Removing then retiling wall tiles

Rob113

Hi folks.

I currently have Red Brick effect tiles up on the walls in the kitchen and i want to take them down cause they are driving me mad. Too dark for the kitchen - kitchen at back of house and gets no direct sun light. I want to replace them with Lighter coloured tiles.

What im querying is how do i go about removing them without taking chunks of plaster off the wall and when they are gone do i need to sand the remaining grout off the wall or can i just grout over the stuff thats left behind. Im a complete novice tiler by the way. I laid the kitchen and bathroom floor tiles quite successfully but never done a wall so im a little apprehensive.

Martron

if the initial tiles were put up ok you can tile over them.

ctrl-alt-delete

First off, I'd remove the old tiles. I wouldn't consider tiling over tiles in this situation.

Once you remove one tile, the rest should come off fine. If you tiles dont go all the way up you have an easy starting point to remove some. If the tiles do - then just smash one and work from there.

I always find an old wood chisel works good in getting them off, it also acts as a good tools for removing the Grout.

If the adhesive starts coming off ok - I'd consider removing it, to make laying the new ones easier. If not, i'd just remove any high points and try get the surface as level as possible that way.

Rob113

Thanks folks. The tiles themselves should come off handy enough. It is all the leftover adhesive i was unsure about. Didnt know whether to sand it down or just tile over it.

When tiling a wall though do you start at the bottom and work your way up or do you find your centre line and start half way up the wall. Dont want to have a big tile on the bottom and only a bit of a tile at the top.

Buford T Justice

Rob113 wrote: »

Thanks folks. The tiles themselves should come off handy enough. It is all the leftover adhesive i was unsure about. Didnt know whether to sand it down or just tile over it.

When tiling a wall though do you start at the bottom and work your way up or do you find your centre line and start half way up the wall. Dont want to have a big tile on the bottom and only a bit of a tile at the top.

Its personal taste. You want to try to get it in between if you can. If the tiles end up that there would be a small piece at the top with a full tile at the bottom, then split the difference between them. try to do some sort of a dry layout if you can to see how it goes.

In regards to the leftover adhesive, take off as much as possible, and just smooth as best as possible to try to get an even surface

ctrl-alt-delete

Rob113 wrote: »

Thanks folks. The tiles themselves should come off handy enough. It is all the leftover adhesive i was unsure about. Didnt know whether to sand it down or just tile over it.

When tiling a wall though do you start at the bottom and work your way up or do you find your centre line and start half way up the wall. Dont want to have a big tile on the bottom and only a bit of a tile at the top.

Whenever tiling anything, be it a wall or a floor, never make the mistake of finding the centre line and starting blind from there. Ok sometimes it could work out like that - but the most important thing to do is plan the job visually - to avoid having small cuts anywhere that can be helped.

Planning a kitchen wall is probably the most difficult one to plan because there are so many places where small bits could end up. These being around the sockets, the ends of presses,the end of walls, around windows and taking into account a possible windowsil too.

My practice for kitchen walls would be always to start with a full tile along your countertop. Generally speaking the countertop should be level enough and so acts as a good starting point. The main point of focus is usually above where you have your hob. I usually find the centre of this and see how the tiles work out from there - as regards all the variables i mentioned above. Mess around and try find a starting point with the best balance between them all.

You say you don't want to be left with a small bit of tile on top, normally this does not matter as you will not see it under the wall presses in any case. Normally i always finish on a full tile anyways by bringing it up wherever that tile may fall above the bottom line of wall presses.

I always remove the sockets and tile behind them too - if you havnt done this before make sure you have taken enough of tile out before sticking it on. Normally it is or 3 mm in from the line of the socket above and to the side. The screws are where you need to make sure you have taken out enough.

In terms of adhesive, make sure you get a ready mixed tub of adhesive. This will give you the time to do the job right - some places try sell you one you mix on your own (while this is fine for floors) it does not really suit the task of tiling walls efficiently. In addition to this make sure you use spacers, they are worth their weight in gold - normally i would use 2mm/3mm on walls - but in some cases a larger gap of 4mm or so might suit a certain type of tile. It is all about what you would be happy with anyways.

Good luck with it, and take your time - you will be looking at it for a long time

Joey the lips

Any times come off walls fine and if there is problems its easy to fix. Outside that your unusal

imo.... never use ready mixed adhesive....

ctrl-alt-delete

Joey the lips wrote: »

Any times come off walls fine and if there is problems its easy to fix. Outside that your unusal

imo.... never use ready mixed adhesive....

Why would that be then?

Joey the lips

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

Why would that be then?

2 reasons...

1, They dont actually set which means there is movement which can cause the grout to crack.

2. Then moisture gets in and the adhesive solidifies....


Any tiler will tell you this.

ctrl-alt-delete

Joey the lips wrote: »

2 reasons...

1, They dont actually set which means there is movement which can cause the grout to crack.

2. Then moisture gets in and the adhesive solidifies....


Any tiler will tell you this.

Well in my years of using ready mixed adhesive on walls i have never encountered any of the problems you highlight above.

For myself i would never consider using powder adhesive on walls for efficiency reasons.

That said, i would not use ready mixed grouts because they are a nightmare to clean if left too long.

Joey the lips

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

Well in my years of using ready mixed adhesive on walls i have never encountered any of the problems you highlight above.

For myself i would never consider using powder adhesive on walls for efficiency reasons.

That said, i would not use ready mixed grouts because they are a nightmare to clean if left too long.

Forgive me but i am not out to convince you I am just telling you somthing which is well known. another reason ready mixed adhesives work so well in kitchens is the tiles are not saturated and usually changed a lot more than bathrooms.

However this does not make them right..... There is no widely ready mixed floor adhesive available...guess why....


Because the floor would never set so the tiles would move when walked on...

again.... I am not out to convince you just give you information...

ctrl-alt-delete

Joey the lips wrote: »

Forgive me but i am not out to convince you I am just telling you somthing which is well known. another reason ready mixed adhesives work so well in kitchens is the tiles are not saturated and usually changed a lot more than bathrooms.

However this does not make them right..... There is no widely ready mixed floor adhesive available...guess why....


Because the floor would never set so the tiles would move when walked on...

again.... I am not out to convince you just give you information...

I don't need convincing, i understand what you are saying.

Normally with walls there will be a certain amount of movement inherent with them anyways. Therefore ready mixed adhesive suits it. Whatever type of adhesive you use should never be exposed to water anyways, that is what grout is for.

Ready mixed adhesives dry by dehydration and they will dry if given the correct time to dry, maybe that is what causes the problems listed above, i.e. the grouting process has taken place too soon.

Most Tilers are out there to make money and so that is why many will use powder adhesive as it drys by hydration so moisture is never going to be an issue and the grouting process can take place sooner.

This is a DIY forum, and for the ease, efficiency and extra cleanliness that ready mixed adhesive offers i would recommend it for the job at hand. There will be no problems like you listed above once the required drying time is followed.

Joey the lips

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

I don't need convincing, i understand what you are saying.

Normally with walls there will be a certain amount of movement inherent with them anyways. Therefore ready mixed adhesive suits it. Whatever type of adhesive you use should never be exposed to water anyways, that is what grout is for.

Ready mixed adhesives dry by dehydration and they will dry if given the correct time to dry, maybe that is what causes the problems listed above, i.e. the grouting process has taken place too soon.

Most Tilers are out there to make money and so that is why many will use powder adhesive as it drys by hydration so moisture is never going to be an issue and the grouting process can take place sooner.

This is a DIY forum, and for the ease, efficiency and extra cleanliness that ready mixed adhesive offers i would recommend it for the job at hand. There will be no problems like you listed above once the required drying time is followed.

I disagree especially with the highlited bit and your own words earlier demonstrate this. Tilers out to make money use ready made adhesive. Its quicker. Tilers out to do a good job use powder adhesive and flex rapid adhesive will actually stand up better against water ingress.

again... for the benefit of the user i see it used in the kitchens all the tile I would never use it... I would never use it on porc and marble over a certain size and if I had my way i would outlaw it... I actually only stocked it in small quantities and only ever sold it to diyers

ctrl-alt-delete

Joey the lips wrote: »

I actually only stocked it in small quantities and only ever sold it to diyers

Which is who i am recommending it to.

big zeb

Hi OP,
anytime i needed to remove old tile adhesive i,ve used a wallpaper steamer to soften the adhesive and a quick rub of a scraper and the stuff just falls off without damaging the plasterwork. I got this tip off a tiler years ago and it takes all the work out of a dirty job. Hope this helps, Zeb

Joey the lips

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

Which is who i am recommending it to.

Granted thats fair but I sold it because they asked for it not because i recomended it.

big zeb wrote: »

Hi OP,
anytime i needed to remove old tile adhesive i,ve used a wallpaper steamer to soften the adhesive and a quick rub of a scraper and the stuff just falls off without damaging the plasterwork. I got this tip off a tiler years ago and it takes all the work out of a dirty job. Hope this helps, Zeb

Great tip but only works with buckets of ready made...

goat2

Joey the lips wrote: »

Granted thats fair but I sold it because they asked for it not because i recomended it.



Great tip but only works with buckets of ready made...

why would you not recommend tiling over existing tiles
and how would a person go about tiling over tiles
do we prepare the existing tiles first

Joey the lips

goat2 wrote: »

why would you not recommend tiling over existing tiles
and how would a person go about tiling over tiles
do we prepare the existing tiles first

i never rec it because in the case of a bathroom it kicks the tile out off the wall and it brings the bath taps very close to the wall.

if you tile over a floor in a bathroom then you raise the toilet bowl up which causes plumbing problems with the inlet and outlet.

If you tile over on a kitchen wall it usually steps the wall out and the hob runs along side the tile

If you tile over the kitchen floor you have to trim the kickboards and sometimes the doors.

Either way it all have to be eventually removed....For the benefit of the tape no adhesive manufacturer of ready made adhesive will rec tileing over tiles.

yeahme

Is it possible to get 3/8in hardi-board, where you are
if so just cut into shape and screw into existing tiles.
Its flat, quick and efficient, and ready to tile straight away.

Joey the lips

yeahme wrote: »

Is it possible to get 3/8in hardi-board, where you are
if so just cut into shape and screw into existing tiles.
Its flat, quick and efficient, and ready to tile straight away.

Thats true that works but your reducing the size of your room and giving yourself the plumbing problems i mentioned...

yeahme

I understand what youre saying but 3/8in flat hardi-board is not really taking up much, as this is only for the kitchen wall the only problem with the hardiboard would be the hob cooker and a neat finish bull nose tile could solve that.
Also taking off the sockets obviously. and you may have to extend wires in recessed box, but not a big problem at all.
what you reckon joe.

Dont get to the stage where you have to use a grinder to take the adhesive off, bein there done that, still coughing the dust 3 months later!!

Buford T Justice

yeahme wrote: »

I understand what youre saying but 3/8in flat hardi-board is not really taking up much, as this is only for the kitchen wall the only problem with the hardiboard would be the hob cooker and a neat finish bull nose tile could solve that.
Also taking off the sockets obviously. and you may have to extend wires in recessed box, but not a big problem at all.
what you reckon joe.

Dont get to the stage where you have to use a grinder to take the adhesive off, bein there done that, still coughing the dust 3 months later!!

You put the hardi board on the walls over tiles, and you are adding the depth of the hardi board on top of the adhesive and tiles and will reduce the room size that you have. May run into issues around the cooker and such

Joey the lips

Fingers McGee wrote: »

You put the hardi board on the walls over tiles, and you are adding the depth of the hardi board on top of the adhesive and tiles and will reduce the room size that you have. May run into issues around the cooker and such

Cooker( If hob) sink (if built in) sockets.Cooker switch. Window sill and blinds if going on inside wall.