Are teachers taking the p!ss?

Mal-Adjusted

poodles wrote: »

I already mentioned a couple of times that my dad was a teacher (38 years I think) He often got a free periods to run errands for the house.

judging by that, your dad was a bad teacher. Shameful behavior

poodles wrote: »

Two of my brothers are teachers - although they are not full time - one of their wives is a full time teacher.
My flat mate's mother is a teacher as is my friends girlfriend (currently getting paid to swan around south east asia for 2 months)

so what? knowing teachers doesn't mean a thing. i know several too.

Oafley Jones

Ollchailin wrote: »

People comment on teachers because everyone has experience of being in front of one for a significant amount of time. People talk about teachers because most people know a teacher- either a friend or a relative.

But mostly people talk about teachers because there's a part of them- sometimes only a tiny part, sometimes a big part- that thinks they could give it a go themselves.

And sometimes what they have to say is fair enough, and sometimes what they have to say, is as you say- envy. Depends on the person, depends on the argument.

It'll always be this way, I'm sure of it.

I'd agree with that, but I think it's significant that the OP has so many people that are close to him that are teachers.

poodles

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

judging by that, your dad was a bad teacher. Shameful behavior


so what? knowing teachers doesn't mean a thing. i know several too.

SO WHAT?

You just copied what I said and took it out of context.

Why don't you go back and put the words back where u found them, good lad.

lily09

that is your definition of taking the piss.Hope you don't fall off that very high horse there! Seriously get over it we do extra training we get time off in lieu, so do plenty other jobs.

johnpawl

I think Poodles needs people's support to tackle his issues

starbelgrade

poodles wrote: »

SO WHAT?

You just copied what I said and took it out of context.

Why don't you go back and put the words back where u found them, good lad.

Why don't you just become a teacher? You'd have a lot more free time & a lot less to complain about, by the sounds of it.

Ollchailin

poodles wrote: »

My flat mate's mother is a teacher as is my friends girlfriend (currently getting paid to swan around south east asia for 2 months)

Aaaaaaaagh THIS pees me off no end. Teachers' wages are spread out over 12 months. Meaning that yes, teachers receive wages when they are not working. But that does not mean that they are paid to be on holidays.

I don't know why I even replied to this particular post. Anyone who thinks rationally about this point knows that teachers are not paid to be on holidays.

Donkey Oaty

Most of the pro-teacher comments on this thread read like they've been written by PE teachers.

Oafley Jones

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Most of the pro-teacher comments on this thread read like they've been written by PE teachers.

Nah, not enough swearing.

peasey

So, OP what you are really saying is that you are judging a profession on the fact your friend the teacher is an idiot, choose your friends better then.

I know many teachers who run summer camps (this was previously suggested). I also know teachers who do 2 or 3 courses over the summer not because they're easy but because they are interested in the topic of the course.

As per a suggestion made on this topic that teachers should work the summer to make things easier for parents. Someone elses children are not the responsibility of teachers, the education system is not a creche or babysitting service, get a childminder thats what they are trained for.

A teacher is not trained to babysit they are trained to educate.

I also know teachers who by the end of the school year are out a couple of hundred euro through buying equipment and supplies for the classroom so the children dont miss aspects of their curriculum.

astra2000

ok teachers can ye justfy why ye above any other ocupation deserve such long holidays do ye really believe that ye have a more stressful occupation than nurses, doctors.carers, social workers, Gardai,councillors, mediators to name but a few? It would not be possible for an economy to survive if everybody in stressful jobs were given such holidays so why do ye think ye deserve to be the exception I a not jealous but I am sick of hearing teachers talking about the problems with teaching (which I acknowledge) but never praise the perks of long holdays shorter days. Is there really none of you that realise that it is a ridiculous amount of time off?

ollchailin you say that teachers wages are spread over 12mth and are not paid for time off that is because they are paid an exhorbinate amount per hour!

johnpawl

Poodles, if you do two years in UL with your degree in civil engineering you can become qualified to teach DCG (formerly technical drawing).With that completed you'll probably be on half hours for five or six years and then you'll be into your dream job of teaching secondary school and your life will be fulfilled...

lily09

astra2000 wrote: »

ok teachers can ye justfy why ye above any other ocupation deserve such long holidays do ye really believe that ye have a more stressful occupation than nurses, doctors.carers, social workers, Gardai,councillors, mediators to name but a few? It would not be possible for an economy to survive if everybody in stressful jobs were given such holidays so why do ye think ye deserve to be the exception I a not jealous but I am sick of hearing teachers talking about the problems with teaching (which I acknowledge) but never praise the perks of long holdays shorter days. Is there really none of you that realise that it is a ridiculous amount of time off?

Because we are not the only people in that room there are up to 37 very tired little minds and bodies who have spent long enough in the classroom and need to run play and be kids for a while. Trust me go into an infant classroom in June and the feeling is holding back wild animals.

Oafley Jones

astra2000 wrote: »

ok teachers can ye justfy why ye above any other ocupation deserve such long holidays do ye really believe that ye have a more stressful occupation than nurses, doctors.carers, social workers, Gardai,councillors, mediators to name but a few? It would not be possible for an economy to survive if everybody in stressful jobs were given such holidays so why do ye think ye deserve to be the exception I a not jealous but I am sick of hearing teachers talking about the problems with teaching (which I acknowledge) but never praise the perks of long holdays shorter days. Is there really none of you that realise that it is a ridiculous amount of time off?

ollchailin you say that teachers wages are spread over 12mth and are not paid for time off that is because they are paid an exhorbinate amount per hour!

Not a teacher. Just pointing out that teachers holidays are nothing to do with the stress levels of the job.

Catari Jaguar

astra2000 wrote: »

ok teachers can ye justfy why ye above any other ocupation deserve such long holidays

LOL. Idiotic comment. They're the children's holidays. Can't exect them to be in school during the summer.

Anyways the pay in teaching is sh1t. I've been cut so much that I'm working to rule. I used to stay late doing extra planning and researching topics, even stupid stuff like photocopying or laminating, looking for fun websites, or buying cute or cool things the kids would like in the €2 shop. Well **** it.

Over on educationposts message boards there are a ton of threads asking school related questions about planning etc. during their holidays!

So ye can swivel on it.

Mal-Adjusted

poodles wrote: »

SO WHAT?

You just copied what I said and took it out of context.

Why don't you go back and put the words back where u found them, good lad.

lol, who's taking things out of context now?
i said i know several teachers too. this doesn't somehow qualify me to be an expert on how they operate, as you seem to think id does.

If you think i copied what you said, then it seems the education system wasn't very good to you :rolleyes:

Donkey Oaty

cherub rock wrote: »

Anyways the pay in teaching is sh1t. I've been cut so much that I'm working to rule. I used to stay late doing extra planning and researching topics, even stupid stuff like photocopying or laminating, looking for fun websites, or buying cute or cool things the kids would like in the €2 shop. Well **** it.

Sounds like a change of career might be in order, Cherub.

Ollchailin

cherub rock wrote: »

LOL. Idiotic comment. They're the children's holidays. Can't exect them to be in school during the summer.

Anyways the pay in teaching is sh1t. I've been cut so much that I'm working to rule. I used to stay late doing extra planning and researching topics, even stupid stuff like photocopying or laminating, looking for fun websites, or buying cute or cool things the kids would like in the €2 shop. Well **** it.

Over on educationposts message boards there are a ton of threads asking school related questions about planning etc. during their holidays!

So ye can swivel on it.

Yeah I buy most of my teaching materials out of my own pocket & will be doing up notes for next term from next week on.

But that stuff doesn't dawn on the people who don't like our holiday time because it's a positive thing about teachers and that's not allowed in their club...

Catari Jaguar

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Sounds like a change of career might be in order, Cherub.

No I'm just doing the work I get paid for within the hours I get paid for. Anything extra is a bonus. Like any other job. I don't get enough pay, respect or gratitude to go above and beyond what's expected of me.

Amazing that teachers get jumped on for this but in any other job it's normal.

Come September the DES has teachers by the balls because of the retards voting Yes. Who knows what we'll have to do then. Sucks, because I'm a great teacher (like my counterparts) but they're just shooting themselves in the foot with these new measures. Disgruntled, overworked teachers doesn't make for productivity or a happy environment.

@Poodles: Did you air your complaints & bitching to the girls on facebook yes or no?

They're the ones you have the problem with after all.

Oafley Jones

cherub rock wrote: »

No I'm just doing the work I get paid for within the hours I get paid for. Anything extra is a bonus. Like any other job. I don't get enough pay, respect or gratitude to go above and beyond what's expected of me.

Amazing that teachers get jumped on for this but in any other job it's normal.

Come September the DES has teachers by the balls because of the retards voting Yes. Who knows what we'll have to do then. Sucks, because I'm a great teacher (like my counterparts) but they're just shooting themselves in the foot with these new measures. Disgruntled, overworked teachers doesn't make for productivity or a happy environment.

@Poodles: Did you air your complaints & bitching to the girls on facebook yes or no?

They're the ones you have the problem with after all.

Nice attitude.

astra2000

Totally agree there donkey oaty!!!
Cherub rock You work to rule well that is not suprising!!!are you so blinded by yourself rightousness that you can not see that you can do work while the kids are off? planning research the courses the op referred to? In the case of secondary schoolscorrecting and supervising exams open your eyes and see past yourself. English schools at both secondary and primary leves get 6 weeks off during summer what makes you so much more deserving certainly not your work to rule rule!!!!!! How can you claim to be over worked when you have a minimum of14 weeks off per year and work a6ish hour day get real realise that while you may have a sometimes stressful job there are many many perks with it! Thank God for the teachers in our local school they actually say they like their job

wireless101

chatjunkie wrote: »

Dear OP, I am a primary school teacher...blah blah blah....meant a lot to my family and I.....

FAIL.

Catari Jaguar

astra2000 wrote: »

Totally agree there donkey oaty!!!
Cherub rock You work to rule well that is not suprising!!!are you so blinded by yourself rightousness that you can not see that you can do work while the kids are off? planning research the courses the op referred to? In the case of secondary schoolscorrecting and supervising exams open your eyes and see past yourself. English schools at both secondary and primary leves get 6 weeks off during summer what makes you so much more deserving certainly not your work to rule rule!!!!!!

Before you go shooting your mouth off, you know nothing about me. How do you know that I'm not a temporary teacher that was on maternity leave and amn't getting summer pay therefore need a job in the summer.

Anyways I've done my summer course already.

My classes are not hard done by or missing out in anyway (which is saying something considering the cuts and bad decisions the DES are making left right & centre)

astra2000

Because you would have already mentioned it thats something else you would have moaned about. If you cant take some critism then dont give it out!!! Unfortunatly for you we are adults here and can answer you back!!

waxon-waxoff

Time after time these stories about the various perks, allowances, holidays etc available to public servants come to the publics attention.

Here its the "course days" to add to the already generous holidays for teachers. Then its the extra long lunch break for Revenue staff to lodge their pay cheque on pay day, even though its been paid into their accounts for many years. Or maybe its the Gardai who work behind a desk all the time and get a "plain clothes allowance" of 6 or 7 hundred a year as compensation for not having a uniform.

But what i find amazing is that most of this stuff dates back from long before the boom years and was part of normal pay and conditions during the poverty stricken 1980's. The unions were pulling the strings even back then, and the Government was still spineless.

Catari Jaguar

astra2000 wrote: »

Because you would have already mentioned it thats something else you would have moaned about. If you cant take some critism then dont give it out!!!

I don't mind the criticisim because it's all misinformed and makes people sound stupid. It's mainly jealousy. So I just make some humorous remarks.

But me being told that I'm not working hard enough is something that does annoy me. If I give 100% and the DES cuts my pay 33%, well it's fair that I'm just gonna give 67% effort in return. I think that would be mean to the children though. So I'll give my 100% but it will strictly be between 8:50 - 2:30, Mon - Fri only. So in effect roughly 67% of what I used to do but not depriving the children in anyway.

And I wouldn't do any other job, I like teaching. I don't care about the holidays. I don't even like 2 months off in the summer because I get bored and lazy and lose focus and motivation.

But no, I'm not working in the summer, The DES can **** right off. That's what they want. No way.

astra2000

I beg your pardon forgot who I was talking to sure your a teacher and the teacher is always right and knows EVERYTHING!!!!!!!! begging your pardon you know it all and all your opinions are correct, and we are all jealous idiots. ever thought of a career move to politics they get even longer holidays in the dail

Ollchailin

astra2000 wrote: »

I beg your pardon forgot who I was talking to sure your a teacher and the teacher is always right and knows EVERYTHING!!!!!!!! begging your pardon you know it all and all your opinions are correct, and we are all jealous idiots. ever thought of a career move to politics they get even longer holidays in the dail

Good Lord.

Tarring and brushes all over the place.

Catari Jaguar

astra2000 wrote: »

I beg your pardon forgot who I was talking to sure your a teacher and the teacher is always right and knows EVERYTHING!!!!!!!! begging your pardon you know it all and all your opinions are correct, and we are all jealous idiots. ever thought of a career move to politics they get even longer holidays in the dail

Wow. You seem to have a gigantic chip on your shoulder.

But yes, I would like to think that I am a little more knowledgable about the teaching profession than you, as I do, you know, work in it! You after all, think that teachers need to justify "their" long holidays (due to stress?!!!).

You also think we earn an exhoribitantly high amount per hour. Care to share that amount? And considering how you think we shouldn't work to rule, you must realise that that hourly wage would be pretty small due to all the all the work teachers are expected do outside the classroom.

You can't say we have short days in one sentence and then chastise me for finishing up at the end of the school day (which is my right). You can't have it both ways.

All I know, I sure as heck amn't coming out with much in my payslip. My deductions looks like a shopping list.

You've your mind firmly made up, and seem unswayable. I bet you were a joy to impart knowledge to in school.

@ Oafley, as for criticising my "nice attitude" towards the Yes voters, have you any idea what that Yes vote was for and the implications it will have?
That considering, even though I voted No, I have to go along with. So forgive me, if I'm a little pissed off about it.

Anyways, sick of this. Don't need to explain myself or jusitfy my job to random people on the internet. Be sour all you want. I'll enjoy my perks. Night.

Feeded

Ollchailin wrote: »

Good Lord.

Tarring and brushes all over the place.

i'm with you ollchailin and cherub rock......

people who rant about teachers need to drop in to a school for a few hours and shadow a few classes - that's if the chips on their shoulders could negotiate the door-frame.......

i could list off the negatives there are in the job but it's a smashing job....a job where you have energetic colleagues and challenging students; excellent students can be a challenge as much as the more difficult ones.
I'm not going to list off the negatives because that's what we all do in the staffroom when we sit down for a coffee.....we have a rant....we check in on each other and we generally do a damn good days work.....i use the word day loosely..................

....i wouldn't dream to slag off any other profession without experiencing a full six months in that environment. just because you go to school as a student it doesn't give you the right to assume you have any clue about the speed with which our education system moves today. it moves faster than any non-teacher on THIS thread.

Feeded

astra2000 wrote: »

I beg your pardon forgot who I was talking to sure your a teacher and the teacher is always right and knows EVERYTHING!!!!!!!! begging your pardon you know it all and all your opinions are correct, and we are all jealous idiots. ever thought of a career move to politics they get even longer holidays in the dail

...if you could change two things about the current work practices of teachers, what would you change?

Donkey Oaty

Feeded wrote: »

...if you could change two things about the current work practices of teachers, what would you change?

You can take the teacher out of the classroom, but you can't take the classroom out of the teacher, it seems.

There's been a lot of patronising drivel from some of the teachers on this thread and my message to them is this: it's your own time you're wasting!

raah!

Yeaa, you tell 'em, donkey oaty!

Catari Jaguar

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

There's been a lot of patronising drivel from some of the teachers on this thread and my message to them is this: it's your own time you're wasting!

It's not like we have to go to work tomorrow

Side Show Bob

cherub rock wrote: »

I don't mind the criticisim because it's all misinformed and makes people sounds stupid. It's all jealousy. So I just make some humorous remarks.

English Teacher?

Il Trap

Another teacher bashing thread...
I think its quite fair to say that if it were not for the long holidays, many fewer people would consider teaching as a profession. It is an extremely stressful job alot of the time. You must exercise a hell of alot of self control and restraint when dealing with 30 very different individuals from different backgrounds, many of whom would rather be anywhere else and make it their daily priority to disrupt learning 'for the craic'. Add to this mixture (some) pig-ignorant parents who dont have a clue how to handle their own kids and the bullsh!t staffroom politics that go on in the background and you have an extremely stressful working environment. Saying that, there is no denying the obvious perks such as course days or various 'posts' within the school. I know of one example of a teacher who was receiving around €5000 on top of basic salary for being the 'first aid coordinator'. This involved ensuing that first aid kits in the school were topped up at the beginning of term. This was only one of a handful of
sh!tty posts that yielded a salary add on. However there are a number of important other posts for similar money and you usually find that the more diligent teachers take these while the pretenders do the 'booklists' etc.
I come from a large family of teachers and I agree with earlier posters who commented on the stress that it causes. I'm a teacher myself but have decided to pursue a different career path as although I have enjoyed the four years I spent in various schools, there is too much baggage, political bullsh!t and lack of opportunities for career development for me to spend the next thirty-five years in it. I love teaching but find the Irish secondary ed. system wholly unrewarding for both teachers and many students. Hard-working teachers efforts go unappreciated and, most frustrating of all, they are grouped in with the lazy and inept cute-hooers and morons (of which there are many) that manage to weasel their way into a role of such vital importance to society with a sh!tty BA and the help of a recruitment system that has the hands of school management resticted alot of the time.

Feeded

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

You can take the teacher out of the classroom, but you can't take the classroom out of the teacher, it seems.

There's been a lot of patronising drivel from some of the teachers on this thread and my message to them is this: it's your own time you're wasting!

.......and we've loads of time!

Ollchailin

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

You can take the teacher out of the classroom, but you can't take the classroom out of the teacher, it seems.

There's been a lot of patronising drivel from some of the teachers on this thread and my message to them is this: it's your own time you're wasting!

I'm not sure which of us you're referring to, but speaking for myself, my intention was not to be patronising in my responses. However, it is extremely maddening to hear the same old claptrap from people (and I include some of the things said by teachers when I say that) when ultimately, you have to ask yourself, as someone who obviously does have a problem with teachers: is it the teachers' pay and conditions that occupy my mind the most, or is it the standard of teaching & conditions in the classrooms of this country that I go on an internet site to discuss/raise concerns about?

I think you'll find that most people tend to dwell on the former rather than the latter- which really makes me think that their priorities are rather askew. I know that both issues can be intertwined, but it's interesting that most people, when on this type of "rant", never get to the second one...

Anyway, that's all I have to say on the issue. I've come to realise that there are some people, no matter what, who just don't like teachers. It's a shame really, but that's just how it is.

Feeded

cherub rock wrote: »

It's not like we have to go to work tomorrow

:):):)

Doc

Just had a look and the max pay for a normal primary school teacher and I believe it is €59,359 for a teacher with 25 years service and experience.

If I had 25 years of experience in my field I would want to be paid a hell of a lot more then this. Also no mater how hard you work or well you teach this is the maximum you can earn without taking on other duties besides teaching.

Bare in mind all these people have to be well educated in order to teach in the first place and could have found other jobs and that the vast majority were doing the job during the boom time of the Irish economy where other professions where and still are earning far more. I know I owe a lot to the Irish education system and that I tried my best to torture my teachers at times. They do a hard job that most don’t want to do and the holidays reflect this.

Everyone knows that the holidays are one of the only real benefits of becoming a teacher. Anyone who has had to look after young kids know that dealing with one or two can be an extremely stressful thing so God knows how much more stressful dealing with nearly 30 could be.

So to the people, who want to shorten the holidays, lower the pay and take away the pension I would like to know why then anyone would see teaching as a viable carrier?

Strata

appleb wrote: »

Can I suggest that those who think teaching is such a cushy number go and train to be a teacher? Fed up hearing complaints. If I want to get the benefits of being a surgeon/ Barrister/ etc then I would go and train to do so. No point in me sitting complaining!

You do realise that not everybody can be a teacher? Or civil servant for that matter.

Strata

parker kent wrote: »

+1 Teachers have one of the most important jobs in any country. Other people can be crap at their job and it makes no real difference to anybody. However, a good or a bad teacher can change somebody's life. Something that important needs to be shown respect.

I don't really mind teachers getting a few perks if it gets the best people involved in teaching. Pay peanuts and you get monkeys. I'm not saying we have it perfect here (the education system could be improved) but I don't blame teachers who have to put up 30 disinterested kids every day. That is a job I know I would not want or be able to do. Fair play to them.

How does the current system get "the best people involved in teaching"?

pickarooney

Jesus, just how many funerals do you people go to? Are people really trying to suggest that they should be given days off to attend funerals of non-family members?

Oafley Jones

Strata wrote: »

You do realise that not everybody can be a teacher? Or civil servant for that matter.

What's stopping them? Of course i'm taking it as read that you agree with the exclusion of sex offenders and those with criminal conviction.

Strata

cherub rock wrote: »

I don't mind the criticisim because it's all misinformed and makes people sound stupid. It's mainly jealousy. So I just make some humorous remarks.

But me being told that I'm not working hard enough is something that does annoy me. If I give 100% and the DES cuts my pay 33%, well it's fair that I'm just gonna give 67% effort in return. I think that would be mean to the children though. So I'll give my 100% but it will strictly be between 8:50 - 2:30, Mon - Fri only. So in effect roughly 67% of what I used to do but not depriving the children in anyway.

Who says you are not working hard enough? The pay cuts are across the board within the civil service and are because the government (your employer) can't afford to pay such wages anymore. Of course the students will suffer if you are not doing extra-curricular activities that you did before the pay cuts.

And I wouldn't do any other job, I like teaching. I don't care about the holidays. I don't even like 2 months off in the summer because I get bored and lazy and lose focus and motivation.

You don't care about the holidays? Give me a break. At least admit that the benefits of being a teacher are well above average.


But no, I'm not working in the summer, The DES can **** right off. That's what they want. No way.

But I thought you got "bored and lazy" with so much time off

Strata

Oafley Jones wrote: »

What's stopping them? Of course i'm taking it as read that you agree with the exclusion of sex offenders and those with criminal conviction.

Not every employable person in the state can be a civil servant. Some people have to (and want to) work in private enterprise.

Similarly not everyone can be a teacher because they may not be suited to being a teacher personality wise. It doesn't mean that there job is less stressful than a teacher.

Dravokivich

pablo_escobar wrote: »

Their sincerity in teaching lacks credibility and it's really benefits and salary of the job which are of higher priority to them.

Is dependant on the students sincerity in learning...

The schools I went to... a lot the other students were complete cúnts. They'd driven a student teacher to a nervous breakdown.

But because they weren't able to do well in their exams for Juniour / Leaving Cert, it's the fault of an insincere teacher?

Oafley Jones

Strata wrote: »

Not every employable person in the state can be a civil servant. Some people have to (and want to) work in private enterprise.

Similarly not everyone can be a teacher because they may not be suited to being a teacher personality wise. It doesn't mean that there job is less stressful than a teacher.

Wait, your point is that people can't become teachers because a)they don't want to b)they haven't the ability.

Strata

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Wait, your point is that people can't become teachers because a)they don't want to b)they haven't the ability.

And C) there isn't the enough teaching jobs within the state for every employable person in the state to be a teacher.

parker kent

Strata wrote: »

How does the current system get "the best people involved in teaching"?

Well obviously I am talking about the perks that everybody here is moaning about teachers getting like good holidays, decent money etc. A good student in college might decide to choose teaching due to them and do a hDip. Like in many areas, newly qualified teachers are finding it very difficult to get jobs. But anything that makes it an attractive area will help get people into the profession will help get the best people into the area.

Lately it is less of an issue, but previously the best students would have faced a choice between a potentially better paying private job and teaching. The profession must have enough attractions to get the better students involved, even nowadays.