Tenants gone, house filthy, rent unpaid - options?

SwampThing

I'll keep this as brief as I can:

We have a house that the tenants have left, without notice - we found out when the rent wasn't paid and we went to the house. I'd say they're gone about 2 weeks. There is other elements of rent also outstanding.

The house is like a squat - filthy! Flies all over waste food, every room completely filthy, bins left full inside and out - just horrific. Only good thing is no major structural damage.

I've no forwarding address. Social Welfare won't give us any details, PTRB are practically useless

What are my options? My immediate thoughts are follow them for every penny of unpaid rent and costs to put the house back to how it was, but how realistic is that? I can't just chalk it up to experience - it'll cost a bomb to put right and the outstanding rent is over a grand.

How do I follow these 'people' ? Do I send a solicitors letter to the social welfare seeking their current address?

Options/opinions please.

Cheers.

January

Social Welfare can't and won't tell you where they've gone. I think you do unfortunately have to chalk it up to experience... unless you contact PRTB and see if they're registered elsewhere... have you got a copy of the form you sent to the PRTB, their PPSN's should be on that?

antoinolachtnai

I think you could seek a judgement through PRTB. PRTB may insist that you serve notice on them. This would not be a lot of use in practice. But it might be.

Also, you need to be careful to make sure that legally speaking, they have abandoned the property. A certain amount of time has to pass.

Do all these things but don't expect to actually get any money back. I would check out that issue with the abandonment, but I would be careful not to waste money with solicitors.

Take lots of photos and then get the place cleaned up and ready for the market which will begin to pick up in late august/september.

SwampThing

I have their PTRB document, so I have their PPS numbers.

I can't just let these scumbags walk away from this - they've destroyed a lovely property (the painter finished a full top to bottom re-paint the day they moved in) - they've left the bins, ESB and Gas unpaid, broken the washing machine, stolen a portable TV, left food in the presses, fridge - the house is alive with flies (and whatever else). The garden is like a jungle.

I know someone is going to say I should have kept a better eye on it - I did visit the property relatively recently (within last 3 moths) and all seemed fine, condition-wise.

There's a long story behind the rent, but there always is.

Anyway, what's the best result we can get from the PTRB - will they pay the outstanding rent, cover costs of damage, chase them for the money - how does it work.

As for the solicitor - I have to do something. These b'tards have now gone on to do this to some other landlord and they seem untouchable.

Thanks for the replies.

MidlandsM

You need to chalk it down to experience and move on. You're at nothing following these individuals.

SwampThing

MidlandsM wrote: »

You need to chalk it down to experience and move on. You're at nothing following these individuals.

Thanks but I have to see there is some natural justice here.

The PRTB site mentions tribunals etc. Do the PRTB track them down and are they compelled to attend a tribunal, if it goes that far? What powers do they have?

Thanks again.

sesna

Your main complaint seems to be uncleanliness. If there's no structural damage whats the problem? Nothing a mop, bucket and some fly spray won't sort out.

antoinolachtnai

No one is compelled to attend anything. They won't chase them for the money if you get a decision in your favour. That's your job. You are not going to find this a very satisfactory process. At the end of the day even if you do catch up with them, your former tenants aren't going to have any money to pay you your rent and compensation. There is going to be very little you can do if that turns out to be the case (which it probably will).

If you are in Galway, you should talk to other landlords to find out if there is anything else you need to know. It's not a big place. Word gets around of where people are and what they have done.

sesna

My friend had tenants who stopped paying rent for nine months before they left. He had to chalk down to experience. The law is pretty useless in this country for protection of both tenants and landlords.

SwampThing

Thanks for the info guys.

Sesna, I've a pair of marigolds here then with your name on them. :rolleyes:

sesna

SwampThing wrote: »

Thanks for the info guys.

Sesna, I've a pair of marigolds here then with your name on them. :rolleyes:

Think you need them alot more. Good luck with the mop, its actually not that bad once you try it and stop considering it beneath you.

ricman

Once you take on rent allowance tenants ,you take a chance ,they might stop paying the rent ,the esb etc if you find out where they live you could take em to the small claims court.The limit is 1500 euros damages ,i think.Hold onto receipts plus esb bills.Small claims court is free to go to.
I ,TS ALMOST impossible to be a landlord and not get ripped off by some1 at
some point,unless you are gonna ask for 2k deposits from all tenants ,not likely in this economy.so they left a mess and paid no esb,it could be alot worse.MOST of the expenses you have can be claimed against tax, if you pay a vat registered
painter etc You will not pay tax on rent you never recieved.
i know someone who recieved no rent for 12 months.
the welfare officer is not allowed to give you info,because of the data protection act.The safest option is choose tenants carefully.I presume you got a deposit.
put a new lock on the front door.TO be secure, they probably still have the keys.

SwampThing

Sensa, you don't know me from Adam or what I consider beneath me or not, so I politely tell you to f-off.


Thanks ricman - all sensible comments. I don't think 1500 will cover unpaid rent and cleanup/refurb bills, so I'll have to try PRTB route for now I think. I've read some of their judgements and tribunal decisions and there seems to be a precedent of awarding costs or expenses above the original security deposit for 'unnatural wear and tear', so there may e some light down that tunnel yet.

Thanks again.

antoinolachtnai

You cannot pursue a tenant through the small claims procedure.

travellingbid

Had this happen to me last year. Two students. Contacted the accommodation office in the Uni they attended and they contact them to tell them a complaint had been made against them and it would have to go on their record if they didn't contact me. They left some abusive messages on my phone which I advised the college of. They paid the ESB but not the 2 months rent they owed.
Hard lesson to learn:mad:

SwampThing

Didn't know that antoinolachtnai - is there a reason?

tommy21

I presume you have changed locks at least?

antoinolachtnai

You can't use it because it is for claims against businesses, either by consumers or other businesses. The former tenants are not a business.

In addition, the courts will not deal with a claim where the PRTB has proper jurisdiction.

the_syco

SwampThing wrote: »

stolen a portable TV

I'm pretty sure you can get the Gardai involved for this. Bring criminal charges against them. See can you gain any other information about them from these proceedings?

SwampThing wrote: »

Didn't know that antoinolachtnai - is there a reason?

Yup. The SCC can only be used against businesses, but not customers, as it were.

sesna

SwampThing wrote: »

they've destroyed a lovely property (the painter finished a full top to bottom re-paint the day they moved in) - they've left the bins, ESB and Gas unpaid, broken the washing machine, stolen a portable TV, left food in the presses, fridge - the house is alive with flies (and whatever else). The garden is like a jungle.

Maybe you should have gotten off your arse and pushed a lawnmower around for a few minutes on your property - that would be your responsibility afterall. Let me guess - you were happy to let the place fester while the money was coming in. Now you're upset that the tenants have gone :rolleyes:

Ciara22

Hi SwampThing,

Its a very unfortunate thing to happen but the PRTB tends to favour tenants over landlords.

You can spend your time lodging a complaint and go through the lengthy, confusing process that they set out (sometimes, it seems like they dont even know what the correct process is) but in the end, even if they do make a judgement against your tenants, they have absolutely no power to make them pay any costs at all. The most they can do is publish the case on their website but honestly, what landlord scans that to check if their new tenants are previous offenders?

Any unpaid utility bills should have been in their names so are not applicable to you. Just make sure to close off their accounts and back into yours so you dont incur cut-off fees.

As for the rest of the costs, Im afraid youre on your own at the end of the day. PRTB cant do anything and a solicitor will cost you more than you will get out of it.

Ciara22

Oh btw sesna, any standard lease agreement says that the tenant is responsible for the upkeep of the gardens so its not an unreasonable expectation.

Doom

I know its no help now, but for future make it your business to know where at least one of them works or which college they're at

Blizzard

Swampthing - I feel for you! It's absolutely unbelievable what some tenants will do or not do to a property. Furthermore, some [not all] individuals who are getting a free house from Social Welfare do absolutely NOTHING to maintain the property only destroy whatever they get - and get away with it. This is another example of what a joke this country has become; if social was paying for a house that was destroyed there should be some policy about a tenant such as this not being able to get another one in the future.

Maybe you should have gotten off your arse and pushed a lawnmower around for a few minutes on your property - that would be your responsibility afterall. Let me guess - you were happy to let the place fester while the money was coming in. Now you're upset that the tenants have gone

Sesna - you are probably on social yourself or your in la la land. How many people do you know that rent a house that comes with a gardener? Tenants in all rented houses, not apartments, that I know of are responsible for mowing their own gardens. It sounds like you are a bit envious of swampthing, who was able to go out there and purchase a buy to let property and appears to have been doing things the right way until some useless, freeloading, waste of space turns the house upside down and leaves without a care in the world. You really should read your replies before you post them. Maybe you live in a world where you have an employed butler, but I doubt it by your response.:rolleyes:

Swampthing, I think you should do whatever you can without making yourself crazy in order to 'go after' these individuals meaning making the complaint with PRTB in writing and the same for Social Welfare as they should be aware of where their housing money is going and what these lowlifes have done to your property. After that, I'd agree with the others, chalk it up to experience, count yourself lucky they didn't do any structural damage and try to restore the place and get it rented out to better tenants next time. Do your research when vetting the next tenants and go with your gut. Good luck.

sesna

Blizzard wrote: »

Sesna - you are probably on social yourself or your in la la land. How many people do you know that rent a house that comes with a gardener? Tenants in all rented houses, not apartments, that I know of are responsible for mowing their own gardens. It sounds like you are a bit envious of swampthing, who was able to go out there and purchase a buy to let property and appears to have been doing things the right way until some useless, freeloading, waste of space turns the house upside down and leaves without a care in the world. You really should read your replies before you post them. Maybe you live in a world where you have an employed butler, but I doubt it by your response.:rolleyes:

Anyone with any sort of job was able to go "out there" and buy a property. Im not envious that I dont have a huge burden of negative equity around my neck now. As for the rest of your post, I can only laugh.

3DataModem

You should not be liable for utilities that were in tenant names. A tenant ran out on me owing the ESB two grand after 3 months (he purchased a tv and video on instalments) and a 1500 mobile bill. I called the ESB, Eircom and Meteor and gave them all the contact info I had (referees, employers, etc)... they were very grateful. This was (probably) not in breach of DPA as I had a clause in the lease covering provision of referee information to utility companies. I put the ESB back in my name no problem.

Grizzly 45

From a good few years experiance in this game and alot of horror stories and cleaning upmesses you wouldnt belive.[Like 9months worth of ****ty nappies from a cupboard.]

ESB,Gas,Cable,etc.
Keep it in the landlords name,and get a substantial refundable deposit.That way if they dont pay the bill,they use up their deposit.Once thats gone,you can cut off the facilities if they are not paying.

Cleaning deposit.
Non refundable.No matter how much somone cleans a place or keeps it clean.You still have to clean it[paint,it repair worn and torn things]So figure how much two days worth of work for you or a man will cost for this deposit.


Inventory,
Everything.Go thru the place with the tenant,agree on damages or items that were not the best ,so that there is no dispute on damages later.
I find it is worth photoing or videoing with a date/time stamp camera the property before somone moves in and afterwards if it is a kip.
Inspect
The property regulary.Keep your side of the bargin,and make sure they do to.
NO PETS SIMPLE!Amazing how different a place is without a dog or cat loose in it.
Personally,I wont have rent allowance tenants ever again.
Have had too many problems with them,drunks,druggies,messies,etc.Lost money on those types.Better to have a property empty than being sticking in grands and having it totalled every 6months.

I have been stung before as well,but you WILL get to be a good judge of chacter pretty quick of prospective tenants.Ask for references off previous landlords as well,and CHECK them.If they are genuine they will have no problem with the landlords addy and vice versa.Also if you can get a reference for where they work and bank account details,DD is the way to go.If they have problems with this,find somone else maybe.
This is standard procedure in modern life nowadays.In the US they want in some states your police record and credit rating...


Trouble is with this .Everyone in the CT years thought this would be a grand way to pay for the mortage and climb the property ladder with little work involved,or "shure they are just students,etc.Any old crap will do!"
Trouble is people ,being a LL is work and a fulltime job as well.No one is going to look after your property as well as you will.If you wont put the effort into it you will get crap tenants that will leave it like crap.
Forget INMHO letting agencies and property maintenance companies.The first want a fat fee and dont really care who they stuff into your property.
Maintence companies ,cost alot for the least effort on their part.Save your money and do it yourself.

kenbrady

Blizzard wrote: »

How many people do you know that rent a house that comes with a gardener? Tenants in all rented houses, not apartments, that I know of are responsible for mowing their own gardens.

Since December 1st 2009 it has been a legal requirement for landlords to maintain the gardens of a rented property.

Blizzard wrote: »

You really should read your replies before you post them.

The_Conductor

Guys- I'm issuing a blanket warning on this thread- if you disagree with what someone else posts- refute it factually- do not personalise your replies.

Its not that difficult to remain civil to one another. Anymore misbehaviour will result in folk taking holidays from posting in this forum.......

variety

kenbrady wrote: »

Since December 1st 2009 it has been a legal requirement for landlords to maintain the gardens of a rented property.

True, but that only applies if a lease has been signed on or after 01/12/2009.

astrofool

variety wrote: »

True, but that only applies if a lease has been signed on or after 01/12/2009.

What's the story if the landlord puts it in the lease (post 01/12/09) that the tenant is responsible for garden upkeep? Who do the authorities go after?

Does it apply to front and back gardens?

Seems a bit ridiculous that a landlord would need once a week access to maintain a property. Also stupid that someone would rent a place with a garden, but not be prepared to maintain (assuming lawn mower was supplied).