Rep. of Ireland vs Argentina, 11th August

Ush1

noodler wrote: »

Was pretty sure Trap had said he told Kilbane he was looking at other LB optinos but that Kilbane was happy enough to come as backup.

So try and control your outbursts - the man is there in service of his country even after being told he is unlikely to play unless it is necessary.

Calling them clowns might be abit much however both Kilbane and McShane are clearly now not up to the task of international football and we should be looking at alternatives.

noodler

Ush1 wrote: »

Calling them clowns might be abit much however both Kilbane and McShane are clearly now not up to the task of international football and we should be looking at alternatives.

I didn't say anything about McShane (he IS )a clown but I think I addressed what you just said about Kilbane in my previous post.

The Rooster

Augmerson wrote: »

Why do people keep refering to Argentineans as Argies? That's a derogatory nickname applied to people from Argentinia during the Falklands War, mostly banded about by the Sun and tabloids like that which were nothing but jingoistic pieces of thrash.

Bit like saying "I wonder if this will be a good training session for the Mick's/Paddy's for the Euro's?"

Utter tripe. You're the one being jingoistic bringing up the English and Falklands.

"Argies" is not derogatory in the slightest, in the very same way that "Aussie" is not derogatory. They are simply short-hand terms for Argentinian and Australian.

Augmerson

noodler wrote: »

Shut your Jap mouth!

PCros

sugarman wrote: »

Did'nt I fucking tell you's!

Get those 2 ****ING CLOWNS out of the team, not so much Kilbane, but he is a liability all the same & will be shown up again & again.

Andrews & Green starting too

Trap, your a muppet.

Give over! Trap has lost only 4 games from 22 with that squad 90% of the time.

Thats not a bad return

noodler

The Rooster wrote: »

Utter tripe. You're the one being jingoistic bringing up the English and Falklands.

"Argies" is not derogatory in the slightest, in the very same way that "Aussie" is not derogatory. They are simply short-hand terms for Argentinian and Australian.

I am not sure tbh.

I know for a fact that Jap is considered a dergoatory name, for instance that only came about during WW2.

I don't know the origins of the word Argies though.

Augmerson

noodler wrote: »

I am not sure tbh.

I know for a fact that Jap is considered a dergoatory name, for instance that only came about during WW2.

I don't know the origins of the word Argies though.

Tbh any word can be given a derogatory meaning by it's user, it's all about who is saying it and how they say it. The English have a habit of shortening words, either making it easier to fit onto the page of a newspaper or just quicker to say as they can be quite playful with language. I wouldn't call someone from Japan a Jap though. It wouldn't be that I was taking the piss out of them, it's just that the word has become too associated with racism towards people from Japan after WWII, same as Argie has been corrupted since the Falklands.

Polar101

Warper wrote: »

I was hoping Veron would play, has he retired?

I think they only wanted Europe-based players for this one.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

I'd call the Japanese "Japs", but I wouldn't call the Chinese "Chinks".

Splainc

I wonder how Green will get on. Looked decent in the friendlies before the WC but prob a once off.

Paleface

noodler wrote: »

I don't know the origins of the word Argies though.

I'm pretty sure it came from a newspaper headline about the Falklands War.

"Argy Bargy" I think it was.

Stevecw

Liam Lawrence out of the match according to 2fm there. Its ending up being a a weakish team at this stage. Especially if Doyle and Dunne miss out.

Edit: Fahey takes his place. And seems as if Dunne will be ok too

IRISHSPORTSGUY

emc2 wrote: »

Team Named:

Manchester City shot-stopper Shay Given will start in goal, with a back four of Paul McShane, Richard Dunne, John O'Shea and Kevin Kilbane.

Across the middle will be Liam Lawrence, Keith Andrews, Paul Green and Damien Duff, whilst Robbie Keane and Kevin Doyle are in attack.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/0810/ireland_argentina.html

I'll be seriously pissed if those three start the qualifiers. Coleman, Ward and McCarthy in please. C'mon Trap, it can be seen from bloody space.

Stevecw

sugarman wrote: »

TBH, going by his selections & if everyone is fit. I can see him field the exact same team for the qualifiers as the last set.

Don't be surprised if he does. Why McShane is even in the squad never mind on the team is beyond me. Surely Foley who did well for Wolves last year deserves a game.
As for Kilbane, yeah he has been great for us and as loyal as anyone..but sadly time catches up on us all and he should now be at best back up. Cunningham played great v Algeria, surely he should start tomorrow night to see if he is up to the task of being slotted in in Armenia.

Looking at this team selection, seems as if Trap still is considering McShane and Kilbane as full back options for qualifiers. If that is the case we can forget about being at Euro 2012.

tonycascarino

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

I'll be seriously pissed if those three start the qualifiers. Coleman, Ward and McCarthy in please. C'mon Trap, it can be seen from bloody space.

I agree with that. Shane Duffy, Dave Meyler (when fit) & Marc Wilson should be there too. Andy Reid should be picked & Steven Reid and Stephen Ireland should be coaxed out of retirement. We could & should have a very decent squad but Trap continues to pick some very very mediocre players.

SuperInfinity

I think Italy and France's performances at the world cup do a lot to confirm how bad Ireland are under Trap. Previously people could have pointed to the results against those teams and say we are getting the results and other people didn't understand the Trap way of playing or something. Now that theory has fallen apart.

Russia and Slovakia are probably the worst two teams we could possibly have gotten as a combination... if we had one world-beating team like Germany and some mediocre team we could overcome like we usually do it we would have a chance. For various reasons people are going to underestimate those teams and say we have a good chance when in reality we are unlikely to be in contention by the end of the group.

SuperInfinity

Stevecw wrote: »

Don't be surprised if he does. Why McShane is even in the squad never mind on the team is beyond me. Surely Foley who did well for Wolves last year deserves a game.
As for Kilbane, yeah he has been great for us and as loyal as anyone..but sadly time catches up on us all and he should now be at best back up. Cunningham played great v Algeria, surely he should start tomorrow night to see if he is up to the task of being slotted in in Armenia.

Looking at this team selection, seems as if Trap still is considering McShane and Kilbane as full back options for qualifiers. If that is the case we can forget about being at Euro 2012.

I agree. I would have played Kilbane all the time up to now and thought he deserved it, but now is the time for him to go as backup. I'm afraid it might be a sad end for Kilbane during this campaign, his pace will decline and then he won't have the technical skill to replace it.

flahavaj

tonycascarino wrote: »

I agree with that. Shane Duffy, Dave Meyler (when fit) & Marc Wilson should be there too. Andy Reid should be picked & Steven Reid and Stephen Ireland should be coaxed out of retirement. We could & should have a very decent squad but Trap continues to pick some very very mediocre players.

You were mediocre enough in your day yourself, Tony.:pac:

Kiwi_knock

The Ireland u 21s won 5-0 tonight. Stokes, Mc Carthy and Coleman all scored. All three should have been in the senior squad.

SuperInfinity

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

The Ireland u 21s won 5-0 tonight. Stokes, Mc Carthy and Coleman all scored. All three should have been in the senior squad.

We're still last in the group, lol.

tonycascarino

SuperInfinity wrote: »

We're still last in the group, lol.

Thanks to Don Givens :mad:

tolosenc

SuperInfinity wrote: »

I think Italy and France's performances at the world cup do a lot to confirm how bad Ireland are under Trap. Previously people could have pointed to the results against those teams and say we are getting the results and other people didn't understand the Trap way of playing or something. Now that theory has fallen apart.

Russia and Slovakia are probably the worst two teams we could possibly have gotten as a combination... if we had one world-beating team like Germany and some mediocre team we could overcome like we usually do it we would have a chance. For various reasons people are going to underestimate those teams and say we have a good chance when in reality we are unlikely to be in contention by the end of the group.

Russia play Bulgaria tomorrow. Could be interesting to gauge for us.

Agreed though. We should have beaten Italy both games. We should have gone through against France, Henry aside (the second leg should have been at least 4-0 after 90 mins). Though, in fairness, France were playing better then than at the WC, where they collapsed.

My team for the qualifiers:

Given

Cunningham
Dunne
St. Ledger
O'Shea

Lawrence
Gibson
Hunt - free role (get on the ball and run at people)/behind the front 2 (CAM in Football Manager parlance)
Duff

Keane
Sheridan

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Well the Hunt free role suggestion is a non-starter for definite anyway.

I'm curious.....why Sheridan instead of Doyle mate? I know he did well at St Johnstone, but that's a big step down from a decent Premier League striker. He might be an immobile plank at a decent level!

Aidric

Ush1 wrote: »

Calling them clowns might be abit much however both Kilbane and McShane are clearly now not up to the task of international football and we should be looking at alternatives.

Why does Trappatoni keep selecting them? I'm stumped.

flahavaj

tolosenc wrote: »

Russia play Bulgaria tomorrow. Could be interesting to gauge for us.

Agreed though. We should have beaten Italy both games. We should have gone through against France, Henry aside (the second leg should have been at least 4-0 after 90 mins). Though, in fairness, France were playing better then than at the WC, where they collapsed.

My team for the qualifiers:

Given

Cunningham
Dunne
St. Ledger
O'Shea

Lawrence
Gibson
Hunt - free role (get on the ball and run at people)/behind the front 2 (CAM in Football Manager parlance)
Duff

Keane
Sheridan

Teams would waltz through that central midfield, not to mention the guy at left back who has never played a first team game at senior level and your omission of Doyle, proably Ireland's most consistent player in the last qualifying campaignnand a superb centre forward.

Crazy team - your brief mention of Football Manager is telling.

x in the city

will diego be at the game at all i wonder...:rolleyes:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-Tkf9lVlvw&feature=related

if i thought i could get my 86 argentina top signed i would be one happy camper

and as long as kilbane and mcshane are in the squad Ireland will win diddly squat., waste of 2 (useful) players

noodler

Aidric wrote: »

Why does Trappatoni keep selecting them? I'm stumped.

Kilbane is obvious.

Clueless about McBlame.

How do successive managers keeping selecting him?

noodler

SuperInfinity wrote: »

I think Italy and France's performances at the world cup do a lot to confirm how bad Ireland are under Trap.

No.

That is a silly thing to say.

Het-Field

Most of Kilbane's era are long since retired. The vast majority of those who debuted in 1996/1997 have succumed to injury, old age, retirement, de-selection etc. Not old Kevin ! The fact that he was not making the Hull City defence last term should make it abundantly clear that Kilbane is not a premiership player.

x in the city

noodler wrote: »

Kilbane is obvious.

Clueless about McBlame.

How do successive managers keeping selecting him?

he must suck c0ck, that's all i can think of...!

FreeOSCAR

tolosenc wrote: »

Russia play Bulgaria tomorrow. Could be interesting to gauge for us.

Agreed though. We should have beaten Italy both games. We should have gone through against France, Henry aside (the second leg should have been at least 4-0 after 90 mins). Though, in fairness, France were playing better then than at the WC, where they collapsed.

My team for the qualifiers:

Given

Coleman
Dunne
St. Ledger
O'Shea

Mcgeady
Gibson
Whelan
Duff

Keane
Doyle

FYP

fullstop

tolosenc wrote: »

Russia play Bulgaria tomorrow. Could be interesting to gauge for us.

Agreed though. We should have beaten Italy both games. We should have gone through against France, Henry aside (the second leg should have been at least 4-0 after 90 mins). Though, in fairness, France were playing better then than at the WC, where they collapsed.

My team for the qualifiers:

Given

Cunningham
Dunne
St. Ledger
O'Shea

Lawrence
Gibson
Hunt - free role (get on the ball and run at people)/behind the front 2 (CAM in Football Manager parlance)
Duff

Keane
Sheridan

Just LOL. Hunt in a free role with only one central midfielder in the team....and Sheridan :eek:

Jordonvito

tolosenc wrote: »

Russia play Bulgaria tomorrow. Could be interesting to gauge for us.

Agreed though. We should have beaten Italy both games. We should have gone through against France, Henry aside (the second leg should have been at least 4-0 after 90 mins). Though, in fairness, France were playing better then than at the WC, where they collapsed.

My team for the qualifiers:

Given

Cunningham
Dunne
St. Ledger
O'Shea

Lawrence
Gibson
Hunt - free role (get on the ball and run at people)/behind the front 2 (CAM in Football Manager parlance)
Duff

Keane
Sheridan

I don't know what sort of shape that midfield of yours is taking! would look something like this if you were to play them all in their best positions!




---Lawrence

---

Duff-Hunt

---

Gibson

---

A right winger, 2 left wingers and an attacking midfielder

And no Doyle, no Kevin Doyle?!


Personally I wouldnt stray far from the team we had for the qualafiers. My bench is a tad unrealistic

---

Given

---

JOS

---

Dunne

---

St Legend

---

Cunningham

---

-McCarthy--Whelan

---

--Lawrence

---

Duff

---

---

Keane

---

Doyle

---

Dream Bench:
Westwood
Coleman
Kilbane
Wilson
Duffy
Ireland
Reid
Gibson
Fahey
Andrews
Hunt
Sheridan
Stokes
Folan

newballsplease

Im glad McShane and Kilbane are in there.

1 reason: I hope to feck Argentina wingers absolutley destroy the pair of them.... it will/may finally show Trap that they are not up to it. end of.

Id perfer to get destroyed in a friendly then the qualifiers...which WILL happen if them 2 are continued to be picked.

JP Liz V1

Messi will tear Ireland apart

digme

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Messi will tear Ireland apart

no he wont

SK1979

digme wrote: »

no he wont

Agree with this. No way will we lose this game badly. Worst result I can see is us losing by one.

Thats a nice team you picked Jordanito. I personally would have Coleman at RB and JOS at LB. You left McGeady out completely too, I'd probably have him on the right instead of Lawrence but apart from that, its a nice (potentially!) squad.

Manc-Red

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Messi will tear Ireland apart

Got to agree, Messi will run a mock against us.....

But, he'd do that against any side really, wouldn't he lol:D

Kingp35

Trap won't be there tonight. Just been confirmed on Newstalk.

Jordonvito

SK1979 wrote: »

Agree with this. No way will we lose this game badly. Worst result I can see is us losing by one.

Thats a nice team you picked Jordanito. I personally would have Coleman at RB and JOS at LB. You left McGeady out completely too, I'd probably have him on the right instead of Lawrence but apart from that, its a nice (potentially!) squad.

Apologies, at first I had McGeady/Lawrence, and just forgot to put McGeady on the bench.

tolosenc

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Well the Hunt free role suggestion is a non-starter for definite anyway.

I'm curious.....why Sheridan instead of Doyle mate? I know he did well at St Johnstone, but that's a big step down from a decent Premier League striker. He might be an immobile plank at a decent level!

Realised I forgot McGeady. Duff to the Hunt role I described, MecGeady into Duff's place, maybe. Hunt just needs to play more.

Doyle doesn't score enough goals. He's a striker, that's his job. I know we don't have a history of players scoring a lot of goals for us, but that's no reason to let the situation stagnate. We need to try someone else. I like the look of Sheridan, and we have a big man option, what with Keane being about 5 foot 7. I'd also like to see Shane Long given another go. Or Folan (moreso for his mentality than anything else: he doesn't let a team play it around the back -when most of the Irish team just backs off, he's in there scrapping).

I'm trying to mix youth and experience, creativity and consistency.

Oh, and flahavaj, I don't play FM. Picked up that terminology right here!

noodler

tolosenc wrote: »

Doyle doesn't score enough goals. He's a striker, that's his job. I know we don't have a history of players scoring a lot of goals for us, but that's no reason to let the situation stagnate. We need to try someone else. I like the look of Sheridan, and we have a big man option, what with Keane being about 5 foot 7.

You are incredibly, incredibly wrong.

Any suggestion that Doyle, one of the most consistent performers for the side, should be dropped is absolutely crazy.

This is why football shouldn't always be based on goal statistics.

Jordonvito

tolosenc wrote: »

Realised I forgot McGeady. Duff to the Hunt role I described, MecGeady into Duff's place, maybe. Hunt just needs to play more.

Doyle doesn't score enough goals. He's a striker, that's his job. I know we don't have a history of players scoring a lot of goals for us, but that's no reason to let the situation stagnate. We need to try someone else. I like the look of Sheridan, and we have a big man option, what with Keane being about 5 foot 7. I'd also like to see Shane Long given another go. Or Folan (moreso for his mentality than anything else: he doesn't let a team play it around the back -when most of the Irish team just backs off, he's in there scrapping).

I'm trying to mix youth and experience, creativity and consistency.

Oh, and flahavaj, I don't play FM. Picked up that terminology right here!

Do you not think we need some cover in the midfield though? I'm all for attacking football, but some balance and defensive cover in mid field is essential. And with 2 strikers and essentially 4 attack minded midfielders the team doesn't look too balanced.

Bit harsh on Doyle there as well, he's our second most proven and experienced goal scorer whatever way you look at it, his first season in the premiership proved that he can score goals, maybe he's not a 25 goals a season man but I definitley think if he got a good strike partner and more chance he would bag 15-20 goals a season, and he brings so much more to the game than goals, holding up, link up play etc;. Not to mention the fact him and Keane seem to have an excellent partnership together.

noodler

Also, it isn't as if Doyle misses a million chances per game.

We simply aren't that creative. There is no other Irish striker, bar Keane, I would feel as confident with when it came to putting away a chance.

Splainc

noodler wrote: »

Also, it isn't as if Doyle misses a million chances per game.

We simply aren't that creative. There is no other Irish striker, bar Keane, I would feel as confident with when it came to putting away a chance.

Especially with his head. Folan deserves more game time if he is fit. Did a great job against Italy in the away leg. Ran his socks off and the Italians simply could not cope with his physicality. We need options. Doyle deserves his starting place but, like most players, he has his fair share of stinkers so we need effective back-up.

noodler

Splainc wrote: »

Especially with his head. Folan deserves more game time if he is fit. Did a great job against Italy in the away leg. Ran his socks off and the Italians simply could not cope with his physicality. We need options. Doyle deserves his starting place but, like most players, he has his fair share of stinkers so we need effective back-up.

I honestly don't know if Doyle has ever had a stinker for Ireland such is his work rate.

A stinker for a striker is usually when he can't get into the game or misses loads of chances.

Doyle never really goes missing - even if we are being battered and are without the prospect of creating a real chance in a game, you know he will still be tracking back, winning headers, running the ball into the channels.

Folan is a brute battering ram. That fine but, as you say, he is never going to be anything other than a Niall Quinn in his twlight years for us (bringing on a big man late on when in need of a goal).

Splainc

noodler wrote: »

I honestly don't know if Doyle has ever had a stinker for Ireland such is his work rate.

A stinker for a striker is usually when he can't get into the game or misses loads of chances.

Doyle never really goes missing - even if we are being battered and are without the prospect of creating a real chance in a game, you know he will still be tracking back, winning headers, running the ball into the channels.

Folan is a brute battering ram. That fine but, as you say, he is never going to be anything other than a Niall Quinn in his twlight years for us (bringing on a big man late on when in need of a goal).

Stinker is a bit harsh i suppose but there have been many games where Doyle has been ineffective as regards creating/scoring opportunities. Brilliant work rate and does not go missing but very similar to Dirk Kuyt. Sometimes that is not enough so you need another option on the bench or to start every now and then to freshen it up. Also the point of him not missing many can be countered with he does not have that goalscoring knack of finding himself in positions to score. Robbie Keane, as frustrating as he can be, has this.

noodler

Splainc wrote: »

. Also the point of him not missing many can be countered with he does not have that goalscoring knack of finding himself in positions to score. Robbie Keane, as frustrating as he can be, has this.

There is no doubt Keane has that knack.

However, Doyle's scoring record at club level would give you the impression he has that knack himself.

Our goals are always going to be disproportionately placed on Keane's shoulders whilst he is part of the setup.

What's Doyle's international goals record like anyway? I know it isn't great but just for the sake of discussion.

Splainc

noodler wrote: »

There is no doubt Keane has that knack.

However, Doyle's scoring record at club level would give you the impression he has that knack himself.

Our goals are always going to be disproportionately placed on Keane's shoulders whilst he is part of the setup.

What's Doyle's international goals record like anyway? I know it isn't great but just for the sake of discussion.

Doyle does not have a great club goalscoring record

Wiki stats

2003–2005 Cork City 76 (25) 2005–2009 Reading 154 (55) 2009– Wolverhampton Wanderers 34 (9)
8 in 35 for Ireland. Not many of these in competitive games as far as i am aware. (EDIT scratch this. Most were in competitive games)

Goal every 3 at club level but not all of this is at premiership level. Had very poor goalscoring return in his second prem season but was played on the right alot for a poor Reading team.

PCros

Tardelli in charge for tonights game.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/trapattoni-to-miss-argentina-game-2292684.html