . One side has the experience of the job while the other hasn't. . . I'm not revisiting this thread any longer. . . I enjoyed the banter. . Congrats Tipp Man on the recent success of the u21 hurlers. .

thanks

If the seniors can build on the game against Galway we can give the Cats another serious run for their money (after we give the blaas the absolute hiding that i so so desperately want us to give them)

Tipp Man

Doc wrote: »

Are you telling me a solicitor with 21 years experience would only earn 55k a year?

Because that’s how long a teacher would have to be working before they earned that amount.

Where on earth are you getting 21 years experience from?

Stark

Doc wrote: »

Are you telling me a solicitor with 21 years experience would only earn 55k a year?

Because that’s how long a teacher would have to be working before they earned that amount.

You only have to work 10 years as a teacher before you're on 55k. You're failing to take into account qualification allowances on top of the basic salary.

Tipp Man

gaeilgegrinds1 wrote: »

Asking what grounds we get the holidays on is a bit strange I think. We get the holidays because our place of work closes and our clients are not there, clear?!

So why is the taxpayer paying many many thousands of pounds each year to have the state exams supervised and corrected?? As far as I am aware the vast majority of state exams are done in schools which is your place of work

Why can't summer camps and/or summer schools be run during some of the 3 months off?

gaeilgegrinds1 wrote: »

Also wondering why points are mentioned? Do you know that the points for courses are the LEAST you can get? We have at least three teachers in my school who could have done medicine, but didn't want to. So arguing teachers got low points is a no-brainer really.

I have never argued that teachers get low points, you have minterpreted completely what i said. I asked was the possibility of having to work harder at school whilst students a possible reason for having such an unbelievable work perk as 18 weeks holidays? i.e do you have to work harder to become a teacher than a solicitor?

oide10

There is no job easy!

For those of you who don't teach you don't see the amount of time and effort that goes in to the job after hours...the planning, the correcting, coming up with individual educational plans for children who are having difficulties, doing courses (which we pay for), sorting out incidents of bullying, pushing for entitlements for children with special needs etc.

I love my job, it is rewarding and fulfilling. Of course I am delighted that I have two months off during the summer. I haven't been sitting down twiddling my thumbs, in this time I am doing two courses, I have organised my class for next year and have started lesson plans and termly schemes.

I realise that some of you unfortunately may have had a poor experience of the education system yourselves, it makes me wonder if this is fueling the bitterness in some of the posts. It seems that some people really have a hatred for others based on what they do for a living!

By the way the majority of summer camps are run by teachers during the summer holidays.

Stark

oide10 wrote: »

There is no job easy!

For those of you who don't teach you don't see the amount of time and effort that goes in to the job after hours...the planning, the correcting, coming up with individual educational plans for children who are having difficulties, doing courses (which we pay for), sorting out incidents of bullying, pushing for entitlements for children with special needs etc.

I do. But it's no more than the extra workload that other professionals with similar pay and conditions take on.

Princess Fiona

I would suggest they run summer camps to help working parents out.

Without a doubt the most unbelievable post of this whole thread. Just shows the attitude to education among many parents. Teachers are seen as babysitters, education is seen as a childminding service. School is so handy the way it "helps working parents out". Never mind the bit about it teaching your child to read, write and function in society.

This did the rounds around the time of the paycuts - couldn't find a "Euro" version, apologies!

Are you sick of high paid teachers?
Teachers' hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year! It's time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do - baby sit! We can get that for less than minimum wage.
That's right. Let's give them $3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be $19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM with 45 min. off for lunch and planning period ... that equals 6 1/2 hours). Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children.
Now how many do they teach in day ... maybe 30? So that's $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day. However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations. LET'S SEE...
That's $585 X 180= $105,300 per year (hold on! My calculator needs new batteries).
What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master's degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75), and just to be fair, round it up to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children X 180 days = $280,800 per year.
Wait a minute... there's something wrong here!
There sure is! The average teacher's salary (nation wide) is $50,000. So $50,000/180 days = $277.77/per day/30 students=$9.25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student... a very inexpensive baby sitter and they even EDUCATE your children!
WHAT A DEAL!

mat cauthon

if anyone wishes to be a teacher, then do so. If not then shut up the whinging.
If people despise teachers so much, stay at home and homeeducate your kids.
Good oldfashioned Irish home grown begrudgery. Mother Ireland is rearing them yet......

Stark

mat_cauthon wrote: »

if anyone wishes to be a teacher, then do so. If not then shut up the whinging.

If the pay and conditions aren't good enough for you, get yourself another job. If not then shut up the whinging.

mat cauthon wrote: »

If people despise teachers so much, stay at home and homeeducate your kids.

You still have to pay the teachers even if you do so!

byhookorbycrook

"It was this unofficial “parental appraisal” that struck me. Whether they like what they’re doing or not, teachers have to get through their working day. Unlike the rest of us however, they are accountable not only to their bosses, but also to us, the parents. A rose-tinted glass-wearing motley crew who expect their precious offspring to be educated, motivated, entertained, socialised and disciplined by that poor soul who faces down our brats and their mates, day in and out.

For coping with what we have produced and, for the most part, not damaging them too badly when the temptation to destroy must be enormous, I salute the teacher. You deserve your ridiculous holidays. You deserve them because, to paraphrase Captain Kirk, you boldly go where most of us fear to tread."


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2010/0629/1224273541759.html

byhookorbycrook

Stark wrote: »

If the pay and conditions aren't good enough for you, get yourself another job. If not then shut up the whinging.



You still have to pay the teachers even if you do so!

So do people who have no children. Should they be exempt from tax or pay less?Should I contribute towards health care in my taxes even if I do not use it???

mat cauthon

like most teachers, I thoroughly enjoy my pay and conditions. And worked damn hard to get them. And work damn hard to deliver my best in overloaded classroom.

Beats office work. I challange to do my job, do it well, and then, and only then are you ready to comment.

uriah

poodles wrote: »

Sorry yea, the thread moved from Primary to Secondary :>

Obviously the free periods are about secondary teachers.

I'd imagine primary teachers are run off their feet moreso than secondary counterparts (and they get a months less holiday!)

but I suppose schools finishes at what, 2:30? Sweet init?

Irish primary teachers teach about 200 hours per year more than the EU and OECD average.

Not that you will be interested in the facts, I expect

And there is no way that anyone could teach large groups of young children for longer than five hours per day. Young children couldn't take it and any adult couldn't do it.

ShamoBuc

Teaching is a very tough job, both primary and secondary. Having worked 12hr shift work for ten years I know how it is to feel tired after a days work. I went into teaching a number of years ago and I can honestly admit to being knackered and regularly nod off on the couch about 4 or 5 o'clock after a days teaching. Some days are better than others. It is a great job, with many perks, but it is a tough job, both mentally and physically. I took a paycut to go teaching but it was not about the money, it was not about the perks either. I had enough of my job and wanted a change. Some people on here just want to 'bitch' - which is fair enough, but is it out of envy? or because they do not have a job? or because they think they could do the job better? When the celtic tiger was roaring and people were on big money, as much overtime as they wanted and bounses being paid every few months - nobody commented on teachers, but now we are fair game? Strange that!

Donkey Oaty

mat cauthon wrote: »

like most teachers, I thoroughly enjoy my pay and conditions. And worked damn hard to get them. And work damn hard to deliver my best in overloaded classroom.

Beats office work. I challange to do my job, do it well, and then, and only then are you ready to comment.

Are you chewing?

Donkey Oaty

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Teaching is a very tough job, both primary and secondary. Having worked 12hr shift work for ten years I know how it is to feel tired after a days work. I went into teaching a number of years ago and I can honestly admit to being knackered and regularly nod off on the couch about 4 or 5 o'clock after a days teaching. Some days are better than others. It is a great job, with many perks, but it is a tough job, both mentally and physically. I took a paycut to go teaching but it was not about the money, it was not about the perks either. I had enough of my job and wanted a change. Some people on here just want to 'bitch' - which is fair enough, but is it out of envy? or because they do not have a job? or because they think they could do the job better? When the celtic tiger was roaring and people were on big money, as much overtime as they wanted and bounses being paid every few months - nobody commented on teachers, but now we are fair game? Strange that!

6/10


Some interesting points, but let down by poor grammar.

Donkey Oaty

uriah wrote: »

And there is no way that anyone could teach large groups of young children for longer than five hours per day. Young children couldn't take it and any adult couldn't do it.

I have done so, in circumstances outside the Irish education system.

That doesn't make it right, I admit.

uriah

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

So do people who have no children. Should they be exempt from tax or pay less?Should I contribute towards health care in my taxes even if I do not use it???

No, the people who have no children should have to pay extra tax as they are not rearing the future generation who will work to pay their pensions and nurse them in their old age.

If you are involved in a road accident, the emergency services who pick you up, take you to the hospital and treat you will need to be paid.
And in order for them to be there when/if you need them, they need to be employed and paid all the time.

Unless you are God, of course, and need no human help or contact.

Donkey Oaty

uriah wrote: »

No, the people who have no children should have to pay extra tax as they are not rearing the future generation who will work to pay their pensions and nurse them in their old age.

If you are involved in a road accident, the emergency services who pick you up, take you to the hospital and treat you will need to be paid.
And in order for them to be there when/if you need them, they need to be employed and paid all the time.

Unless you are God, of course, and need no human help or contact.

Hello Uriah.

I wonder if you could confirm that you have thought through the above thoughts and that your comments were not just a knee-jerk reaction to another post.

Before I unleash the dogs.

mat cauthon

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Hello Uriah.

I wonder if you could confirm that you have thought through the above thoughts and that your comments were not just a knee-jerk reaction to another post.

Before I unleash the dogs.

I reckon that the comments uriah made are excellent - after all, if you need the firebrigade, you need itnow - and its no good saying you cant have it you didnt contribute to the emergency service fund.

Todays tots will pay tomorrows pensions. They will be tomorrows road builders, engineers cardiothoracic surgeons and nuclear physicts. They will nurse us, care for us, and maintain our environment.

If you wish to opt out of all future support from society because you dont have children, then I wish you luck. But you wont do it.
You will benefit from other peoples children.
So pay for them.

ShamoBuc

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

6/10


Some interesting points, but let down by poor grammar.

The comedy factor and nit pickyness of AH never ceases to amaze me:)

Fighting Irish

charlemont wrote: »

you hate teachers!!! without teachers we would not learn anything ..thats a ridiculous thing to say..

I was being sarcastic

byhookorbycrook

This past school year, I attended 11 inservice evenings on my own time,I spent half of my Easter holidays training for a pilot project our school ran, I am doing a summer course on special needs,paid for out of my own pocket(€100.) This is before I ever tackle my paperwork.
I buy prizes for children out of my own money,to celebrate their work.I don't expect the school to pay for this, because money raised for the school has to go on more basic things like heating and insurance.


The DES were to introduce IEPs for children under EPSEN with the resources to support them. No resources,no training, but teachers have taken on the IEP process for the good of the children.Likewise with exceptionally able children, DES produced guidelines but no actual help in the form of learning support/resource hours. They have slashed provision for children with special needs and expect parents and schools to pick up the slack.

YES, my holidays are a good perk, but I work hard and I hope I do my best for my children.Like most people, I thought I knew what I was signing up to when I took on teaching.The world and the educational sphere have changed drastically since I began teaching and I do my best to upskill on my own time to keep up.I LOVE my job-and not for July and August, if you were only in this job for the holidays,you would never last. I live for the child who makes a breakthrough,however small,for the child who suddenly grasps something they had struggled with,for the child who grows in confidence and self-worth.

I am fed up of people who have no idea of the reality of teaching today telling me how easy I have it. I don't knock your job, please respect mine.

2manyconditions

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

This past school year, I attended 11 inservice evenings on my own time,I spent half of my Easter holidays training for a pilot project our school ran, I am doing a summer course on special needs,paid for out of my own pocket(€100.) This is before I ever tackle my paperwork.
I buy prizes for children out of my own money,to celebrate their work.I don't expect the school to pay for this, because money raised for the school has to go on more basic things like heating and insurance.


The DES were to introduce IEPs for children under EPSEN with the resources to support them. No resources,no training, but teachers have taken on the IEP process for the good of the children.Likewise with exceptionally able children, DES produced guidelines but no actual help in the form of learning support/resource hours. They have slashed provision for children with special needs and expect parents and schools to pick up the slack.

YES, my holidays are a good perk, but I work hard and I hope I do my best for my children.Like most people, I thought I knew what I was signing up to when I took on teaching.The world and the educational sphere have changed drastically since I began teaching and I do my best to upskill on my own time to keep up.I LOVE my job-and not for July and August, if you were only in this job for the holidays,you would never last. I live for the child who makes a breakthrough,however small,for the child who suddenly grasps something they had struggled with,for the child who grows in confidence and self-worth.

I am fed up of people who have no idea of the reality of teaching today telling me how easy I have it. I don't knock your job, please respect mine.

wow you teachers, your amazing!!!!

byhookorbycrook

2manyconditions wrote: »

wow you teachers, your amazing!!!!

No, not amazing, but not taking the p*ss either.

Terri26

Stark wrote: »

You only have to work 10 years as a teacher before you're on 55k. You're failing to take into account qualification allowances on top of the basic salary.

Wow that's great thanks for letting me kno!. I only have four years to wait and I am going to jump nearly 20k. I better let BOI know as they quoted me a mortgage of 198k!! I am delighted in four years I will be able to afford a basic house in Dublin. I hope the dept of education know they have to up my wages so much.

Stark

mat cauthon wrote: »

Todays tots will pay tomorrows pensions. They will be tomorrows road builders, engineers cardiothoracic surgeons and nuclear physicts. They will nurse us, care for us, and maintain our environment.

Also tomorrow's criminals and life long welfare recipients.

mat cauthon wrote: »

If you wish to opt out of all future support from society because you dont have children, then I wish you luck. But you wont do it.
You will benefit from other peoples children.
So pay for them.

We already do through child benefit and a myriad of other welfare allowances.

Terri26 wrote: »

Wow that's great thanks for letting me kno!. I only have four years to wait and I am going to jump nearly 20k. I better let BOI know as they quoted me a mortgage of 198k!! I am delighted in four years I will be able to afford a basic house in Dublin. I hope the dept of education know they have to up my wages so much.

Check your union's website. Not my fault if you were too dim to claim your academic qualification allowance.

Terri26

You know what union I am with? Fair play. Also BOI don't care what my union says or doesn't say. They care what my pay slip says. If you are going to make judgements on what the pay scale says we don't reach 55k until point 21!! Good luck getting there in 10 years.

Stark

€55k is the basic salary at point 21. There's a qualification allowance of at least €5k on top of that assuming your sole degree isn't a crappy pass level BA.

danbohan

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

This past school year, I attended 11 inservice evenings on my own time,I spent half of my Easter holidays training for a pilot project our school ran, I am doing a summer course on special needs,paid for out of my own pocket(€100.) This is before I ever tackle my paperwork.
I buy prizes for children out of my own money,to celebrate their work.I don't expect the school to pay for this, because money raised for the school has to go on more basic things like heating and insurance.


The DES were to introduce IEPs for children under EPSEN with the resources to support them. No resources,no training, but teachers have taken on the IEP process for the good of the children.Likewise with exceptionally able children, DES produced guidelines but no actual help in the form of learning support/resource hours. They have slashed provision for children with special needs and expect parents and schools to pick up the slack.

YES, my holidays are a good perk, but I work hard and I hope I do my best for my children.Like most people, I thought I knew what I was signing up to when I took on teaching.The world and the educational sphere have changed drastically since I began teaching and I do my best to upskill on my own time to keep up.I LOVE my job-and not for July and August, if you were only in this job for the holidays,you would never last. I live for the child who makes a breakthrough,however small,for the child who suddenly grasps something they had struggled with,for the child who grows in confidence and self-worth.

I am fed up of people who have no idea of the reality of teaching today telling me how easy I have it. I don't knock your job, please respect mine.

thank you very much for posting on the boards mother teresa .and me thinking you were dead !

byhookorbycrook

danbohan wrote: »

thank you very much for posting on the boards mother teresa .and me thinking you were dead !

And there we leave it, Kevin Myers.
(And by the way, names take capital letters.)

owenc

No, i don't think they are, they need a rest from the stress that they get from teenage bitches.

mat cauthon

Stark wrote: »

€55k is the basic salary at point 21. There's a qualification allowance of at least €5k on top of that assuming your sole degree isn't a crappy pass level BA.

Wow Stark, I can see why you resent teachers! You either didnt listen, or had truly rubbish teachers.

55k is the point 21. The teaching scale is point 25. There is one increment a year.
So, if you think that you can reach point 21 (21 years) after ten years, you clearly missed basic time class, which would have taught you ( had you listened) that there are in fact 12 months in a year, and not six.

And dont disrespect others degrees. A "crappy pass level BA" can be the maximum of some peoples potential, and they may have worked very hard to get it.
I dont know what youve got. I'm not telling you what I've got.But I would never look down on anothers achievement - I dont need to do so to make me feel better about my own. Do you?

Stark

mat cauthon wrote: »

Wow Stark, I can see why you resent teachers! You either didnt listen, or had truly rubbish teachers.

55k is the point 21. The teaching scale is point 25. There is one increment a year.
So, if you think that you can reach point 21 (21 years) after ten years, you clearly missed basic time class, which would have taught you ( had you listened) that there are in fact 12 months in a year, and not six.

And you clearly didn't listen to the bit about the qualification allowance.

Also, being a teacher yourself, you would know that most teachers start off at point 3 so they reach point 21 after 18 years. At which point, they get 55k + ALLOWANCES. For most teachers who would have honours bachelors, Hdips or Masters degrees, they'll achieve a 55k total salary long before they reach point 21 thanks to qualification allowances.

Are you trying to tell me than neither yourself nor Terri26 get any qualification allowance?

PS: I don't resent teachers but I do resent people who come out with BS like increments not being salary increases or allowances not being salary and the likes. If it's money in your pocket, then it's salary.

mat_cauthon wrote: »

And dont disrespect others degrees. A "crappy pass level BA" can be the maximum of some peoples potential, and they may have worked very hard to get it.
I dont know what youve got. I'm not telling you what I've got.But I would never look down on anothers achievement - I dont need to do so to make me feel better about my own. Do you?

For some people, working behind a checkout till is the maximum of their potential. Since we don't live in a communist society, those people tend to get paid less than those with greater potential.

Doc

Even if it is only 10 years why would anyone resent someone with a masters degree and 10 years experience in their field earning 55k a year?

Stark

Well the question was why did they feel they deserved a lot more along with the pension and the 13 weeks holidays.

Edit: I should point out that it wasn't me that asked the question, I'm fine with someone with 10 years earning 55k personally, I just wanted to point out the misrepresentation in claiming it takes 21 years to earn that much.

Doc

Stark wrote: »

Well the question was why did they feel they deserved a lot more along with the pension and the 13 weeks holidays.

10 years experience and a masters degree could get you a pretty high paying job in the privet sector. The holidays are a benefit that teachers get its a hard job with no alterative employers in Ireland that you can switch to in order to get a pay increases.

mat cauthon

Stark wrote: »

And you clearly didn't listen to the bit about the qualification allowance.

Also, being a teacher yourself, you would know that most teachers start off at point 3 so they reach point 21 after 18 years. At which point, they get 55k + ALLOWANCES. For most teachers who would have honours bachelors, Hdips or Masters degrees, they'll achieve a 55k total salary long before they reach point 21 thanks to qualification allowances.

Are you trying to tell me than neither yourself nor Terri26 get any qualification allowance?

PS: I don't resent teachers but I do resent people who come out with BS like increments not being salary increases or allowances not being salary and the likes. If it's money in your pocket, then it's salary.



For some people, working behind a checkout till is the maximum of their potential. Since we don't live in a communist society, those people tend to get paid less than those with greater potential.

And is that not how it should be? Should we genuinely crib because a Barrister in Dublin gets more money than a bin man in Donegal?
Silly argument.
55 grand isnt all that much for the level of training and education that teachers put in - and as said, 18 years (not six as you said) would count for a hell of a lot more in a professional third level qualified position in private sector.

If you think its so great - go do the post grad. Or get a degree first and do it.
Stop whining.

Stark

mat cauthon wrote: »

And is that not how it should be? Should we genuinely crib because a Barrister in Dublin gets more money than a bin man in Donegal?
Silly argument.
55 grand isnt all that much for the level of training and education that teachers put in - and as said, 18 years (not six as you said) would count for a hell of a lot more in a professional third level qualified position in private sector.

If you think its so great - go do the post grad. Or get a degree first and do it.
Stop whining.

What on earth are you on about? You don't seem to have read my posts at all.

Doc

Stark wrote: »

What on earth are you on about? You don't seem to have read my posts at all.

I did.