Today I saw a man get very angry at a little boy he didnt know....

Tipsygypsy

I’ve always had a bit of an issue with activity centres – well not with the centres themselves, more with the way some parents just let their kids run completely wild while they sit back, drink coffee and never once check to see if their kiddies are behaving themselves. I also sit and drink my coffee, but I make sure that that kids aren’t bullying other kids, cursing, being too rough or whatever – I don’t let more than 5 minutes pass without physically getting up and checking all is well with all 3 of my boys. And with good reason....
We were in a local activity centre this morning and all was going well, when I witnessed the following:

3 boys (aged 5-7ish) playing football in the little football netted area also (I was keeping an eye on them while also watching my other kids in other parts of centre, my eldest was in there) and a little 2 year old in there as well (his dad was watching also). I was making sure to remind the bigger kids to watch out for the little fella – and they were being pretty mindful of him in fairness. No problem so far. Little fella is having a great time running after the ball with the big boys initially but then starts hanging out of the goalie (who is not my son, nor do I know him or his mother), pulling on his shirt, goalie says get off and shakes little guy a bit, (no intervention from dad) little guy still hanging out of goalie so goalie gives him a shove, little guy falls backwards. Little fella cries a little but isn’t hurt. So far this is pretty regular occurrence in activity centre, until.... the dad looses the plot completely with the goalie, starts roaring at him, gets right down into his face, holding his little fella in one hand but with the other hand raised shouting ‘how would you feel if I pushed you over like that’ etc, repeated this a few times until staff member came over, called goalies mom (who made goalie apologise to little fella – at this point little fella is screaming crying, not hurt but probably terrified from all the screaming out of his dad). Goalie is terrified and roaring crying, got the fright of his life (the dad was a BIG guy). My own son is also looking pretty pale and nervous in that enclosed space with a large scary VERY angry man. Nobody says anything like ‘back off’ to angry dad - although I dont think goalies mom could have seen him - she definately would have heard him.

Staff member gave a complimentary pass to Angry man for little fella. Goalie was brought to table to sit out rest of playtime. It was time for us to leave then anyway, but I made sure to tell both the attending staff member and the goalies mom that angry man had completely over-reacted.

I also talked to my kids about it on the way home and told them that if any adult (or child) ever behaves like that towards them that they come and get me or another career/grown-up immediately. I’m sorry that I didn’t tell him to back off or do something to defend the goalie but to be honest it happened so quick and I was so shocked at his response, and I was outside of the netting whereas and they were all within it.

My thoughts – goalie should have got the free pass. Poor kid will have serious nightmares after that, I mean I was afraid of the guy, never mind how a seven year old would have felt. And while goalie shouldn’t have pushed the little fella, what else could he do? The dad had been watching, he should have stopped the little guy from hanging out of the goalies clothes. I would also ban angry man from activity centre – you can’t behave that way towards other peoples kids (or your own for that matter).

What are other peoples thoughts on it? How would you react if you were the parent of either child?

mohawk

that is shocking that a grown man would shout at a little boy like that. The child probably shouldn't of pushed the toddler over but thats what kids do. The man should of picked up his son and taken him away.

Personally I think the goalie should of gotten a free pass as lets face it his parents should of being watching him and lets face it he didnt do anything that most of us didnt do growing up.

Speaking as the mother of a toddler I wouldnt let my little man play with older kids that I dont know as a small child can get hurt easily by accident. Activity centres usually have areas for the smaller ones and that is where they belong IMO

I don't know what I would of done in your situation as I think I would of being intimidated by a man over reacting like that.

smelltheglove

That is terrible behaviour. I hd an issue t a play centre once where there was a 5/6 yr old child with some sort of mental disability. The child took a liking to my then under 2 yr old and was pulling out of her, choking her etc, I had to keep pulling the child away, no interaction from the mother.

Eventually a staff member came by and took the child out of the infant area but it started again. We decided to leave early and I ensured to tell the manager who apologised stating the child had a mental disability. I let him know that I wasnt annoyed in anyway about the child being there, disability or not, but parents and staff should be looking out for their kids, instead he was loosing my custom as my child was endangered by the lack of safety there.

Another occassion recently my daughter was cycling along the path outside our house which all kids do, a neighbours visitor walked out of the garden and my daughter, 7, crashed into her completely accidently. She is a well mannered and sensitive child but this person screamed at her and from what I am told continued to scream at her over and over until her friends came over. I was not home but I know had I been I would have been out there screaming at the mother myself, I do not believe anyone has a right to discipline another persons child without their consent.

spurious

Where was goalie's mom when all this was happening?
She could have intervened just as much as 'angry' dad.
I doubt goalie will push a smaller child again in a hurry though.

silverharp

As a dad, in that situation I'd have gone over to the little kid and said, now see what happens when you annoy older kids, may even have winked at the bigger kid if there was no malace in it.

The only time I ever tend to intervine in those situations if my son is being outnumbered and the group whatever age are generally being obnoxious.

barbiegirl

smelltheglove wrote: »

I do not believe anyone has a right to discipline another persons child without their consent.

I have an issue with this statement, as I think an adult, in the absence of the carer being there, has every right to correct a child, in a calm and correct manner. I have done so myself. Not discipline as that is the job of the carer, but certainly to tell them their behaviour is unacceptable and ask them to moderate it. Children should be taught what is acceptable behaviour from an adult stranger , shouting at them, touching them is not, however correcting them is. If they have a problem with the correction they should feel they can refer the adult to their carer, always with both parties being respectful to one another.
The nobody but me can correct my child attitude leads to little terrors running around, with no respect for anyone, as they know if Mammy's back is turned they can do what they like, and if an adult corrects them, Mammy will back them up whether they were in the right or wrong.

smelltheglove

barbiegirl wrote: »

I have an issue with this statement, as I think an adult, in the absence of the carer being there, has every right to correct a child, in a calm and correct manner. I have done so myself. Not discipline as that is the job of the carer, but certainly to tell them their behaviour is unacceptable and ask them to moderate it. Children should be taught what is acceptable behaviour from an adult stranger , shouting at them, touching them is not, however correcting them is. If they have a problem with the correction they should feel they can refer the adult to their carer, always with both parties being respectful to one another. .

I agree with you completely, as I said I dont think anyone has the right to discipline anothers child I never said correct. I dont think an adult should approach a child and shout at them at all, telling them dont touch the little ones is completely different to disciplining a child. I wouldnt mind others correcting my child but not disciplining them, and they dont run around without respect, they are well mannered.

The nobody but me can correct my child attitude leads to little terrors running around, with no respect for anyone, as they know if Mammy's back is turned they can do what they like, and if an adult corrects them, Mammy will back them up whether they were in the right or wrong

I would have backed my daughter up on the occasion above, it was an accident, people in our area are well aware the kids go up and down the path on their bikes, everytime I pull out of the drive I look for kids, if I walk out of the house I will look out for kids, this lady walked straight out of a garden, big bushes either side so my daughter could not see she was coming and she did not see my daughter was coming, she had not right to shout at my child until she cried after my daughter apologised and if I see her again I will say it to her.

bohsboy

Great post,

I'm sick and tired of these activity centres, the parents who couldn't care less what their kids are up to and the teenage staff who have no interest.

A few months back my son was being beaten up by a child three of four years older than him at a local activity centre. I had to intervene and take him away, this brat followed us, and threatened the two of us! He couldn't have been more than seven. Completely unprovoked as "Mammy" leafed through her Hello magazine. I had to tell the child four times to keep away before I approached the mother and asked her to have a word with her "darling" son. She played the angel story, stating that he must have been provoked. I left the area and the manager gave me a wry grin, "boys will be boys".

Eventually on a wet day a few weeks on I relented and went again, this time with his little sister. Another group of unsupervised kids were there causing absolute mayhem. His sister had an accident and I had to go into the toilet for all of two minutes, when I arrived back my little fella was white in the face with a huge claw mark across his face where he was scratched by one of these kids, again for nothing.

I didn't even bother to make a scene and we left again. Our rainy days will be spent in the house now painting or doing something else a bit more fun.

These places are poorly run with the local teenage staff listening to Tiesto on their mobiles and parents that feel once they've paid in their responsibility ends there.

Ludo

mohawk wrote: »

Speaking as the mother of a toddler I wouldnt let my little man play with older kids that I dont know as a small child can get hurt easily by accident. Activity centres usually have areas for the smaller ones and that is where they belong IMO

Bang on. Toddler should not have been there...

smelltheglove wrote: »

I do not believe anyone has a right to discipline another persons child without their consent.

While I agree with most of your post, I cannot agree with this sweeping statement. Most people are afraid to say boo to kids other than their own these days in case angry parents threatening them. Things weren't like that when I grew up. If we stepped out of line in school or in the locality we knew we would get a bollicking from adults when we deserved it. That doesn't seem to happen anymore.

edit: should have read thread further..saw your reply later to someone who made same point as me. Fair enough I guess.

The Big Red Button

smelltheglove wrote: »

I would have backed my daughter up on the occasion above, it was an accident, people in our area are well aware the kids go up and down the path on their bikes, everytime I pull out of the drive I look for kids, if I walk out of the house I will look out for kids, this lady walked straight out of a garden, big bushes either side so my daughter could not see she was coming and she did not see my daughter was coming, she had not right to shout at my child until she cried after my daughter apologised and if I see her again I will say it to her.

To be fair. Footpaths are for pedestrians, not for bicycles. Whether the cyclist is a child or an adult is irrelevant. The woman was entitled to be angry. Although in my opinion she should have taken up the matter with the parents rather than with the child.

It's all well and good saying that local people are "aware" that people cycle on the footpaths, but at the end of the day the onus is on the cyclist to watch out for pedestrians/cars exiting driveways. If your daughter crashed straight into a pedestrian, who is to say it won't be into a car next time? With, potentially, much more serious consequences for your daughter? Perhaps the woman's anger was out of concern for your daughter's safety.

metrovelvet

It's about knowing a proportional and age appropriate response to the situation at hand. Impossible to make a blanket policy.

The man in the op sounds like a bully who over reacted.

There are so many shouldn't have variables to start with, the toddler shouldnt have been there, the 7 year old shouldn't have pushed him, the staff and parents shouldnt have been negligent, yadda yadda, that it can be chalked up to a collective adult irresponsibility.

Bill2673

it comes down to respect....do you respect children or not.

would the man in the OP have spoken to an adult in the same way? a grown adult his own size who might have thumped him one back?

but ya know what: lots of people grow up in circumstances where violence, shouting, aggression are the norm. And then when they grow up and have children, it is still the norm, for them.

Its not right, its not nice, but thats the way it is.

Bill2673

As a matter of interest, what age range do these places cater for?

Should they be allowed mix toddlers in with 8 year olds, given the type of activities involved.

LegacyUser

Bill2673 wrote: »

it comes down to respect....do you respect children or not.

would the man in the OP have spoken to an adult in the same way? a grown adult his own size who might have thumped him one back?

but ya know what: lots of people grow up in circumstances where violence, shouting, aggression are the norm. And then when they grow up and have children, it is still the norm, for them.

Its not right, its not nice, but thats the way it is.

But equally (though less applicable in this situation), do children respect adults or not?

In many cases they don't, as we tend to go in for child adoration in this country a lot...in comparison to European countries, where a standard of behaviour is expected of a child in public, and if they're are behaving like tyrants, somebody else will let them know about it. Or let you know about it.

The toddler shouldn't have been in with the bigger kids, and the dad shouldn't have been bellowing like that. The worse part however, is that this behaviour is not that unusual on the part of many parents and children in this country.

kezimus

I work weekends in a toystore and I regularly have to have words with children, their parents head off into the DIY store next door and leave the kids there to play with the wheeled toys. The kids see it as a playground and fly around the store on bikes and Flikers, forcing customers to jump out of the way. They've often knocked over toddlers that are wandering along beside their parents. I think it's awful that some parents just abandon their kids in the store, but the worst ones are the ones who watch while their kids wreak havoc!

the_syco

chatterpillar wrote: »

To be fair. Footpaths are for pedestrians, not for bicycles. Whether the cyclist is a child or an adult is irrelevant. The woman was entitled to be angry. Although in my opinion she should have taken up the matter with the parents rather than with the child.

WTF? Kids should stay off the road until they know the basic rules of the road, end of. Do you honestly think that kids at the age of 7, some barely able to stay on the bike, should be allowed on the road? They'd be road kill in no time. If I'm driving through estates, I often have to drive as slow as my car can go without stalling, as kids will run across the road. Now imagine one on a bike?

As for the woman, she should look either way. Next time she could get in the way of a jogger. Again she'd yell, but the jogger may be bigger, and yell back. It's common sense to look both ways of coming out of a concealed entrance.

smelltheglove

chatterpillar wrote: »

To be fair. Footpaths are for pedestrians, not for bicycles. Whether the cyclist is a child or an adult is irrelevant. The woman was entitled to be angry. Although in my opinion she should have taken up the matter with the parents rather than with the child.

It's all well and good saying that local people are "aware" that people cycle on the footpaths, but at the end of the day the onus is on the cyclist to watch out for pedestrians/cars exiting driveways. If your daughter crashed straight into a pedestrian, who is to say it won't be into a car next time? With, potentially, much more serious consequences for your daughter? Perhaps the woman's anger was out of concern for your daughter's safety.

I dont think shouting repeatedly until a child cries while waving your hands in the air concern. It was not only my daughter who was upset about the situation but also her friends. I wouldnt mind if the woman had told her off and told her to cycle on the road, fair enough but to repeatedly shout at her until she cried is bang out of order and in my opinon bullying. She wasnt going fast enough for the woman to even loose her balance, never mind be knocked over.

Woddle

smelltheglove wrote: »

I do not believe anyone has a right to discipline another persons child without their consent.

I actually agree with this and I would have a huge problem if any adult stranger went over and started talking to my kids. I teach my kids about not talking to strangers and to me this would be bordering on a mixed message, now my eldest are 6 and 4 so I'm talking mainly from that age of view.
I would prefer if the adult stranger sought me out and relayed his thoughts to me.
I must add the only time we visit these places is for other kids birthdays and even that I'm on the scene the whole time, they are never left on their own to be supervised by teenagers.

cruizer22b

spurious wrote: »

Where was goalie's mom when all this was happening?
She could have intervened just as much as 'angry' dad.
I doubt goalie will push a smaller child again in a hurry though.

Exactly. Good lesson. Although if someone spoke to my kid like that id lose it.

Wantobe

This thread reminds me of the time I brought my then 3 year old to a playground in Limerick. She was on the swings when another little girl came in with her mum. Mum proceeded to go to the bench nearby and rang someone. Her little girl seemed to take a shine to mine and she was hanging around a bit. When mine didn't notice her she started picking up stones and throwing them at her. So I said to her to stop- nicely at first, but then she picked up a big stone and threw it right at mine and I panicked a bit and shouted at her to stop. Just once, out of surprise. THEN her mum looked up and started shouting at me, no right to talk to her child like that, blah blah. Some people are totally unreasonable. I got a fright, she wasnt paying attention to her own child and yes, I shouted and I shouldnt have, but really, I did not want her child to throw a big stone at mine and what else can you do>? I never went back to that playground.

metrovelvet

There's a difference between correcting a child and abusing them.

Neither the seven year old or the grown man knew the difference and all the other adults sat on their asses and let it happen.

username123

No adult should lose control and shout at and frighten a child who doesnt know them (or indeed one who does - but just focusing on strager interaction here).

Adults need to be aware that children are told not to speak to strangers, so it is doubly frightening for a child because they are breaking the 'no stranger talking' rule to listen to a strange adult, who is shouting at them!!

I have no problem with an adult making a calm comment to a child, 'please dont push children smaller than you', 'please be careful cycling on the path' etc..., but to get involved in any level of interaction beyond that is not on and Id be extremely annoyed if I was the parent of a child who was subjected to any shouting or anger from a strange adult.

Mr Cawley

i've a prob with the parent losing the rag BUT we don't know how he saw the push-not a defence just trying to achieve a balance

the parent losing the rag SEEMED to over- react. if this was the case I echo the points about parents' infallible children. was the parent sensitive to the smaller stature of his/her child?

Was there malice in the goalies push? was it justified? should a parent (berate (unconrtollably)) a stange child?

could this business operate more stictly?

Mr Cawley

metrovelvet wrote: »

There's a difference between correcting a child and abusing them.

Neither the seven year old or the grown man knew the difference and all the other adults sat on their asses and let it happen.

fair and focused point, i agree

might you consider the short timescale? but if you mean the reluctance of parents to exercise fair principles in a prompt fashion, that may also be a consideration

crofty28

Hi all

I don't believe other people should ever shout at some1 elses child. I would never do this & would not find it acceptable at all if some1 shouted at 1 of my kids. Now obviously, at times, you may have to ask a child to stop whatever they're doing, eg. in a play centre or playground, but shouting is just a no no. The poor little girl was just cycling her bike, it sounds like a simple accident, that most kids will have at some stage or another. I would have lost the plot altogether if this was my little 1.

pickarooney

I think it's kind of sad that parents don't allow their children to talk to strangers. How are they ever supposed to meet new people?

smelltheglove

Children should not be talking to strange adults unsupervised, its for their safety, and adults who do not know children should be well aware that children are taught this by their parents for safety. Of course its realistic that children will speak to other children to make friends but why would a 6 or 7 yr old child need to speak to a 30 year old adult?

pickarooney

It's not a question of whether they 'need' to talk to an adult but I would find it very sad if my kids were to treat all adults with some sort of suspicion and curb their natural inclination to talk to anyone and everyone they meet. I don't understand exactly what harm simply speaking to someone is supposed to do.

Bill2673

To be fair, I think the type of incident described in the OP is extremely rare. Not at all typical of society in Ireland today. Or at least the part of society I live in (Cabra East).

mariebeth

To be fair, I think the dad was in the wrong in the first place leaving the 2 year old in the area when there were so many bigger kids in there. I know he was watching, but still, there are designated areas for younger kids in these places.