Metro North Investment???

Head The Wall

No irish contractor really has the expertise for the underground sections

RichardAnd

Head The Wall wrote: »

No irish contractor really has the expertise for the underground sections

I thought as much. We'll probably have to get in a German firm or something for that.

murphaph

Head The Wall wrote: »

No irish contractor really has the expertise for the underground sections

Weren't Irishenco (Ascon today?) heavily involved in the Port Tunnel? The design of the tunnels and the actual boring/lining may likely not go to an Irish firm but the fitting out (electricals, ventilation, ducting, plumbing, tiling, painting, plastering, station fit out etc. etc. etc.) can be done with Irish labour, though this would not be a primary reason for building Metro North and the Interconnector IMO. It should be built because Dublin needs it to grow (densify) and be an attractive place to live and do business.

Head The Wall

You're right (Surfacing & fit out) . That system worked out a treat as well.

http://carillionirishencoltd.buaconsulting.com/Dublin_City_Council_tunnel.htm

Pete_Cavan

Head The Wall wrote: »

No irish contractor really has the expertise for the underground sections

As with all multi billion euro PPP contracts, the bidding consortia are made up of large international construction and civil engineering firms major investment banks. The original four bidding contractors were vetted and have been reduced down to two who the RPA are currently negotiating with, see here; http://www.rpa.ie/en/news/Pages/TwoMajorBoostsforMetroNorth.aspx

These international contractors will also look for an Irish contractor to join their team in order to use the Irish contractors experience of the construction industry here (H&S regulations, accounts to be keep, VAT payments etc.), use their suppliers (concrete, steel, etc. will have to be bought in this country) and their knowledge of the city (thousands of tonnes of material will be remove and will need to be disposed of).

Nehaxak wrote: »

It's amazing the amount of you that think many of these possible construction jobs created would even go to Irish people at all. I'd hazard a bet that at least 90% of them will go to cheap labour subbies from Poland and suchlike.
Don't be kidding yourselves here thinking it'll bring a swath of Irish people off the dole.

I very much doubt this will happen. First of all the majority of eastern European workers who were here to work have gone to Poland and the Ukraine to build the infrastructure they need to host Euro 2012 (many Irish construction companys have also gone over there for a slice of that pie). The wage demands of many Irish construction works has dropped significantly in the last three years so now we have a highly skilled and experienced construction workforce (Irish construction workers are considered to be amoung the best in the world which is why many countrys except large numbers of Irish construction workers) at competitive rates so it is unlikely the winning consortium we bring in foreign workers. If Irish people would rather stay on the dole then work on a project like this then we must reduce the dole.

Head The Wall

GAMA Strike

liammur

An outrageous waste of money, but what can we expect.

Afterall, this FF crowd were leasing buildings at an enormous cost for voting machines for years that were known to be unworkable.

CptMackey

Some waste of money really. Does this country need to waste it on another rail project for dublin , which just happens to go through land that was bought by developers who FF are great friends with.

It wont create any jobs either, any construction company who wins the contract will bring in specialised tunnelling personal from abroad. ie London
More bs from the government really

murphaph

CptMackey wrote: »

Some waste of money really. Does this country need to waste it on another rail project for dublin , which just happens to go through land that was bought by developers who FF are great friends with.

It wont create any jobs either, any construction company who wins the contract will bring in specialised tunnelling personal from abroad. ie London
More bs from the government really

How do you figure that the money spent on Luas (I presume that's what you mean) was a waste?

Luas (both lines, disconnected from each other as they are) is incredibly succesful. It should be built upon.

Most of the land MN will pass under is already developed btw. and a lot more of it is under the airports safety zone so will never be developed.

Are you also against the Interconnector project? even though it passes almost exclusively under already heavily developed land?

liammur

All of thhis would be fine if the country wasn't bust. We can no more afford this metro than to be paying the likes of bertie ahern to have a state merc for the rest of his life.

astrofool

liammur wrote: »

All of thhis would be fine if the country wasn't bust. We can no more afford this metro than to be paying the likes of bertie ahern to have a state merc for the rest of his life.

Have you read any of the thread? This project will pay for itself, is getting partially funded by the EU, and is part of a PPP, so the state won't have to put all the money into it up front.

liammur

'The project will pay for itself' GULP

Lol, some of you guys really do believe everything you are told.

zootroid

I can't get over the opposition to this project. The transport system in Dublin is an absolute joke. The LUAS was a start, but definitely needs to be built on. The problem with trams however is they move too slow, and so an underground system needs to be built for areas that are further out from the city centre.

The MN will enable people along its route to get to the city centre / the airport / swords very quickly, and take more cars off the streets of the city centre. Even if it costs 5 billion, at least the infrastructure will be there for a hundred years (look at the London underground)

liammur

i think people are just wondering is it needed considering there is going to be massive emigration etc.

zootroid

Two things, firstly emigration won't last forever. By the time MN is built, it is conceivable that emigration will have stopped, and the economy won't be in as bad a state as it currently is.

Secondly, it is an infrastructure project for the future, that will last decades. Taking such a short term view is dangerous, and one of the symptoms of what happened during the Celtic tiger, and why we find ourselves in the mess we're currently in.

The last time there was an announcement concerning more tax-payers money was being poured into Anglo, it didn't get this sort of opposition. Now the government is finally doing something right with trying to address the traffic problems Dublin has, and offer a decent public transport system, and people are against it.

5 billion is a lot of money, but I think it's worth it. Having lived abroad in a city with a good transport system (Melbourne), the difference it makes to everyday life is unreal. I would hope the MN is the start of an underground system for Dublin.

liammur

Well i'm going to agree with u on 1 thing

never before in history was money wasted so badly as on anglo. politicians should hang their heads in shame forever over that.

astrofool

liammur wrote: »

'The project will pay for itself' GULP

Lol, some of you guys really do believe everything you are told.

Who told me anything? These types of infrastructure projects last for decades (london underground going 100+), and there is a massive vacuum in Dublin for good public transport. You only have to look at the success of the Luas to see that the MN will be a positive for the tax payer in the long run.

jd

The construction cost will probably come in at somewhere under 2 billion, but the state doesn't have to put the money up. What happens is that once the metro is operational, the state has to pay the ppp investors over the course of 35 years or so (somewhere between 90 -120 million a year I'd guess).

unit 1

cson wrote: »

Shannon isn't major I'm afraid Liam.

As an aside; with the construction of the interurbans Shannon could have been a major hub for the West if the DAA hadn't decided to run it into the ground.

A high speed train with one stop say in athlone and shannon could be a second terminal for dublin with a journey time of say 1.5 hours tops.

liammur

I'd agree with the poster who said DAA has run shannon into the ground. THere is about 10 flight a day operating there.

astrofool

Shannon is in the wrong place and wrong decade. It's a holdover of the range limitations of early planes and if anything, would have been dead years ago, were it not for the ridiculous regulations around it (mandatory stopover, limiting the size of Dublin Airport runway so fully laden freight jets have to land at Shannon).

liammur

Surely the airport should be allowed to run itself?

murphaph

unit 1 wrote: »

A high speed train with one stop say in athlone and shannon could be a second terminal for dublin with a journey time of say 1.5 hours tops.

Sorry, but that is pie in the sky rubbish.

If Ireloand wants to have a hub airport, transfering between terminals will need to be a bit quicker than 1.5 hours FFS!

murphaph

liammur wrote: »

Surely the airport should be allowed to run itself?

Totally agree. Would cut off all subsidies and let it sink or swim myself.

kuntboy

liammur wrote: »

never before in history was money wasted so badly as on anglo. politicians should hang their heads in shame forever over that.

I understood that Anglo owes German banks billions and the government is under orders from Germany/Europe to not let any bank fail, otherwise they will stop buying our bonds. Also isn't the "systemic" thing partly true, Anglo's collapse would have had some effect?

astrofool

liammur wrote: »

Surely the airport should be allowed to run itself?

What does this mean exactly? "run itself", it is currently a big black hole on the balance sheet, if it were to run itself, without any state support, or regulations which sustain it, it would last about a month before being in a worse position than Anglo Irish. It's currently the 5th busiest airport on the Island (3rd in the Republic after Dublin and Cork).

I'd hate to think what airport taxes they would have to charge to balance the books.

syklops

astrofool wrote: »

What does this mean exactly? "run itself", it is currently a big black hole on the balance sheet, if it were to run itself, without any state support, or regulations which sustain it, it would last about a month before being in a worse position than Anglo Irish. It's currently the 5th busiest airport on the Island (3rd in the Republic after Dublin and Cork).

I'd hate to think what airport taxes they would have to charge to balance the books.

Considering the amount Shannon is costing us every week, why dont we offer it for sale to O'Leary. Would he be interested? His own terminal, and jumping off point for international flights? I think he would jump at the chance.

astrofool

syklops wrote: »

Considering the amount Shannon is costing us every week, why dont we offer it for sale to O'Leary. Would he be interested? His own terminal, and jumping off point for international flights? I think he would jump at the chance.

He'd take the int'l slots, shut the airport and have them fly out of another airport. Ryanair have been reducing the slots from Shannon for years.

Sleepy

All for Metro North myself. TBH, an underground network in Dublin should have been constructed decades ago.

liammur

There is no question shannon airport is a loss maker now, but having it run by a competitor is irish style business. The shannon board wants autonomy and 1 director left over this interference by the DAA. If it fails, it fails.

Shannon owns a lot of land, maybe that's the real reason, they may sell that first and then let it off to fend for itself.