Animal Photography

daycent

Mountainsandh

Daycent, I luuuurrrvv that sheep shearing pic, and Pivot Al, I wish I had an ***uncluttered*** plain white wall, I would buy that last pic, and just stare at the dreamy background for the rest of my life. (OK, maybe I'm getting carried away just a bit).

daycent

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Daycent, I luuuurrrvv that sheep shearing pic, and Pivot Al, I wish I had an ***uncluttered*** plain white wall, I would buy that last pic, and just stare at the dreamy background for the rest of my life. (OK, maybe I'm getting carried away just a bit).

Thanks. I have a good few others that I must get around to processing. Here's another one i like:

AnimalRights

daycent wrote: »

Thanks. I have a good few others that I must get around to processing. Here's another one i like:

I don't get what you like about this pic?
Marked for death like?

Mountainsandh

AnimalRights, afaik the farmers around me do not mark their sheep for death, they mark them so they can roam the hills and be recognized. The ones that have just been sheared above my place look rather happy and livelier in the current heat than they would have been with the wool on.
edit : and to explain why I like the pic : I am surrounded by farmers who are passionate about their jobs, and care well for their cattle or sheep. Caring for these animals, regardless of the planned outcome, is a very important job to them, and they do it well. I look at this pic as I would look at a pic of a shoe maker making shoes.

AnimalRights

Mountainsandh wrote: »

AnimalRights, afaik the farmers around me do not mark their sheep for death, they mark them so they can roam the hills and be recognized. The ones that have just been sheared above my place look rather happy and livelier in the current heat than they would have been with the wool on.

They mark them so they are not stolen and killed by a different farmer, let's be honest here, they don't mark them to bring them for walkies twice a day.
I'd rather keep my hair and live then be shaved and butchered a few days later.

kelly1

AnimalRights will have a "canary" when he sees that one!! :eek:

Thecageyone

Horrific ... but makes for a great image. Which is what this place is about.

AnimalRights

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I look at this pic as I would look at a pic of a shoe maker making shoes.

But shoemakers are basically unemployed these days, 99% of shoes come from the slave market labour countries ala China and India.

pullandbang

AnimalRights wrote: »

That is just wrong wrong wrong.

The price we pay so veggies can eat cheap brown bread

AnimalRights

Thecageyone wrote: »

Horrific ... but makes for a great image. Which is what this place is about.

Is it?
mmm thats news to me, I see younger kids looking at that pic and wanting to copy it....I live in flats and we already have them trying to capture Pigeons.

So Cagey what else is this place all about? How about pics of young girls?
I mean it;s all in the name of Art is it not?
wait a minute you have a daughter so maybe it's not such a good idea after all.....in fact I agree with you on that issue.

pullandbang

AnimalRights wrote: »

...I live in flats and we already have them trying to capture Pigeons.

I grew up in flats in inner city Dublin and we ALWAYS tried to capture pigeons. Nothing new.

AnimalRights

pullandbang wrote: »

The price we pay so veggies can eat cheap brown bread

we are not amused....

AnimalRights

pullandbang wrote: »

I grew up in flats in inner city Dublin and we ALWAYS tried to capture pigeons. Nothing new.

So that makes it right?

Jim

Good image or not, it is still pretty horrific. If it was a pic of a person strung up would it be ok? If yes then fair enough.

As to not add to much to the derailment, here's a pic.

Mountainsandh

AnimalRights this discussion would really be best suited to another spot on boards . They do not just live "a few days". You more than likely see numbers and statistics, and I see around me farmers who in fact care about the animals they have in charge. Indeed they visit them several times daily, spend time observing them, not with dollar signs in their eyes, with the pride, respect, and attention a good farmer has for their well tended animals. There's a lot more to farming than sending cattle or sheep off to be slaughtered.
Sorry mods, end of off topic discussion for me, sorry Animalrights, don't mean to be rude .

AnimalRights

Mountainsandh wrote: »

AnimalRights this discussion would really be best suited to another spot on boards . They do not just live "a few days". You more than likely see numbers and statistics, and I see around me farmers who in fact care about the animals they have in charge. Indeed they visit them several times daily, spend time observing them, not with dollar signs in their eyes, with the pride, respect, and attention a good farmer has for their well tended animals. There's a lot more to farming than sending cattle or sheep off to be slaughtered.
Sorry mods, end of off topic discussion for me, sorry Animalrights, don't mean to be rude .

You would be the friendly face as a Farmers spokeswoman, you almost have me sold...almost.

Mountainsandh

Hmmm now there's an idea, might just go into politics ? I don't think so. Got a bed to go to, good night everyone .
Agree btw, birdy pic is wrong wrong wrong.

daycent

AnimalRights wrote: »

I don't get what you like about this pic?
Marked for death like?

They're just shearing them Doing them a favour really, it's quite warm round these parts

daycent

pullandbang wrote: »

Crucifixion.....

What's that all about anyway?

The Davestator

The list time I looked, this was the photography forum, not the Moral watchdog forum, animal rights forum, vegetarian forum etc etc.

I think the photos are great, and if people dont appreciate the 'subject' of the photo, they should keep their opinions to themselves unless they have some C&C of the actual composition etc.

stick-dan

Its evident that a lot of people are confused about what they are seeing in the original photographs. Sheep Shearing and branding is not by any means a signal of death for a sheep in fact if it was not done it would be quite the opposite. Around the summer months of each year, sheep are shore to stop them killing themselves. As wool begins to accumulate on a ewe her carried weight as expected increases. These places a burden on the ewe or ram which can sometimes cause them to roll onto their backs which they can not get themselves up from and thus die. If farmers did not shear sheep then they would lose all their stock to this phenomenon.

Shearing is not cruelty being imposed on sheep it is actually extremely helpful to them, (you don't wear a boiling fleece in warm weather do you?)

Branding also is not a death mark or a form of cruelty. It is simply for identifying your herds in rural areas where your stock is grazing. It is actually a requirement of owning a herd now that you brand them to uniquely identify them. Branding with smaller stock sprays and markers are also used to help identify which ewe or ram you have branded or dosed when it comes to tending to your stock. (It would be very hard to remember all the sheep you've tended too in a flock of hundreds if you didn't mark the ones you tended to already.They all tend to look alike. )

People need to chill out, if it was a photograph of a carcass hanging from a hook in a meat factory then by all means its open to debate (to an extent, based on people's lifestyles.)

I think personally the original photograph of the shearing would be adored by the man shearing as it would see it as the immortilisation of his lifes work. If someone was to photograph me whilst I was working away at something I had a pure passion for I would be delighted and deeply impressed that someone thought that what I do was worth capturing and displaying. Great photographs to the OP. I really like them. Let's not be starting debates for the sake or starting them lads.

jpb1974

Agree entirely with stick-dan.

Can't understand what the fuss is about. Sheep sheering isn't harmful at all... it's no different than sending your dog for a trim. Branding is purely for identification.

And for all we know this guy could be a sheep breeder (no jokes please) - you wouldn't believe how much these guys can care more about the welfare of their animals.

What's next... a debate about the issues associated with letting your dog too close to cider bottles?

Mountainsandh

The Devastator, I think it's great that people react to the subject of a photograph, rather than just stick to the technical aspects, and that a choice of subject should spark a discussion.
IMO choice of subject is as important as choice of exposure or composition for the scene. Nobody blinks when someone offering C&C mentions that they're sick of looking at flower shots, and that they find them boring. In this case Daycent unwittingly (correct me if I'm wrong ) picked a subject that strongly appeals to some, and is a shocker to another.
It's actually very interesting to note that AnimalRights' and my reaction to the pic were miles apart, because of our respective environments and moral values.

The discussion was in the wrong spot though, since the Random Photothread is not about that at all as Mod pointed out.

pullandbang

daycent wrote: »

What's that all about anyway?

Local field of barley and the farmer shoots crows and pigeons, hangs them on sticks around the field to act as scarecrows. All about protecting his crops.

Mountainsandh

pullandbang wrote: »

Local field of barley and the farmer shoots crows and pigeons, hangs them on sticks around the field to act as scarecrows. All about protecting his crops.

I wonder is that effective, are they clever enough to cop on "this will happen to me if I come back" ? wouldn't your usual traditional scarecrow have the same effect ?

This would make for a very spooky environment for windy/stormy evening photographs .

thefly

Animalrights, go hug a tree ffs!!!! Thats life if you don't like it don't look at the thread!!!! The sheep is been sheered not killed. We are in the summer and it is set to hit 25 degrees today. Do you think it's fair for a sheep to walk around in that heat with the equivalent of 5 woolly jumpers on?????

Anyway here is a pic of a rabbit been killed that I took the other night. These things happen in life animalrights but we as photographers merely document what is already happening ala Kevin Carter. We are photographers not members of peta or conservationists

thefly

AnimalRights wrote: »

Is it?
mmm thats news to me, I see younger kids looking at that pic and wanting to copy it....I live in flats and we already have them trying to capture Pigeons.

So Cagey what else is this place all about? How about pics of young girls?
I mean it;s all in the name of Art is it not?
wait a minute you have a daughter so maybe it's not such a good idea after all.....in fact I agree with you on that issue.

Have you ever heard of Sallyman???

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/76038/sally_manns_immediate_family_the_unflinching.html

http://www.google.ie/images?q=sally+mann+immediate+family&um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=nd3&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&tbs=isch:1&ei=pvhPTKuRBtKK4QavksHmCQ&sa=N&start=20&ndsp=20

magicbastarder

well, colour me confused.

thefly

magicbastarder wrote: »

well, colour me confused.

About what?

magicbastarder

there are posts being referenced here which don't appear in the thread, and some which appear in other threads.

thefly

magicbastarder wrote: »

there are posts being referenced here which don't appear in the thread, and some which appear in other threads.

Actually I noticed that alright. I just assumed mods had taken down some offensive shots. Where's the pic that several have said is "wrong wrong wrong"

pullandbang

thefly wrote: »

Actually I noticed that alright. I just assumed mods had taken down some offensive shots. Where's the pic that several have said is "wrong wrong wrong"

There you go......

thefly

Cheers pullandbang

I can see why that shot offends people but once again we are photographers documenting what we see. We are not the perpetrators here. Plus I dont see any blood so what's to say the bird didn't die of natural causes?


Mad pic, I never new this practice existed, thanks for sharing

pullandbang

thefly wrote: »

I can see why that shot offends people

There's the difference between you and me. I don't see it as offensive at all. It's just a dead pigeon, something you see every day on the roads. In this case the dead bird is put to good use - crop protection, much better than having bangers constantly going off 24/7. Me, personally, I think it's a waste of a good pigeon. I'd rather see him sizzling in my frying pan with a few onions and mushrooms.

thefly

pullandbang wrote: »

There's the difference between you and me. I don't see it as offensive at all. It's just a dead pigeon, something you see every day on the roads. In this case the dead bird is put to good use - crop protection, much better than having bangers constantly going off 24/7. Me, personally, I think it's a waste of a good pigeon. I'd rather see him sizzling in my frying pan with a few onions and mushrooms.

I dont find it offensive one bit and I agree with your entire post (especially the cooking bit:cool:) But I can see why others find it offensive as they just see a dead bird on a stick

jpb1974

Here's our dog when he was a puppy, press the 'Thank You' button if you like this

magicbastarder

you'd just take it as a come-on.

jpb1974

Gizza kiss :P

Thecageyone

AnimalRights wrote: »

So Cagey what else is this place all about? How about pics of young girls?
I mean it;s all in the name of Art is it not?
wait a minute you have a daughter so maybe it's not such a good idea after all.....in fact I agree with you on that issue.

There are plenty of pictures of young girls on here, loads of us have kids and do portraits of them ... If you're comparing a picture of a dead bird to pictures of children, I'd be worried about you mate ...

This thread has gone haywire anyhow, it now looks like my comment was about the sheep - it wasn't. It was on P&B's bird shot.

AR, as photographers we are mostly on the fence. As someone said, you're merely documenting what happens, why hide from it? That won't make it go away. And if you were suggesting pictures of little girls, dead, after being killed in some type of slaying ... then yes, if it's news and happening, I'd look at them. Closing your eyes to it doesn't make it not exist.

thefly

Thecageyone wrote: »

There are plenty of pictures of young girls on here, loads of us have kids and do portraits of them ... If you're comparing a picture of a dead bird to pictures of children, I'd be worried about you mate ...

This thread has gone haywire anyhow, it now looks like my comment was about the sheep - it wasn't. It was on P&B's bird shot.

AR, as photographers we are mostly on the fence. As someone said, you're merely documenting what happens, why hide from it? That won't make it go away. And if you were suggesting pictures of little girls, dead, after being killed in some type of slaying ... then yes, if it's news and happening, I'd look at them. Closing your eyes to it doesn't make it not exist.

Great post. Sums up exactly what I was trying to say

smelltheglove

I think these photos are like a breath of fresh air, the sheep and the bird.

Photography is an art form but it is also a way of documenting whats going on in the world.

pullandbang

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I wonder is that effective, are they clever enough to cop on "this will happen to me if I come back" ? wouldn't your usual traditional scarecrow have the same effect ?

This would make for a very spooky environment for windy/stormy evening photographs .

No idea how effective it is but I see it all the time so it must have some effect.

It was quite windy there yesterday evening and I shot a whole series of pics so must get around to processing them.

Promac

I think it's a great shot. It's hardly promoting people to go out and kill pigeons.

I'm sure everyone's seen this pic before - is it as bad as the bird pic? Worse? Better?

Thecageyone

F you I won't do what you tell me! Dun dun dun!!

Aye, and that was an album cover!

sprinkles

wow, this got out of hand real fast

Just my 2c's,

I think the shearing argument is now mute. It's now obvious it's done in the best interest of the sheep.

I have to agree with Animalrights about the picture of the dead bird. On first viewing I actually thought it was put up to insight and argument (obviously not the case) but my immediate reaction - and others too - was "wait til AR sees this". It did look like someone, not necessarily Pullandbang, killed the bird and tied it to a stick for fun rather than for any discernible reason. I think this whole thing may have been avoided if an explanation was included with the original post of the bird.

As for pictures of burning people, if it seemed like the person was set alight for the sake of the picture then yes, it would be in bad taste to say the least. The story behind the picture needs to be told to avoid any ambiguity about the intent of the photographer.

EDIT: and I've finally come to the realisation that Cagey will argue about anything

Thecageyone

Um, I wasn't arguing ... just responding to something that was put directly to me if you care to look back. Wouldn't want my rep damaged by such false accusations!

smelltheglove

Promac wrote: »

I'm sure everyone's seen this pic before - is it as bad as the bird pic? Worse? Better?

Never seen that picture before, Im off to go read about it.

Cagey stop winding people up:p

I actually like hte picture of the bird, I know AR will have a vendetta against me for that but I do, I find it interesting. I never knew farmers would use deadbirds to scare other birds away so I've learnt something today.

Thecageyone

I never! just joining in the discussion!

That image is used on the cover of Rage against the machine's self titled album in 1992 -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rage_Against_the_Machine_(album)

smelltheglove

I dont like it as an album cover. I dont think it is really something that can be adapted to a musical album, this man took his life for much greater reasons than gracing the cover of an album in his moment of death.

For anyone like me who did not see the picture before here is the story behind it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%ADch_Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_%C4%90%E1%BB%A9c

101001

Promac wrote: »

I think it's a great shot. It's hardly promoting people to go out and kill pigeons.

I'm sure everyone's seen this pic before - is it as bad as the bird pic? Worse? Better?

IMO probably one of the most beautiful images ever taken... the bird pic is not even in the same universe as this. but do you think its 'good'/'like it'