Irish Government Conspiracy

Audiomad · 28-07-2010 2:08pm #1

Ok it has to be noted Ireland is one of the most corrupt countries in the world only because of the Irish Government robbing its people.

Here are a few examples :

Nama €56B of tax payers money used to save the banks, not to long ago the owner of Anglo Irish went bankrupt this means that the Irish Government now owns Anglo after they spent €22B of the €56B to save the bank.

But just released today : http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100728/tuk-anglo-irish-bank-to-take-over-store-e1cd776.html

Anglo buy's Arnotts store and fears over 1000 will lose their jobs because of it. Why is a bank that cant pay its own bills going around buy property? That €22B has just gone back into Government pockets while people are losing their homes.

Nama just make it known to people if you have worked and you took out a loan the money the bank charges you for paying back is yours!! €200,000 for every man women and child in this country would not add up anywhere near the €56B that has been taken from the people.

The Government also bought 15% of Bank of Ireland using tax payers money we own part of all the banks in this country. Why are we paying the banks for our own money?

____________________________________________________________

More.. The Irish Government buys up stakes in Irish companies 29% of Aer Lingus is owned by the Government it has done since its the company started. This means they get 29% of the profits each year where has all this money gone too? Aer Lingus was start on May 22, 1936.

Some of the companies the Irish Government owns stakes in : Guinness, RTE, Independent Media, AIB, Anglo, Bank of Ireland, Irish rail and so many more which would have a massive amount of revenue each year.

___________________________________________________________

More.. The Government is to cut €3B more this year that we know of the budget still has to come but a lot of money is being spent on projects around the country that shows the fact the money is being taken to fund these projects.

Examples : http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/dart_underground.asp The under ground dart system being paid buy the Government but why is the Government paying the fee's for a company that is able to pay its own way in expanding?

Some of this money for the budget this year going on our roads they say its to fix them but we pay the highest road tax of any country €100 for a 1.4 Focus, and it had been increasing over the years thats a lot of money that has not been spent on fixing roads but for projects like this : http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0727/limerick.html all for a 20min saving of time to travel around the City of Limerick but this is not the only project of its kind. All the motor ways in the country are being upgraded and this money is being taken from a €39B invested that is supposed to create jobs "Only for the time it takes to make these upgrades after that all the jobs are gone"

___________________________________________________________

Our Government is going around paying for companies to expand on stupid little expansions that do not expand into other markets "Other Countries" only in so called infrastructure which brings in no money whats so ever.

___________________________________________________________

The RTE is partially owned buy the Government this means they will not say anything to the Government to make them angry to put it in a nice way but this means they will only tell a story the way the Government would have it told.

Last week on the RTE they announced that 600 homes had been reprocessed this year but the fact is 600 families have lost there homes and thats only a number we are been given.

The RTE has in no way investigated how many people have had to give their kids less and less food for the choice of hunger or losing their homes because of the banks failures.

____________________________________________________________

I hope people see what I am saying about how the Government has more control over our lives than they make out and how this makes everyone one of the same a modern day slave. We are told 450,000 people are unemployed we paid our taxes for our dole money, our health care, our water "we pay for our water already we have done since the 80's" and they want to charge again saying that we never have paid "Do they think we forgot?" they also want to cut our health care which we have been paying for!!!

This all comes down to the Government robbing our money and telling us its to save us and create new jobs its not they are crooks.
Even the Gardi are saying it : http://www.sovereignindependent.com/?p=6342

Be careful on who you vote for FF = FG just the same they always have been look at the history books, the internet and old news papers.

mecanoman · 28-07-2010 2:13pm

Frighten stuff reading that, pity none of the Goverment/Overlords

or their 2buddies" will ever see a jail cell.

But you will if you don't pay your TV licence. As for our News media they'll

just keep spoon feeding us mindless dribble followed by the sports results!

Duiske · 28-07-2010 2:50pm

mecanoman wrote: »

Frighten stuff reading that, pity none of the Goverment/Overlords

or their 2buddies" will ever see a jail cell.

But you will if you don't pay your TV licence. As for our News media they'll

just keep spoon feeding us mindless dribble followed by the sports results!

edit. Sorry. Meant to quote parts of the OP, not mechanoman.

Arnotts did not go out yesterday and buy Arnotts. Arnotts are in debt to Anglo and Ulster Bank to the tune of 250m euro. The banks have to step in and sort the mess out. If Arnotts go bust the banks lose that 250m, plus 950 people are out of work. What do you suggest they do ? Sit back and do nothing ?

Again, on the issue of the bank bailouts, what do you think would happen if BoI or AIB went bust ? Because of the bank guarantee scheme the Gov would be liable for losse's, which would make the bailout cost look like chicken feed. And who would the Gov borrow the money from to cover the costs ? Nobody. Who in their right minds would lend to a country that did not have a properly functioning financial system.

Audiomad · 28-07-2010 3:15pm

Duiske wrote: »

edit. Sorry. Meant to quote parts of the OP, not mechanoman.

Arnotts did not go out yesterday and buy Arnotts.

Arnotts are in debt to Anglo and Ulster Bank to the tune of 250m euro. The banks have to step in and sort the mess out. If Arnotts go bust the banks lose that 250m, plus 950 people are out of work. What do you suggest they do ? Sit back and do nothing ?

Again, on the issue of the bank bailouts, what do you think would happen if BoI or AIB went bust ? Because of the bank guarantee scheme the Gov would be liable for losse's, which would make the bailout cost look like chicken feed. And who would the Gov borrow the money from to cover the costs ? Nobody. Who in their right minds would lend to a country that did not have a properly functioning financial system.

Anglo bought an Arnotts store!! Anglo is now owned by the Government : http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100728/tuk-anglo-irish-bank-to-take-over-store-e1cd776.html

No one ever said that we had to save the Banks the Government did they could have sold Anglo and made a profit but they wont because they already owned a large stake in the bank or they could have let it go saving €22B of tax payers money but it all comes down to the Government stake.

The Government takes loans from the EU it has done for years if you know anyone going to collage and if they have applied for a grant that grant is funded by the EU its stated on the Grant confirmation letter.

The EU also gives money to the Governments in the EU for infrastructure building.

You never mentioned about anyone losing their homes why not? want Anglo more than knowing a child has a roof over his/her head? knowing a child is not going to bed hungry?

Wake up!

humanji · 28-07-2010 4:10pm

Audiomad wrote: »

Anglo bought an Arnotts store!! Anglo is now owned by the Government : http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100728/tuk-anglo-irish-bank-to-take-over-store-e1cd776.html

No one ever said that we had to save the Banks the Government did they could have sold Anglo and made a profit but they wont because they already owned a large stake in the bank or they could have let it go saving €22B of tax payers money but it all comes down to the Government stake.

The Government takes loans from the EU it has done for years if you know anyone going to collage and if they have applied for a grant that grant is funded by the EU its stated on the Grant confirmation letter.

The EU also gives money to the Governments in the EU for infrastructure building.

You never mentioned about anyone losing their homes why not? want Anglo more than knowing a child has a roof over his/her head? knowing a child is not going to bed hungry?

Wake up!

Why should the government pay for peoples homes? In a perfect world, it'd be nice if they did, but really, why should they? They have to look after the entire country, so if they're letting one person off on their mortgage, why aren't they letting everyone off? Why not write off every mortgage and we'll all own our own homes?

And on the grand scheme of things, some people losing their homes is not as bad as an entire country going bankrupt and everybody losing their homes. It's the lesser of two evils.

Duiske · 28-07-2010 4:24pm

Audiomad wrote: »

Anglo bought an Arnotts store!! Anglo is now owned by the Government : http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100728/tuk-anglo-irish-bank-to-take-over-store-e1cd776.html

Where exactly in that link does it say that Anglo Irish Bank have bought Arnotts ?

Taken from that link

"Arnotts Holdings Ltd confirms that it is working with its banks (Anglo Irish Bank and Ulster Bank) as part of the ongoing process agreed last February to restructure the group's financing," a statement read. "Arnotts is performing very strongly with trading for the first half of the year ahead of the Irish retail market.

No one ever said that we had to save the Banks the Government did they could have sold Anglo and made a profit but they wont because they already owned a large stake in the bank or they could have let it go saving €22B of tax payers money but it all comes down to the Government stake.

Do you actually know how the Government came to own a stake in Anglo ?

Do you know what the costs would have been had Anglo failed ?

Do you know what the knock on effects to the whole Irish banking system would have been ?

You never mentioned about anyone losing their homes why not? want Anglo more than knowing a child has a roof over his/her head? knowing a child is not going to bed hungry?

r

Are you suggesting that the Gov should have let Anglo fail, and instead used the 22bn to bailout people who took out huge loans they had no hope of repaying if their circumstances changed even slightly for the worse. This is going to sound harsh, but people need to take personnal responsibility for their own financial decisions.

Anyway, there is no conspiracy here, and this discussion should be in the Irish Economy forum. Its a situation caused by personnel greed and unsound business practises.

phantom_lord · 28-07-2010 4:52pm

Audiomad wrote: »

Ok it has to be noted Ireland is one of the most corrupt countries in the world only because of the Irish Government robbing its people.

Here are a few examples :

Nama €56B of tax payers money used to save the banks, not to long ago the owner of Anglo Irish went bankrupt this means that the Irish Government now owns Anglo after they spent €22B of the €56B to save the bank.

But just released today : http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100728/tuk-anglo-irish-bank-to-take-over-store-e1cd776.html

Anglo buy's Arnotts store and fears over 1000 will lose their jobs because of it. Why is a bank that cant pay its own bills going around buy property? That €22B has just gone back into Government pockets while people are losing their homes.

Nama just make it known to people if you have worked and you took out a loan the money the bank charges you for paying back is yours!! €200,000 for every man women and child in this country would not add up anywhere near the €56B that has been taken from the people.

The Government also bought 15% of Bank of Ireland using tax payers money we own part of all the banks in this country. Why are we paying the banks for our own money?

____________________________________________________________

More.. The Irish Government buys up stakes in Irish companies 29% of Aer Lingus is owned by the Government it has done since its the company started. This means they get 29% of the profits each year where has all this money gone too? Aer Lingus was start on May 22, 1936.

Some of the companies the Irish Government owns stakes in : Guinness, RTE, Independent Media, AIB, Anglo, Bank of Ireland, Irish rail and so many more which would have a massive amount of revenue each year.

___________________________________________________________

More.. The Government is to cut €3B more this year that we know of the budget still has to come but a lot of money is being spent on projects around the country that shows the fact the money is being taken to fund these projects.

Examples : http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/dart_underground.asp The under ground dart system being paid buy the Government but why is the Government paying the fee's for a company that is able to pay its own way in expanding?

Some of this money for the budget this year going on our roads they say its to fix them but we pay the highest road tax of any country €100 for a 1.4 Focus, and it had been increasing over the years thats a lot of money that has not been spent on fixing roads but for projects like this : http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0727/limerick.html all for a 20min saving of time to travel around the City of Limerick but this is not the only project of its kind. All the motor ways in the country are being upgraded and this money is being taken from a €39B invested that is supposed to create jobs "Only for the time it takes to make these upgrades after that all the jobs are gone"

___________________________________________________________

Our Government is going around paying for companies to expand on stupid little expansions that do not expand into other markets "Other Countries" only in so called infrastructure which brings in no money whats so ever.

___________________________________________________________

The RTE is partially owned buy the Government this means they will not say anything to the Government to make them angry to put it in a nice way but this means they will only tell a story the way the Government would have it told.

Last week on the RTE they announced that 600 homes had been reprocessed this year but the fact is 600 families have lost there homes and thats only a number we are been given.

The RTE has in no way investigated how many people have had to give their kids less and less food for the choice of hunger or losing their homes because of the banks failures.

____________________________________________________________

I hope people see what I am saying about how the Government has more control over our lives than they make out and how this makes everyone one of the same a modern day slave. We are told 450,000 people are unemployed we paid our taxes for our dole money, our health care, our water "we pay for our water already we have done since the 80's" and they want to charge again saying that we never have paid "Do they think we forgot?" they also want to cut our health care which we have been paying for!!!

This all comes down to the Government robbing our money and telling us its to save us and create new jobs its not they are crooks.
Even the Gardi are saying it : http://www.sovereignindependent.com/?p=6342

Be careful on who you vote for FF = FG just the same they always have been look at the history books, the internet and old news papers.

Did you put any thought into this or is it a stream of conscious type post, because there's a huge amount of inaccuracies and mistruths in there?

Audiomad · 28-07-2010 5:21pm

Where exactly in that link does it say that Anglo Irish Bank have bought Arnotts ?

Try reading what I said!

Do you know what the costs would have been had Anglo failed ?

Do you? when the Government said it would cost more that was for them selfs they never gave a quote to any media!!

Do you know what the knock on effects to the whole Irish banking system would have been ?

Companies fail thats what happens! Why do the Irish people have to pay the price?

Why should the government pay for peoples homes? In a perfect world, it'd be nice if they did, but really, why should they? They have to look after the entire country, so if they're letting one person off on their mortgage, why aren't they letting everyone off? Why not write off every mortgage and we'll all own our own homes?

Why should the people pay to save a bank we don't want! The reason that people are losing their homes is because of failings in the Government and banking system. The Irish Government gave American companies tax breaks to come here but most of the packed up to go to Poland and China starting the recession here.

Did you put any thought into this or is it a stream of conscious type post, because there's a huge amount of inaccuracies and mistruths in there?

Investigate this your self I don't show anything here that is not fact!

And for anyone who doubts me investigate it your self!!!!

Duiske · 28-07-2010 6:24pm

Try reading what I said!

I have. You said Anglo Irish Bank bought Arnotts. They have not. Its quite simple really.

Do you? when the Government said it would cost more that was for them selfs they never gave a quote to any media!!

Between 60 and 70 billion euro.

Companies fail thats what happens! Why do the Irish people have to pay the price?

The Irish people have to pay the price because the Irish Government guaranteed (through the Bank Guarantee Scheme) that they would.

Why should the people pay to save a bank we don't want! The reason that people are losing their homes is because of failings in the Government and banking system. The Irish Government gave American companies tax breaks to come here but most of the packed up to go to Poland and China starting the recession here.

Of course, yes. It was the banks fault. It had nothing to do with the country becoming completely uncompetitive.

I don't show anything here that is not fact!

That not entirely factual.

phantom_lord · 28-07-2010 6:40pm

Audiomad wrote: »

Investigate this your self I don't show anything here that is not fact!

That's a lie. Why don't you investigate this stuff for "your self" because it's clear you don't even have a basic understanding of what you're talking about.

Audiomad wrote: »

not to long ago the owner of Anglo Irish went bankrupt

The owner of Anglo? Really? Who was that now?

Anglo buy's Arnotts store and fears over 1000 will lose their jobs because of it.

Um, no they didn't, and also your second statment isn't true either.

More.. The Irish Government buys up stakes in Irish companies 29% of Aer Lingus is owned by the Government it has done since its the company started.

This isn't very clear, are you saying the irish gov bought a stake in aer lingus and that it's always owned 29%? Because neither of those statements are true.

This means they get 29% of the profits each year where has all this money gone too?

No it doesn't, and the answer to your second question is very simple, I'm surprised you haven't investigated it?

Some of the companies the Irish Government owns stakes in : Guinness, RTE

Neither of these are companies.

which would have a massive amount of revenue each year.

Do you know the difference between revenue and profit?

Examples : http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/dart_underground.asp The under ground dart system being paid buy the Government but why is the Government paying the fee's for a company that is able to pay its own way in expanding?

The answer to this is very simple, did you not investigate this either?

Our Government is going around paying for companies to expand on stupid little expansions that do not expand into other markets "Other Countries" only in so called infrastructure which brings in no money whats so ever.

If you had investigated this you wouldn't say things like this

The RTE is partially owned buy the Government

Um, no it's not.

The Government takes loans from the EU it has done for years if you know anyone going to collage and if they have applied for a grant that grant is funded by the EU its stated on the Grant confirmation letter.

That's not a loan.

this means they will not say anything to the Government to make them angry to put it in a nice way but this means they will only tell a story the way the Government would have it told.

Are you eight or something? Are you saying the government exercises strict censorship?

I hope people see what I am saying about how the Government has more control over our lives than they make out and how this makes everyone one of the same a modern day slave.

Yeah sure.

Audiomad · 28-07-2010 6:49pm

I have. You said Anglo Irish Bank bought Arnotts. They have not. Its quite simple really.

Highlight that text for me I also gave you the link to the Yahoo news page read it!.

Between 60 and 70 billion euro.

The Irish Times says that : But there are no real figures only speculation Anglo had been failing for over a decade pumped with money because of the Government. To close down Anglo all they had to do was transfer the money to other banks and that would have given the other banks profits.

The share holders all know the ricks of owning shares so they know what comes with owning shares "They might gain / lose value or fail"

The Irish people have to pay the price because the Irish Government guaranteed (through the Bank Guarantee Scheme) that they would.

And it all comes back to Anglo, the Government owns shares when a company needs help the Government loses money so they passed that bill so they would not have to use their own money but tax payers money.

Of course, yes. It was the banks fault. It had nothing to do with the country becoming completely uncompetitive.

Yes I agree, banks, contractors, American companies. Do you know how hard it is to get a business loan in this country? yet contractors and other big businesses can. These are all close to the Governments chest. Building thousands of houses and Apartments was encouraged by the Government there are more homes and apartments to people in this country.

And this all comes back to Anglo the business bank. "was once the peoples bank but because it was failing for over a decade its only business serving"

Note none of the big contractors that owe millions lose their homes but normal tax payers do!! People who lost their jobs because of companies going bust or moving to other countries. "Companies don't want to be hear now is because not many people have the extra funds to spend on buying their products"

The Government does not invest in companies that could make products to export but they do want to build roads and homes why is that. There are a lot of contractors pulling the shots in Government.

phantom_lord · 28-07-2010 6:53pm

Audiomad wrote: »

Highlight that text for me I also gave you the link to the Yahoo news page read it!.

Audiomad · 28-07-2010 6:53pm

This isn't very clear, are you saying the irish gov bought a stake in aer lingus and that it's always owned 29%? Because neither of those statements are true.

http://www.irelandinformationguide.com/Aer_Lingus

Try investigating instead of protecting the Government and the rest of your comments I have to laugh at try investigating!!!

phantom_lord · 28-07-2010 6:55pm

Audiomad wrote: »

http://www.irelandinformationguide.com/Aer_Lingus

Try investigating instead of protecting the Government and the rest of your comments I have to laugh at try investigating!!!

Ok, now it's clear you're obviously trolling, because there's no possible way someone can be this dim.

Audiomad · 28-07-2010 7:00pm

phantom_lord wrote: »

Ok, now it's clear you're obviously trolling, because there's no possible way someone can be this dim.

Sounds like your talking about your self.

Myrddin · 28-07-2010 7:26pm

I don't think there is a conspiracy per say, just shockingly bad politicians, governing over a nation rife with begrudgery, back-handers, and a sore lack of vision.

Torakx · 28-07-2010 8:33pm

Sorry must agree with the op last comment,i would never call someone dim as you have but i do believe the word trolling fits.All i am seeing is counter posts that say in general.."thats not true".. "thats a lie"
As someone impartial to the convo im finding it very hard to see where you are getting your information from phantomlord.Can you please be a bit more forthcoming with where your getting your information so i can decide for myself as appose to taking your word for it.

Torakx · 28-07-2010 8:45pm

EnterNow wrote: »

I don't think there is a conspiracy per say, just shockingly bad politicians, governing over a nation rife with begrudgery, back-handers, and a sore lack of vision.

Im not so sure to be honest.Goldman and Sach has been linked to the greece incident through the chairman that spoke at a meeting to "help" the country with finance and was hosted by the bank of Greece.

Few years later and Greece is in a bad way financially.(there is a thread here on it afaik)
Now whats interesting at the time i was researching the Greece and Goldman Sach thing is that i found out it was either rockefeller or Goldman Sach themselves who soo nafter The greece incident hit were then advising NAMA!
Who wants advice from someone who took down the Greek economy!
Theres possibly a conspiracy here somewhere imo.And its got to do with alot of money changing hands.

humanji · 28-07-2010 9:12pm

phantom_lord wrote: »

Ok, now it's clear you're obviously trolling, because there's no possible way someone can be this dim.

Audiomad wrote: »

Sounds like your talking about your self.

Behave and don't make it personal!

phantom_lord · 28-07-2010 9:25pm

Torakx wrote: »

Sorry must agree with the op last comment,i would never call someone dim as you have but i do believe the word trolling fits.All i am seeing is counter posts that say in general.."thats not true".. "thats a lie"
As someone impartial to the convo im finding it very hard to see where you are getting your information from phantomlord.Can you please be a bit more forthcoming with where your getting your information so i can decide for myself as appose to taking your word for it.

which one do you want me to explain? there was far too many mistakes in the op for me to go through each one in detail. plus if he can't grasp that anglo hasn't bought arnotts or understand my question about aer lingus i'm wasting my time.

Audiomad · 28-07-2010 10:17pm

phantom_lord wrote: »

which one do you want me to explain? there was far too many mistakes in the op for me to go through each one in detail. plus if he can't grasp that anglo hasn't bought arnotts or understand my question about aer lingus i'm wasting my time.

Anglo buy's Arnotts store READ : http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100728/tuk-anglo-irish-bank-to-take-over-store-e1cd776.html

Aer Lingus :
http://www.independent.ie/topics/Aer+Lingus+Group+plc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aer_Lingus
http://www.irelandinformationguide.com/Aer_Lingus

Anything else you want me to clarify phantom_lord ?

phantom_lord · 28-07-2010 10:33pm

This is the specific question I asked you:

This isn't very clear, are you saying the irish gov bought a stake in aer lingus and that it's always owned 29%?

Audiomad wrote: »

Anglo buy's Arnotts store READ : http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100728/tuk-anglo-irish-bank-to-take-over-store-e1cd776.html

That is not buying Arnotts. They're taking control of it as it's unable to pay it's debts. That's very different. It's the same as the bank taking someone's house after they default on a mortgage,

That's why none of this quote makes any sense:

Anglo buy's Arnotts store and fears over 1000 will lose their jobs because of it. Why is a bank that cant pay its own bills going around buy property?

Audiomad · 28-07-2010 10:45pm

phantom_lord wrote: »

This is the specific question I asked you:

That is not buying Arnotts. They're taking control of it as it's unable to pay it's debts. That's very different. It's the same as the bank taking someone's house after they default on a mortgage,

That's why none of this quote makes any sense:

I never said they where buying Arnotts I was simply coping the headline from Yahoo news maybe you should have read it instead of going on a crusade of deny deny deny.

Aer Lingus
When the company was started in 1939 they owned 14% not long after that it was increased to 16% and now 29% either way its money the Irish people never saw again! and all the revenue built up over the years.

If your question is do the Government own 29% Aer Lingus yes they do!!!

phantom_lord · 28-07-2010 10:52pm

Audiomad wrote: »

I never said they where buying Arnotts

Eh?

Audiomad wrote: »

Anglo buy's Arnotts store and fears over 1000 will lose their jobs because of it. Why is a bank that cant pay its own bills going around buy property?

Audiomad wrote: »

I was simply coping the headline from Yahoo news maybe you should have read it instead of going on a crusade of deny deny deny.

orly?

yahoo wrote:

Anglo Irish Bank to take over store

Audiomad wrote: »

Aer Lingus
When the company was started in 1939 they owned 14% not long after that it was increased to 16% and now 29% either way its money the Irish people never saw again! and all the revenue built up over the years.

Um, no. I think you're forgetting something really important in the history of Aer Lingus, maybe you should investigate that?

Along with everything else I've quoted in your post.

Audiomad wrote: »

If your question is do the Government own 29% Aer Lingus yes they do!!!

Read my question again. And the answer to the question you wrote here is actually no, they don't.

Audiomad · 28-07-2010 11:06pm

Yes they do own part of Aer Lingus 29%

See I'm a person who watch's the stock markets and Aer Lingus was a company I was watching because it could be a good investment when the company first went onto the stock market the shares where priced at €10 with a minimum of €10,000 worth shares could be bought, So I rang just to see what they had planned for the future in terms of business expansions and to know if the price would be allowed to fluctuate "the €10,000 minimum"

I asked where they partially owned by the Government as investigating I found the same three references I gave you and knowing this becomes a safety net when buying into Irish companies "Knowing how the Government operates" I was told they where from them selfs that Aer Lingus is partially owned by the Government.

So ring tomorrow and look over the three refs I gave you.

HavingCrack · 28-07-2010 11:07pm

Am I the only one who doesn't see what conspiracy the OP is on about

robtri · 28-07-2010 11:10pm

Audiomad wrote: »

Yes they do own part of Aer Lingus 29%

.

well to be pedantic.. its 28.3%
sorry couldnt resist

robtri · 28-07-2010 11:11pm

HavingCrack wrote: »

Am I the only one who doesn't see what conspiracy the OP is on about

nope you are not alone,

phantom_lord · 28-07-2010 11:22pm

Audiomad wrote: »

I asked where they partially owned by the Government

lol seriously? you actually had to ask that?

phantom_lord · 28-07-2010 11:25pm

Audiomad wrote: »

they owned 14% not long after that it was increased to 16% and now 29% either way its money the Irish people never saw again! and all the revenue built up over the years.

are you mixing up ryanair with the government here?

namloc1980 · 28-07-2010 11:30pm

Audiomad wrote: »

Highlight that text for me

Ok so...

Audiomad wrote: »

Anglo buy's Arnotts store and fears over 1000 will lose their jobs because of it. Why is a bank that cant pay its own bills going around buy property?

Seems to be alot of confusion here.

Audiomad · 28-07-2010 11:40pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

Ok so... Seems to be alot of confusion here.

store and stores see it?

lol seriously? you actually had to ask that?

Yes its called knowing the business you are buying into, can mean the difference between profits and losses

are you mixing up ryanair with the government here?

No, do you work for Ryan air? because you seem to love stopping people from knowing that 29% of Aer Lingus is owned by the Government.

namloc1980 · 28-07-2010 11:46pm

Audiomad wrote: »

More.. The Irish Government buys up stakes in Irish companies 29% of Aer Lingus is owned by the Government it has done since its the company started. This means they get 29% of the profits each year where has all this money gone too? Aer Lingus was start on May 22, 1936.

Mmmmmm....I think you're missing out on a major part of Aer Lingus' history.

Aer Lingus was state-owned until 2006

Audiomad wrote: »

Examples : http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/dart_underground.asp The under ground dart system being paid buy the Government but why is the Government paying the fee's for a company that is able to pay its own way in expanding?

Yeah...how dare the Government invest in vital infrastructure projects in this country :rolleyes:

phantom_lord · 28-07-2010 11:47pm

Audiomad wrote: »

store and stores see it?

Yes its called knowing the business you are buying into, can mean the difference between profits and losses

No, do you work for Ryan air? because you seem to love stopping people from knowing that 29% of Aer Lingus is owned by the Government.

Good point, I'm sure you're a very knowledgeable and prudent investor.

Actually, I'm a High Court Judge and spend most of time off trying to fight the freeman movement as it will put me out of the job.

phantom_lord · 28-07-2010 11:50pm

Oh wait, are saying Anglo bought a single shop from Arnotts?

namloc1980 · 28-07-2010 11:51pm

Audiomad wrote: »

store and stores see it?

What are you on about??

Audiomad wrote: »

No, do you work for Ryan air? because you seem to love stopping people from knowing that 29% of Aer Lingus is owned by the Government.

You do realise that Aer Lingus was state owned until 2006?!? So the Government now own less of Aer Lingus than they ever have since the airline was founded in 1936.

Audiomad · 28-07-2010 11:52pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

Mmmmmm....I think you're missing out on a major part of Aer Ligus' history.
Aer Lingus was state-owned until 2006

Yeah...how dare the Government invest in vital infrastructure projects in this country :rolleyes:

Do you really think they would give up profits? and the fact is it was "state owned" but they still own the 29% and its on the stock market to make a profit!

Their not investing they are paying the fee! Why is Irish Rail not paying the bill?

phantom_lord · 28-07-2010 11:54pm

Audiomad wrote: »

Do you really think they would give up profits? and the fact is it was "state owned" but they still own the 29% and its on the stock market to make a profit!

Their not investing they are paying the fee! Why is Irish Rail not paying the bill?

Do you know the Irish Government is a corporation, maybe that has something to do with it. Or else they're duping the shareholdings, good thing you researched before you bought into it.

namloc1980 · 29-07-2010 12:01am

Audiomad wrote: »

Do you really think they would give up profits? and the fact is it was "state owned" but they still own the 29% and its on the stock market to make a profit!

Their not investing they are paying the fee! Why is Irish Rail not paying the bill?

You do realise that Aer Lingus made a €130m LOSS in 2009 right. Here's the 2009 Annual results and a €110m LOSS in 2008. Not much profit there I'm afraid. Also Aer Lingus do not pay dividends even if they were making a profit. So where are these magic profits you speak of???

Irish Rail can't even pay for it's own day to day running costs so where do you think it would come up with €3bn to built the Interconnector?????

Audiomad · 29-07-2010 12:31am

phantom_lord wrote: »

Do you know the Irish Government is a corporation, maybe that has something to do with it. Or else they're duping the shareholdings, good thing you researched before you bought into it.

Yes they act like a corporation, what point are you trying to make?

You do realise that Aer Lingus made a €130m LOSS in 2009 right. Here's the 2009 Annual results and a €110m LOSS in 2008. Not much profit there I'm afraid. Also Aer Lingus do not pay dividends even if they were making a profit. So where are these magic profits you speak of???

And they lost profit so did the Government maybe one way of getting money back is to increase water tax?

Irish Rail can't even pay for it's own day to day running costs so where do you think it would come up with €3bn to built the Interconnector?????

Exactly why do the people need to pay the bill? 600 families lost their homes this year, most people who have jobs today are only getting paid half of what they used to get, 450,000 unemployed.

That money would be better spent on creating industries not paying for an under ground dart when you can take the bus!

namloc1980 · 29-07-2010 12:47am

Audiomad wrote: »

And they lost profit so did the Government maybe one way of getting money back is to increase water tax?

How could they lose profit if it never made any in the first place?? Ireland is one of the few countries in the world that has no domestic water charges and our system shows all the signs of such.

Audiomad wrote: »

Exactly why do the people need to pay the bill? 600 families lost their homes this year, most people who have jobs today are only getting paid half of what they used to get, 450,000 unemployed.

That money would be better spent on creating industries not paying for an under ground dart when you can take the bus!

The interconnector will employ nearly 7,000 people during construction click, 7,000 badly needed jobs in my view. Investment in infrastructure is not a luxury, it is a necessity. Lack of investment for decades has left the infrastructure in this country in a poor state, now that the Govt are pledging to build infrastructure and create jobs, some people want to shoot it down....typical.

Audiomad · 29-07-2010 11:25am

namloc1980 wrote: »

How could they lose profit if it never made any in the first place?? Ireland is one of the few countries in the world that has no domestic water charges and our system shows all the signs of such.

You need to look into the water charges taxes have been in place since the 80's they are even talking about bringing in new charges. "In our Constitution every man should have the basic necessaries" Water! access to food etc.

The interconnector will employ nearly 7,000 people during construction click, 7,000 badly needed jobs in my view. Investment in infrastructure is not a luxury, it is a necessity. Lack of investment for decades has left the infrastructure in this country in a poor state, now that the Govt are pledging to build infrastructure and create jobs, some people want to shoot it down....typical.

Infrastructure is a luxury and this one is something we don't need right now "Damaged roads we have road tax to fix them" we have Dublin Bus and the luas at a time where the country needs more people working the 7,000 is a very small number for a short period of time while spending a lot of money on the project.

You need to know that all the so called infrastructure "roads" money comes from our tax every man and women is supposed to have the right to free travel around Ireland : M50, The Shannon Limerick Tunnel and other tolls just show how much the Government care!!!

Do you not think it would be better to invest into companies that could expand with the making of products that could be shipped over sea's? investing in home companies?

Andypando · 29-07-2010 12:13pm

Perhaps off topic slightly , but reading your post made me think of this piece I was reading in some conspiracy site some time ago. It is a piece by Gabriel Donohue and I wondered if it hit the news in Ireland in any great detail at the time.
I don't read or listen to a lot of the Irish MSM of late as I think they are mostly smoke and mirrors. The following is but a part of the full article.

When a national police association accuses its government of what amounts to treason it is time to sit up and pay attention.

Michael O'Boyce, President of the Garda Representative Association (GRA), said at its annual conference in Limerick, at the end of April, 2010, that the Irish Government had been 'corrupted' and had been 'bought' by developers and bankers. (A garda is an Irish policeman, gardaí in the plural.)

Mr. O'Boyce, speaking on behalf of the country's 11,000 gardaí, charged government ministers with sacrificing the country to protect 'wealthy cronies' who had bankrolled the leading government party, Fianna Fáil. Such criticism of a serving government by its police force is unprecedented in Irish history and extremely rare in any western democracy.

Smarting from recent government disparagement of the gardaí a rankled Mr. O'Boyce pointed to an aggravating Fianna Fáil gaffe. While the government referred to the gardaí as 'self-serving, overpaid, underworked and dishonest people', it at the same time praised the 'entrepreneurial skill' and 'business acumen' of failed banksters like Sean Fitzpatrick (Anglo Irish Bank) and Michael Fingleton (Irish Nationwide Building Society), two people who played a huge part in bringing the Irish economy to its knees.

Clearly infuriated by collapsing living standards and the abject state of the economy, Mr. O'Boyce intended to deliver his speech directly to the Minister of Justice, Dermot Ahern, who was scheduled to attend the annual conference of the GRA. However, Mr. Ahern was sent a copy of the speech in advance and hastily declined to attend.

Mr. O'Boyce would have castigated the Justice Minister directly by saying, "The Government of which you are a long-serving member has mismanaged the wealth of this country for more than a decade by allowing our assets to be plundered and robbed by bankers and speculators, and you are making generations of Irish workers pay the price for this treachery...

"...You did this because bankers and speculators have bought your party, and in return you have sacrificed the greater good and prosperity of the Irish nation for the benefit of the few - the few who have now taken their ill-gotten gains and secured them in tax havens around the world. Truly, a government of national sabotage."

Gardaí present at the meeting gave Mr. O'Boyce a standing ovation for the speech of which they were aware but which was never actually made. Nonetheless, the speech was angrily criticised by politicians and others who said that a police force should not intervene in politics. Justice Minister Ahern said that he utterly refuted the allegations made in the speech and that such remarks "besmirch the reputation of the force and have no place in a modern democracy."

Government backbencher Niall Collins said, "...[F]or me to hear a member of An Garda Síochána accuse a sovereign Government of robbery, corruption and treason, and this coming from a member of An Garda Síochána who are the agents of the State to investigate and prosecute these types of crimes, it's just clearly not sustainable."

This is an amazing attack on a modern democratic government described by the country's own police association as "a government of national sabotage." What prompted such wrath and fury from the GRA and does the Association have any basis for charging the Irish Government with treachery or treason?

Read more: http://www.articlesbase.com/banking-articles/cops-charge-irish-government-with-treason-2872483.html#ixzz0v4JTGz4R
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution

Audiomad · 29-07-2010 12:18pm

This is whats happening in Ireland right now http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0729/1224275692314.html people are having to fight to keep their homes, what happens here they just focus on Aer Lingus.

Your sick!!

Scarab80 · 29-07-2010 12:47pm

Audiomad wrote: »

This is whats happening in Ireland right now http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0729/1224275692314.html people are having to fight to keep their homes, what happens here they just focus on Aer Lingus.

Your sick!!

What are you talking about?? The last transaction the government had with Aer Lingus was in 2006 when they sold 70% of their holding and received about €240 million from private investors.

Since then they have not given any money to Aer Lingus and they have not received any dividends on their holding because Aer Lingus do not have enough cash to pay dividends.

What's your point?

Audiomad · 29-07-2010 12:57pm

Scarab80 wrote: »

What are you talking about?? The last transaction the government had with Aer Lingus was in 2006 when they sold 70% of their holding and received about €240 million from private investors.

Since then they have not given any money to Aer Lingus and they have not received any dividends on their holding because Aer Lingus do not have enough cash to pay dividends.

What's your point?

Here we go again read the first post! this tread is not about Aer Lingus.

Aer Lingus was not sold privately http://www.goodbody.ie/servlets/MarketInformation?DATA=ISEQ The Government would never give up all the ownership of the company look over the history of Aer Lingus & ring them if you don't believe me!!!!

Scarab80 · 29-07-2010 1:17pm

Audiomad wrote: »

Here we go again read the first post! this tread is not about Aer Lingus.

Aer Lingus was not sold privately http://www.goodbody.ie/servlets/MarketInformation?DATA=ISEQ The Government would never give up all the ownership of the company look over the history of Aer Lingus & ring them if you don't believe me!!!!

Private means non-government, i don't mean it was sold in secrecy.

You link to the current share price of aer lingus on the iseq which shows that the shares are traded to the ISEQ stock exchange, why? That means that the formerly state owned can now be bought by anyone.

I know the history of Aer Lingus and i know the reason why the government is holding on to it's shareholding. For instance they were important in stopping the Ryanair hostile takeover bid which would have created a monopoly of irish airlines.

I'll respond to your first post in a moment, it's quite a hoot!

HavingCrack · 29-07-2010 1:22pm

Why is anybody even bothering to debate with this eejit :rolleyes:.

Scarab80 · 29-07-2010 2:16pm

Audiomad wrote: »

Ok it has to be noted Ireland is one of the most corrupt countries in the world only because of the Irish Government robbing its people.

Here are a few examples :

Nama €56B of tax payers money used to save the banks, not to long ago the owner of Anglo Irish went bankrupt this means that the Irish Government now owns Anglo after they spent €22B of the €56B to save the bank.

Where are you getting 56bn from? The current situation in the banking sector is as follows;

Anglo - 22bn expected final cost over about 10 years, 14.3 billion actually promised to the bank, 4bn actually paid to the bank.

INBS - 2.7bn expected cost over 10 years which has been officially promised to the building society, 100m actually paid.

EBS - 800m expected cost, possibility that this will be met by a buy out from private sector investors, 100m actually paid.

BOI and AIB - 3.5bn put into each bank as preference and ordinary shares. Current valuation of investment at todays market prices shows a profit of about 800m to the state.

NAMA - will buy loans from the above named institutions with a nominal value of 81bn for total consideration of about 40bn (final price yet to be finalised). Worse case scenario from NAMA envisage a loss of 800m, best case a gain of about 4bn.

Audiomad wrote: »

But just released today : http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100728/tuk-anglo-irish-bank-to-take-over-store-e1cd776.html

Anglo buy's Arnotts store and fears over 1000 will lose their jobs because of it. Why is a bank that cant pay its own bills going around buy property? That €22B has just gone back into Government pockets while people are losing their homes.

As many people have pointed out Anglo did not buy Arnotts, they have taken over the company to ensure repayment of loans made by them.

Audiomad wrote: »

Nama just make it known to people if you have worked and you took out a loan the money the bank charges you for paying back is yours!! €200,000 for every man women and child in this country would not add up anywhere near the €56B that has been taken from the people.

200,000 x 4.5 million population = 900bn

Audiomad wrote: »

The Government also bought 15% of Bank of Ireland using tax payers money we own part of all the banks in this country. Why are we paying the banks for our own money?/QUOTE]

As pointed out above we are currently in profit on the investment into BOI and AIB, we own 34% of BOI by the way.

Why are we putting money into the banks? I suggest you read up on fractional reserve banking and how it works. Only a small portion of the money banks lend out is their own money, the majority of it is the money held by it's depositers. Yes that money in your current account is not actually in the bank, it was given to a developer to build a ghost estate. That is why everyone in the country has an interest in saving the banks.

Audiomad wrote: »

More.. The Irish Government buys up stakes in Irish companies 29% of Aer Lingus is owned by the Government it has done since its the company started. This means they get 29% of the profits each year where has all this money gone too? Aer Lingus was start on May 22, 1936.

Aer Lingus was owned and built by the government, i.e. they owned 100% of Aer Lingus, in the same way as we own 100% of ESB, Bord Gais, Irish Rail, Dublin Bus etc etc. In 2006 it sold off 70% of it's holding for 260 million.

Audiomad wrote: »

Some of the companies the Irish Government owns stakes in : Guinness, RTE, Independent Media, AIB, Anglo, Bank of Ireland, Irish rail and so many more which would have a massive amount of revenue each year.

Guinness is owned by Diageo Plc, RTE is independent and is funded by television licence fees, Independent Media is owned by Indpendent News and Media Plc, Tony O'Reilly is the major shareholder, The banks have been done. Yes Irish Rail is a semi-state company the same as the others I mentioned (Irish rail loses money every year)

Dividends received from Bord Gais, ESB, Bord na Mona, Dublin Airport and Dublin Port amounted to 145 million last year. The government spent about 60,000 million last year on public services.

Audiomad wrote: »

More.. The Government is to cut €3B more this year that we know of the budget still has to come but a lot of money is being spent on projects around the country that shows the fact the money is being taken to fund these projects.

You are aware that we had to borrow 20bn last year just to keep the country going. The biggest spending government departments by a country mile are health, education and social welfare, with a total spend last year of 32bn

Audiomad wrote: »

Examples : http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/dart_underground.asp The under ground dart system being paid buy the Government but why is the Government paying the fee's for a company that is able to pay its own way in expanding?

Irish Rail can't even pay it's own employees wages without government help, for them to fund dart underground is laughable.

Audiomad wrote: »

Some of this money for the budget this year going on our roads they say its to fix them but we pay the highest road tax of any country €100 for a 1.4 Focus, and it had been increasing over the years thats a lot of money that has not been spent on fixing roads but for projects like this : http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0727/limerick.html all for a 20min saving of time to travel around the City of Limerick but this is not the only project of its kind. All the motor ways in the country are being upgraded and this money is being taken from a €39B invested that is supposed to create jobs "Only for the time it takes to make these upgrades after that all the jobs are gone"

2.5bn was spent by the department of transport last year, income from motor tax was 1bn. If you don't consider capital investment in the countrys infrastructure a good investment then that would be your own political opinion. A lot of people would disagree with you.

Audiomad wrote: »

Our Government is going around paying for companies to expand on stupid little expansions that do not expand into other markets "Other Countries" only in so called infrastructure which brings in no money whats so ever.

Paying for what companies to expand?? The banks are actively selling off their assets. Through the IDA the government supports companies with 110bn in exports, 136,000 employed directly, 100,000 employed indirectly, 7.1 billion in payroll costs and 2.8 billion in corporation tax.

I really don't understand what your point is? Where's the conspiracy? All you have done is churn out a pile of inaccuracies.....

Audiomad · 29-07-2010 2:23pm

Scarab80 wrote: »

Private means non-government, i don't mean it was sold in secrecy.

You link to the current share price of aer lingus on the iseq which shows that the shares are traded to the ISEQ stock exchange, why? That means that the formerly state owned can now be bought by anyone.

I know the history of Aer Lingus and i know the reason why the government is holding on to it's shareholding. For instance they were important in stopping the Ryanair hostile takeover bid which would have created a monopoly of irish airlines.

I'll respond to your first post in a moment, it's quite a hoot!

You just answered your own questions as you said they own share holdings 29% worth got it now!

For instance they were important in stopping the Ryanair hostile takeover bid which would have created a monopoly of irish airlines.

Thats business!!! all was done was to have both prices or Aer Lingus and Ryan Air driven up for more money to be made nothing else. Ryan Air can go through the EU for a hearing on buying Aer Lingus if they really want it.

There is also Aer Arann but you never hear about Ryan Air wanting to buy that do you.

Why is anybody even bothering to debate with this eejit .

Its not a debate its just ignorant people trying to stop the fact our Government are corrupt.

Do you all think its ok for a child to ending up on the street? or do think trying to turn the thread into a talk about Aer Lingus is better?

There are a lot of people that will see what I am saying and the more you drag this thread out the more people will see the truth so thanks for that haha.

K-9 · 29-07-2010 2:38pm

Audiomad wrote: »

Yes they do own part of Aer Lingus 29%

See I'm a person who watch's the stock markets and Aer Lingus was a company I was watching because it could be a good investment when the company first went onto the stock market the shares where priced at €10 with a minimum of €10,000 worth shares could be bought, So I rang just to see what they had planned for the future in terms of business expansions and to know if the price would be allowed to fluctuate "the €10,000 minimum"

I asked where they partially owned by the Government as investigating I found the same three references I gave you and knowing this becomes a safety net when buying into Irish companies "Knowing how the Government operates" I was told they where from them selfs that Aer Lingus is partially owned by the Government.

So ring tomorrow and look over the three refs I gave you.

Not a Conspiracy though. It's widely known.

Irish Government Conspiracy

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