House have been up for sale for past 6 months

xoxyx

How do you know what the OP is or isn't aware of. A good discussion covers all angles.

Anyway, wasn't aimed towards the OP specifically. General points countering bad advice.

Duckjob

Treehouse72 wrote: »

woolyhat, the price of the house during the bubble is of no consequence whatsoever. And I mean none. The price during the bubble is not a reasonable basis to make a valuation for Autumn 2010. You need to start over in your valuation and try to get the bubble out of your mind. Forget about it.

A well respected valuation method is based on Yield, which is the return an investor would get on the property (or an equivalent property) by renting it out. Yield is calculated by: Annual Rent/Value of Property = Yield. A Yield of around 6% (gross) is a reasonable return for an investor who is renting a property out. Some people argue a 5% yield is ok nowadays, others say 7% is. Whatever, you can work out a valuation based on all three yields to get a range of valuations and tweak depending on your specific property.

The easiest shorthand way to work this calculation out is simply to mulitply Annual Rent by 14, 16 and 18 (calculate Annual Rent over 11 months, not 12, to allow for 1 month void annually). If you want a rundown on where those 14, 16 and 18 numbers come from, I'll run through it. But basically they solve for Yields of 7%, 6% and 5% respectively. In all likelihood the true value of your property lies somewhere in that range.

This method works best when the property has equivalents for rent. That however covers a very, very large proportion of all dwellings in Ireland. If you live in a castle on Inis Boffin it mightn't work so well.

In fairness, that formula tends to represent a fairly bearish outlook on where prices might be heading. While you can argue about how close prices will actually come to those levels, it's probably fair to say that today's clearing prices are still a good bit above that.

Really, all the OP has to do is lower his price aggressively until he gets a decent level of interest. I agree he needs to put aside comparisons of how much it was worth in boom times though.


.

woolyhat

I built on a extention to the house some years ago and it cost 36,000.00 pounds at the time. The house up the road which for sale is priced higher than mine onely have 2 bedrooms a very basic house. I built on (two story) A bedroom on-suite a bathroom, kitchen and utility and a realy big Garden room also all electrical items are included in the sale as no point takeing out built ins. timber floors etc.
If I consider the cost of the extention and contntents of the house it would onely put the value on the original house without what work have been done at around 53,000.00 even a derilict site would sell for more than that,and I live beside a 5 star hotel

Oafley Jones

z_topaz wrote: »

What a pile of b0llocks. Do you not realise that the price which is right for the buyer may be completely wrong for the seller. That's very bad advice from you I reckon.

He seems perfectly correct to me.

Treehouse72

z_topaz wrote: »

What a pile of b0llocks. Do you not realise that the price which is right for the buyer may be completely wrong for the seller. That's very bad advice from you I reckon.

Of course, if sombody is looking to sell their house for an unreasonable amount, they need to drop their price. But rather than dropping the price below their budget simply to sell (as you suggest), they should stay put if at all possible. Prices fluctuate, circumstances change. No need to go for broke which is essentially what you're suggesting.

I appreciate that there may be extraneous issues which mean the OP has to move, in which case, by all means, go with your suggestion. But that only applies in desperate situations.

Wow, what a rude and incoherent post for one that is so light on content and that seems to have so little grasp of how supply, demand and price work. If you are going to insult me, at least put some meat on the bones of your argument.

Anyway, thanks for reminding everyone that sellers always want more than buyers are willing to offer. If you have any more devastating insights like this, be sure to report back.

In the meantime, please try to understand this: I am talking about ACTUALLY SELLING the property. You are talking about picking a number out of the air, calling that your "asking price" and sticking the house on Daft. That is an entirely different thing. If you want to sell the house, follow my advice. If you want it to sit on Daft for months waiting for the property boom to return, do as Topaz suggests.

Oafley Jones

Treehouse72 wrote: »

Wow, what a rude and incoherent post for one that is so light on content and that seems to have so little grasp of how supply, demand and price work. If you are going to insult me, at least put some meat on the bones of your argument.

Anyway, thanks for reminding everyone that sellers always want more than buyers are willing to offer. If you have any more devastating insights like this, be sure to report back.

In the meantime, please try to understand this: I am talking about ACTUALLY SELLING the property. You are talking about picking a number out of the air, calling that your "asking price" and sticking the house on Daft. That is an entirely different thing. If you want to sell the house, follow my advice. If you want it to sit on Daft for months waiting for the property boom to return, do as Topaz suggests.

The highlighted part actually produced an audible WTF? from me, pure fortune cookie rubbish. Actually, the more I think about it, it sounds exactly like something you'd hear form Karl Pilkington.

Treehouse72

Duckjob wrote: »

In fairness, that formula tends to represent a fairly bearish outlook on where prices might be heading. While you can argue about how close prices will actually come to those levels, it's probably fair to say that today's clearing prices are still a good bit above that.

Really, all the OP has to do is lower his price aggressively until he gets a decent level of interest. I agree he needs to put aside comparisons of how much it was worth in boom times though.


.

You may be right Duckjob, but even if one were to use far more bullish Yield calculations the property would still likely come out valued 30% - 50% below current asking. So even if my numbers are overly bearish, even a more optimistic metric won't change the fundamental point that the property is likely massively overpriced.

woolyhat

woolyhat wrote: »

I built on a extention to the house some years ago and it cost 36,000.00 pounds at the time. The house up the road which for sale is priced higher than mine onely have 2 bedrooms a very basic house. I built on (two story) A bedroom on-suite a bathroom, kitchen and utility and a realy big Garden room also all electrical items are included in the sale as no point takeing out built ins. timber floors etc.
If I consider the cost of the extention and contntents of the house it would onely put the value on the original house without what work have been done at around 53,000.00 even a derilict site would sell for more than that,and I live beside a 5 star hotel

There is a realy tiny house just 3min walk away from wher I live 70,000.00 more than mine and no garden front or back also no place to park

Ideo

wollyhat post a link to your house! you keep comparing your house to other houses that are more expensive than yours and just because the asking on those houses is more does not mean that those houses are worth it. you will get a better response here if we can judge the house for ourselves

woolyhat

Ideo wrote: »

wollyhat post a link to your house! you keep comparing your house to other houses that are more expensive than yours and just because the asking on those houses is more does not mean that those houses are worth it. you will get a better response here if we can judge the house for ourselves

This would reveal my identity and I would like to remain private. Hope everyone will understand my position

Treehouse72

Of course, that's perfectly natural woolyhat.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

woolyhat wrote: »

This would reveal my identity and I would like to remain private. Hope everyone will understand my position

Look, its not like you are Batman!!

It seems to me that you are just on here to justify what your asking price is. You need to understand that other property prices in your area are also deluded.

You keep posting "examples" of other inferior houses in your area that are asking for more than you.

Ask yourself this...If your house is as wonderful as you are making it out to be, then why has it not sold?

Sorry to be blunt but without pics this is my conclusion:

ANSWER:
It is NOT worth the asking price......if you are desperate to sell, then you know what to do.

Also, I see your have another thread about your dream house, with some very specific characteristics. You are essentially looking for a great house in a great location for little money......join the queue! Apply this logic to the house you are selling.

Treehouse72

benwavner wrote: »

Look, its not like you are Batman!!

It seems to me that you are just on here to justify what your asking price is. You need to understand that other property prices in your area are also deluded.

You keep posting "examples" of other inferior houses in your area that are asking for more than you.

Ask yourself this...If your house is as wonderful as you are making it out to be, then why has it not sold?

Sorry to be blunt but without pics this is my conclusion:

ANSWER:
It is NOT worth the asking price......if you are desperate to sell, then you know what to do.

Also, I see your have another thread about your dream house, with some very specific characteristics. You are essentially looking for a great house in a great location for little money......join the queue! Apply this logic to the house you are selling.

Harsh, but fair.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Treehouse72 wrote: »

Harsh, but fair.

Actually after a re-read, it did come across as harsh which was not my intention.

Im house hunting at the moment and my experiences of vendors so far is shocking. Some even refusing to budge 10% lower than the asking price, even though the property is crazy overpriced and it has been on the market over a year.

Some people are nuts.

woolyhat

benwavner wrote: »

Look, its not like you are Batman!!

It seems to me that you are just on here to justify what your asking price is. You need to understand that other property prices in your area are also deluded.

You keep posting "examples" of other inferior houses in your area that are asking for more than you.

Ask yourself this...If your house is as wonderful as you are making it out to be, then why has it not sold?

Sorry to be blunt but without pics this is my conclusion:

ANSWER:
It is NOT worth the asking price......if you are desperate to sell, then you know what to do.

Also, I see your have another thread about your dream house, with some very specific characteristics. You are essentially looking for a great house in a great location for little money......join the queue! Apply this logic to the house you are selling.

You do not know why anyone want to move from a area maybe they lost a loved one and want to get away, a broken unhappy relationship, several reasons. The house and price and area may be fine just other things hard to deal with. Why should I not want to get a house as near to my dreams. and I never said I was looking for a house onely spending little money. what I get for my own is what I will be able to afford.
There is nothing in the market which would be liveable for 99,000.00

Praetorian Saighdiuir

woolyhat wrote: »

You do not know why anyone want to move from a area maybe they lost a loved one and want to get away, a broken unhappy relationship, several reasons. The house and price and area may be fine just other things hard to deal with. Why should I not want to get a house as near to my dreams. and I never said I was looking for a house onely spending little money. what I get for my own is what I will be able to afford. There is nothing in the market which would be liveable for 99,000.00

"You do not know why anyone want to move from a area maybe they lost a loved one and want to get away, a broken unhappy relationship, several reasons. The house and price and area may be fine just other things hard to deal with"

I have no idea what your point is there! If someone wanted to sell quickly for any of these reasons above , im sure they would sell and not hold on indefinately for an extra €30k


"Why should I not want to get a house as near to my dreams"

I agree, I think we all should, that was my point, but at a realistic price.


"and I never said I was looking for a house onely spending little money. what I get for my own is what I will be able to afford. There is nothing in the market which would be liveable for 99,000.00"

My point was that we all want a great house for as little money as we can, which is why potential buyers are put off by overpriced properties, even if yours is nicer than your neighbours. My point about your dream house was that we all have ideal criteria when looking to buy a house. I have x amount of money and I would like to be near x and x and x and x etc. So, this is also what people are thinking when viewing you house. Does it tick all of their wants and needs and ideals? maybe, maybe not. But the deciding factor is price.

alex73

Problem is with House prices still falling and Cost of borrowing rising people are nervous buying. There was an estate in sligo where the 4 bedroom house were sold of at half price for 125K and they all sold the same day.. At the end of the day the house will sell if the price is right, its easier to get a mortgage for 125K than for 250K. My mortage is 140K with 13 year left and I pay 823 euros a month, (ECB tracker) same mortage in todays terms would be 1100 euros a month. Property is never going to be the same in Ireland again.

woolyhat

benwavner I am not holding out to get another 30,000.00 What I meant originaly was that I would be willing to come to a reasonable agreement in price with the buyer makeing a offer lower than the asking price and we eventualy agrreing on a price that we were both happy with. after all it was the auctioneer who valued my house to start with. I am of course willing to drop the price I do want to sell

Blackjack

woolyhat wrote: »

benwavner I am not holding out to get another 30,000.00 What I meant originaly was that I would be willing to come to a reasonable agreement in price with the buyer makeing a offer lower than the asking price and we eventualy agrreing on a price that we were both happy with. after all it was the auctioneer who valued my house to start with. I am of course willing to drop the price I do want to sell

Without knowing what or where you are selling (as you're not willing to tell - which I understand to an extent), the best advise I can give if you need to sell is to drop the price by whatever it takes to generate interest.
I can't suggest to you what that might be, although if places are only renting for 500 a month now, the earlier valuation of 90K is pretty much where I would be headed.

If you want to sell, drop the price to at least 15% below the last asking price of a similar property sold recently in your area.

SoupyNorman

Hi woolyhat, I've read through the thread. Firstly I dont think you are one of the totally delusional sellers on the market however you are still basing your selling price on local prices and trends, this is wrong.

If you want to sell your house, drop the price to €150k. I think you'll make a profit if you do this, I say profit because if you decide to hold on then I think the market will eventually level off close to the rental yield valuation model which was mentioned in the thread to be €90k approx.

I can appreciate that it's a difficult notion to comprehend, but in my view I dont think there will be many 3 bed semis in Dublin fetching more then €150k in 3years.

Average Dublin house prices are EUR 242,000 and falling slowly(but steadily), EUR 181,820 outside Dublin. The fall in prices has slowed but I wouldn't read into that with sellers optimism, the 'faster' falls in prices were mainly to do with the super-normal house prices of the bubble, like the froth being blown off the cappuccino as a poster said once which I thought was an excellent metaphor.

End of the day the market is an unstoppable force, it will do what it wants/needs to do to correct itself. The only way you can beat it is if you jump the gun and slash the price..if however you want to play the 'tweak my price' game then I fear you're headed for a long and depressing journey.


You have to prepare yourself for the fact that nobody may ever want to buy your house no matter the price, this country is oversupplied to a truly sickening level.

woolyhat

I think you are right in what you are saying.The way things are going.
( The houses in some new estates are very badely built some near me are dreadful roofing falling down sewage pipes exposed after the rain the were not put down deep enough , alot of bad workmanship)
Yesterday evening I got a offer to rent my house I would get 150.00 PW.(It was they made the offer of 150.00PW) Now I'm in a delima, this is tempting until I sort myself out after all I don't even know where I am going or have a new house to go to. But I do want to move and get away from here altogether.
The person wanting to rent is a family the man got a job in the hotel beside me, it would be ideal for them no need for a car a supermarket beside them schools 3min walk.






Please let me know ideas on what is the best thing to do

Duckjob

Treehouse72 wrote: »

You may be right Duckjob, but even if one were to use far more bullish Yield calculations the property would still likely come out valued 30% - 50% below current asking. So even if my numbers are overly bearish, even a more optimistic metric won't change the fundamental point that the property is likely massively overpriced.

I agree with you. Just making the point that if the OP was to use that metric to determine his asking, he would likely be throwing away good money as it's likely he could realistically achieve quite a bit more than that in the current market.

In the post just above, OP says he's been offered rent of 150pw. So, even taking those metrics:
150 * 48 * 14 = 100800
150 * 48 * 16 = 115200
150 * 48 * 18 = 129600.
I'd say it's highly unlikely OP would need to lower his price to anything like those prices to get a sale today. In reality, he might start getting bites at 185-210k and serious interest at 170k - 185k. I'm just guessing as we don't have exact details of the property, but you get my general point.

Of course, prices are sliding daily, so key is OP finding that clearing level quickly. If he dilly-dallies around he could end up following the market down to God knows where.

Treehouse72

Duckjob wrote: »

I agree with you. Just making the point that if the OP was to use that metric to determine his asking, he would likely be throwing away good money as it's likely he could realistically achieve quite a bit more than that in the current market.

In the post just above, OP says he's been offered rent of 150pw. So, even taking those metrics:
150 * 48 * 14 = 100800
150 * 48 * 16 = 115200
150 * 48 * 18 = 129600.
I'd say it's highly unlikely OP would need to lower his price to anything like those prices to get a sale today. In reality, he might start getting bites at 185-210k and serious interest at 170k - 185k. I'm just guessing as we don't have exact details of the property, but you get my general point.

Of course, prices are sliding daily, so key is OP finding that clearing level quickly. If he dilly-dallies around he could end up following the market down to God knows where.

Sure, I wouldn't disagree with any of that (other than to say I worked out yield for €500pm as OP said earlier the rent range was €450-€500. At €600pm that does raise the valuations a bit)

But yeah, I agree it would probably clear above those prices on the basis that the Yield suggests what the properties will be worth when we're at the bottom, which is still some way away. So I agree with you that to ensure a sale €170-€185 might well do the trick, but only because there are still a few greater fools left out there (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory).

woolyhat

Treehouse72 wrote: »

Sure, I wouldn't disagree with any of that (other than to say I worked out yield for €500pm as OP said earlier the rent range was €450-€500. At €600pm that does raise the valuations a bit)

But yeah, I agree it would probably clear above those prices on the basis that the Yield suggests what the properties will be worth when we're at the bottom, which is still some way away. So I agree with you that to ensure a sale €170-€185 might well do the trick, but only because there are still a few greater fools left out there (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory).

If I did get between 170,000.00 and 185,000.00 what would be left out of this after solicitor fees and stamp duty for new property furniture removal if I needed to sell without furniture.and also would need to furnish a new home what would I realy be able to afford?
At this stage in my life I would not be able to borrow (age over 45) and onely have part time work with not much guarintee I will have work in the future and on social welfare
If it onely concerned myself maybe ok but have 2 dependants still in college.
Most seem to think move now before prices go down even further?

munstergirl

If you sell your house you don't need to buy straight away, rent for a while to make sure you like new area.

Head The Wall

Your only option is to sell what you have, hopefully you can clear your mortgage and start renting. You won't get a mortgage if you are only working part time.

PopUp

Woolyhat if you are on social welfare and unable to get more than part-time work for the foreseeable future, why are you trying to buy your 'dream house' right now? It doesn't sound like the right time for you.

johndaman66

Woolyhat just to add my thoughts and reiterate what a few other posters have mentioned I think the best way you can sell your house is to price it at what the market will bear and a price that can realistically generate interest and viewings. You seem to be getting very hung up on the asking price of a few other houses in the vicinity which I do see as a bit of a pointless exercise. Whereas your asking price might be deluded (do pardon my harsh wording but I am making a general assumption based on the limited information I have available) the prices of these other properties may be totally deluded. Its hardly relevant to draw conclusions on your asking price from these properties if they have being on the market for the past year or longer with little or no interst or viewings. A more practical approach might be to look at whats selling and the selling prices if you could acquire such information.

woolyhat

PopUp wrote: »

Woolyhat if you are on social welfare and unable to get more than part-time work for the foreseeable future, why are you trying to buy your 'dream house' right now? It doesn't sound like the right time for you.

I feel time is moveing on quickely and I will never acheive any of the things I want in life do not want to look back and think I stayed in the same place all my life done nothing much with my time lived in the same house as my parents and granparents.
I suppose I feel my dream is now more acheiveable when house prices are getting lower, but of course the value of my home is dropping too.

woolyhat

johndaman66 wrote: »

Woolyhat just to add my thoughts and reiterate what a few other posters have mentioned I think the best way you can sell your house is to price it at what the market will bear and a price that can realistically generate interest and viewings. You seem to be getting very hung up on the asking price of a few other houses in the vicinity which I do see as a bit of a pointless exercise. Whereas your asking price might be deluded (do pardon my harsh wording but I am making a general assumption based on the limited information I have available) the prices of these other properties may be totally deluded. Its hardly relevant to draw conclusions on your asking price from these properties if they have being on the market for the past year or longer with little or no interst or viewings. A more practical approach might be to look at whats selling and the selling prices if you could acquire such information.

Nothing have sold anywhere here I would even say since the boom and ther are some real bargains. There is not much employment and it is rural area. but very beautiful scenery in the area