How do people still belive in God?

Raiser

orourkeda wrote: »

Can science prove the existence of a god?

Surely Science has better things to be considering other than the preposterous notion that there exists a being along the absurd and nonsensical lines of the 'God' Figure as described in the Bible; Most especially the Old Testament which is even more insane and bizarre than its half-arséd sequel?

Craptacular

orourkeda wrote: »

Can science prove the existence of a god?

Science can prove very little. Can science prove the existence of time? Can science prove the colour red I see is the same colour red you see? Can science prove the dinosaurs didn't have an advanced society? If matter cannot be created or destroyed then where did the universe come from? Etc, etc. Screw science. It's just a bunch of people in white coats making claims that neither you nor I will ever verify. E=MC2? Why? Because some bloke nobody here ever met said it? Well I guess we'll all just believe him then.

orourkeda

genericguy wrote: »

using logic to state one's non-belief in something lends far more credence to their argument than the old "it just is" argument presented by the religious.

It appears that his argument is based more on bitterness and disenchantment than logic. He has the look of someone who just grew fed up with the idea of religion for whatever reason. His arguments are as much to do with cyncism as they are with logic.

Pete M.

orourkeda wrote: »

Can science prove the existence of a god?

Has the person using all this wonderful logic and science got a greater insight into the existence of a god or higher being.

Or rather can science disprove the existence of God?

Lots of folks round these here aprts seem to believe anyway,regardless of the evidence, so we'd have to convince them otherwise.

Also, you'd have to have a tight old spec on what exactly God is to disprove it.

Old Albert's way of looking at it was not a bad one for running with.....

"I cannot conceive of a personal God who would directly influence the actions of individuals, or would directly sit in judgment on creatures of his own creation. I cannot do this in spite of the fact that mechanistic causality has, to a certain extent, been placed in doubt by modern science. [He was speaking of Quantum Mechanics and the breaking down of determinism.] My religiosity consists in a humble admiration of the infinitely superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we, with our weak and transitory understanding, can comprehend of reality. Morality is of the highest importance -- but for us, not for God. A.E.


http://www.spaceandmotion.com/albert-einstein-god-religion-theology.htm

Or am I getting this wrong and as the title says 'belive in God' means some sort of freaky religious way of living in God, whatever that would mean....

orourkeda

Raiser wrote: »

Surely Science has better things to be considering other than the preposterous notion that there exists a being along the absurd and nonsensical lines of the 'God' Figure as described in the Bible; Most especially the Old Testament which is even more insane and bizarre than its half-arséd sequel?

This may be you belief but nobody here can be certain of this.

Ush1

orourkeda wrote: »

It appears that his argument is based more on bitterness and disenchantment than logic. He has the look of someone who just grew fed up with the idea of religion for whatever reason. His arguments are as much to do with cyncism as they are with logic.

Whos arguements?

orourkeda

Pete M. wrote: »

Or rather can science disprove the existence of God?

Lots of folks round these here aprts seem to believe anyway,regardless of the evidence, so we'd have to convince them otherwise.

Also, you'd have to have a tight old spec on what exactly God is to disprove it.

Old Albert's way of looking at it was not a bad one for running with.....

"I cannot conceive of a personal God who would directly influence the actions of individuals, or would directly sit in judgment on creatures of his own creation. I cannot do this in spite of the fact that mechanistic causality has, to a certain extent, been placed in doubt by modern science. [He was speaking of Quantum Mechanics and the breaking down of determinism.] My religiosity consists in a humble admiration of the infinitely superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we, with our weak and transitory understanding, can comprehend of reality. Morality is of the highest importance -- but for us, not for God. A.E.


http://www.spaceandmotion.com/albert-einstein-god-religion-theology.htm

Or am I getting this wrong and as the title says 'belive in God' means some sort of freaky religious way of living in God, whatever that would mean....

This is my whole argument.

The only way people have of either proving or disproving the existence of a higher power is by seeing or gaining irrefutable eveidence that it doesnt exist. Otherwise we can only speculate.

orourkeda

Craptacular wrote: »

Science can prove very little. Can science prove the existence of time? Can science prove the colour red I see is the same colour red you see? Can science prove the dinosaurs didn't have an advanced society? If matter cannot be created or destroyed then where did the universe come from? Etc, etc. Screw science. It's just a bunch of people in white coats making claims that neither you not I will ever verify. E=MC2? Why? Because some bloke nobody here ever met said it? Well I guess we'll all just believe him then.

Then why do so many people here lend it so much credence

genericguy

Craptacular wrote: »

Science can prove very little. Can science prove the existence of time? Can science prove the colour red I see is the same colour red you see? Can science prove the dinosaurs didn't have an advanced society? If matter cannot be created or destroyed then where did the universe come from? Etc, etc. Screw science. It's just a bunch of people in white coats making claims that neither you not I will ever verify. E=MC2? Why? Because some bloke nobody here ever met said it? Well I guess we'll all just believe him then.

please read the emboldened sentence again, then think carefully about it.

and the thing about science is that claims are investigated, then assessed experimentally, results of said experiments are reproduced in controlled conditions repeatedly before the findings are considered fact. and you could verify what blokes in white coats tell you, because with all publications they give the exact recipe to reproduce these things yourself.

orourkeda

Raiser wrote: »

Surely Science has better things to be considering other than the preposterous notion that there exists a being along the absurd and nonsensical lines of the 'God' Figure as described in the Bible; Most especially the Old Testament which is even more insane and bizarre than its half-arséd sequel?

Science hasnt found a cure for cancer yet let alone prove whether god exists or not.

Ush1

orourkeda wrote: »

This is my whole argument.

The only way people have of either proving or disproving the existence of a higher power is by seeing or gaining irrefutable eveidence that it doesnt exist. Otherwise we can only speculate.

Yes, yes we can, with probability. The existence of God is so unlikely it is negligible.

Why are we still going round in these same circles???

DrumSteve

kjl wrote: »

I have been wondering recently how does anyone think god exists. Like I can understand when we were back in the stupid ages before we knew what we know now, but how does anyone with an iq over 10 still believe nowadays?

I was on Grafton street last Saturday and there were a bunch of guys holding the "John 3:7" signs, I decided to question them. I made a lot of valid points to them which they completely ignored and feed me a bunch of circular reasoning to prove they were right.

Can anyone here who still believes explain your justification

Were they off the the GAA?

Ush1

orourkeda wrote: »

Then why do so many people here lend it so much credence

Oh my God(sic;)), you didn't just make that statement.:pac:

Why do so many people have faith in science??? Look at the world around you man.

Ush1

orourkeda wrote: »

Science hasnt found a cure for cancer yet let alone prove whether god exists or not.

Just speechless.

orourkeda

Ush1 wrote: »

No, not according to me, according to science. The principles of how rational people and society governs itself.

We're talking about a George Carlin stand up routine here.

genericguy

Ush1 wrote: »

Oh my God(sic;)), you didn't just make that statement.:pac:

Why do so many people have faith in science??? Look at the world around you man.

he's being balanced (i think). orourkeda would i be right in suggesting you'd be more agnostic than anything else?

orourkeda

Ush1 wrote: »

Oh my God(sic;)), you didn't just make that statement.:pac:

Why do so many people have faith in science??? Look at the world around you man.

I didnt mean it like that. I mean why is scientific discourse used to justify atheism.

I'm not dissing science as a subject. I have qualiifications in the damn subject.

orourkeda

genericguy wrote: »

he's being balanced (i think). orourkeda would i be right in suggesting you'd be more agnostic than anything else?

yes

orourkeda

Ush1 wrote: »

Yes, yes we can, with probability. The existence of God is so unlikely it is negligible.

Why are we still going round in these same circles???

What is the basis for this statement?

genericguy

orourkeda wrote: »

I didnt mean it like that. I mean why is scientific discourse used to justify atheism.

because religion demands that science be disregarded, making it the direct enemy of science. so, if the enemy has been correct when examining all other claims made by holy books, then the balance of probability says that those books will have been wrong about the existence of an all-powerful warlord sitting in the clouds.

and so many people have faith in science due to its reproducibililty, the openness of the scientific community to correction, and the continuing efforts of scientists to advance knowledge.

then you have a cnut like the pope hounding people for carrying out scientific research - well i hope when the cnut gets cancer he doesn't have the cheek to take any meds, cos they don't come from any magical man in the sky.

AudreyHepburn

kjl wrote: »

I have been wondering recently how does anyone think god exists. Like I can understand when we were back in the stupid ages before we knew what we know now, but how does anyone with an iq over 10 still believe nowadays?

I was on Grafton street last Saturday and there were a bunch of guys holding the "John 3:7" signs, I decided to question them. I made a lot of valid points to them which they completely ignored and feed me a bunch of circular reasoning to prove they were right.

Can anyone here who still believes explain your justification

Why should people of faith have to justify ourselves to you or anyone else? Why to athiests/agnostics feel they can take the high ground all the time?

I believe in God because I choose to. No-one forces me into it. I don't KNOW that he exist anymore than you KNOW he doesn't. But I BELIEVE he does. But I am also an intelligent woman, I don't take the bible literally but see it as a guide on how to live life.

I have no problem with anyone who doesn't believe in God and am extremely tolerant of those with ideas and beliefs. Perhaps KJL you need to look at your own predjudaces and intolerances before you critise anyone else.

If you can give me 100% doubtless proof that God doesn't exist then, and only then, will I stop believing in him. But you can't, any more than I can prove he does.

Let people believe what they want. If it doesn't hurt you or anyone else what does it matter to you?

aidoh

Craptacular wrote: »

Science can prove very little. Can science prove the existence of time? Can science prove the colour red I see is the same colour red you see? Can science prove the dinosaurs didn't have an advanced society? If matter cannot be created or destroyed then where did the universe come from? Etc, etc. Screw science. It's just a bunch of people in white coats making claims that neither you not I will ever verify. E=MC2? Why? Because some bloke nobody here ever met said it? Well I guess we'll all just believe him then.

This is a pretty ridiculous statement, in fairness. The keyboard you're typing on would have been programmed by someone with a computer science degree I'm sure. Physicists can of course prove colour interperatation by examining wavelengths. E=MC2 is one of the most elegant formulae ever written. What does any of this have to do with a God? It really annoys me when people have these religion vs. science debates.

There are scientists who are religious and there are lay people who are atheists. The philosophy of science has better things to do than constantly have to defend its findings on fossils, cosmology etc. etc. to people who are offended because it doesn't agree with THEIR idea of truth. Take evolution for example: it has been more or less universally adopted by all science disciplines and is central to understanding any biological system - including humans. Many atheists will say they 'believe in' evolution, but I think this is mainly because they are too opinionated to understand that it isn't a case of belief. You don't believe in rain, you don't believe in the chair you're sitting on, because they aren't a matter of opinion - they just exist and that's that.

It's the same with evolution, but many loudmouths use as a form of religion just to stick a finger up to the 'idiots' that believe in God. I study zoology so I have a somewhat intimate understanding of evolution and from what I have learned first hand (not by watching religulous or reading the God Delusion), I don't believe in any creator myths.

But, OP, you can't just go around calling people idiots because they do. You'll never learn anything if all you want to do is call people who believe in God idiots and push your own opinion, rather than having any sort of discussion on the subject.

Ush1

orourkeda wrote: »

I didnt mean it like that. I mean why is scientific discourse used to justify atheism.

What other method is there?

If you someone is accused of murder and brought to court, what methods do they use to ascertain guilt or innocence?

Raiser

orourkeda wrote: »

Science hasnt found a cure for cancer yet let alone prove whether god exists or not.

Have Theists or Theologians, or whoever, ever discussed Gods greater intentions in bestowing the evil gift of Childhood Leukaemia on so many while at the same time allowing Nazi War Criminals to die of Old Age in their plush, Seaside Argentine Villas?

A God who is happy to allow so much misery and suffering on so many levels, especially with so much of it being perpetrated upon the weakest and most defenceless Members of our Societies by those who purport to be his Messengers on Earth, isn't worth a split seconds consideration in my view.....

AudreyHepburn

kjl wrote: »

I hate to use this point again, but if a grown up told you they still believed in Santa, would you call them smart? Well that's how we feel about you. No offense.

Somehow I don't think we believers are the stupid ones!

If you don't believe fine, but seriously you need to come down of your pedestal before you fall.

aidoh

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Why should people of faith have to justify ourselves to you or anyone else? Why to athiests/agnostics feel they can take the high ground all the time?

I believe in God because I choose to. No-one forces me into it. I don't KNOW that he exist anymore than you KNOW he doesn't. But I BELIEVE he does. But I am also an intelligent woman, I don't take the bible literally but see it as a guide on how to live life.

I have no problem with anyone who doesn't believe in God and am extremely tolerant of those with ideas and beliefs. Perhaps KJL you need to look at your own predjudaces and intolerances before you critise anyone else.

If you can give me 100% doubtless proof that God doesn't exist then, and only then, will I stop believing in him. But you can't, any more than I can prove he does.

Let people believe what they want. If it doesn't hurt you or anyone else what does it matter to you?

These are the kind of Christians I like

AudreyHepburn

aidoh wrote: »

These are the kind of Christians I like

I'm assuming you're completing me? Not getting at you, but sometimes it's hard to know genuine comments from sarcasim on these types of threads

orourkeda

genericguy wrote: »

because religion demands that science be disregarded, making it the direct enemy of science. so, if the enemy has been correct when examining all other claims made by holy books, then the balance of probability says that those books will have been wrong about the existence of an all-powerful warlord sitting in the clouds.

But if we were ever to find evidence of this kind how could it be suppressed. Surely it couldnt be disregarded. Religion would then be rendered irrelevant.

Craptacular

genericguy wrote: »

please read the emboldened sentence again, then think carefully about it.

What? People on boards have met Einstein? Who?

genericguy wrote: »

and the thing about science is that claims are investigated, then assessed experimentally, results of said experiments are reproduced in controlled conditions repeatedly before the findings are considered fact. and you could verify what blokes in white coats tell you, because with all publications they give the exact recipe to reproduce these things yourself.

Yeah, that's the theory anyway. In reality how many scientists have verified the claims that, for example, gamblers lose more when drunk or that homeless people are more likely to die early?

The idea that claims can be verified is apparently evidence enough for many. After all, why waste hard fought funding to redo someone else's work?

gbee

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Why should people of faith have to justify ourselves to you or anyone else?

You shouldn't. Obey the laws of the land you are living in, pay your taxes and get judged by God on your death.

Now, wouldn't that be grand.