Buying a tourer thru bike to work scheme

Mickeybags

With a budget of around 1500 euros I plan to buy a tourer thru a Lbs using the bike to work scheme.

My best option to date seems to be to buy a surly lht frame in a shop and have them build the bike according to my spec.

From past experience and at 6'2 and weighing 15 stone my priority is a strong reliable wheelset.
Overall durable and dependable parts are what I want.

I will be using the bike for short credit card touring to long fully loaded touring

Below is my first stab at a list
All help and suggestions welcomed.

Frame
Surly LHT 58cm
26’’ wheels
Headset
Crane Creek S3

Stem
?

Handlebars
FSA Alloy

Shifters
Shimano Tiagra 27 speed STI

Brakes
Avid Shorty Canti

Seat post and clamp
?

Saddle
San Marco Rolls

Chain set
Shimano Deore M590 175mm

Cassette
Shimano Deore HG 61 9 speed

Chain
Shimano HG 53-9

Bottom Bracket
Shimano 105 5500

Front Derailleur
Shimano Tiagra 4503 triple 9

Rear Derailleur
Shimano 105 5600

Wheels Rims
Mavic 26’’ 719 36 hole

Wheel Hubs
Shimano Deore 36 hole

Pedals
None

Tires
Schwalbe marathon xr 26-2.0

Tubes
?

penexpers

Mickeybags wrote: »

My best option to date seems to be to buy a surly lht in a shop and have them build the bike according to my spec.

This is not allowed under the bike to work scheme - you are only allowed to purchase complete bikes.

ednwireland

penexpers wrote: »

This is not allowed under the bike to work scheme - you are only allowed to purchase complete bikes.

if the invoice says bicycle i doubt anyone will question it, if the shop builds the bike i really dont see any issue

mrbike

I'm planning to do something similar with a Bob Jackson frame.

I spoke to the guys in City Cycles in Stoneybatter and they've no problem with putting the parts on the cycle to work scheme.

Mickeybags

I will be buying a complete bike

The frame and components will all come thru the shop.

I will be paying the costs above the 1000 euro myself

penexpers

mrbike wrote: »

I'm planning to do something similar with a Bob Jackson frame.

I spoke to the guys in City Cycles in Stoneybatter and they've no problem with putting the parts on the cycle to work scheme.

Of course the bike shop have no problem putting the parts through - why should they care where the money comes from. Ultimately you are defrauding your employer and in the event of a revenue audit, it would be the employer and not the bike shop that would be in trouble.

blorg

penexpers wrote: »

This is not allowed under the bike to work scheme - you are only allowed to purchase complete bikes.

It is allowed as long as the shop build the bike. He is buying a complete bike from them, just to his spec. There is nothing wrong with this under the scheme. You can't buy "parts" on their own but you can certainly buy a custom bike. He is defrauding nobody.

@OP- I just got an A719 rear wheel myself (36h on new 105) and it looks good. You wouldn't need 36h up front, 32 would be enough. For the same overall number of spokes/weight 40/32 would be stronger than 36/36 IMO. The front rarely gives any problems.

Schwalbe Marathon XR are very heavy and for if you are taking the bike off-road in the Himalayas. I would not go near them if you are riding on tarmac in Europe. I currently have Marathon Racers 700x35c on mine and they are very nice and fast rolling.

I don't see any particular reason to go for 105 RD or BB cups over Tiagra unless they are the same price or close. 9 speed makes a lot of sense I think, it is definitely less finikity than 10 speed and easier to keep in adjustment. Some cross racers still use 9 speed I believe for this reason.

Depending on how far you want to go now is the time to consider a mountain bike crankset, especially as you are going 9 speed. If it is your only bike and you will be using it unloaded then the road set may make sense. Loaded touring though I rarely go near my big ring and small sprockets while more than once 30-27 has been insufficient. Note I would consider myself an extremely strong cyclist. When heavily loaded doing big mileage you sometimes end up needing it going up a steep hill.

I don't know about the Shortys. I have very very bad experience with Shimano Altus low profile cantis (just don't stop the bike) and very good experience with wide profile cantis: Tektro CR720s and Frogs Legs. It is essential with cantis that they are adjustable and you get the right height, I am not sure the Shortys are. You would at least need a range of those connector wire things.

Bars and saddle are a very personal choice. Pedals: None is a poor choice for touring

mrbike

penexpers wrote: »

Of course the bike shop have no problem putting the parts through - why should they care where the money comes from. Ultimately you are defrauding your employer and in the event of a revenue audit, it would be the employer and not the bike shop that would be in trouble.

And what do you classify as a complete bike? For me it's frame, stem, handle bars, and wheels. If it rolls down a hill, then it's bike. It's hardly fraud. If you want to get really picky add a front chainset, chain and single speed cog at the back. Maybe a front brake too. Saddle optional

penexpers

blorg wrote: »

It is allowed as long as the shop build the bike. He is buying a complete bike from them, just to his spec. There is nothing wrong with this under the scheme. You can't buy "parts" on their own but you can certainly buy a custom bike. He is defrauding nobody.

Revenue have a quite specific list of items that can be purchased under the scheme and neither "frames" nor "parts" are on that list. If you buy a custom bike through a shop, they won't invoice you for the bike, they will invoice you for each part individually. I won't argue with you that "frames" and "parts" make up a complete bike, but you have to work with the Revenue's guidelines.

What happened to me was I went to Cyclelogical looking for a custom bike. They said they couldn't do a quote for the frame and parts (as this is not allowed under the scheme) but what they would do is give me a quote for a Trek 1.2 (or something) and use that to get the voucher from my employer. When I got the voucher I could then go to them and get whatever I wanted. I never went throught with it.

DualFrontDiscs

@OP. You lucky, lucky b*stard. Sounds like a great project.

I'd endorse blorg's view that what you're doing IS compliant with the bike to work scheme.

I have two touring bikes, a Super Galaxy and a Blue Ridge. The Super Galaxy is an eight speed mountain bike Shimano setup. The Blue Ridge is a ten speed 'touring' Campagnola setup.

The Super Galaxy gearing will allow you to tour with any amount of weight over any terrain. The Blue Ridge, less so. The Blue Ridge is the better ride unloaded. So it kinda depends what you want.

What are you doing for racks? The Surly racks are nice. I'd go front and back racks from the outset. Even if you're not carrying lots it'll be nice to be able to distribute the weight.

I'd also suggest looking at a Schmidt SON hub up front. It's a dynamo hub that not only can power your lights, but also your GPS, iPhone, etc (if you have the right add on)

I'd go Brooks on the saddle.

DFD.

Morgan

It'd be worth upgrading the hubs to XT, they'll last a lot longer - the sealing on Deores is pretty poor.

Personally, I'd go for 700c wheels rather than 26" unless you're planning on actually going offroad. The LHT has great tyre clearance so you can still run wide tyres on 700c rims. I think they'll roll a lot better on the road.

blorg

penexpers wrote: »

Revenue have a quite specific list of items that can be purchased under the scheme and neither "frames" nor "parts" are on that list. If you buy a custom bike through a shop, they won't invoice you for the bike, they will invoice you for each part individually. I won't argue with you that "frames" and "parts" make up a complete bike, but you have to work with the Revenue's guidelines.

What happened to me was I went to Cyclelogical looking for a custom bike. They said they couldn't do a quote for the frame and parts (as this is not allowed under the scheme) but what they would do is give me a quote for a Trek 1.2 (or something) and use that to get the voucher from my employer. When I got the voucher I could then go to them and get whatever I wanted. I never went throught with it.

That is bull**** from Cycleogical. There is nothing to stop them just totalling the whole thing up and giving a price at the end for the "bike." There is NOTHING in the Revenue's guidelines that prohibit a custom bike.

mrbike

I recently rebuild an old steel frame Galaxy. Here's what I went with:

1) Tektro Brakes - Cyclo X 992AG Oryx Cantilever Brake Silver - Each
(1) Tektro Brakes - Cyclo X 992AG Oryx Cantilever Brake Silver - Each
(1) Shimano Cranksets - Road Tiagra Chainset Square Taper Triple 4403 175mm 30.42.52
(1) Shimano Derailleurs - Road Front Tiagra Front Derailleur Triple 9sp 4503 28.6mm & 31.8mm Band On
(1) Shimano Gear Shifters - Road Tiagra STI Levers 9 Speed 4503 Set Left & Right - Triple
(1) Shimano Cassettes - MTB Deore Cassette 9 Speed HG50 11-34
(1) Shimano Derailleurs - MTB Rear LX Rear Derailleur T661 SGS Long Cage

I went with the Tiagra front chainset for the big 52 chainring. It's also a square taper (I didn't want to have to get the bottom bracket shell refaced).

At the back I went for a 34, which means you need to get a long cage derailleur. Note that the front Tiagra chainsets takes a 113mm bottom bracket.

I find the mix of the road bike parts at the front and mountain bike parts at the back works very well. The only thing I'm disappointed with are the brakes. I'll probably change them later.

DualFrontDiscs

Morgan wrote: »

Personally, I'd go for 700c wheels rather than 26" unless you're planning on actually going offroad. The LHT has great tyre clearance so you can still run wide tyres on 700c rims. I think they'll roll a lot better on the road.

Both my touring bikes are 700c. I use Mavic T520 36h rims, which are loaded touring/ tandem rims. I've never had any issues with them and I'm more than happy to go a little offroad, even loaded (with stuff that is )

26in makes perfect sense if you're going to South America or India, or somewhere else where you'll have difficulty getting replacement 700c tubes, tyres, spokes and (worst case scenario) rims.

The LHT has quite the active user base on the Internet, I'm sure you'll find active debates on the matter online.

DFD.

Mickeybags

Thanks for all the replies to date

Exactly what I was hoping for

adjusting my list..........decisions decisions

Mickeybags

Re Brooks saddle

I must have an odd shaped A**e

Persevered for 8,000ks on B17, glad to see the back of it.

Ready to try something different

thebouldwhacker

Hi op, is 58cm large enough as a frame, if your 6'2" you should consider going 60+. I am of similar height and while my road bike is 58cm I am using a 22.5 inch converted mtb as a tourer, I find the larger frame good grinding up hills, speeding along straight line and it feels more secure when loaded, but thats just my opinion.

keano007

I spoke to a friend recently that got a lawnmower thru the bike to work scheme.....trust me most bike shops will write anything you want on an invoice!!! It's all money for them!

DualFrontDiscs

keano007 wrote: »

I spoke to a friend recently that got a lawnmower thru the bike to work scheme.....trust me most bike shops will write anything you want on an invoice!!! It's all money for them!

I assume it is a ride on mower, otherwise that's just taking the p*ss.

DFD.

Mickeybags

Well spotted DFD

Although 6'2 I have a long torso and shortist legs.

Have had a couple of fittings over the years and a 58 with a slightly longer stem on the bars gives me a good fit

dayshah

Mickeybags wrote: »

Well spotted DFD

Although 6'2 I have a long torso and shortist legs.

Have had a couple of fittings over the years and a 58 with a slightly longer stem on the bars gives me a good fit

Fittings on what though? Racing bikes have a different geometry.

I'm thinking of buying a LHT and putting the parts on myself. I'm 6ft, but will go for the 62cm frame.

blorg

dayshah wrote: »

Fittings on what though? Racing bikes have a different geometry.

I have ridden 58 on basically all my "road" type bikes from racers to tourers to cyclocross bikes.

petethedrummer

dayshah wrote: »

Fittings on what though? Racing bikes have a different geometry.

I'm thinking of buying a LHT and putting the parts on myself. I'm 6ft, but will go for the 62cm frame.

I'm 5'10 (and 1/2) and I'd go for the 54.

The 62 has a 610.0mm horizontal toptube length: http://www.surlybikes.com/frames/long_haul_trucker_frame/

Check this, you may be going too large compared to others of your height: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pdb5rlL1ns0XLxM31WpvkCw#gid=0

Clare_Culchie

Er, I've just learned this the hard way, but it appears that if you're cycling a new bike in Dublin you're either a thief or a fool. Good bikes in Dublin are either robbed or going to be. People told me I'd be a fool to buy a bike but I figured "why shouldn't I have a good bike in Dublin? I'll get a good lock and it'll be grand". Last week, less than one month after buying it, my securely-locked bike and €90 worth of lock were stolen from the basement of my apartment block in Ballsbridge.

If you really want to have a good bike, make it look like junk. Camoflage it or something with a crappy paint-job or something.

dayshah

petethedrummer wrote: »

I'm 5'10 (and 1/2) and I'd go for the 54.

The 62 has a 610.0mm horizontal toptube length: http://www.surlybikes.com/frames/long_haul_trucker_frame/

Check this, you may be going too large compared to others of your height: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pdb5rlL1ns0XLxM31WpvkCw#gid=0

I have longish arms.

I took a look at the surly sizing guide

I was fitted out on a 'trekking' bike which didn't have drop handlebars, but the top tube length was 610mm. Would this be ok?
I measured myself and the standover height seems ok for me.

Morgan

Clare_Culchie wrote: »

Last week, less than one month after buying it, my securely-locked bike and €90 worth of lock were stolen from the basement of my apartment block in Ballsbridge.

Sorry your bike got nicked, but apartment block basements are terrible places to leave bikes - they give thieves plenty of time and privacy to get through any lock.

dayshah wrote: »

I was fitted out on a 'trekking' bike which didn't have drop handlebars, but the top tube length was 610mm. Would this be ok?
I measured myself and the standover height seems ok for me.

You need a shorter top-tube with a drop-barred bike. The brake lever hoods will be a good few cm further away than a straight handlebar would be.

DualFrontDiscs

Morgan wrote: »

You need a shorter top-tube with a drop-barred bike. The brake lever hoods will be a good few cm further away than a straight handlebar would be.

+1

dayshah

Morgan wrote: »

You need a shorter top-tube with a drop-barred bike. The brake lever hoods will be a good few cm further away than a straight handlebar would be.

I'd probably mostly be in an upright position and have my hands on the top of the bar. I'd relatively rarely go into an aerodynamic position (probably just on windy days, and straight downhills). Would this make a difference?

petethedrummer

dayshah wrote: »

I have longish arms.

I took a look at the surly sizing guide

I was fitted out on a 'trekking' bike which didn't have drop handlebars, but the top tube length was 610mm. Would this be ok?

Honestly I don't know. It just seems a tad large compared to what other people have bought in that spreadsheet.

Morgan

dayshah wrote: »

I'd probably mostly be in an upright position and have my hands on the top of the bar. I'd relatively rarely go into an aerodynamic position (probably just on windy days, and straight downhills). Would this make a difference?

Have you used drops before? Generally you'd spend most of your time on the brake-hoods - relaxed hand position and near the brakes and gears. On the drops for descents and headwinds. Tops for a change and to loosen up a bit.

dayshah

Morgan wrote: »

Have you used drops before? Generally you'd spend most of your time on the brake-hoods - relaxed hand position and near the brakes and gears. On the drops for descents and headwinds. Tops for a change and to loosen up a bit.

No, I've only used straight bars.

blorg

dayshah wrote: »

No, I've only used straight bars.

Morgan is right here. I converted a flat bar bike to drops and found I needed a 20mm shorter stem to compensate.

dayshah

Thanks all for the advice, you've prob saved me some money/pain/injury

I reckon I'll go for the 58cm so, which seems to tie in with what other people got on that excel sheet.

I don't have any experience in building a bike, but I think it can be fun to give it a try. Bring me back to my Lego days. Also I'll learn all about the bike, so if I'm somewhere inaccessible I can repair anything that fails.