Are teachers taking the p!ss?

mackeminexile

poodles wrote: »

Well a secondary school teacher won't work straight 9 to 4:30 every day.
They have 'free peroids'.

By your logic - teachers shouldn't get paid for the hours that they have 'free' during the day. Incidently, this is usually when they do their 'overtime' correction stuff.

And from what I remember of my secondary school days teachers had very little of this correcting stuff...maybe at summer time and christmas time exams...boo hoo.

Hold on a sec, what you remember from school as a pupil and what actually happen are two different things! I'm not a teacher but both my parents were teachers in the Uk and they worked every hour god sent, including night times planning lessons etc. Often they would work till 10pm after having dinner at least 4 nights per week. They also would work at least one week of the summer break.

Granted there is a difference between the Irish and British systems but people really need to leave teachers alone. They play a vital role in the future development of the greatest resource any country has and get very little thanks for it. Also the pay, to be fair for the hours and responsibility is nowhere near as good as a similar role in the private sector.

ejmaztec

astra2000 wrote: »

I beg your pardon forgot who I was talking to sure your a teacher and the teacher is always right and knows EVERYTHING!!!!!!!! begging your pardon you know it all and all your opinions are correct, and we are all jealous idiots. ever thought of a career move to politics they get even longer holidays in the dail

Perhaps that's why there are so many teachers in politics, to get even longer holidays than they had before.

Strata

parker kent wrote: »

Well obviously I am talking about the perks that everybody here is moaning about teachers getting like good holidays, decent money etc. A good student in college might decide to choose teaching due to them and do a hDip. Like in many areas, newly qualified teachers are finding it very difficult to get jobs. But anything that makes it an attractive area will help get people into the profession will help get the best people into the area.

Lately it is less of an issue, but previously the best students would have faced a choice between a potentially better paying private job and teaching. The profession must have enough attractions to get the better students involved, even nowadays.

A well paying job with excellent holidays and working hours will attract both good and bad teachers. Just because someone was a good student in school/college does not necessarily mean they'll be a good teacher (and that goes for every job).

The mentality of "offer enough money for a job and you automatically get the right people" is, imo one of the reasons why the banks are in such a state and the financial regulator did such a rubbish job. But I'm going OT here.

Bonito

starbelgrade wrote: »

Do you not have something better to do, like homework?

poodles wrote: »

Do you go around looking for thanks with your sh!t jokes on these boards all day?

starbelgrade wrote: »

Not all day. Just evenings mostly.

Fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight.

McNulty737 wrote: »

THEY GET FIVE MONTHS PAID LEAVE EVERY YEAR.

People on the dole get infinite paid leave. :pac:
What if we get people on the dole to do the teachers corrections and stuff, wait for it, for free? eh? eh? eh? Good idea, no?

Strata

mackeminexile wrote: »

Hold on a sec, what you remember from school as a pupil and what actually happen are two different things! I'm not a teacher but both my parents were teachers in the Uk and they worked every hour god sent, including night times planning lessons etc. Often they would work till 10pm after having dinner at least 4 nights per week. They also would work at least one week of the summer break.

Granted there is a difference between the Irish and British systems but people really need to leave teachers alone. They play a vital role in the future development of the greatest resource any country has and get very little thanks for it. Also the pay, to be fair for the hours and responsibility is nowhere near as good as a similar role in the private sector.

A lot of people work long hours and don't (a) don't get paid overtime and (b) get NO thanks for it.

And correct me if I'm wrong but teachers are very well paid relative to their European counterparts and especially when you consider the hours they work and their holidays.

Also, benchmarking ensured that their pay did rise in line with pay increases in the private sector.

pickarooney

Strata wrote: »

And correct me if I'm wrong but teachers are very well paid relative to their European counterparts and especially when you consider the hours they work and their holidays.

This is a moot point. Everyone in Ireland is well paid compared to their European counterparts, mostly because everything costs so damn much there.

astra2000

Yes I agree that teachers playa vital role in this country this is something that cant be denied. My point is though that lots of professions play an equally vital role and dont get anything close to this this time off, I have asked this question and not received any answers to it. Surely it is not too much to expect that they should have a few less weeks off during the summer months and that during this time they should take what ever courses are necessary to help them improve their teaching skills, hold some of the school year planning days and in the case of secondary teachers correcting and supervision of state exams honestly there is no justifying between 9 and 13 weeks off for summer alone.How ever I do not agree with the idea of teacher ran summer camps children teachers are there to teach not provide childcare. One of the teachers posting on here mentioned been bored and lazy and loses motivation during the summer surely this is not good for the soul? Would that pont alone not make you desire less holidays or are so caught up in getting one over on the dept of education that you have lost sight of this. again if anyone has a valid reason why teachers should continue to have so much longer hols than other hard working people I would love to hear them and as I already mentioned the fact that the kids are off does not mean there is no work thay can be carried out.

parker kent

Strata wrote: »

A well paying job with excellent holidays and working hours will attract both good and bad teachers. Just because someone was a good student in school/college does not necessarily mean they'll be a good teacher (and that goes for every job).

The mentality of "offer enough money for a job and you automatically get the right people" is, imo one of the reasons why the banks are in such a state and the financial regulator did such a rubbish job. But I'm going OT here.

Well that is all pretty obvious. It is hardly news to me that academically strong students often do not make good teachers. However, better pay and good holidays is hardly going to make it unattractive for the potentially good teachers. No matter what vocation to teach a person may have, another reason to join may be needed by some people. More people wishing to join increases the overall talent pool.

The issue of bad teachers is a different topic altogether. And I am hardly saying to throw money at education and you will get the right people. I am just saying that an attractive package can help talented people join the profession.

parker kent

astra2000 wrote: »

Yes I agree that teachers playa vital role in this country this is something that cant be denied. My point is though that lots of professions play an equally vital role and dont get anything close to this this time off, I have asked this question and not received any answers to it. Surely it is not too much to expect that they should have a few less weeks off during the summer months and that during this time they should take what ever courses are necessary to help them improve their teaching skills, hold some of the school year planning days and in the case of secondary teachers correcting and supervision of state exams honestly there is no justifying between 9 and 13 weeks off for summer alone.How ever I do not agree with the idea of teacher ran summer camps children teachers are there to teach not provide childcare. One of the teachers posting on here mentioned been bored and lazy and loses motivation during the summer surely this is not good for the soul? Would that pont alone not make you desire less holidays or are so caught up in getting one over on the dept of education that you have lost sight of this. again if anyone has a valid reason why teachers should continue to have so much longer hols than other hard working people I would love to hear them and as I already mentioned the fact that the kids are off does not mean there is no work thay can be carried out.

You were answered. The long holidays are because they teach children. It is the children's holidays.

cherub rock wrote: »

LOL. Idiotic comment. They're the children's holidays. Can't exect them to be in school during the summer.

The other available option is to copy other countries and have shorter school days and longer school terms to make up the difference in teaching time.

astra2000

Honestly did you read the full post I am asking why teachers WHILE THE CHILDREN ARE OFF can not have a few less weeks holidays and carry out planning days ,supervision ,correcting of exams, necessary courses

Donkey Oaty

parker kent wrote: »

You were answered. The long holidays are because they teach children. It is the children's holidays.

Not quite. That might be a reason for the kids having a holiday, but Astra's point was about why the teachers should have such holidays. The thread was started about teachers being able to take time off in lieu as personal leave during term time for courses done during the summer break.

Edit: beaten to it!

parker kent

astra2000 wrote: »

Honestly did you read the full post I am asking why teachers WHILE THE CHILDREN ARE OFF can not have a few less weeks holidays and carry out planning days ,supervision ,correcting of exams, necessary courses

In fairness, your post was a jumbled mess without spacing so it would be easy to miss that.

Other teachers have also said here that they will be spending the next few weeks on class plans, notes etc. They are also correcting the leaving and junior certs over the summer. Plus they are called teachers, I am sure the amount of what they can do over the summer is limited given they have nobody to teach.

Catari Jaguar

astra2000 wrote: »

Honestly did you read the full post I am asking why teachers WHILE THE CHILDREN ARE OFF can not have a few less weeks holidays and carry out planning days ,supervision ,correcting of exams, necessary courses

All teachers can't correct exams because there aren't enought exams to correct. I teach junior infants so how would I be qualified to correct the Leaving Cert?! We do courses in summer and during school term. Supervision of who? School planning days are done in term time. Teachers own planning is generally done in summer e.g. termly plans (just to take the load off come September)

Anyways the Croke Park agreement will probably bring all this in to effect. It won't make the slightest bit of difference to you. Except maybe you can be smug and go "Take that! Lazy teachers! Now you do even more work for less pay! [/chip]"

If the MANY teachers who haven't got permanent contracts, and don't get paid during summer have to do all this extra free work, how will they earn money?

parker kent

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Not quite. That might be a reason for the kids having a holiday, but Astra's point was about why the teachers should have such holidays. The thread was started about teachers being able to take time off in lieu as personal leave during term time for courses done during the summer break.

Edit: beaten to it!

It may originally started off as that, but the thread seems to be heading towards getting pot-shots at teachers now.

Donkey Oaty

parker kent wrote: »

Other teachers have also said here that they will be spending the next few weeks on class plans, notes etc. They are also correcting the leaving and junior certs over the summer. Plus they are called teachers, I am sure the amount of what they can do over the summer is limited given they have nobody to teach.

Do you think that if they do a course during the summer they should get the time off in lieu during term time?

stovelid

I thought civil servants were the target de jour recently. About time teachers and nurses got some flak instead of the likes of Seán FitzPatrick being unfairly slated on here all the time.

Strata

parker kent wrote: »

In fairness, your post was a jumbled mess without spacing so it would be easy to miss that.

Other teachers have also said here that they will be spending the next few weeks on class plans, notes etc. They are also correcting the leaving and junior certs over the summer. Plus they are called teachers, I am sure the amount of what they can do over the summer is limited given they have nobody to teach.

They get paid extra for that.

Strata

cherub rock wrote: »

All teachers can't correct exams because there aren't enought exams to correct. I teach junior infants so how would I be qualified to correct the Leaving Cert?! We do courses in summer and during school term. Supervision of who? School planning days are done in term time. Teachers own planning is generally done in summer e.g. termly plans (just to take the load off come September)

Anyways the Croke Park agreement will probably bring all this in to effect. It won't make the slightest bit of difference to you. Except maybe you can be smug and go "Take that! Lazy teachers! Now you do even more work for less pay! [/chip]"

If the MANY teachers who haven't got permanent contracts, and don't get paid during summer have to do all this extra free work, how will they earn money?

I personally don't think (all) teachers are lazy money grabbers. But I don't see what is wrong with discussing whether it might be better value for money for the state (and ultimately the taxpayer) if teachers worked longer hours/had less holidays e.g. shorter holidays for students, teachers not being paid extra to correct state exams/supervise state exams, not being paid extra to carry out for example "yard duty".

Catari Jaguar

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Do you think that if they do a course during the summer they should get the time off in lieu during term time?

Blah blah blah old news is old. They're cutting our EPV days too. Basically the state has already cut teachers' wages by 25% (for a newbie to 33% for someone on the higher scale. They wanted to cut again, so there was a vote to FREEZE our pay (which when the cost of living rises will actually be a pay CUT) Doing more work for the same amount of money is effectively a pay cut. Why anyone agreed to this is beyond me! :mad:

This "agreement" means the State can do any measure that regular Joe Soap complains about (appease the voters) and as we've signed basiocally a blank contract we can do nothing but put up & shut up.

So they're gonna want to make us do summer courses, supervise kids in summer, work an extra hour of planning a week, take away the EPV days, only give increments based on results, take away posts of responsibility, make us do after school club/ breakfast club etc for no extra pay, have regular unscheduled departmental inspections... We don't know the scale of it yet, can only speculate. Better to not even think about it.

YES I DO THINK THAT I SHOULD GET DAYS IN LIEU FOR SUMMER COURSES. I pay for the course, so learn more skills at zero cost to the state- the state pays zero for a subsitute for my day off because a staff member stands in for the day and does work I've left for the children. If I do 5 days of course I get 3 days back, I do 10 days of courses I get 4 days back, I do 15 days courses I get 5 back. Not much of a profit.

PS. The cut money isn't going back into schools or education btw.

astra2000

cherub rock wrote: »

All teachers can't correct exams because there aren't enought exams to correct. I teach junior infants so how would I be qualified to correct the Leaving Cert?! We do courses in summer and during school term. Supervision of who? School planning days are done in term time. Teachers own planning is generally done in summer e.g. termly plans (just to take the load off come September)

Anyways the Croke Park agreement will probably bring all this in to effect. It won't make the slightest bit of difference to you. Except maybe you can be smug and go "Take that! Lazy teachers! Now you do even more work for less pay! [/chip]"

If the MANY teachers who haven't got permanent contracts, and don't get paid during summer have to do all this extra free work, how will they earn money?

Cherub rock i have to laugh that you reply to the one post where I did not state correcting/supervising for seconday school teachers obviously national school teachers can not correct exams dont see why they cant supervise though.Please stop equating the fact that people have a problem with teachers extra long holidays to jealousy,chips on our shoulders smugness, been idiots, I have a strong sense of fairness and I really dont think it is fair or justifiable to do a course for one day and get 3 days off in return for it, if this means I have a chip on my shoulder then so be it.Teacher in my kids school does these courses and takes only one day off during term time as there is no cover provided for these days off she feels it is not appropriate to get three days in return and no she is no martyr just can see the wood from the trees

Dr. No

Strata wrote: »

I personally don't think (all) teachers are lazy money grabbers. But I don't see what is wrong with discussing whether it might be better value for money for the state (and ultimately the taxpayer) if teachers worked longer hours/had less holidays e.g. shorter holidays for students, teachers not being paid extra to correct state exams/supervise state exams, not being paid extra to carry out for example "yard duty".

What makes you think that teachers are money grabbers?

Donkey Oaty

cherub rock wrote: »

Blah blah blah old news is old.

Parker's views on this are not old news. Go to the naughty step for giving cheek.

Catari Jaguar

astra2000 wrote: »

National school teachers can not correct exams dont see why they cant supervise though.

Hmm.. FAIL

Maybe it's because they work until June 30th. And the state exams finish before then.

to do a course for one day and get 3 days off in return for it,

Wrong!

Catari Jaguar

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Parker's views on this are not old news. Go to the naughty step for giving cheek.

Parkers views on EPV days is irrelvant as EPV days will be gone next year. How do EPV days affect you in any way shape or form? Like enough to be cross about on an internet forum?!

astra2000

parker kent wrote: »

In fairness, your post was a jumbled mess without spacing so it would be easy to miss that.

lol problem with the computer mouse keeps jumping all over the place will have to keep an eye on that!

Strata

cherub rock wrote: »

Blah blah blah old news is old. They're cutting our EPV days too. Basically the state has already cut teachers' wages by 25% (for a newbie to 33% for someone on the higher scale. They wanted to cut again, so there was a vote to FREEZE our pay (which when the cost of living rises will actually be a pay CUT) Doing more work for the same amount of money is effectively a pay cut. Why anyone agreed to this is beyond me! :mad:

Because your employer (the government) can't afford your salary anymore.

This "agreement" means the State can do any measure that regular Joe Soap complains about (appease the voters) and as we've signed basiocally a blank contract we can do nothing but put up & shut up.

No you won't "put up and shut up". You've said in a previous post that you are currently working to rule.

So they're gonna want to make us do summer courses, supervise kids in summer, work an extra hour of planning a week, take away the EPV days, only give increments based on results, take away posts of responsibility, make us do after school club/ breakfast club etc for no extra pay, have regular unscheduled departmental inspections... We don't know the scale of it yet, can only speculate. Better to not even think about it.

What is your problem with this? If you are a good teacher and have done all the class preparation which you claim to have done then an inspection surely shouldn't bother you.

YES I DO THINK THAT I SHOULD GET DAYS IN LIEU FOR SUMMER COURSES. I pay for the course, so learn more skills at zero cost to the state- the state pays zero for a subsitute for my day off because a staff member stands in for the day and does work I've left for the children. If I do 5 days of course I get 3 days back, I do 10 days of courses I get 4 days back, I do 15 days courses I get 5 back. Not much of a profit.

It is a cost to the state because they are paying your salary while you take a day off. Also if a substitute teacher is not employed when you take the day off then does that mean the other staff member is teaching your class and her class for the day?

Strata

Dr. No wrote: »

What makes you think that teachers are money grabbers?

I said I don't think all teachers are lazy money grabbers. I was responding to a post by Cherub Rock.

MagicSean

poodles wrote: »

They could do some of those courses no?

And on your days off work I suppose you spend your time doing courses to make you a better employee.

Donkey Oaty

cherub rock wrote: »

Parkers views on EPV days is irrelvant as EPV days will be gone next year. How do EPV days affect you in any way shape or form? Like enough to be cross about on an internet forum?!

I'd say you're a hoot at the PTA meetings.

Catari Jaguar

astra2000 wrote: »

I have a strong sense of fairness

Do you think what's going on in the education system is fair? Do you think the cuts are fair? Do you think the Croke Park agreement is fair? Do you think slashing the education budget is fair? Loss of jobs for SNAs, learning support and language support teachers is fair?

37 kids in a prefab classroom. Is that fair? Teacher tries to make do the best they can with limited resources (often paying for art materials with their own money/volunteering saturdays to coach GAA etc), and the gov decides the best thing to do is to cut teachers wages and make her do extra needless work for it (and she should be grateful that she wasn't cut again!)

Fair that because the state controls the purse strings they think that they can dip into teachers wages whenever they like to throw more money in to a black hole because they ****ed up the country with lending and corruption.

Fair that teachers are getting the blame when pr1cks like Sean Fitzpatrick gets off? Mary Harney spends €600 on a haircut FFS! Smokescreen much? We didn't cause this.

parker kent

cherub rock wrote: »

Parkers views on EPV days is irrelvant as EPV days will be gone next year. How do EPV days affect you in any way shape or form? Like enough to be cross about on an internet forum?!

This it what I don't understand, why are so many people so riled up about what is a minor aspect of being a teacher? You would think it was about teachers giving lads a clout of a duster, not about 3 days in lieu.

Catari Jaguar

parker kent wrote: »

This it what I don't understand, why are so many people so riled up about what is a minor aspect of being a teacher? You would think it was about teachers giving lads a clout of a duster, not about 3 days in lieu.

Bitterness? Ignorance? Nothingbettertobedoing-ness?

Strata

cherub rock wrote: »

Do you think what's going on in the education system is fair? Do you think the cuts are fair? Do you think the Croke Park agreement is fair? Do you think slashing the education budget is fair? Loss of jobs for SNAs, learning support and language support teachers is fair?

37 kids in a prefab classroom. Is that fair? Teacher tries to make do the best they can with limited resources (often paying for art materials with their own money/volunteering saturdays to coach GAA etc), and the gov decides the best thing to do is to cut teachers wages and make her do extra needless work for it (and she should be grateful that she wasn't cut again!)

Fair that because the state controls the purse strings they think that they can dip into teachers wages whenever they like to throw more money in to a black hole because they ****ed up the country with lending and corruption.

Fair that teachers are getting the blame when pr1cks like Sean Fitzpatrick gets off? Mary Harney spends €600 on a haircut FFS! Smokescreen much? We didn't cause this.

Well you could argue that teachers educated Sean Fitzpatrick and his ilk.. ...

Strata

cherub rock wrote: »

Bitterness? Ignorance? Nothingbettertobedoing-ness?

OR, it could be that I'm looking for ways to improve efficiency and get better value for money.

And Cherub Rock - why didn't you answer any of the questions I posed to you in response to your earlier post? Perhaps because you don't have answers?

astra2000

Cherub rock once again you only answer questions that suit you. Fair enough of course it is not possible for national school teachers to carry out supervision roles either but there is no denying (though I am sure you will do so) that some planning days and courses should be carried out during term time. With all due respect you are comming across as a lot more crosser and blinkered than any other poster from eithr side. Any way enough said for now enjoy the rest of your summer off and try not to take any of these comments made by people as personal, the majority of parents respect and value the work teachers do for our children but in the sense of work place fairness teachers holidays are too long. This does not affect me at all on a personal level as I am in the lucky position of having the choice of been able to be a stay at home parent so I am not jealous of you or anybody else am happy with my lot (though I wouldnt say no to your wages lol)[/QUOTE]

MagicSean

Strata wrote: »

OR, it could be that I'm looking for ways to improve efficiency and get better value for money.

And Cherub Rock - why didn't you answer any of the questions I posed to you in response to your earlier post? Perhaps because you don't have answers?

I doubt it. There are much greater practices to oppose out there than letting teachers take some days off to get some training. Just because a course isn't mandatory doesn't mean it shouldn't be encouraged.

Strata

k_mac wrote: »

I doubt it. There are much greater practices to oppose out there than letting teachers take some days off to get some training. Just because a course isn't mandatory doesn't mean it shouldn't be encouraged.

So just because something is a small inefficiency and a small waste of money it shouldn't be tackled and corrected??

parker kent

Strata wrote: »

Well you could argue that teachers educated Sean Fitzpatrick and his ilk.. ...

:eek: That is clutching at straws now.

I think you must take into account the massively important role teachers have in life. Most kinds see more of their teachers than their parents. It is a vital job and deserves respect. A few perks here and there are not a big deal. I had to look after groups of children on visits to the library before for an hour or so and it was draining. I can't imagine what that must be like 5 days a week and with much more responsibility. At least I had the teachers there with me if I needed a bail-out.

These are relatively minor details when compared to what else has happened in Ireland. A few days in lieu for training courses is not that big of a deal. If you want efficiency improvements I think there are far more worthy cause to complain about in Ireland.

Catari Jaguar

Strata wrote: »

cherub rock wrote: »

Blah blah blah old news is old. They're cutting our EPV days too. Basically the state has already cut teachers' wages by 25% (for a newbie to 33% for someone on the higher scale. They wanted to cut again, so there was a vote to FREEZE our pay (which when the cost of living rises will actually be a pay CUT) Doing more work for the same amount of money is effectively a pay cut. Why anyone agreed to this is beyond me! :mad:

Because your employer (the government) can't afford your salary anymore.

This "agreement" means the State can do any measure that regular Joe Soap complains about (appease the voters) and as we've signed basiocally a blank contract we can do nothing but put up & shut up.

No you won't "put up and shut up". You've said in a previous post that you are currently working to rule.

So they're gonna want to make us do summer courses, supervise kids in summer, work an extra hour of planning a week, take away the EPV days, only give increments based on results, take away posts of responsibility, make us do after school club/ breakfast club etc for no extra pay, have regular unscheduled departmental inspections... We don't know the scale of it yet, can only speculate. Better to not even think about it.

What is your problem with this? If you are a good teacher and have done all the class preparation which you claim to have done then an inspection surely shouldn't bother you.

YES I DO THINK THAT I SHOULD GET DAYS IN LIEU FOR SUMMER COURSES. I pay for the course, so learn more skills at zero cost to the state- the state pays zero for a subsitute for my day off because a staff member stands in for the day and does work I've left for the children. If I do 5 days of course I get 3 days back, I do 10 days of courses I get 4 days back, I do 15 days courses I get 5 back. Not much of a profit.

It is a cost to the state because they are paying your salary while you take a day off. Also if a substitute teacher is not employed when you take the day off then does that mean the other staff member is teaching your class and her class for the day?

Use the quote button properly. This is gibberish.

Donkey Oaty

parker kent wrote: »

:eek: I can't imagine what that must be like 5 days a week and with much more responsibility.

It takes its toll on one's patience and stress levels, if Cherub's posts are anything to go by. Mind you, in fairness, her anger is directed at the system, not the kids.

Strata

cherub rock wrote: »

Strata wrote: »

Use the quote button properly. This is gibberish.

That's your response to my questions? Really??

Catari Jaguar

Strata wrote: »

So just because something is a small inefficiency and a small waste of money it shouldn't be tackled and corrected??

It's perfectly efficient. The teachers pay for the priviledge of getting extra training. The govt makes up to €120 per course participant. How can there be any fault with extra training? And what's wrong with making extra training that little bit more appealing?

The teachers have already worked the days during the summer. They're getting a portion of them back in term time. As you know we are paid a SALARY that is spread across the year, not paid to be on holidays as such.

You can only receive a maximum of 5 EPV days, and that's only if you did 15 course days. So thats efficient and a profit for the state. It means working 10 extra days. Or 2 extra days out of 5 for 3 EPV days.

The children don't lose out as a principal, LST comes in and follws the class teachers plan. The state doesn't pay for a sub.

The EPV days are on the way out anyways. Happy?

Strata

parker kent wrote: »

:eek: That is clutching at straws now.

I think you must take into account the massively important role teachers have in life. Most kinds see more of their teachers than their parents. It is a vital job and deserves respect. A few perks here and there are not a big deal. I had to look after groups of children on visits to the library before for an hour or so and it was draining. I can't imagine what that must be like 5 days a week and with much more responsibility. At least I had the teachers there with me if I needed a bail-out.

These are relatively minor details when compared to what else has happened in Ireland. A few days in lieu for training courses is not that big of a deal. If you want efficiency improvements I think there are far more worthy cause to complain about in Ireland.

So you do think that just because something is a small inefficiency and a small waste of money it shouldn't be tackled and corrected?

ejmaztec

Dr. No wrote: »

What makes you think that teachers are money grabbers?

I think it's something to do with the grabbing and the money, but I could be wrong.

funkyjebus

didnt bother reading all of the posts, but the op should do some fact searching. teacher have to pay for this course themselves (circa 400) and the 3 days off are unpaid. so teacher shouldnt have the right to taka a day off for somethong like a sibling wedding, etc. you sir are cleary jealous.

Catari Jaguar

Strata wrote: »

cherub rock wrote: »

That's your response to my questions? Really??

Who's fault is it that the govt can't pay our salaries? Teachers??? Making us do extra work won't change the pay we get. We've been cut & frozen. You can't complain. What'll you do if teachers realise they're better off on dole and quit?

What's wrong with working to rule? My Union told us t do it. We have to. Do you do extra work that you're not paid for in your line of work? Can't do work to rule next year when all the new measures are introduced.

We don't know what the inspectpors are looking for. They'll have an agenda based on not wanting to fund schools or give teachers their increments. So things like the roll book being in blue pen & not black. Do you not think that dealing with 30 crazy junior infants and trying to settle them is hard enough w/o fearing that some one is gona barge in and disrupt it all. I had to go through 2 years with an inspector. She's was a dragon. I was so stressed I was on antibiotics 4 times a year but couldn't take sick days as I needed to be available for her visits.

Any teacher worth their salt knows that "class preparation" doesn't equate to a satisfactory inspectorate visit.

No it's not a cost to the state for EPVs because we already worked them in the summer and paid to do them.

You clearly know NOTHING about the practicalities or day-to-day life in the teaching profession. Pie in the sky ideas.

Strata

cherub rock wrote: »

It's perfectly efficient. The teachers pay for the priviledge of getting extra training. The govt makes up to €100 per course participant. How can there be any fault with extra training? And what's wrong with making extra training that little it more appealing?

The teachers have already worked the days during the summer. They're getting a portion of them back in term time. As you know we are paid a SALARY that is spread across the year, not paid to be on holidays as such.


You can only receive a maximum of 5 EPV days, and that's only if you did 15 course days. So thats efficient and a profit for the state.So just because something is a small inefficiency and a small waste of money it shouldn't be tackled and corrected?? Or 2 extra days out of 5 for 3 EPV days.


The children don't lose out as a principal, LST comes in and follws the class teachers plan. The state doesn't pay for a sub.

The EPV days are on the way out anyways. Happy?

What is an LST? And please answer the queries I raised in my post that you called gibberish. My questions are in bold. I apologise for not following the correct protocol when replying to a quote.

Catari Jaguar

Strata wrote: »

What is an LST? And please answer the queries I raised in my post that you called gibberish. My questions are in bold. I apologise for not following the correct protocol when replying to a quote.

I did, look up ^^^

LST = learning support teacher/ language support teacher

parker kent

Strata wrote: »

So you do think that just because something is a small inefficiency and a small waste of money it shouldn't be tackled and corrected?

Obviously not. But there are bigger problems in Ireland. This issue is like worrying about a paper cut when there is a bullet wound elsewhere.

I am not even that sure that this is a real example of an inefficiency. Deciding here on the basis of two wildly opposite viewpoints is not much help.

Mr. Presentable

whiteman19 wrote: »

not really. 3 months off during summer + 2 weeks each at Easter and Christmas + 2 weeks off for midterm breaks + all bank holidays = roughly 4 and a half months.

Which three months in summer? 30 June to 30 August this year. Let me count...oh, I get a total there of two.