Junkies in city centre [MOD WARNING POST #331]

prinz

Bill2673 wrote: »

Thats classy.
If it was your son/daughter/sister/brother/mother/father/friend, I'd say you'd take a different view.

Having two of the above mentioned needing ongoing medical attention through no fault of their own, and seeing them left in waiting rooms/on trolleys/being told to come back in 6 weeks etc, and watching while some drunk tart or zombie junkie gets treated ahead of them, tbh I couldn't care less if you think that position is classy or not, I'd gladly step over a junkie on the street.

JosDel

prinz wrote: »

Having two of the above mentioned needing ongoing medical attention through no fault of their own, and seeing them left in waiting rooms/on trolleys/being told to come back in 6 weeks etc, and watching while some drunk tart or zombie junkie gets treated ahead of them, tbh I couldn't care less if you think that position is classy or not, I'd gladly step over a junkie on the street.

Would you gladly step over your brother or sister if they were in the gutter ?

prinz

JosDel wrote: »

Would you gladly step over your brother or sister if they were in the gutter ?

Seeing as how neither are junkies, no.

If they were probably not, but then again how I treat my immediate family ha sno bearing on how I'd treat some random stranger. I'm not going to give a stranger on the street a Mother's Day card either.

JosDel

prinz wrote: »

Seeing as how neither are junkies, no.

If they were probably not, but then again how I treat my immediate family ha sno bearing on how I'd treat some random stranger. I'm not going to give a stranger on the street a Mother's Day card either.

Some of the board members are not as fortunate as you who does not have a drug problem in the family..

prinz

JosDel wrote: »

Some of the board members are not as fortunate as you who does not have a drug problem in the family..

..and? Do I now owe a duty of care to them their family members who I may or may not see in the gutter?

Degsy

JosDel wrote: »

agree 100% with you Bill...Still have not heard any of these know alls coming up with any intelligent solutions to the situation in the city

Swamp the area with gardai..stop these bastards peddling thier poison on the streets..zero tolerance for dealers,users and public intoxication..make begging a criminal offence again and have minimum sentences for dealing..ten years.
Legalise abortion/sterilisation and put their kids into care..they dont deserve to have children..all they do is condemn them to a life of future misery.

And get rid of these "TREATMENT CENTRES"..we're paying thier fcucking dole,why should they deserve free drugs as well?

Society has gone too bloody soft with the PC brigade(who dont live in high-crime,high junkie areas) dictating policy to the guards and the judiciary.

You stick a needle in your arm voluntarily its a decision you have to live with,you get strung out its not like you werent warned...its not a sickness in teh way cancer or MS or something you have no control over is a sickness..its a self-inficted lifestyle choice that the taxpayer is paying for right across teh board.

Bill2673

prinz wrote: »

Having two of the above mentioned needing ongoing medical attention through no fault of their own, and seeing them left in waiting rooms/on trolleys/being told to come back in 6 weeks etc, and watching while some drunk tart or zombie junkie gets treated ahead of them, tbh I couldn't care less if you think that position is classy or not, I'd gladly step over a junkie on the street.

Thats fair enough; I can understand why you'd be angry.

Esel

"Wouldn't you?"

An insight into addiction: 'Naked Lunch' by William Burroughs. Banned here for a long time; somewhat dated now. Surreal, but hilariously funny in parts (imo). The movie of the same name, written and directed by David Cronenberg, is only loosely based on the book - it's more the story of Burrough's life around the time he wrote the book.

Read this excerpt from the book, on 'The Algebra of Need' bolding mine.

Junk yields a basic formula of "evil" virus: The Algebra of Need. The face of "evil" is always the face of total need. A dope fiend is a man in total need of dope. Beyond a certain frequency need knows absolutely no limit or control. In the words of total need: "Wouldn't you?" Yes you would. You would lie, cheat, inform on your friends, steal, do anything to satisfy total need. Because you would be in a state of total sickness, total possession, and not in a position to act in any other way. Dope fiends are sick people who cannot act other than they do. A rabid dog cannot choose but bite. Assuming a self-righteous position is nothing to the purpose unless your purpose be to keep the junk virus in operation.

Argue all you want about the why and the how. Pontificate all you like about how superciliously you view the 'problem'. Sure, "I'd never find myself in that situation."

But, if you did, then - Yes, you would......

arybvtcw0eolkf

Lads, keep the discussion to the problems junkies are causing in Dublin city centre please.

It's not in the remit of this forum to find a 'cure' for drug addiction, 'nor are we qualified to debate the legalities of legalizing drugs - there are other, more qualified forum to discuss these things.

Some other things - the term 'Junkie', it's causing people some problems - tough, its staying. Some use it as a derogatory term, most use it as a general term to describe a drug addict. This is not open to debate - the word 'junkie' stays.

Photos and video's, there's been a warning and a rough guideline posted in the thread. I'll repeat it again for the ignorant - so long as there is no personal identifying information in the video or photograph, post up & use some 'cop-on'.

While its not against the forum's charter to be an idiot, saying you'd rather step over a dying junkie on the street and other sh*t talk like that makes you look like one.. vBulletin software doesn't provide a 'cop-on to yourself' button, your gonna have to bang your own head off the wall for that one!.

'Vigilante' talk - taking the law into your own hands is illegal, and idiotic (see above) and against the forum's charter.. Unlike the idiot thing I spoke about above, we do have a hard and fast rule on advocating breaking the law - if your unclear on this I'd suggestion you read the charter.

Continue...

ordinary_girl

Degsy wrote: »

Fcucking scrote..its the middle of the day for fcucks sake..why should ordinary shoppers or people going to work or whatever have to see him..i'm sure he'd be more than a little intimidating to a woman or elderly person.

I've seen enough junkies out of it when I've been in town and when they're high I've never found them that intimidating, sure usually they have difficulty keeping their balance. It's when the drugs wear off when it's a bit unnerving.

And I agree with a previous poster, the ILAC seems to have a lot of drug addicts around in comparison to other parts of town. Depressingly, it's just something I and most other people who live in Dublin I'm sure, have become accustomed to.

southsiderosie

Bill2673 wrote: »

Part of the reason for the drug problem in Ireland is that Irish people have never really cared about the Poor and most marginalised people in society; and judging by this thread that is largely still the case. Shift them on so that the tourists won't be upset.

That's bull****. There are plenty of countries in the world where there are millions of poor people that the state doesn't give a **** about, yet you don't see open-air drug markets along the main streets of their cities. Not to mention the fact that the Irish welfare system is unbelievable generous, especially to people who haven't worked a day in their lives. Part of the reason for the drug problem is that the state does little to nothing to curtail drug dealing.

As I said before, I don't give a **** about tourists. Part of the reason why people are angry is because it seems like the rights of criminals are being put ahead of the rights of law-abiding people going to work. It really pisses me off to see drug dealing in front of the Tara Dart station or the Abbey Theater - the fact that is so ****ing obvious shows that these people have no respect for the law or their fellow citizens. AND THE GUARDS DO NOTHING.

JosDel wrote: »

Some of the board members are not as fortunate as you who does not have a drug problem in the family..

I have people in my family with drug problems; my father has, on more than one occasion, dragged one of my cousins out of a crack house. Yet despite family support and state-subsidized treatment, none of them have seen fit to stay clean. Being an addict is a pitiful condition, but I lose all pity at the point where people are thieving, neglecting their kids, or otherwise putting others at risk.

That said, I think that Ireland needs to get serious about cracking down on the dealers. If I were queen for a day, I would stop the revolving-door madness of the court systems - anyone who has ONE prior drug dealing offense who gets picked up again should be held WITHOUT BAIL - these ****ers should not be on the streets. Maybe a Portugal-style program would work for addicts, but I think there is a broader issue of what to do with dealers (who in an ideal world would be tarred and feathered, but that's just my opinion). At a bare minimum, they need to be kept off the streets.

Nolanger

southsiderosie wrote: »

THE GUARDS DO NOTHING.

Why should they when they're mostly from the country and don't give a sh*t about our capital city?

arybvtcw0eolkf

Nolanger wrote: »

Why should they when they're mostly from the country and don't give a sh*t about our capital city?

Sigh :rolleyes:

evercloserunion

Nolanger wrote: »

Why should they when they're mostly from the country and don't give a sh*t about our capital city?

A slightly less stupid question to ask would be, what can they do? They can and do move people along when they are pushing or even just loitering in public places. I imagine trying to arrest and imprison a lot of them would be a waste of time as it would be difficult to successfully prosecute and probably no prison space to keep them. What they certainly can't do is make the choice, on behalf of a junkie, to clean up their life.

I was walking down O'Connell St today and I saw two Gardaí, a man and a woman, talking to an alcoholic sitting by one of the statues. He was off his face, they were trying to persuade him to move on I guess. Eventually he got up to leave and the female Garda gave him a hand but as soon he stood up he fell back over taking the poor Garda with him, I think she cracked her head off the pavement but I'm not sure. So then they had to put on their gloves and literally carry him away, he was a pretty big guy as well. They do this kinda thing every day, and I imagine where drugs are involved it can get a lot messier. That's not something I'd do for a city I didn't give a sh*t about!

southsiderosie

evercloserunion wrote: »

A slightly less stupid question to ask would be, what can they do? They can and do move people along when they are dealing, pushing or even just loitering in public places. I imagine trying to arrest and imprison a lot of them would be a waste of time as it would be difficult to successfully prosecute and probably no prison space to keep them. What they certainly can't do is make the choice, on behalf of a junkie, to clean up their life.

And herein lies the problem. If the guards want to tell someone who is drunk or stoned to move it along, that's one thing...but telling DEALERS to just move it along?!?!?! That's basically saying that it's ok! :mad:

evercloserunion

southsiderosie wrote: »

And herein lies the problem. If the guards want to tell someone who is drunk or stoned to move it along, that's one thing...but telling DEALERS to just move it along?!?!?! That's basically saying that it's ok! :mad:

Well okay, sorry, I've never seen a Garda tell a drug dealer to move along because he's dealing drugs. I probably shouldn't have included "dealing" in that. Even though dealing goes on not far from where a Garda might be walking, I doubt that Gardaí often actually see the dealing, as dealers would know how to keep it from them. I don't know what a Garda would do if he or she saw some actual dealing going on.

southsiderosie

evercloserunion wrote: »

Well okay, sorry, I've never seen a Garda tell a drug dealer to move along because he's dealing drugs. I probably shouldn't have included "dealing" in that. Even though dealing goes on not far from where a Garda might be walking, I doubt that Gardaí often actually see the dealing, as dealers would know how to keep it from them. I don't know what a Garda would do if he or she saw some actual dealing going on.

If the guards don't see the dealing then they are incompetent and need to be fired. It's THAT obvious. Just have some officers walk through the area like they are going to work or the theater and they will see it.

Frankly I'm surprised that they don't have special task forces to deal with this stuff...the only "special" garda action I've seen are roadblocks to check for people's registration & car/exhaust documentation outside of Dublin. I've seen more guards in the Wicklow mountains on a Saturday afternoon than on the quays during the morning rush hour, when the drug dealing in front of the Tara DART is hopping.

Max Power1

Bill2673 wrote: »

Thats classy.

If it was your son/daughter/sister/brother/mother/father/friend, I'd say you'd take a different view.

No

I would hope that all members of my family and circle of associates would be more intelligent than to inject themselves with chemicals purchased on a street corner. Especially the very first time - they werent addicted then, so why start?

spurious

I know at least one of the 'regular' boardwalk folk was born addicted, as I taught her mother. She never had a chance really. I'm amazed she's lived this long.

Cities like Manchester have a similar drug problem but you never see them while visiting. I suppose putting clinics in Dublin just a few streets from the city's main thoroughfare wasn't the smartest move.

spider_pig

junkies seem to be moving out of town there's one begging down at spar in fairview, not the useuall young fella that sits there with the blanket but some other older guy sitting there with his cup talking away on his mobile phoneout of his head
there's a Chinese garda on his way up to him now tho
id say he'll end up been arrested for given him abuse :pac:

underthetides

Apologies if it's already been posted, but Channel 4 are doing an excellent documentary on drug use and prohibition/legalisation at the moment.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/our-drugs-war/4od#3112494

19.37 - 20.39 in this link perfectly exemplifies why drugs need to be legalised, IMO.

And I agree with everyone that the situation in Dublin is ridiculous. It always seems to peak during the summer months for some reason. I was outside the Abbey Theatre the other day and couldn't believe the number of addicts around. It's no different south of the river, either - have seen lots around Dame Street, and open dealing on Pearse Street. Not unusual to see them inside Trinity either.

I have huge sympathy for drug addicts, I have to say. My best friend from primary school became a coke addict before she was 15. I've seen heartbreaking tv shows and read devastating books (eg: Rachael Keogh's 'Dying to Survive') and have always carried a lot of compassion for those struggling with addiction.

That doesn't mean I enjoy or feel comfortable being surrounded by addicts, though. I can't walk to my local Centra without encountering five or so junkies along the way. Same story with getting off my bus in town and walking to college, or heading to work out in the suburbs. Seeing people shooting up and occassionally getting threats and abuse because you happen to see dealing taking place (this happened to me on Dame St a while back) is not something I like to see incorporated into my average day.

I guess I'm like a lot of people here, have sympathy for those afflicted but patience is running out with the situation at the moment.

RMD

southsiderosie wrote: »

If the guards don't see the dealing then they are incompetent and need to be fired. It's THAT obvious. Just have some officers walk through the area like they are going to work or the theater and they will see it.

Frankly I'm surprised that they don't have special task forces to deal with this stuff...the only "special" garda action I've seen are roadblocks to check for people's registration & car/exhaust documentation outside of Dublin. I've seen more guards in the Wicklow mountains on a Saturday afternoon than on the quays during the morning rush hour, when the drug dealing in front of the Tara DART is hopping.

Because the Gards are so underfunded right now there's little point in prioritsing some junkies dealing on the Quays. The vast majority of the "deals" done on the Quays / Talbot / Abbey / Marlborough street regions aren't done by dealers but instead pushers. The vast majority of these pushers themselves are addicts and little can be done by the Gards to them. They arrest them and all that will happen is they'll be given a court date in the future which they most likely wont even show upto, then a warrant is issued and *if* they are then found for that they'll most likely get a suspended sentence.

The easiest way to combat this problem is the method you don't see, tackling the medium and big time dealers, the ones providing the pushers the drugs. Arresting pushers will do nothing, 9/10 times a conviction wont be given and they're expendable to the dealers because there'll be plenty more from where they came from.

Don't blame the Gards, blame the poxy justice system and the retards in control of this country who've decided to cut Gardai numbers and funding.

prinz

Darius Stocky Tulip wrote: »

While its not against the forum's charter to be an idiot, saying you'd rather step over a dying junkie on the street and other sh*t talk like that makes you look like one.. vBulletin software doesn't provide a 'cop-on to yourself' button, your gonna have to bang your own head off the wall for that one!....

The thing with this one literally comes down to being able to tell what condition some of these people are in. I'd help anyone who was looking for medical assistance, but I have seen people down some of the lanes off Talbot St for instance sitting/lying amongst the bin bags etc, or propped up in doorways, they could be sleeping, dead, dying, enjoying a fix or whatever and no, not a hope would I go and try to rouse them to check if they needed an ambulance or anything else.

I've been on a No. 4 bus about 2 years ago when a young fella was stumbling around the place, eventually he collapsed, people told driver, driver called harristown, arranged gardaí and ambulance to meet the bus, the ambulance lads came and brought the lad around while the rest of us were waiting for another bus. There we were standing outside the OLV Church in Ballymun, listening to yer man screaming and roaring at the ambulance me to 'get the f*** away from me, don't f****ing touch me, f*** off and leave me alone' etc etc. After a few minutes out he walked on his own steam, adamant that he wasn't going with them anywhere. There were the rest of us, having to wait for a replacement bus, squad car with a couple of guards and an ambulance. It struck me then and there what a waste of resources the whole thing was, especially when you have experience of calling for an ambulance in a real emergency and having to wait... and you can't help but wonder are they out dealing with some prat like that.

00112984

I've lived in the city centre for 7 years within easy walking distance of the quays and have worked in the area too.

I'm lucky in the sense that I don't have to spend too much time walking amongst junkies but I do keep a bit smart about the whole thing- wouldn't walk around with my phone to my ear or my handbag dangling, would never open my bag/wallet to give someone cash on the street etc. but I've still had a few experiences with junkies so I'm going to share

I used to get lunch in a certain branch of an Irish supermarket that offered Valu that was Super on Aston Quay. Every day, the queue for the deli/sandwich/noodle bat would be halfway out the door but junkies constantly skipped ahead to ask the deli staff for strips of tin foil which they were immediately given. I became friendly with a member of staff and asked him one day why they provided junkies with tin foil and attracting them into the shop and he told he it was a thing they allowed as it cut down hugely on the amount of bars of standard Cadbury bars being stolen every day- junkies stealing the bar, using the foil and dumping the chocolate.

***

One dark December evening in 2008, I was walking from Capel St. along Mary St. to get to Henry St. after work and was surrounded by four older junkies. It was dark and the street was pretty empty so I went on the defensive, holding my bag closer into me, put my head down, said "sorry lads, I don't carry cash" and kept walking. But they followed me.

The head junkie gets in front of me so I have to stop and says "a'righ love, can you spell "needle"?"
I got a bit of a fright (I read far too much crime and was imagining the next line would be "now, can you spell "robbery with a "") so said "what?!". Again, he repeated "can you spell needle? My friend over there (points to another junkie who was standing a few feet away at this stage" sez it's n-e-i-d-l-e but I think it's n-e-e-d-l-e. Which one of us is right?"

I'm a complete pedant so pointed out that he was correct with his n-e-e-d-l-e. He said thanks and I was about to walk off when curiosity got the better of me so I turned back and asked why he needed to know. A third junkie, very shyly, produces a white sheet of paper and a pen and says "ah, we're filling out a form" and they all walked off happily. :cool:

***

A couple of weeks ago, I was standing on Drury St. with my dog (the one in my sig) waiting on my husband who was in a shop. The dog was on a lead and a completely strung out young junkie came up and asked me for change. I said I had nothing on me and he did the usual "yizzer alright luv" bit and wobbled off. A minute later he came back to me and said (I can't type junkie) "If I can't have change, can I have the dog?" and petted her head. I laughed and he said "I'm serious, I'll get more begging with a dog". I told him to get a cat, to be a bit original like. :P

ria5000

southsiderosie wrote: »

If the guards don't see the dealing then they are incompetent and need to be fired. It's THAT obvious. Just have some officers walk through the area like they are going to work or the theater and they will see it.

Frankly I'm surprised that they don't have special task forces to deal with this stuff...the only "special" garda action I've seen are roadblocks to check for people's registration & car/exhaust documentation outside of Dublin. I've seen more guards in the Wicklow mountains on a Saturday afternoon than on the quays during the morning rush hour, when the drug dealing in front of the Tara DART is hopping.

the guards in store street wear high visibility jackets at all times so anyone selling/supplying drugs sees the guards coming a mile away. theres lots of plain clothes guards in that area aswell, EVERY SINGLE DAY. you wouldnt notice them because they dont have a large GARDA sign written on their back. lots and lots of arrests are made in store street every day for drug offences, lots of them from the marlborough street area. unless you're on marlborough street area 24 hours a day then you wouldnt see this and you shall continue in your ignorant opinion that the garda do nothing!!

arybvtcw0eolkf

prinz wrote: »

The thing with this one literally comes down to being able to tell what condition some of these people are in.

First of when someone says something this idiotic..

FWIW if I saw a junkie dying on the street, there wouldnt be a hope in hell that Id call an ambulance - waste of public money and valuable services that could go to a worthy cause and not to someone inflicting such abuse on themselves.

I feel safe in making the assumption he knew someone was dying, if anyone ignore's another human dying anywhere they're no different to the people your trying your damnest to look down upon and I certainly won't be applauding that quality (or lack of) in a person.

And this isn't open to discussion, the rules in this thread are very liberal - if someone again says they'd ignore & step over a dying person I'll make the assumption they knew that person was dying and I'll ban them from here permanently, because thats not the type of person we want posting in this forum - take that bullsh*t to AH if you all want, but it won't be tolerated here - furthermore I'm notifying the other moderator's of this post and advising them to act accordingly.

Any further discussion on this matter can be done via PM's.

Bill2673

southsiderosie wrote: »

That's bull****. There are plenty of countries in the world where there are millions of poor people that the state doesn't give a **** about, yet you don't see open-air drug markets along the main streets of their cities. Not to mention the fact that the Irish welfare system is unbelievable generous, especially to people who haven't worked a day in their lives. Part of the reason for the drug problem is that the state does little to nothing to curtail drug dealing.

Really where are they?

I've seen people shooting up in the street plenty of times outside Ireland. Last year I saw several junkies in a group shooting up in a train station outside Oslo. Have seen it in Germany, US, UK, Italy, India also, for example.

Bill2673

southsiderosie wrote: »

That's bull****. There are plenty of countries in the world where there are millions of poor people that the state doesn't give a **** about, yet you don't see open-air drug markets along the main streets of their cities. Not to mention the fact that the Irish welfare system is unbelievable generous, especially to people who haven't worked a day in their lives. Part of the reason for the drug problem is that the state does little to nothing to curtail drug dealing.

As I said before, I don't give a **** about tourists. Part of the reason why people are angry is because it seems like the rights of criminals are being put ahead of the rights of law-abiding people going to work. It really pisses me off to see drug dealing in front of the Tara Dart station or the Abbey Theater - the fact that is so ****ing obvious shows that these people have no respect for the law or their fellow citizens. AND THE GUARDS DO NOTHING.

Sorry pal, but you've really contradicted yourself there.....you're saying on the one hand that the Guards to nothing, and that the state does nothing.....but the prevalence of the drug problem has nothing to do with the apathy of the people? Sorry now.....but believe it or believe not.....the guards do what the state tells them, and the state (govt) does what it needs to do to win votes. When has the drug problem in Dublin or Ireland ever been an election issue in this country? i rest my case.

Pace2008

Bill2673 wrote: »

Really where are they?

Saudi Arabia, the gold standard in legal terms for which every country should aim.

cosmic

Was in Smithfield yesterday at lunch going to the Motor Tax Office and I was surprised at how many of them there were down there. I wouldn't normally be in the square during the day so I wouldn't know what it's generally like around then, maybe it was the warm weather, but the place was teeming with them.