Road sign on motorway for Claregalway/Baile Chláir

dinneenp

Hi,
The sign on the motorway from Dublin when approaching Galway for Claregalway just says Baile Chláir without any English spelling.
Any reason for this?
Thanks,
Pa.

toadfly

I'm not sure but its the same in Mayo all the signs for Belmullet say "Béal an Mhuirthead" thought it was something to do with being an Irish speaking area but maybe not?

xflyer

It's all part of the silly law that abolished Dingle and Spiddal. Although I notice the people of Dingle weren't having it and rewrote the name on ever road sign in Kerry.

I came across this article from 2004 http://www.independent.ie/national-news/families-living-in-gaeltacht-area-are-unable-to-speak-irish-138997.html

I'd say at this stage most of the speak Polish.

topper75

Sea. Is chuid den Ghaeltacht é. Sin an fáth.

sgthighway

Firstly Claregalway is not in the City.

Claregalway aka Baile Chláir na Gailimhe is in the Gaeltacht.
Eamon O'Cuiv changed some legislation a few years ago that ment all Villages/Towns in the Gaeltacht should be named in Irish on all road signs and official governement documentation.

Some villages and towns affected by this did not like it but the reality is they various groups in these area get grants that non-Gaeltacht areas do not get.
I know in the GAA these areas get grants for coaching that other areas do not. Its one of the reasons that the Football Training Facility is built in Loughgeorge.

Businesses in Baile Chláir na Gailimhe should adapt to the irish version as it would be in their best interest. However I think its still down as Claregalway on roadmaps and the likes of aaroadwatch.ie

sgthighway

sgthighway wrote: »

Baile Chláir aka Claregalway is in the Gaeltacht.

Fixed your post.

Admittedly I call it Claregalway rather than Baile Chláir

snubbleste

Technically it's called Baile Chláir na Gaillimhe

Co Galway forum is over there *points*

http://www.logainm.ie/Viewer.aspx?text=baile+chl%C3%A1ir
It's Baile Chláir - Baile Chláir na Gaillimhe is a bad translation from Irish into English and then back into Irish again.

gaeilgegrinds1

Ooh, I love this debate! Massive can of worms being open. Breac-Gaeltacht, Tír Oiléan is also one for any of ye unaware! And that is certainly in the city!

sgthighway

Deleted User wrote: »

Fixed your post.

Admittedly I call it Claregalway rather than Baile Chláir

Does that not translate to Clare Town?

The same as Áth Claith v Baile Áth Cliath

I don't know - its all confusing to me

gaeilgegrinds1

Why do people always seem to assume names are changed from English to Irish? Other way around in that the Irish names were there first.

Brian Friel and Translations springs to mind.

nerophis

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.logainm.ie/Viewer.aspx?text=baile+chl%C3%A1ir
It's Baile Chláir - Baile Chláir na Gaillimhe is a bad translation from Irish into English and then back into Irish again.

Why call it Baile Chláir if nobody who is actually looking to go to Claregalway (and obviously doesn't already know where it is) will get any benefit from the signpost? It's a bit like the paisti ag trasnu signs in Connemara. If you don't understand the sign you more than likely don't know to watch for children crossing! Anyone have any statistics on the numbers of people who are native Irish speakers in Claregalway? Having grown up there I don't think I could name one living person who uses Irish as their first language- that doesn't mean they're not there of course but they're certainly a rarity. Why continue with this tokenistic gaeltacht tag if it only functions to dillute any support that would go to the "actual" gaeltacht?

gaeilgegrinds1

If you grew up there I am surprised you are asking why? Money...
Grants galore!

sgthighway

gaeilgegrinds1 wrote: »

If you grew up there I am surprised you are asking why? Money...
Grants galore!

+1

Baile Chláir = village on the plain
(the north Galway plain also giving it's name to the river and a barony)

It was translated into English as Claregalway to distinguish it from the other villages on the plain (Belclare, Claretuam maybe others)

At some point someone translated it back into Irish starting from the English version as Baile Chláir na Gaillimhe.

nerophis

sgthighway wrote: »

Does that not translate to Clare Town?

The same as Áth Claith v Baile Áth Cliath

I don't know - its all confusing to me

The origin of the name of the village has a couple of potential sources AFAIR 1. flat 2. refering to boards that crossed the river 3. evil because people were robbed as they crossed the river That's what I learned in primary school so if its way off then don't shoot.

There are some who speak Irish and others who can speak it.

The grants are good - my granny got double glazing years ago from it.

There are probably more Polish speakers these days though. I wonder if the Polish government would build a bypass if we put up a few signs in Polish...

dinneenp

Deleted User wrote: »

The grants are good - my granny got double glazing years ago from it.

Grant for double glazing to keep out the English voices?

Robbo

Personally, I find the Stalinist airbrushing of placenames from extant signs in the city to be more distasteful but it is the will of Cuiv, Eamon O...

galwayrush

I live a few miles from there, and feck all people in that area can speak any Irish at all.:rolleyes:

Fizzical

Deleted User wrote: »

Baile Chláir = village on the plain
(the north Galway plain also giving it's name to the river and a barony)

It was translated into English as Claregalway to distinguish it from the other villages on the plain (Belclare, Claretuam maybe others)

At some point someone translated it back into Irish starting from the English version as Baile Chláir na Gaillimhe.

That's very interesting, thanks. I never knew that. Any info about the correct Irish name of Gort? I was brought up thinking it was Gort Inse Guaire, but signposts and the logainmneacha website says it's An Gort?

spender.j

Fizzical wrote: »

That's very interesting, thanks. I never knew that. Any info about the correct Irish name of Gort? I was brought up thinking it was Gort Inse Guaire, but signposts and the logainmneacha website says it's An Gort?

It was Gort Inse Guaire (the Field of King Guaire) for a long time, only recently were the signposts changed to An Gort, about the time that the hassle was going on with Dingle/An Dangean...

sealgaire

Robbo wrote: »

Personally, I find the Stalinist airbrushing of placenames from extant signs in the city to be more distasteful but it is the will of Cuiv, Eamon O...

What you mean?

?Cee?view

sealgaire wrote: »

What you mean?

An tUasal Ó Cuiv is known for his messing with names or all sorts.

If your name happened to be Eamon Ó Cuiv you'd expect that on a ballot paper, you'd appear well down the alphabetical list as Ó Cuiv starts with O. But, if you finagled things so that your name was listed as surname "Cuiv" and forename "Eamon Ó", then you'd be further up the ballot paper as your surname now starts with a C. This linguistic nonsense of course shows great respect for the Irish language and demonstrates an intellectual ability to think through all aspects of a position :rolleyes:

He brought the same intellectual rigour to his naming of Gaeltacht areas. Spiddal now has no road signs. A few weeks ago I met some tourists heading (or trying to) head to Spiddal where there were to stay and spend their euros. Except they couldn't find it because all the signs say (and only say) "An Spidéal". Now, I love the Irish language and I hate that these people, and many more, now have the impression that it's used in some way to confuse or exclude them. Utter nonsense.

As to the Irish names. It works the other way too when it comes to stupid naming.

Kingston Road has been named by the City Council as "Bóthar Baile and Rí"; literally "The Road of the King's Town". Except there's never been a Kings Town or any townland of anywhere near that name in this area even though the Irish name now implies that there is. Kingston Road was only relatively recently named after Kingston House, the residence of the Patrician Brothers, which itself was originally known as "Kingstown House"

Robbo

sealgaire wrote: »

What you mean?

The covering over the Anglicised (and let's not deny it, more commonly used) placenames in the belief that by ignoring convention, the Irish language will be more widely spoken.

What you're left with is an obvious void in the sign where the Anglicised name was and the supposedly "correct" placename italicised, indicating a lack of priority. It only serves to confuse those who aren't familiar with the area or the political shibboleths of promoting the minority language.

topper75

churchview wrote: »

A few weeks ago I met some tourists heading (or trying to) head to Spiddal where there were to stay and spend their euros. Except they couldn't find it because all the signs say (and only say) "An Spidéal".

I cannot credit this anecdote. I cannot credit any tourist having a difficulty discerning between An Spidéal and Spiddle. Tourists more often than not have a map in there posession. The area in question is no more than 100 sq km. Could they conceivably determine that there might be a place in the area called An Spidéal, whilst they struggle to locate a Spiddle? Tourists are aware of our Irish language and see this dual naming on 95% of signs. I'm sorry to have to challenge you on this hearsay churchview.

churchview wrote: »

Kingston Road has been named by the City Council as "Bóthar Baile and Rí"; literally "The Road of the King's Town". Except there's never been a Kings Town or any townland of anywhere near that name in this area even though the Irish name now implies that there is.

A fair point. Denigrates the integrity of the language doing that. Bóthar Kingston would be fine.

Robbo wrote: »

political shibboleths of promoting the minority language.

This sounds dreadfully bigoted. It is not an uncommon viewpoint though.

?Cee?view

topper75 wrote: »

I cannot credit this anecdote. I cannot credit any tourist having a difficulty discerning between An Spidéal and Spiddle. Tourists more often than not have a map in there posession. The area in question is no more than 100 sq km. Could they conceivably determine that there might be a place in the area called An Spidéal, whilst they struggle to locate a Spiddle? Tourists are aware of our Irish language and see this dual naming on 95% of signs. I'm sorry to have to challenge you on this hearsay churchview.

Well it's completely true. My wife and a friend who were in the car with me can testify:) Happened about 4 or 5 weeks ago. I was stopped at traffic lights and car next to me caught my attention and I rolled down the window to speak with them. Think about it. If you were in another country with an unfamiliar language, would you necessarily equate a word starting with "Spi" with "An S"?

topper75 wrote: »

A fair point. Denigrates the integrity of the language doing that. Bóthar Kingston would be fine.

Agreed, Bóthar Kingston would be fine. I tackled a guy in the logainmneachaí section of the Department of the Gaeltacht, Islands, Rural Affairs and whatever else you're having about it, and he told me that the City Council had chosen this name. He said that if they had been tasked with choosing it, they would have gone with Bóthar Kingston on the basis that it made no sense to translate a placename that was clearly originally in English.

Mrs OBumble

topper75 wrote: »

I cannot credit this anecdote. I cannot credit any tourist having a difficulty discerning between An Spidéal and Spiddle. Tourists more often than not have a map in there posession. The area in question is no more than 100 sq km. Could they conceivably determine that there might be a place in the area called An Spidéal, whilst they struggle to locate a Spiddle? Tourists are aware of our Irish language and see this dual naming on 95% of signs. I'm sorry to have to challenge you on this hearsay churchview.

You need to spend more time hanging out with tourists. Or perhaps spend some time in a country whose language uses letters are different from the ones you're used to.

"Excuse me, can you tell me how to get to Kway Street?"

forumfiend

churchview wrote: »

An tUasal Ó Cuiv is known for his messing with names or all sorts.

If your name happened to be Eamon Ó Cuiv you'd expect that on a ballot paper, you'd appear well down the alphabetical list as Ó Cuiv starts with O. But, if you finagled things so that your name was listed as surname "Cuiv" and forename "Eamon Ó", then you'd be further up the ballot paper as your surname now starts with a C. This linguistic nonsense of course shows great respect for the Irish language and demonstrates an intellectual ability to think through all aspects of a position :rolleyes:

Exactly. And what's with the "v" in Ó Cuiv anyway, I'm not an expert but I thought the letter V was not used in Irish? Should it not be Ó Caoimh?

sealgaire

Reason for that goes back to his Grandfather Briain Ó Cuív who was an Irish langauge professor and one of his plans was to streamline the irish language spelling, changing all 'bh' to 'v'

And the spelling of the family name has been passed down since.