Junkies in city centre [MOD WARNING POST #331]

Fuinseog

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Does anyone else notice Junkiees buying small cartons of milk in spars/centras?

I was on O'Connell street Thursday night and was buying stuff in the londis and spar. I noticed about 3-4 junkiees separately come in and buy pint cartons of milk. The plastic bottle ones.

By the look of them, I don't think they could stomach much milk so is there some other reason they bought those cartons?

whow, they are nearly like normal people. did it ever occur to you that milk is cheap and nourishing and that junkies have to eat and drink as well.

on the plus side, the old heroin is a great way to lose weight.

people here seem to be critical of junkies on the streets, yet have no problem with the likes of Russell Brand, who by his own admission was a junkie (oh wait junkie is only someone short of cash).

walk up grafton street at night and you will see plenty of middle class teens off their heads, acting the maggot. the difference is that they do not know their limits.

Degsy

gollem_1975 wrote: »

I found it useful because I haven't seen all those thousands of other programs and found that it humanised the people he was interviewing. they are all someones son ( mainly seem to be men affected - why is that I wonder )
the "Tag" guy , If I saw him on the street I would not have thought he was a junkie/homeless person at all.

The guy who did the video is called Karl Deeter.

I can't say objectively if he does or doesn't sound uninformed,patronising and downright annoying , Its all subjective , some people might find your posts to be uninformed,patronising and downright annoying whilst some might think your posts are useful.

Hello Karl..
That youtube thing was terrible.
Must try harder...or maybe trying too hard.

Gummy Panda

Fuinseog wrote: »

whow, they are nearly like normal people. did it ever occur to you that milk is cheap and nourishing and that junkies have to eat and drink as well.

Well if you read my post i did consider that but by looking at them it seemed it would be hard for them to stomach it considering they looked very malnourished.

gollem_1975

Degsy wrote: »

Hello Karl..
That youtube thing was terrible.
Must try harder...or maybe trying too hard.

I'm not Karl (Mortgagebroker)

I respect the guy as being one of the only media commentators during the Celtic Tiger who was saying that the property boom in this country was going to end badly.
Mortgagebroker and some other posters on boards.ie, thepropertypin.com and askaboutmoney.com helped saved me a load of money by convincing me not to buy.

some info.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=57027294&postcount=4

of all the sh1te that is on youtube , that clip is far far far away from being the worst.

sounded to me like you took issue with it because the guy who filmed it wasn't au fait with the slang and lingo on the streets.

You're entitled to your opinion.

evercloserunion

Fuinseog wrote: »

whow, they are nearly like normal people. did it ever occur to you that milk is cheap and nourishing and that junkies have to eat and drink as well.

on the plus side, the old heroin is a great way to lose weight.

people here seem to be critical of junkies on the streets, yet have no problem with the likes of Russell Brand, who by his own admission was a junkie (oh wait junkie is only someone short of cash).

walk up grafton street at night and you will see plenty of middle class teens off their heads, acting the maggot. the difference is that they do not know their limits.

What are you talking about, if Russell Brand came up to me harassing me for change or if I almost slipped in a puddle of his vomit I'd be every bit as annoyed. Get off that high horse.

Also regarding "middle class" teens, don't try turn this into a class thing, there are plenty of middle class and upper class junkies, and not all poor people do heroin. Also are you implying that heroin addicts know their limits any more than wasted teenagers?

youcrazyjesus!

Good thread. Covering old ground here I'm sure...

I have huge sympathy for those locked into such a terrible addiction. I'd like to see more of my tax money going into treatment options for addicts, such as they are. But that doesn't mean I'd open my front door and invite addicts in to my house nor would I allow them hang around outside my front door taking drugs. Why do we expect business owners, workers on the front line and ordinary citizens to put up with it just because it's Dublin city centre?

Sympathy and understanding doesn't come into it. It's an absolute disgrace what's become of our city, it must look absolutely appalling to tourists to see so many junkies shuffling around the place. Tourists can very easily be intimidated too.

I resent being asked for cash 10-20 times in a single evening if I'm out and about in town and the boardwalk is safe but it's not pleasant. I keep my end of the bargain up in life and all I want at the end of the week is to enjoy a night out or a coffee outdoors without being pestered constantly for cash or having to watch dozens of people absolutely monged shuffling around the place. The aesthetic damage is does to the city can't be understated, we're not Paris but we've a very nice city centre. The increase in the numbers of junkies since the recession hit is worrying, it can only increase given how cheap heroin is now.

While I wouldn't hold your average Garda on the beat responsible for inaction of the organisation as a whole but the attitude they give off in the thread Degsy linked to is very poor. I get the impression they want to get in, do their shift and then go home again with the minimum of fuss. There wasn't even any expression of remorse or guilt for the lack of action on this issue. It would have been nice to hear something like "yeah I'd love to sort it out but I'm only one man and it's needs coordination between stations and other authorities", instead we read comment after comment of complete abdication of responsibility for it and strong criticism and a dismissive attitude towards people for having the nerve to bring it up, which I find shocking.

As has been pointed out in response to posters saying Gardaí have more than the drug issue to deal with in the city, surely a lot of the crime they go to investigate is drug related. If there were significant efforts and resources put into eliminating street dealing and the use by junkies of the boardwalk and alleyways along the Red Luas line as one giant outdoor drugs den it would disperse the users, forcing them elsewhere and hopefully towards a trend of finding somewhere indoors to use or at least out of the busy city centre. It's very difficult to police so many drug users in the 1 place.

Contrast the attitude of Gardaí in the city centre to Gardaí at a music festival where they have easy prey. Some otherwise straight laced kid smoking a joint gets a criminal conviction preventing him from travelling and working anywhere in the world while dealers and users walk around with impunity right under the noses of Gardaí in a busy city centre that relies on tourism for hundreds if not thousands of jobs. The hypocrisy of that contrast is difficult to stomach.

No individual can do much about it but collectively business owners and citizens should start hassling Gardaí, TD's, councillors, public health officials and media outlets and hopefully force the authorities of the State to do their jobs and resolve a public health and quality of life issue for a huge number of it's citizens. New York was incredibly violent and crime ridden but the will was there to do something about it and they cleaned it up with some simple ideas and a bit of elbow grease. I'm not sure if it's statistically true but I've never felt as safe in a big city as I did in Manhattan.

It seems that some Gardaí in the city are coordinating and getting up off their holes to do something about the issue in west Dublin, why can't this happen in the city centre where it's far easier to track and catch dealers?

Some basic things the Gardaí could be doing with existing resources from tomorrow morning:

1 - have 3 foot patrols constantly walking along the boardwalk. Share the load between all the city centre Garda stations so Store Street isn't left short. Use the Public Order Act to move pricks along. Confiscate any drink you find. Have the 3 patrols there constantly from 10am onwards.

2 - have 1 or 2 plain clothes teams seeking out and searching drug users wherever they find them. 2 teams working can get through an incredible number of users in the day. Seize their drugs even if arresting and charging them would be pointless. When it's not busy in the Garda station (eg not late at night when large numbers of people are pouring out of pubs) make them spend a few hours in the cell to mess up their day completely.

3 - start doing it themselves as a temporary measure and in the meantime get onto the Luas operators and ask them to spend a few extra quid on security Guards who will proactively stop scum flooding in to the city via a free ride on the Luas. Fine them like they would tax paying citizens. I see the Luas operators have posters up now encouraging people to call when they see vandalism, why not encourage them to call when they see fare dodging junkies who are heading into town to engage in the drugs trade.

3 basic steps to get the message out that the city centre is off limits to junkies, make it more hassle than it's worth for them to come into the city centre. It can be done easily and with existing resources. It just takes senior Gardaí to sit down with each other and come up with a basic plan.

I don't want to victimise junkies who come into the city centre, they have a sad life but they just be held to account on a basic level for the damage being done to the image of the city. If it was some Reclaim The Streets organisation or some other left wing group who congregated innocently on the boardwalk like that the Gardaí would be out in their droves intimidating people by taking names and invoking the Public Order Act so I don't see why drug users and dealers should get special dispensation to ruin the enjoyment of the city for the rest of us and tourists we rely on for thousands of jobs.

Clearing them out of the city centre doesn't solve the wider problem but that's another debate.

Esel

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Contrast the attitude of Gardaí in the city centre to Gardaí at a music festival where they have easy prey. Some otherwise straight laced kid smoking a joint gets a criminal conviction preventing him from travelling and working anywhere in the world while dealers and users walk around with impunity right under the noses of Gardaí in a busy city centre that relies on tourism for hundreds if not thousands of jobs. The hypocrisy of that contrast is difficult to stomach.

Good point. I agree wholeheartedly. And the mockies even get to attend the festival for free!

gollem_1975

evercloserunion wrote: »

What are you talking about, if Russell Brand came up to me harassing me for change or if I almost slipped in a puddle of his vomit I'd be every bit as annoyed. Get off that high horse.

Also regarding "middle class" teens, don't try turn this into a class thing, there are plenty of middle class and upper class junkies, and not all poor people do heroin. Also are you implying that heroin addicts know their limits any more than wasted teenagers?

Russell Brand (or a stereotypical "middle class" user) is unlikely to come up to you on the street harassing you for change or likely to consume his poison in a public place.

If the zombies on malboro street looked like Russell Brand or Katy Perry I don't think we'd be complaining either

gollem_1975

esel wrote: »

Good point. I agree wholeheartedly. And the mockies even get to attend the festival for free!

you would have to be very unlucky or very dumb to be collared at a festival ( but then again the "5-o" have their targets to meet )

if you were to compare figures on the amounts of people arrested or jailed for drugs offences I think you would see far more people on the list with a D1 address than a SoCoDu address.

Degsy

gollem_1975 wrote: »

if you were to compare figures on the amounts of people arrested or jailed for drugs offences I think you would see far more people on the list with a D1 address than a SoCoDu address.

Yeas but thats probably coz another conviction makes no difference to a full-time heroin addict or dealer.
Some poor bloke smoking a joint at a music festival who might actually have a career or a potential career suddenly finds himself treated like a criminal and convicted for it...to him it makes a very big deal indeed.

mikemac

Much the same happens on the Luas.
Your ordinary worker without a ticket gets fined, fair enough as that's the rules.

The aggressive junkies and tracksuit brigade don't get fined, they get put off the Luas and get the next one a few minutes later.

Who said easy targets?? :mad:

As said a drug conviction might get you barred from working abroad, it can destroy a persons dreams. So better be careful
But if you already have 29 convictions then no big deal to make it 30

Thepones

Got off the dart this morning and as i was crossing the road at the lights and unmarked car screamed up and jumped out to arrest some fella on a bike who looked to be dealing (I should say allegedly to be PC )

Was good to see. Was also funny to see the amount of users, dealers etc disperse at some speed!

gollem_1975

Degsy wrote: »

Yeas but thats probably coz another conviction makes no difference to a full-time heroin addict or dealer.
Some poor bloke smoking a joint at a music festival who might actually have a career or a potential career suddenly finds himself treated like a criminal and convicted for it...to him it makes a very big deal indeed.

well personally I am not convinced it is the right thing for any user to be at the risk of legal penalties but the law is the law and should be applied equally regardless of who has more to lose by getting pinched.

having camped at the EP a few years back it appeared to me that everything had been legalised overnight but I never got the memo..

Gardai arresting people for possesion at EP or Life would be like shooting fish in a barrel. You would have to be very unlucky.. and from what I have heard unluckier still for it to go to court.

your comment about the unfairness of the poor bloke caught smoking a J indicates that you are capable of empathy and have a sense of fairness on the other hand you seem to be a fully fledged member of the "hang em and flog em" brigade.
how many of these guys on malboro street ever got a chance in life to have a potential career (career outside of crime and living on state benefits ) ?
A previous poster (I think it was Spurious) mentioned that a lot of the people are children of the original addicts of the 1980's - they were probably born into it and never got a break.

law and order will not solve this problem.

Mr. Plow

Junkies caught the top of my car door and bent it out last year, I interrupted them, with a big 6 foot metal level . In fairness I was parked in one of the laneways off wicklow street, but still so annoying. Guards said they go down there to shoot up. They also sleep and urinate down there. The smell is overpowering

username123

Degsy wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzJjDYdELbs

Its absolutely DIRE..that interviewer putting on his bets Dubalin accent and displaying his utter lack of knowledge on the subject:
"So would ya be smokin it or chasin it or wha"?
'Smoking it'
"So spliffwise or chasin it"?

Spliffwise??What an utter tool.

He also talks about "mainlining" and "scag"

Then he asks a junkie how much is a "tag"..yer man says "A what?"..he then says "A bag..how much is a bag"...making up his own slang to sound cool.

A cretin.

It wasnt the interview style, accent of the interviewer or his knowledge of drug use slang that gave me reason to find the documentary interesting. It was the insight into the absolute horror of a life it is to be constantly on the go looking for the next fix (insert whatever slang you wish here to refer to said fix).

Ive rarely had a real conversation with a junkie, I see them on the streets, I try to avoid any contact with them, I find them personally frightening as they are not in a position to reason with and may be unpredictable. The documentary showed actual conversations with junkies, it humanised them in a way that I never see in day to day life - and I would imagine that most ordinary people dont have much ordinary human contact with junkies - so it was interesting to see people talking about their addiction in such a matter of fact, non threatening way.

That said, I didnt feel much sympathy for anyone in the video. It seemed to me that there was a lot of moaning about the help they needed and werent being given by the state. They seemed to have a sense of entitlement about someone else getting them clean. Some of them were offered help by friends or family and refused to take it. One guy was intent on blaming someone elses behaviour as the reason for his addiction. There always seemed to be an excuse for their own actions. So overall I thought it showed the skewed mindset of people refusing to take responsibility for themselves or their actions.

fontanalis

Thepones wrote: »

Got off the dart this morning and as i was crossing the road at the lights and unmarked car screamed up and jumped out to arrest some fella on a bike who looked to be dealing (I should say allegedly to be PC )

Was good to see. Was also funny to see the amount of users, dealers etc disperse at some speed!

Or because you're not psychic!

gollem_1975

username123 wrote: »

. So overall I thought it showed the skewed mindset of people refusing to take responsibility for themselves or their actions.

i.e. the mindset of an addict.

gollem_1975

fontanalis wrote: »

Or because you're not psychic!

he might have broken a red light.. pesky cyclists

Pace2008

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Well if you read my post i did consider that but by looking at them it seemed it would be hard for them to stomach it considering they looked very malnourished.

There is nothing else they'd be using it for. Milk is quite calorific and covers all the macronutrients. It's also easy to take on a bad stomach, which is perfect for a junkie as they'd often be sick and/or constipated. They might look malnourished but they're obviously eating some of the time.

gollem_1975

Pace2008 wrote: »

Milk is quite calorific and covers all the macronutrients. It's also easy to take on a bad stomach, which is perfect for a junkie as they'd often be sick and/or constipated.

Man, The Irish Dairy board should be paying you for this copy.

Fuinseog

Pace2008 wrote: »

There is nothing else they'd be using it for. Milk is quite calorific and covers all the macronutrients. It's also easy to take on a bad stomach, which is perfect for a junkie as they'd often be sick and/or constipated. They might look malnourished but they're obviously eating some of the time.

good to know. if the dairy Board reallz wanted to get zour attention with an ad they would use ajunkie.

I am fascinated by the amount of weight you can lose if you become a junkie. i mean russell brand, our sexy favourite junky is as thin as a rake.it proabablz works well with the milk.could be a new trend

Chaotic_Forces

The thing with not nicking a junkie and nicking someone that's "just having a joint and not hurting anyone" with the Gardaí is the following: who's more likely to kick up the place and scream bloody murder and claim every right under the sun and who's more likely to accept the ticket/fine and move on?

Last year coming out of the social welfare in Dublin 1 where it used to be I think it was Cumberland street, I saw a polish fella I think that two dublin one (typical skangers) fellas (I'm from Dublin one myself, so don't get any wrong ideas :P) basically saying he owes a few hundred, I couldn't do much, there was two of them, soon joined by another 2 fellas. So I left (I'm not risking a battering) and I saw a garda at the post office on parnell street and I told him. He said and I quote "Ah sure what can I do? I can't leave my post, best call the other guards (not gardaí...) to deal with it". So I paused and looked him up and down and said "are you ****ing serious mate, (i know, not the best idea, but I was in complete shock) you've got a radio, your man is about to get a hiding, you can get a car here in no time".
So his reply was "watch your mouth, don't think about swearing at me again".
I took about 3 steps back and said "if I calling you an effing idiot, would you arrest me?"
"of course I would" was the reply.
"So why can you leave your post for that but not to save someone from a hiding".
"move alone there" was the reply.*

The point is, it's easier dealing with someone that won't cause fuss.

*Mods, I have no problem with that garda, I was just pointing out it was easier to deal with me than the scum causing more trouble.

ph3n0m666

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11067028

evercloserunion

ph3n0m666 wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11067028

Hmm, that's an interesting article. I suppose the question is, the kind of people we have been talking about on this thread, would they bother trying to sort themselves out even if there wasn't a stigma attached to it? Also, I don't buy that the stigma results from the use of the word "junky" as opposed to the behaviour of these people. There are undoubtedly a lot of people out there who are seriously struggling with drug addiction and trying to sort themselves out. Far more damaging to these people is the perception of heroin users created by junkies walking down O'Connell Street strung out of their minds, harassing, stealing, pissing, puking, etc.

Also, LMFAO about not being allowed call them addicts.

Degsy

ph3n0m666 wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11067028

A load of PC-driven shiite.

If they dont want to be "stigmitised" as "junkies" then they should stop taking drugs..its really that simple..nobody is forcing them to stick needles in thier arms and nobody is forcing them to go the chemists either.

Whinging bastards.

Pace2008

Degsy wrote: »

A load of PC-driven shiite.

If they dont want to be "stigmitised" as "junkies" then they should stop taking drugs..its really that simple..nobody is forcing them to stick needles in thier arms and nobody is forcing them to go the chemists either.

Whinging bastards.

I've no reservations with calling them junkies, but this is a ridiculous oversimplification of chronic drug addiction.

Degsy

Pace2008 wrote: »

I've no reservations with calling them junkies, but this is a ridiculous oversimplification of chronic drug addiction.

Really?
Drug users=People who take drugs
Drug addicts=People who take drugs
Stop taking drugs=Neither Addict nor user.

So withdrawal is a bastard to go through..if they want to get clean then they can do it..the fact is that most of them dont want to give up..

I hear them on the bus all the time,all they talk about is getting this that and the other,seeing doctors,buying pills,getting phy etc etc..i've never heard one saying "i'm giving up the gear"...why should they?Its too easy to get.

But people will say "they have family problems..they have esteem issues blah blah blah.."

Dont we all?

Excuses heaped on excuses but its still thier choice to continue using.

Pace2008

Addicts should stop taking drugs.

Shy people should be confident.

Depressed people should cheer up.

Degsy

Pace2008 wrote: »

Addicts should stop taking drugs.

Shy people should be confident.

Depressed people should cheer up.

Why is it that almost every one of yoru posts on boards relates to drugs?

I get the feeling you're not being very objective on this matter..care to explain what your interest is?

Pace2008

Degsy wrote: »

Why is it that almost every one of yoru posts on boards relates to drugs?

I get the feeling you're not being very objective on this matter..care to explain what your interest is?

That post was highly presumptuous and fairly personal (not to mention entirely wrong) pre-edit, man.

I'm an accountant, and my income's solely derived from this. I just find the topic of drugs interesting, and since it's difficult to discuss it openly in public I take it to the internet.