Barrel Lenghts

diveshark

How long is yours!!!?;)

buying a new .308 this week, was about to get a tikka t3 lite, but a few people/dealers have said that the pre-threaded 20" barrel is too short.
Accuracy becomes an issue I'm hearing, specially at longer distances.
They come in 22" also not sure if they make longer barrel versions.
Been told that 24" and above is really where I should be aiming (excuse the pun:D)

Plan to mostly stalk with it but some range shooting will be carried out in the coming years.

Thanks in advance for any advice provided.

Tackleberrywho

my .308 Remmy is 20" and can hit bunn@200 if for MOSTLY stalking I'd go short barrel. Very handy rifle. If u want accuracy buy a Tactical. i

diveshark wrote: »

How long is yours!!!?;)

buying a new .308 this week, was about to get a tikka t3 lite, but a few people/dealers have said that the pre-threaded 20" barrel is too short.
Accuracy becomes an issue I'm hearing, specially at longer distances.
They come in 22" also not sure if they make longer barrel versions.
Been told that 24" and above is really where I should be aiming (excuse the pun:D)

Plan to mostly stalk with it but some range shooting will be carried out in the coming years.

Thanks in advance for any advice provided.

DR6.5

Diveshark i have a 20" barrell on my Tikka t3 lite in 25.06, i was shooting rabbits out to 200 mtrs and clays at 350 mtrs with it at the weekend.

If your using the rifle for stalking 90% of the animals you will shoot will be shot at 0-120mtrs.

Also if you want to stick a mod on the rifle having the 20" barrell means the rifle will not be too long.

For stalking you want a nice light compact rifle, as you said the rifle will be used predominantly for stalking not target shooting.

Id definatley recommend the 20" barrell and the Tikka T3 lite.

dr6.5

dwighet

A t3 lite 20 inch tube would be a lovely stalking rifle...
You could carry it around in one hand all day and not get snagged up in trees..

jwshooter

bull .

the few dealers did not have one in 20" thats why . A short barrel in a lite profile is stiff and will possibly shoot better that the same barrel in 22-24" .

also your getting full burn in 20" or before it in a short cartridge like 243-308-7mm08 etc.

diveshark

jwshooter wrote: »

bull .

the few dealers did not have one in 20" thats why . A short barrel in a lite profile is stiff and will possibly shoot better that the same barrel in 22-24" .

also your getting full burn in 20" or before it in a short cartridge like 243-308-7mm08 etc.

what does full burn mean to the lay man?

jwshooter

diveshark wrote: »

what does full burn mean to the lay man?

your powder is fully burnt , i would go for a 20" barrel in the t3 in 308 .

you will find your not losing much velocity with a 20" over 22" and you will have a handy stalking rifle .

accuracy wise there will be no difference out to any range ,but the shorter barrel with a mod on generally shoots better .

the uk police are using tac t3s in 308 with a 20" barrel with a t8 on .im sure they tested the different formats

johngalway

Heh, just to be awkward I'll say go for the 24" barrel and see how that shoots. Easy to take it down a few inches if it doesn't work out, but difficult to add 4" to a barrel.

LongRifle

jwshooter wrote: »

..also your getting full burn in 20" or before it in a short cartridge like 243-308-7mm08 etc.

You’re getting no where near full burn of a standard .308 round with a 20" barrel.

Take Federal or Hornady 150gr .308 hunting rounds, roughly 2820fps from a 24" barrel with a burn rate of around 98%. Cut back to 20" and you get a burn rate around 96.75% and a reduction of MV to about 2710fps. Likewise if you increase barrel length to say 30" you’re approaching a 99% burn rate with an MV of around 2950fps. After 30" you start hitting the law of diminishing returns with every extra inch only adding about 15-20fps.

jwshooter

LongRifle wrote: »

You’re getting no where near full burn of a standard .308 round with a 20" barrel.

Take Federal or Hornady 150gr .308 hunting rounds, roughly 2820fps from a 24" barrel with a burn rate of around 98%. Cut back to 20" and you get a burn rate around 96.75% and a reduction of MV to about 2710fps. Likewise if you increase barrel length to say 30" you’re approaching a 99% burn rate with an MV of around 2950fps. After 30" you start hitting the law of diminishing returns with every extra inch only adding about 15-20fps.

it would be closer to 25-30 fps from 20" to 25" barrel .

the burn rate at 20" barrel is as good as any hunting rifle 2% is noting as is 50-60 fps . 2" less on a field gun does make it a lot more user friendly especially with a mod on .

accurateshooters .com .have all information on the 308 .thats where i got the data above .

LongRifle

jwshooter wrote: »

it would be closer to 25-30 fps from 20" to 25" barrel ...accurateshooters .com .have all information on the 308 .thats where i got the data above .

You're reading that wrong JW. Here is the quote form that website.

"A shorter barrel definitely delivers less velocity, all other factors being equal. With most powder/bullet combinations, you can figure an additional 25-30 fps "per inch" going from 20 to 25 inches. From 25 to 30 inches, add an extra 17-20 fps. From 30-33 inches you may pick up 15-17 fps or so, with appropriate powders."

That’s a total of about 125-150fps of an increase going from 20"-25".

accurateshooters.com aka 6mmbr.com

A shorter barrel will be lighter, stiffer and more maneuverable and a longer barrel will give you more velocity. That's the trade off, it comes down to what your preference is.

jwshooter

LongRifle wrote: »

You're reading that worng JW. Here is the quote form that website.

"A shorter barrel definitely delivers less velocity, all other factors being equal. With most powder/bullet combinations, you can figure an additional 25-30 fps "per inch" going from 20 to 25 inches. From 25 to 30 inches, add an extra 17-20 fps. From 30-33 inches you may pick up 15-17 fps or so, with appropriate powders."

That’s a total of about 125-150fps of an increase going from 20"-25".

accurateshooters.com aka 6mmbr.com

A shorter barrel will be lighter, stiffer and more maneuverable and a longer barrel will give you more velocity. That's the trade off, it comes down to what your preference is.

thats 25-30fps per inch between 20"-25" .in total 50-60 fps as i stated for two inches .

i done a lot of research on the subject when i was getting my sako done ,i settled on a 22" barrel for my 270 .

the op will not benfit buying any thing longer than 20" .unless he is into 1000yds target shooting .

LongRifle

jwshooter wrote: »

thats 25-30fps per inch between 20"-25" .in total 50-60 fps as i stated for two inches .

i done a lot of research on the subject when i was getting my sako done ,i settled on a 22" barrel for my 270 .

the op will not benfit buying any thing longer than 20" .unless he is into 1000yds target shooting .

What you stated was this;

jwshooter wrote: »

...your getting full burn in 20" or before it in a short cartridge like 243-308-7mm08...

and then this;

jwshooter wrote: »

...it would be closer to 25-30 fps from 20" to 25" barrel...

Both of which are incorrect. No big deal.
I just want the OP to have all the relevant info on which to base his decision, especially when he said this;

diveshark wrote: »

...Plan to mostly stalk with it but some range shooting will be carried out in the coming years....

So, like I said; A shorter barrel will be lighter, stiffer and more maneuverable and a longer barrel will give you more velocity, "Which will be useful at longer range". That's the trade off, it comes down to what your preference is.

johngalway

OP mentioned range work is in his future, so I figure it's better to go for the longer barrel on that basis - although the range distance wasn't specified.

jwshooter

www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel

LongRifle

The bottom line is;

Greater velocity = Flatter trajectory and less wind deflection of the bullet. Fact.


The benefits of greater velocity increase and become more obvious with greater range.
Greater velocity can be achieved by either lengthening the barrel to aproach maximum burn and get the best from the powder in a factory load, or increasing the amount of powder in a handload. Best practice would be a combination of both.
Seeing how we are not allowed to handload in this country, we’re left with lengthening the barrel.

If you want a .308 rifle purely for target shooting at potentially longer distances, then a 30-32” barrel would be ideal.
If you want a .308 rifle purely for deer stalking at shorter distances, then a 20” barrel would be ideal.
If you want a .308 rifle for a mixture of both, then a 24” barrel, while not being ideal for either, would be an acceptable compromise of the two.

Tackleberrywho

LongRifle wrote: »

The bottom line is;

Greater velocity = Flatter trajectory and less wind deflection of the bullet. Fact.


The benefits of greater velocity increase and become more obvious with greater range.
Greater velocity can be achieved by either lengthening the barrel to aproach maximum burn and get the best from the powder in a factory load, or increasing the amount of powder in a handload. Best practice would be a combination of both.
Seeing how we are not allowed to handload in this country, we’re left with lengthening the barrel.

If you want a .308 rifle purely for target shooting at potentially longer distances, then a 30-32” barrel would be ideal.
If you want a .308 rifle purely for deer stalking at shorter distances, then a 20” barrel would be ideal.
If you want a .308 rifle for a mixture of both, then a 24” barrel, while not being ideal for either, would be an acceptable compromise of the two.

Really bottom line is what OP is willing to carry in the field, my vermin rifle rig is 1stone weight which is way to heavy for some, however I have got used to it.

So OP you are the only person who can decide what you want or can afford.

If I had my way I would have 1 of each for each discipline
For FTR Prob a savage FTR and my little 20" remmy for the deer
However I can only have one at the moment, and as i do not take part in FTR to date I have not bought an FTR rifle to date.

If you are going to use it for deer I would consider a moderator, and on a 20" barrel your rifle would increase out to ~25" barrel/mod length combined.

Whereas with a 24" barrel you have a quite long stalking rifle for going through brush/woodland etc
It's a personal decesion at the end of the day, all you mentioned can kill deer, just some with more ergonomic ease for the Hunter

jwshooter

i have shot more than my fair share of deer ,vermin using a t3in 243 with a 17" barrel .my mate has a 243 styer pro hunter with a 24" barrel im sure . out to 6-700yds there is no noticeable difference in them .

other than half a foot + .

FISMA

DiveShark,
A longer barrel helps with impulse. Impulse is how long a force is applied. A longer barrel allows gasses to apply a Force on the bullet for a longer period of time.

The greater time yields a higher muzzle velocity. A greater muzzle velocity means the round travels "flatter."

The difference is not going to be much for all practical purposes in the field at normal ranges.

I have had both size barrels on a Remington 700. I did not notice any difference in the field - or practical applications. The "technical" difference does not outweigh shooter variances within 300yards - IMHO and personal experience.

A smaller barrel, technically, will be easier to shoulder and manuever, if you are crawling through forestry, brush, or what not.

What are the prices?

All things considered equal, I would take the 24".

jwshooter

dont forget its a tikka t3 lite . not a target/varmint type gun .

the rifle is lite,small .the op is not going to win the wimbledon cup with it ,just stalking with some range work .

that will most lightly be informal .

im more into blood than ballistics and a 20" would be my pic

Tackleberrywho

jwshooter wrote: »

dont forget its a tikka t3 lite . not a target/varmint type gun .

the rifle is lite,small .the op is not going to win the wimbledon cup with it ,just stalking with some range work .

that will most lightly be informal .

im more into blood than ballistics and a 20" would be my pic

Good point JW

the 20" is a very handy rifle, however noise can be louder in my experience. I had 2 fellas fire beside me today in .308 one FTR on TRG and they seemed much quieter than my un-modded .308

diveshark

FISMA wrote: »

DiveShark,
A longer barrel helps with impulse. Impulse is how long a force is applied. A longer barrel allows gasses to apply a Force on the bullet for a longer period of time.

The greater time yields a higher muzzle velocity. A greater muzzle velocity means the round travels "flatter."

The difference is not going to be much for all practical purposes in the field at normal ranges.

I have had both size barrels on a Remington 700. I did not notice any difference in the field - or practical applications. The "technical" difference does not outweigh shooter variances within 300yards - IMHO and personal experience.

A smaller barrel, technically, will be easier to shoulder and manuever, if you are crawling through forestry, brush, or what not.

What are the prices?

All things considered equal, I would take the 24".

Its looking like circa €925 for the Tikka T3 lite with 20" and pre threaded from factory. If anyone knows cheaper, shout loud!;)
Just awaiting on a dealer to come back to me on the 22" price and if there is an option of a 24". Seems like there aren't many in 22" around for some reason. Maybe like the majority of you are saying there is such a minimal difference until you get to proper range shooting.
All the information has been great lads! Ta

rrpc

LongRifle wrote: »

The bottom line is;

Greater velocity = Flatter trajectory and less wind deflection of the bullet. Fact.

That's not a fact in fact

Wind deflection is a far more complex equation that involves the weight of the bullet as well as its speed.

For example, the lowly .22 bullet is less affected by wind at slower speeds.

poulo6.5

diveshark wrote: »

How long is yours!!!?;)

buying a new .308 this week, was about to get a tikka t3 lite, but a few people/dealers have said that the pre-threaded 20" barrel is too short.
Accuracy becomes an issue I'm hearing, specially at longer distances.
They come in 22" also not sure if they make longer barrel versions.
Been told that 24" and above is really where I should be aiming (excuse the pun:D)

Plan to mostly stalk with it but some range shooting will be carried out in the coming years.

Thanks in advance for any advice provided.

well lad i have a tikka t3 tactical 20" barrel and it is very capable its a .223 and i have shot this group at 500y



i also have a .308 with a 22.5" barrel that is very accurate also this is a pic from 350m when i got it first and was setting up the scope



i use my rifles for hunting and the short barrel makes sense for that. but as you can see they are capable of good accuracy also. i have shot my .308 out to 500y but i dont have a pic of the results but they were even better than the 350m pic above.
target shooters use barrels from 26"-32" to gain a small advantage like slight increase of accuracy at 1000y

bottom line is if you are stalking you should get a rifle that is comfortable for you, there are very accurate short barreled rifles out there and tikka is one of them
best of luck and enjoy your journey choosing your new rifle:D

LongRifle

rrpc wrote: »

...Wind deflection is a far more complex equation that involves the weight of the bullet as well as its speed...

Correct.

Now in relation to what I said here;

LongRifle wrote: »

...Greater velocity = Flatter trajectory and less wind deflection of the bullet. Fact...

I'm still working within my original example from here;

LongRifle wrote: »

...Take Federal or Hornady 150gr .308 hunting rounds...

With the caliber known - .308, and the weight known - 150gr, and all other things being equal, such as the same bullet with the same BC, the same rifle with the same twist rate, then;


"Greater velocity = Flatter trajectory and less wind deflection of the bullet. Fact."

stands true.