Junkies in city centre [MOD WARNING POST #331]

zynaps

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

Addicts that have been hooked on it for years; fine... we can chalk that up to not knowing how bad they are. Addicts that are made now; don't lock thme up, use them as slave labour. If people don't care about themselves; neither should we.

Those last points are where we disagree. Have you ever known anybody who suffered from depression? Of course you have - maybe you yourself have been low now and then, I certainly have.

There are plenty of great people who, for often no good reason at all, feel awful about themselves, maybe hate themselves. Should we not care about them either? Of course we should! Think of all the people who commit suicide every year due to meaningless depression.

And your comparison with a teenager driving a car through Centra is a strawman. Nobody is suggesting that we should turn a blind eye to such activities and "coddle" the delinquent teen driver, because they knowingly endangered the lives of many other people for nothing.
OTOH, people getting into heroin are probably at a low point in their lives (although it's about to get much lower, maybe forever) and are really just destroying themselves.

Granted, it often leads towards disgusting behaviour to innocent people on the street, and there are many sickening cases of heroin addicts with children, leading to gross neglect or abuse, and in those cases we'll probably agree that the children should be taken away immediately for their own protection until the parents are fixed. But that's another issue.

Chaotic_Forces wrote:

Either let the little cu*ts accept it's their own fault or give every single junkie that gets made from now on a mansion and have regular joes cut their grass. It's backwards that we should feel sorry/help them. If you become an addict now; it's your own fault.

That argument is a false dilemma. Obviously there are more acceptable alternatives in between "let them rot" and "give them all a mansion and we cut their grass".
Obviously helping them has some chance of reducing the numbers of junkies, which I'm sure you will accept is a good thing.
Obviously we can't use them for slave labour or make them disappear.

So we can't use them for slave labour or lock them up forever or execute them. Failing those impossible options, your suggestion to let them rot (i.e. do nothing) will result in more junkies on our streets than if we did something to help them. Even if you don't care about them, helping them is the logical choice for everybody.

Chaotic_Forces

thebullkf wrote: »

some people don't know any better....ignorance is bliss.


not everybody survives rape. (mentally).

gladto hear it hasn't affected you.;)

True but let's face it, we all know that fire = dangerous. Shouldn't we all know that drugs are dangerous or is has society not reached that point yet?

zynaps wrote: »

Those last points are where we disagree. Have you ever known anybody who suffered from depression? Of course you have - maybe you yourself have been low now and then, I certainly have.

There are plenty of great people who, for often no good reason at all, feel awful about themselves, maybe hate themselves. Should we not care about them either? Of course we should! Think of all the people who commit suicide every year due to meaningless depression.

And your comparison with a teenager driving a car through Centra is a strawman. Nobody is suggesting that we should turn a blind eye to such activities and "coddle" the delinquent teen driver, because they knowingly endangered the lives of many other people for nothing.
OTOH, people getting into heroin are probably at a low point in their lives (although it's about to get much lower, maybe forever) and are really just destroying themselves.

Granted, it often leads towards disgusting behaviour to innocent people on the street, and there are many sickening cases of heroin addicts with children, leading to gross neglect or abuse, and in those cases we'll probably agree that the children should be taken away immediately for their own protection until the parents are fixed. But that's another issue.


That argument is a false dilemma. Obviously there are more acceptable alternatives in between "let them rot" and "give them all a mansion and we cut their grass".
Obviously helping them has some chance of reducing the numbers of junkies, which I'm sure you will accept is a good thing.
Obviously we can't use them for slave labour or make them disappear.

So we can't use them for slave labour or lock them up forever or execute them. Failing those impossible options, your suggestion to let them rot (i.e. do nothing) will result in more junkies on our streets than if we did something to help them. Even if you don't care about them, helping them is the logical choice for everybody.

Choosing to ruin your life because "it's a hard life" is a bit different from being depressed and ending it; either pick one choice: live or die. Not "ah sure like me mate ya know like scored me some gear like and like this and that" and who gives a fu*k? You don't want a live, forfit it so it benefits the rest of us.

zynaps

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

You don't want a live, forfit it so it benefits the rest of us.

Man, this is a bit like talking to a wall. Junkies are not going to forfeit their lives, even if you think they don't want it. So your suggestion to let them rot will not reduce the number of junkies on the streets. Having some mechanisms to support them and help them quit might reduce that number which will result in a better outcome for you, me, them and everybody else. Do you not agree with that?

Whether they're "scum" or "deserve" to rot/die/be slave labour is completely irrelevant.

Chaotic_Forces

zynaps wrote: »

Man, this is a bit like talking to a wall. Junkies are not going to forfeit their lives, even if you think they don't want it. So your suggestion to let them rot will not reduce the number of junkies on the streets. Having some mechanisms to support them and help them quit might reduce that number which will result in a better outcome for you, me, them and everybody else. Do you not agree with that?

Whether they're "scum" or "deserve" to rot/die/be slave labour is completely irrelevant.

Yes, it really is isn't it. Mainly because I've already explained that I feel this way only about the scum that choose to become junkies (it is a fu*king choice when we know if you take drugs there is a high chance of you being addicted, you choose to take them and choose to risk being addicted).

But of course, like everyone else you'll ignore that part and insist that it isn't a choice and we need to look after the little poor people who had no choice but to take drugs. :rolleyes:

zynaps

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

But of course, like everyone else you'll ignore that part and insist that it isn't a choice and we need to look after the little poor people who had no choice but to take drugs. :rolleyes:

Now you're being ridiculous. Where did I ever say that they had "no choice but to take drugs"? Don't be putting words in my mouth, it makes you look bad.

I agreed early on that starting to take heroin is tremendously stupid and basically throwing your life in the bin, as well as damaging those around you.
My point, which you are repeatedly ignoring, is that people are making that stupid choice, and we can either help to get them off drugs (which everybody, even you, should agree is a good thing) or leave them to rot as you suggest, meaning do nothing, which will not reduce the number of junkies.

So you are really arguing against reducing the number of junkies.

Chaotic_Forces

zynaps wrote: »

Now you're being ridiculous. Where did I ever say that they had "no choice but to take drugs"? Don't be putting words in my mouth, it makes you look bad.

I agreed early on that starting to take heroin is tremendously stupid and basically throwing your life in the bin, as well as damaging those around you.
My point, which you are repeatedly ignoring, is that people are making that stupid choice, and we can either help to get them off drugs (which everybody, even you, should agree is a good thing) or leave them to rot as you suggest, meaning do nothing, which will not reduce the number of junkies.

So you are really arguing against reducing the number of junkies.

Oh sorry, I was just reading your posts fully. See, I tend to do that; you don't. Otherwise you'd have no bothered to argue a point I never made...

Anyway: reduce? No! Horrible idea! Kill anyone who desires to become one is a better one.

spurious

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

Sigh... No, that's called shoving the blame elsewhere. If that's the case can I get pissed every night from when I was a child and blame my "hard" life? Or how about just robbing a bank and blaming the shop keeper being rude to me that morning, caused me to have a hard life that did.

No, why not go on boards and say a whole group of people should be 'killed' instead.

Chaotic_Forces

spurious wrote: »

No, why not go on boards and say a whole group of people should be 'killed' instead.

Well if you want to ruin your life; you should be put to work as a slave, at least that's something useful.

thebullkf

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

Well if you want to ruin your life; you should be put to work as a slave, at least that's something useful.

slavery is useful... ffs. this isn't spartacus.:rolleyes:

thebullkf

though in one case it was useful...


james somersett.

Chaotic_Forces

thebullkf wrote: »

slavery is useful... ffs. this isn't spartacus.:rolleyes:

I don't know about you but putting scum to work sweeping the streets would certainly make this place nicer.

thebullkf

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

I don't know about you but putting scum to work sweeping the streets would certainly make this place nicer.

if people didn't litter, we wouldn't need street sweepers.

Chaotic_Forces

thebullkf wrote: »

slavery is useful... ffs. this isn't spartacus.:rolleyes:

thebullkf wrote: »

if people didn't litter, we wouldn't need street sweepers.

If junkies didn't leave used needles around we wouldn't need to pay tax.

See how random claims can work?

thebullkf

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

If junkies didn't leave used needles around we wouldn't need to pay tax.

See how random claims can work?

wtf are you shiting about. slavery you mentioned... you.

not me.

Chaotic_Forces

thebullkf wrote: »

wtf are you shiting about. slavery you mentioned... you.

not me.

Well apprently if nobody littered we never would need the streets cleaned. I was just making up stuff like you were without any proof.

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