M11 - Arklow to Rathnew

marmurr1916

BoatMad wrote: »

I dont think this is the case, we do have "N" for High Qualty Dual carriageway, , which can then be upgraded to motorway

The roads act 1993 specifically created motorways as existing under special regulations , the key being the ban on uncontrolled access and they are subject to a more stringent planning process these are designated Mxx by the NRA ( note the acts don't specifically specify "N",M" or "R" as a prefix,)

The 2007 amendment act , then allows a minister to re-designate a HQDC to motorway, the primary purpose is to prevent uncontrolled access been given and it also avoids the more complex motorway planning process.

M roads are correct legal designations for sections of a road under motorway rules and restrictions.

You can of course have a Nx and a Mx in parallel, its just that is hasn't been done in ireland as I suspect because we still have Nxx, HQDC etc acting as feeders to Mxx and having another section designated Nxx would cause confusion

Not under the numbering system used by the NRA and the designation of national primary roads as set out in law.

Every numbered national primary road has a specific route which is set out in law, in Statutory Instruments.

It is currently legally impossible to have two routes designated as N11 simultaneously.

Motorway sections of the N11 are still part of the N11. They are signposted as M11 to show they are under motorway restrictions. But legally speaking all Mxx roads in Ireland are part of designated national primary roads which follow a designated route as set out in law.

What would be the point in having a road which is clearly deemed inadequate by the NRA to act as a national primary road (otherwise it wouldn't be being replaced by a new section of motorway) signed as if it were a national primary route? :rolleyes:

There are only a few instances in Britain of where an A-road retains its number where there is a parallel motorway roughly following the same route.

But even in these instances, the A-road is not always signed as a primary route for its entire remaining length. And sometimes the A-road is no longer continuous - there may be gaps in the A-road where sections have been renumbered.

For example, the A5 from London to Holyhead is no longer continuously designated as a primary route and no longer exists as a continuous, uninterrupted route.

There is no A5 between the M1 north-west of Redbourn and Elstree, a distance of about 15 miles.

The road which had previously been numbered A5 is now the A5183, a non-primary A-road, which would be numbered as a regional route if it was in Ireland.

There is another gap in the A5 between its junction with the A442 and the western terminus of the M54. There is no A5 between these two points and the main non-motorway alternative route is the B5061.

In addition, the section of the A5 that still exists between its junction with the A449 and the western end of the M54 is not a primary route and primary destinations are not signposted along this stretch.

So if I wanted to take the old A5 route between London and Holyhead, I would have to take A5 primary from central London to suburban north London, then the A5 non-primary from suburban north London to near Elstree, then the A5183 to near Redbourn, then the A5 primary to its junction with the A449, then A5 non primary to its junction with the A442, then either M54 motorway to its western terminus or B5061 as a non-motorway alternative, followed by A5 primary to its junction with the A55 south of Bangor in Wales, then A5 non primary to Holyhead.

And if I wanted to be purist about it I would have to avoid bypass sections of the modern A5 and take roads through towns and villages which it now bypasses, such as the B4116 through Atherstone instead of the modern A5 bypass.

So it's not exactly a clearly numbered, clearly signposted, clearly designated route from London to Holyhead, is it?

spacetweek

Short answer: We don't maintain an N-designation on the old road in Ireland because they're usually not worth maintaining. Many of them are barely good enough to be R-roads, e.g. Waterford-Kilkenny.

josip

Meanwhile, somewhere in Wicklow...

TechnoFreek

Any idea what works were going on at the beehive overnight that caused delays at commuting time this morning?

spacetweek

Just spent a pleasant hour skimming over the first 20-30 pages of this thread which started in 2006. Really shocking how this particular scheme was pushed back over and over again - despite being a very dangerous road with a high traffic volume.

Yet we can now see the same happening with the M20.

It's about time this austerity nonsense was put to bed and an increase in infrastructure spending was announced targetted at particularly bad bottlenecks in our national network.

One interesting thing I noticed back in 2012 was that the Newlands/Wicklow Arklow PPP package was described as being part of a "government stimulus package". To qualify for that description it'd need to be new schemes not old ones that had been deferred for decades.

Schadenfreudia

spacetweek wrote: »

Yet we can now see the same happening with the M20.

It's about time this austerity nonsense was put to bed and an increase in infrastructure spending was announced targeted at particularly bad bottlenecks in our national network.

One interesting thing I noticed back in 2012 was that the Newlands/Wicklow Arklow PPP package was described as being part of a "government stimulus package". To qualify for that description it'd need to be new schemes not old ones that had been deferred for decades.

There seems to be no votes in infrastructure unless it is a local project.

veryangryman

spacetweek wrote: »

Just spent a pleasant hour skimming over the first 20-30 pages of this thread which started in 2006. Really shocking how this particular scheme was pushed back over and over again - despite being a very dangerous road with a high traffic volume.

Yet we can now see the same happening with the M20.

It's about time this austerity nonsense was put to bed and an increase in infrastructure spending was announced targetted at particularly bad bottlenecks in our national network.

One interesting thing I noticed back in 2012 was that the Newlands/Wicklow Arklow PPP package was described as being part of a "government stimulus package". To qualify for that description it'd need to be new schemes not old ones that had been deferred for decades.

Well said. The rates we pay for tax and VAT (don't forget the 23% rate shows no sign of going down), plus fuel and motor tax, we should have lavish roads at this stage. All of the Atlantic Corridoor should be shovel ready (at worst) at this point.

TechnoFreek

New road meets old road at northern end

vickers209

Not sure how long this newsletter up dated may 15
http://www.n7n11.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/09-BAM-N11-May15-Newsletter-Print.pdf
Updates on website seems to have stalled?

TechnoFreek

Thanks, reading that would make you think they're ahead of schedule, specifically the point about their main focus being pavements, fencing, lighting etc

TechnoFreek

I see a tarmac ramp has been created north of the bee hive that leads on to the south lane of the new road. I guess this is to allow workers access to that section when north bound traffic is moved to across the bridge at the bee hive and on to the new section of motorway.

Also in a stretch coming up to the bee hive heading north, there appears to be a white line of paint at the median side.

vickers209

Just drove back through there no photos weather too bad.

There is a white line painted on the inside closest to the median barrier has the rumble strips on it too
it starts at the beehive and last place I seen it was at the bends before the tap after the tap I seen it no longer .

The median barrier has been brought up to join the tie in end at rathnew end looks like it's nearly ready to open to northbound traffic soon but no lines painted here yet though

TechnoFreek

Road markings down and large blue motorway signage up on northern end. Still look is like a little bit of work to do at join.

Lights erected all around the bee hive junction and overbridge.

vickers209

From tomorrow it says new section beehive to Rathnew tie in be open.

Beehive Junction

From Friday June 5th, 2015 northbound N11 traffic will be directed over the new structure and onto the new motorway via the northbound merge ramp.

http://www.n7n11.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/Beehive-Temp-Diversion-R2.pdf

Websites been updated at last

Traffic Management Updates



Section A – N11 from north of the Arklow Bypass to the south end of the Ashford Rathnew Scheme:

Southern tie in Works of Arklow Bypass to new M11 (Junction 20 North)

In late June early July north and southbound traffic shall be diverted at Junction 20 (Arklow North) onto the R772 to facilitate the tie in of the new and old motorways and the upgrade of the section from Junction 20 north to the new Works (signs, line marking, studs etc.). It is anticipated that this will take one to two weeks.

Existing N11 from Scratenagh to Jack Whites Junction

Works to install a new piped culvert beneath the old N11 (proposed R772) shall necessitate some temporary traffic management in Quarter 3 2015. Details of the Temporary Traffic Management Scheme (TTMS) are shown below.

Kilmurray Overbridge

Over the coming weeks some Stop Go works will take place off peak to facilitate sign, barrier and public lighting works.

Scratenagh Overbridge

Over the coming weeks some Stop Go works will take place off peak to facilitate sign, barrier and public lighting works.

Northern Tie in to Ashford-Rathnew Motorway

Over the weekend of June 5th-June 7th southbound traffic will be diverted to the west via a temporary ramp to facilitate the construction of the new southbound diverge ramp for the Beehive Interchange.


The remaining Beehive Interchange Northern roundabout will also be constructed during this phasing of the works.


Minor Temporary Traffic Management Arrangements continue to be installed and removed site wide to facilitate the tie in of new local roads, new access tracks, erection of new signs, lighting columns and vehicle barriers.

jd

This is surely looking like an August opening, maybe in time for the next Bank Holiday weekend?

TechnoFreek

jd wrote: »

This is surely looking like an August opening, maybe in time for the next Bank Holiday weekend?

Yeah defo not end June anyway with the references to July and q3 in the latest update.

To be fair though, seeing the signage and road marking today made me feel for the first time that the end is in sight.

badgerbroc11

vickers209 wrote: »

From tomorrow it says new section beehive to Rathnew tie in be open.



Websites been updated at last

Southern tie in Works of Arklow Bypass to new M11 (Junction 20 North)

In late June early July north and southbound traffic shall be diverted at Junction 20 (Arklow North) onto the R772 to facilitate the tie in of the new and old motorways and the upgrade of the section from Junction 20 north to the new Works (signs, line marking, studs etc.). It is anticipated that this will take one to two weeks.

If this work begins early July and is only going to take two weeks we'll be on the new motorway mid July

PoolDude

badgerbroc11 wrote: »

If this work begins early July and is only going to take two weeks we'll be on the new motorway mid July

Thought the exact same thing - this is surely the last piece of work before they open it.

jd

PoolDude wrote: »

Thought the exact same thing - this is surely the last piece of work before they open it.

Wouldn't there have to be a final safety inspection/audit before approval is given to open it? Also wouldn't alternative route for non-motorway traffic have to be fully completed too?

Lat week in July before Bank Holiday weekend would be great.

Carawaystick

The alternative route is in place, bar the tie in's at each end. It's the existing N11, and the old n11 from J20 to the Ballymoyle lane junction.

If traffic is being routed onto the northern end from the Beehive today, then the opening can't be too far away.

TechnoFreek

Bee hive northbound section open as I passed this afternoon. Looks like one lane only open.

hdowney

Yup one lane only until you merge onto the old M11 section. Was on it earlier.

vickers209

Not my photos found on f book

Balinamessda bends



Barndarrig

Reuben1210

Anyone have any new photos of the northern or southern tie-ins?

loyatemu

Interesting that they've replaced a notorious set of bends with an extremely bendy bit of new road (I appreciate they're restricted by the topography and the pictures are probably compressing perspective).

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Poochie05

loyatemu wrote: »

Interesting that they've replaced a notorious set of bends with an extremely bendy bit of new road (I appreciate they're restricted by the topography and the pictures are probably compressing perspective).

Was just thinking the same thing! Balinanmeesda Bends 2.0!

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Reuben1210

It was engineered to motorway standard, so I'm sure it just looks deceiving, but it actually very smooth to drive!

L1011

Photos foreshorten. That'll be 120