M11 - Arklow to Rathnew

Chris_5339762

So according to the recent rumours (1st Sept), work on Newlands and M11 gap will start on THURSDAY.

Anyone else think that is utter pie in the sky?

L1011

Not a chance. Although our bond yields are now under 9% they'd need to be stable closer to 5% before a PPP is going to get funding...

Amtmann

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

So according to the recent rumours (1st Sept), work on Newlands and M11 gap will start on THURSDAY.

Source?

Niles

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

So according to the recent rumours (1st Sept), work on Newlands and M11 gap will start on THURSDAY.

I doubt it.

L1011

Tremelo wrote: »

Source?

That website claiming the contract was awarded. Its the only smidgen of (mis?)information we've had in quite some time.

Wild Bill

Why the phuck can't the authorities just come clean and give weekly updates of the real situation?

It is bizarre that a project like this is the subject to public speculation and rumour when the latest information is obviously available to the Government/Civil Service.

This culture of evasion pisses me off!

I'm not one of the gang here who reckon everything every agency does is wrong/incompetent/wasteful/corrupt - but really; with their lack of transparency and general evasiveness they have only themselves to blame for the National Contempt of them we see manifest here on boards.ie

I may give up making excuses for them

Why can't an employee of the NRA/Dept of Transport be empowered and instructed to post an update here every week - and answer any non-commercially sensitive questions?

Amtmann

Wild Bill wrote: »

Why the phuck can't the authorities just come clean and give weekly updates of the real situation?

It is bizarre that a project like this is the subject to public speculation and rumour when the latest information is obviously available to the Government/Civil Service.

This culture of evasion pisses me off!

I'm not one of the gang here who reckon everything every agency does is wrong/incompetent/wasteful/corrupt - but really; with their lack of transparency and general evasiveness they have only themselves to blame for the National Contempt of them we see manifest here on boards.ie

I may give up making excuses for them

Why can't an employee of the NRA/Dept of Transport be empowered and instructed to post an update here every week - and answer any non-commercially sensitive questions?

I'm certainly not agin the NRA, but their secrecy annoys me. I tried to arrange a Boards.ie Q+A with Fred Barry last year (the questions would have been drawn from all your posts). Darragh contacted the NRA, but they completely ignored him.

Stark

Tremelo wrote: »

Source?

http://www.cisireland.com/ProjectDescription.aspx?id=985

veryangryman

I dont see how that means that there will be any movement on this. Well see

Stark

Neither do I but like others have said, it's the closest we have to any sort of information at present.

iwo

Stark wrote: »

Neither do I but like others have said, it's the closest we have to any sort of information at present.

What is going on there...detour on my way to work...what's that for and how long?

PseudoFamous

iwo wrote: »

What is going on there...detour on my way to work...what's that for and how long?

I'm not entirely sure what's going on, but the AA are saying that there are works going on between The Tap and The Beehive URL="http://www.aaireland.ie/AA/AA-Roadwatch/Story.aspx?id=121704"]source[/URL

Details are sketchy about what's going on up there, but if this is the N11 upgrade, there may be detours on parts of the N11 on and off for the next two years, while they build a section of motorway to replace the old road.

nordydan

PseudoFamous wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure what's going on, but the AA are saying that there are works going on between The Tap and The Beehive URL="http://www.aaireland.ie/AA/AA-Roadwatch/Story.aspx?id=121704"]source[/URL

Details are sketchy about what's going on up there, but if this is the N11 upgrade, there may be detours on parts of the N11 on and off for the next two years, while they build a section of motorway to replace the old road.

Its on Wicklow CC website, diversions are due to Eircom cabling

jd

Looks this one may be first to be started in the revised roads programme..

In this context the National Roads Authority is seeking to progress a number of projects by Public Private Partnership (PPP). The most advanced of these are:

N11 Arklow-Rathnew/ N7 Newlands Cross Interchange (a bundle of two projects)
N17 Gort/Tuam

Given the scale and cost of these projects, it was never intended to fund them directly from Exchequer resources. Rather it was intended to fund them by means of a PPP using private money to build and maintain these roads, paid back over a prolonged period by the Exchequer in the form of availability payments. The private funding market is particularly challenging at present and intensive efforts are continuing to access funding for these PPP projects. The Department of Transport is factoring into this investment framework sufficient funds to meet the availability payments for the N11 Arklow / N7 Newlands Cross Interchange over the medium term.

The intention is to continue to pursue the Gort-Tuam PPP with a view to the project going ahead within the framework period. Preparation works on the New Ross/Enniscorthy PPP project will be progressed. Work will also continue on the Galway City Outer By-Pass (N6) to resolve the legal issues delaying the project.

Sponge Bob

Quite right too. Have they given BAM the boot yet for timewasting....like they did off the M17 project.???

Niles

Better late than never. Apart from the Beehive-Arklow section I also see they're committed to finally linking up the two Luas lines, perhaps the theme of their spending is completing missing links that should have been done long ago...

Hopefully once this is done the Friday evening bottleneck near the Beehive will be a thing of the past, the next theoretical bottleneck would be after Gorey but I'd imagine that heavy traffic will have whittled off by that point anyway.

Wild Bill

Niles wrote: »

Better late than never. Apart from the Beehive-Arklow section I also see they're committed to finally linking up the two Luas lines, perhaps the theme of their spending is completing missing links that should have been done long ago...

Hopefully once this is done the Friday evening bottleneck near the Beehive will be a thing of the past, the next theoretical bottleneck would be after Gorey but I'd imagine that heavy traffic will have whittled off by that point anyway.

Yeah, the Luas lines will be joined up starting in 2015 (when the current regime is gone) :cool:

Let's be honest here: FG/Lab never have done infrastructure since the Ardnacrusha scheme.

L1011

Niles wrote: »

Hopefully once this is done the Friday evening bottleneck near the Beehive will be a thing of the past, the next theoretical bottleneck would be after Gorey but I'd imagine that heavy traffic will have whittled off by that point anyway.

Camolin and Ferns have never been serious problems. Enniscorthy, on the other hand...

Marcusm

Niles wrote: »

Better late than never. Apart from the Beehive-Arklow section I also see they're committed to finally linking up the two Luas lines, perhaps the theme of their spending is completing missing links that should have been done long ago...

Hopefully once this is done the Friday evening bottleneck near the Beehive will be a thing of the past, the next theoretical bottleneck would be after Gorey but I'd imagine that heavy traffic will have whittled off by that point anyway.

Did I misunderstand the capital plan? Rathnew/Arklow and Newlands are committed to PPP and the gov't has included the annual PPP payments in its future expenditure plans. This indicates that there is NO prospect of the work commencing in the foreseeable future.

There is currently no prospect og the gov't returning to public debt markets (ie issuing gov't bonds, in fact even the EFSF guaranteed by the Eurozone gov'ts is having difficulties) so there us no way a bank can price a commitment on PPP funding.

This is just a way if the gov't putting it on the long finger but appearing to stay committed to it.

spacetweek

Marcusm wrote: »

Did I misunderstand the capital plan? Rathnew/Arklow and Newlands are committed to PPP and the gov't has included the annual PPP payments in its future expenditure plans. This indicates that there is NO prospect of the work commencing in the foreseeable future.

No, it's exactly the opposite. They seem to be saying that they are going ahead with them despite the potentially high cost.

antoobrien

Marcusm wrote: »

Did I misunderstand the capital plan? Rathnew/Arklow and Newlands are committed to PPP and the gov't has included the annual PPP payments in its future expenditure plans.

This is the bit of the plan that refers to the scheme (taken from page 14)

In this context the National Roads Authority is seeking to progress a number of projects by Public Private Partnership (PPP). The most advanced of these are:

N11 Arklow-Rathnew/ N7 Newlands Cross Interchange (a bundle of two projects)
N17 Gort/Tuam

Given the scale and cost of these projects, it was never intended to fund them directly from Exchequer resources. Rather it was intended to fund them by means of a PPP using private money to build and maintain these roads, paid back over a prolonged period by the Exchequer in the form of availability payments. The private funding market is particularly challenging at present and intensive efforts are continuing to access funding for these PPP projects. The Department of Transport is factoring into this investment framework sufficient funds to meet the availability payments for the N11 Arklow / N7 Newlands Cross Interchange over the medium term.

It would seem that they are planning to have this money available.

Marcusm

It seems like I read it correctly so - they are still pursuing currently unavailable PPP funding which will not be available before the gov't reenters the bond markets except if they force one of the controlled banks to fund it. On this basis there will not be a start in the foreseeable future.

The "availability payments' are the regular annual payments which effectively payback the PPP funding not the money to construct the road.

Still they can find €50m for the A5 in NI.

dmeehan

Marcusm wrote: »

Still they can find €50m for the A5 in NI.

:rolleyes:

Wild Bill

Marcusm wrote: »

Still they can find €50m for the A5 in NI.

So - some good news at least?

number_1

Marcusm wrote: »

It seems like I read it correctly so - they are still pursuing currently unavailable PPP funding which will not be available before the gov't reenters the bond markets except if they force one of the controlled banks to fund it. On this basis there will not be a start in the foreseeable future.

The "availability payments' are the regular annual payments which effectively payback the PPP funding not the money to construct the road.

Still they can find €50m for the A5 in NI.

Bank of Ireland?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1220/roads.html

Marcusm

number_1 wrote: »

Bank of Ireland?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1220/roads.html

The perverse thing being that BoI is the one domestic bank which isn't gov't controlled. That being said, it may be possible for the structure to be capable of BoI using it as ECB collateral meaning that Europe is funding it via a proxy.

I think this proves my point that PPP is not possible (in the conventional rather than contrived sense). I'll be glad to see it done and hope that Irish residents of whatever nationality are engaged to do the physical work.

Quadra

Finally!

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/notorious-bottleneck-to-go-in-euro100m-road-plans-2969485.html

N11 should be done quicker than 2014 IMHO - it's been shovel ready for ages now.

Carawaystick

the IT's take on it is
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1221/1224309340432.html


"WORK IS expected to get under way in the coming months on two key road projects that had been stalled due to lack of funding.

A public-private partnership encompassing the upgrade of Newlands Cross in south Dublin and the Arklow-to-Rathnew dual carriageway in Co Wicklow, is now expected to start construction early in 2012.

Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar last night revealed finance of more than €100 million from Bank of Ireland and the European Investment Bank was in place.

Mr Varadkar described the Newlands Cross junction as the “last bottleneck between Dundalk and Cork” and said it will be removed.

Under the scheme, Newlands Cross is to be upgraded with a flyover interchange between the N7 Naas Road and R113 Fonthill/ Belgard Road. The N7, comprising a three-lane carriageway in each direction, will be free-flow through the junction.

The tender process for the contract began in June 2009.

The Arklow-to-Rathnew scheme has been in planning for some 20 years and is designed to take traffic away from a number of accident black spots.

It will involve the construction of a dual carriageway and associated side roads to link the existing N11 Arklow bypass with the existing Ashford-to-Rathnew bypass. Both projects are expected to be completed by 2014"



Sounds good

marathont

If this has been in planning for 20 years, why was it not done before now ? Is there something difficult about this particular stretch?

L1011

dc for the entire n11 has been in rough planning for 20 years or more. 'larne to Rosslare motorway' was a 60s idea even