Accounting period

alksander

I have some questions on account period and would be really thankful if someone knows the answers.

A limited company incorporated on the 01/05/09 will need to submit the first CRO annual return after 6 months on 01/11/09. Probably no accounts attached yet. The second annual return is 01/11/10.

The accounting period must not be longer then 12 months after commencing business. If say commencement date is 01/05/09, than the latest time possible for ending the period is 01/05/10.

The corporation tax (CT) return must be submitted at latest 9 months after end of financial period, this setting it would be 01/02/11.

Now what happens if for some reason on the TR2 form (registration at Revenue) the 'date when the accounts will be made up to' field was filled out to 01/11/09 and now Revenue believes that's the end of financial period. The CT return must be submitted 01/08/10.

In this case the first financial year is 6 months (01/05/09 - 01/11/09) and the second is 12 months (01/11/09 - 01/11/10)?

In the CRO annual return there is a field to note what the accounts are made for, so in this case the CRO return dated 01/11/10 will have accounts for 01/05/09 - 01/11/09 ?

Is it possible to change the account period held at Revenue? Or this is not advised?

dbran

Hi

Once you send in your CT1 made up to a certain period this will displace whatever period you previously put as the year end. However no period can be greater then 12 months in length from the date of the last accounting year end.

Hope this helps


dbran

alksander

So probably it would be fine to:
1. submit the return now (01/08/10) with the original ending of 01/11/09.
2. submit the new return on or before 01/02/11 with the correct ending of 01/05/10.

As the current return must be submitted or the change must be communicated with them right now or they will impose fines (at least that's on the form).

Is this correct dbran?

Bookkeeper09

When you are filing a CT return with a set of accounts that covers a period of greater than 12 months...you need to file 2 CT1's
The first one should cover the period from date of incorporation for 12 months.
The second should cover from the date 12 months after the Date of Incorporation to the end of your accounting period.
Your first trading period can be greater than 12 months....its the tax return that cannot cover a period greater than 12 months

dbran

alksander wrote: »

So probably it would be fine to:
1. submit the return now (01/08/10) with the original ending of 01/11/09.
2. submit the new return on or before 01/02/11 with the correct ending of 01/05/10.

As the current return must be submitted or the change must be communicated with them right now or they will impose fines (at least that's on the form).

Is this correct dbran?

Why not just submit one corporation tax return for the year to 1/05/10? on or before 1/2/11?

I believe you are getting mixed up between corporation tax return and the CRO return. the 1st cro return goes in after 6 months 1/11/09 with just the annual return alone and no accounts. the next return will go in on on 1/11/10 together with the accounts to 1/5/10.

Dbran

alksander

dbran wrote: »

Why not just submit one corporation tax return for the year to 1/05/10? on or before 1/2/11?

I believe you are getting mixed up between corporation tax return and the CRO return. the 1st cro return goes in after 6 months 1/11/09 with just the annual return alone and no accounts. the next return will go in on on 1/11/10 together with the accounts to 1/5/10.

Dbran

The only reason I am thinking about this is that I received pre-filled CT1 returns from Revenue with the end of period date (01/11/09) filled in plus the form has the statement that is must be filed within 9 months of that end. Also it states missing to file is an offence.

So if there is now way to tell them to change the date on their records I believe I have to file this to avoid fines.

J.Ryan

Spilting into 2 parts

CRO Return

you are correct in stating that the first return needs to be made up to 1-11-09 and no accounts need be filed.

The second return is due on 1-11-11 and assuming you complete form B73 (or is it B73A), then you need not file accounts with that return either, once the new ARD (Annual Return Date) is within 6 months of the old one and within 9 months of what ever year end you decide on.


Tax return,

Select when you want your year end to be, prepare a set of accounts up to that date, be they 11 months, 1 year, 13 months, whatever.

The first CT1 will cover from the date of incorporation to 1 year (or less if period is under one year).

The second CT1 (assuming period is over 12 months) will cover from1-5-11 till your period end.




Should you have any further queries, feel free to pm me.

J.Ryan

alksander wrote: »

I have some questions on account period and would be really thankful if someone knows the answers.

A limited company incorporated on the 01/05/09 will need to submit the first CRO annual return after 6 months on 01/11/09. Probably no accounts attached yet. The second annual return is 01/11/10.

The accounting period must not be longer then 12 months after commencing business. If say commencement date is 01/05/09, than the latest time possible for ending the period is 01/05/10.

The corporation tax (CT) return must be submitted at latest 9 months after end of financial period, this setting it would be 01/02/11.

Now what happens if for some reason on the TR2 form (registration at Revenue) the 'date when the accounts will be made up to' field was filled out to 01/11/09 and now Revenue believes that's the end of financial period. The CT return must be submitted 01/08/10.

In this case the first financial year is 6 months (01/05/09 - 01/11/09) and the second is 12 months (01/11/09 - 01/11/10)?

In the CRO annual return there is a field to note what the accounts are made for, so in this case the CRO return dated 01/11/10 will have accounts for 01/05/09 - 01/11/09 ?

Is it possible to change the account period held at Revenue? Or this is not advised?

Just to add,

The company was incorporated on 1 May 2009 (want to be sure of the year)

your biggest concern at the moment should be filling accounts in the CRO, if you have a financial year end of 1-11-09, these need to be in the CRO within 9 months (& 28 Days - ARD rules) of that date with a B1 or you are risking an incremental daily fine together with the lose of the audit exemption on those accounts.

alksander

J.Ryan wrote: »

Just to add,

The company was incorporated on 1 May 2009 (want to be sure of the year)

your biggest concern at the moment should be filling accounts in the CRO, if you have a financial year end of 1-11-09, these need to be in the CRO within 9 months (& 28 Days - ARD rules) of that date with a B1 or you are risking an incremental daily fine together with the lose of the audit exemption on those accounts.

Incorporated 1/05/09, first CRO ARD was 1/11/09 and it was submitted. On the TR2 form there was a typo and the 'To what date will annual accounts be made up?' question the answer was 1/11/09, so the Revenue sent out some months ago a CT1 form with the name, tax number and 'Account Period end date is 1/11/09' filled out.

On that form they say that it must be completed within 9 months of that end date.

However we would like to have the financial period for 1/05/09 - 1/05/10, so the CT1 will need to be filed by 1/2/11.

So as I understand our possibilities are either:

a, we must submit the CT1 return right now for the 6 months period, and maybe submit an update later on to state our preferred period (and include numbers for that 12 months)

b, ask Revenue to update their records that our end of date 1/05/10 and to discard the document they sent out

Here I do not think option b is viable. Is it?

Regarding CRO we do not really have questions, its pretty straight forward. The next ARD is 1/11/10, which will have accounts attached for either 1/05/09-1/11/09 or 1/05/09-1/05/10 ?

Thanks a million for all the replies already, valuable information contained in there.

PS: Rules on CRO ARD: http://www.mooreandco.ie/images/cro_inf_leaflet22v5.pdf

PS2: there is a company accounting period (to-from) field on the CT1 form, so probably the best thing is to submit it now 1/08/10 and include accounts for period 01/05/09 - 01/05/10. Short time though.

PS3:
CT1 2009 fill out manual: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/ct/forms/prior-year/ct1-09notes.pdf
CT1 2010 fill out manual: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/ct/forms/explanatory-notes-formct1.pdf

J.Ryan

As your accounting period is 1st May 2010, that is the date for the CT1, you do not have to use the pre-filled form.

you can

1) change the date on the form manually
2) submit the form online via ROS
3) download a blank CT1 from Revenue.ie

If you are really worried about the date that the Revenue are using, you (or your accountant) could write to your district and explain the error, they will then change the date.

The leaflet you linked is out of date, this is from the CRO website, go to No 22, it would be no harm to have a read of the others also.

http://www.cro.ie/ena/downloads-information-leaflets.aspx


I've not compared the two

J.Ryan

alksander wrote: »

....
PS2: there is a company accounting period (to-from) field on the CT1 form, so probably the best thing is to submit it now 1/08/10 and include accounts for period 01/05/09 - 01/05/10. Short time though.

PS3:
CT1 2009 fill out manual: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/ct/forms/prior-year/ct1-09notes.pdf
CT1 2010 fill out manual: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/ct/forms/explanatory-notes-formct1.pdf

You're over complicating matters, write to your revenue district (or email them) and they will change the accounting date, you can't file 2 consective returns of under a year each, and you can't include the same few months in both returns.