How do people still belive in God?

Millicent · 30-07-2010 4:53pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

How come people dont believe in bigfoot but believe in god is a more valid qeustion

Your definition of "a valid question" appears to differ from mine...

gbee · 30-07-2010 4:59pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

How come people dont believe in bigfoot but believe in god is a more valid qeustion

What's a bigfoot? If it is what I think it is, it has it's share of followings and may be the inspiration for the The Myth of Sisyphus.

Or the African God of the Mountains, maybe.

steddyeddy · 30-07-2010 4:59pm

Millicent wrote: »

Your definition of "a valid question" appears to differ from mine...

Yes mine requires you to think about it

Millicent · 30-07-2010 5:03pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yes mine requires you to think about it

Have you read the thread at all? There are plenty of valid and well thought out theories and arguments from both sides so far. Please stop trying to insult those you don't agree with it. It cheapens the argument.

Einhard · 30-07-2010 5:04pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yes mine requires you to think about it

You do realise that when you deliberatly try to be insulting to those who hold a different opinion, you run the risk of coming across as an arrogant ass?

Some people think that there is a direct correlation between atheism and IQ, and simply due to the former, they are somehow more intelligent that those who happen to believe. Ironically, judging by some of the comments on this thread, one could argue that it's actually the other way around.

steddyeddy · 30-07-2010 5:10pm

Millicent wrote: »

Have you read the thread at all? There are plenty of valid and well thought out theories and arguments from both sides so far. Please stop trying to insult those you don't agree with it. It cheapens the argument.

I have read through it and in no way am i out to insult anyone. I used to read a lot of richard dawkins books and articles but what turned me off him is the fact that he is overly agressive and can be quite insulting. to clarify my point Im a zoologist who beleives in bigfoot To put it better ( finds the evidence credible) and for hundreds of years skeptics have been attacking the idea that such a creature exists.

Now why is one phenomenom praised and universally accepted while another dismissed (im not trying to turn this into a bigfoot thread just making a point about the ineqaulity of beleif). To comapre the belief in god to another unproven entity is perfectly valid and not a insult.

Ush1 · 30-07-2010 5:10pm

barbiegirl wrote: »

My experience is quite private to me. If revolves around both the very good and very bad times I have been through. My belief is personnal to me and is not necessarily in line completly with any one church or belief. Whether God is an all seeing being, or the inner depth and strength you find inside yourself, or is to be found sitting on top of Three Rock enjoying the beauty of nature, or in the total devastation of my mother at the death of my father, he and my belief in Him (though he could be a she) is as a result of feeling his presence in my life.
But that is just me, everyone's experiences and lifes are different. It is a mixture of emotions and experience.
However do not get belief in God confused with the institution of church. The institutions are run by men, men are fallible and as we all know power corrupts, so don't look to the top for demonstrations on what faith in God means but rather look to those doing small inconsequential things in their daily lives.

This is fine.
Your beliefs are fine and I would not attack them or anything like it.

The only time it gets my back up is when people make false claims which directly conflict with science.

steddyeddy · 30-07-2010 5:11pm

Einhard wrote: »

You do realise that when you deliberatly try to be insulting to those who hold a different opinion, you run the risk of coming across as an arrogant ass?

Some people think that there is a direct correlation between atheism and IQ, and simply due to the former, they are somehow more intelligent that those who happen to believe. Ironically, judging by some of the comments on this thread, one could argue that it's actually the other way around.

How am i insulting people?? there is no direct link between intellignece and iq you assumed i suggested that people who beleive in bigfoot like me are stupid!

the fact that people thought i was being insulting backs up my point that one belief is held above another without good reason

I_AmThe_Walrus · 30-07-2010 5:12pm

I don't believe in magic,
I don't believe in I-ching,
I don't believe in the bible,
I don't believe in tarots,
I don't believe in Hitler,
I don't believe in Jesus,
I don't believe in Kennedy,
I don't believe in Buddha,
I don't believe in mantra,
I don't believe in Gita,
I don't believe in yoga,
I don't believe in kings,
I don't believe in friends,

I just believe in ME....

Because THAT'S REALITY.

Einhard · 30-07-2010 5:15pm

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

I don't believe in magic,
I don't believe in I-ching,
I don't believe in the bible,
I don't believe in tarots,
I don't believe in Hitler,
I don't believe in Jesus,
I don't believe in Kennedy,
I don't believe in Buddha,
I don't believe in mantra,
I don't believe in Gita,
I don't believe in yoga,
I don't believe in kings,
I don't believe in friends,

I just believe in ME....

Because THAT'S REALITY.

Descartes might have disagreed...

steddyeddy · 30-07-2010 5:15pm

Einhard wrote: »

Descartes might have disagreed...

I would rather you tackle my point than tell me how someone else would have tackled it.

Millicent · 30-07-2010 5:16pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

I have read through it and in no way am i out to insult anyone. I used to read a lot of richard dawkins books and articles but what turned me off him is the fact that he is overly agressive and can be quite insulting. to clarify my point Im a zoologist who beleives in bigfoot To put it better ( finds the evidence credible) and for hundreds of years skeptics have been attacking the idea that such a creature exists.

Now why is one phenomenom praised and universally accepted while another dismissed (im not trying to turn this into a bigfoot thread just making a point about the ineqaulity of beleif). To comapre the belief in god to another unproven entity is perfectly valid and not a insult.

Apologies then. There was someone earlier comparing belief in God to belief in Santa. Didn't mean to insult you either.

And FWIW, I think the idea of Bigfoot is entirely credible.

steddyeddy · 30-07-2010 5:18pm

Millicent wrote: »

Apologies then. There was someone earlier comparing belief in God like belief in Santa. Didn't mean to insult you either.

And FWIW, I think the idea of Bigfoot is entirely credible.

thanks man i could have wrote my comment better anyway, writing isnt my best feature but im working on it.

Einhard · 30-07-2010 5:18pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yes mine requires you to think about it

It was this post I took issue with. Apologies if I misinterpreted it.

steddyeddy · 30-07-2010 5:20pm

ah ok sorry it was not meant in relation to other posts apologies for any offence caused

Devia · 30-07-2010 5:26pm

alwaysadub wrote: »

Can you prove he doesn't exist?

The burden is on the believer to provide reasoning for their beliefs.

Of course nobody is obliged to prove anything but to say "Can you prove he doesn't exist?" is a weak and ridiculous question to pose in response. You're the one making the claim that God exists and if you want to tell an athiest that they're wrong you need proof to do so. Otherwise the answer should be "I believe because I want to believe" and it should be left at that.

kylith · 30-07-2010 5:26pm

Einhard wrote: »

Oh that's just silly. "Thank God" and the like are just everyday phrases that people use colloquially. They're not actually in praise of some deity. I use words and phrases like that all the time and I don't even believe in the man above! Similarly, are you seriously suggesting that when the average Irish person is afflicted by cancer or whatever, they don't actually appreciate the medical cause? Do you know people who, when seriously ill, disdain the doctor and instead go to the local priest, or are you just building up convenient strawmen?

Some may use it colloquially or out of habit, some may not.

Believe it or not there are people who eschew medical treatment in favour of prayer. http://whatstheharm.net/ Some of these people die

Einhard wrote: »

The Catholic Church is the gaurdian of the greatest collection of art and antiquities on the planet. And I for one am delighted that that is the case. I visited Tuscany recently and was blown away by the art to be seen in even the simplest parish churches. Interestingly, such art was also in display in the many hospitals and alms houses which the medieval and Renaiisance Church had established to cater for the needs of the poor and needy. Do you think a secular society would have filled the breach in the absence of spiritual charity?
One of the best experiences of my life was spending a day in the Vatican Museum. The Church doesn't hoard away her treasures like some jealous miser, but displays them for people of ALL faiths to see. She is the curator of an amazing worldwide collection, and I'd far prefer to have them in the hands of the Church, on display for all to see, rather than adorning the walls and private collections of Russian oligarchs or oil-rich sheikhs.

If they're such fantastic works of art maybe they should be in museums. I would much rather the churches sold them and used the money to buy houses for the homeless, or feed the starving. You can't eat art, and you can't live in a statue. Hoarding artworks while the people you claim to be saving die is hardly very Chrisitan.

Also, if we're to be consistent, and expect the Church to sell her collections, then surely we should dispose of the collections in the National Gallery and IMMA, melt down the gold artifacts in the National Museum, and use the proceeds to endow charitable foundations?

Maybe they should, but the government with buys those artworks also runs hospices for the ill, shelters for the homeless and free healthcare for everyone. They also look after our national treasures. Yes, the money could be spent on something more practical, but this is what they have promised to do.

Governments do not have policies where it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get to heaven. The church does, and they're still happy to have huge piles of gold while they tell everyone else to tighten their belts.

This is true. But socialism can rob people of their sanity. Patriotism can rob people of their sanity. Wouldn't it be better to target those who have actual lost their sanity, rather than the systems which, for whatever reason, have led to that loss?

Isn't it better to stop insanity at its source than to clean up the mess afterward? If the root cause is not dug out, so to speak, then the number of people who have had their minds twisted will continue to increase. Better to cut it off at the root, whether the root be religion, patriotism, or the Late Late Show.

So you grit your teeth and refrain from robust response when these people accost you in person, yet you feel free to vent your frustrations and animosity anonymously at those here who merely happen to hold a different position than you? Right. I think that says a lot.

I grit my teeth when it is members of my family, or I am in a public setting, because I was raised to be polite and not to start rows. I 'vent', as you put it, on the internet, in fora such as this, because there is a thread for it. The people in these threads are here to debate religion or atheism, if they were not they would not post in these threads. I see nothing wrong with arguing religion somewhere where there is effectively a big sign that says ARGUE RELIGION HERE. This is the designated place.

barbiegirl · 30-07-2010 5:29pm

Ush1 wrote: »

This is fine.
Your beliefs are fine and I would not attack them or anything like it.

The only time it gets my back up is when people make false claims which directly conflict with science.

Mine too. I believe in Darwins theories as do the vast majority of people in Ireland. Science and religion do not have to be mutually exclusive. :-) At least not with anyone I've ever met. There are some sects and areas in the US etc who are strict creationists but they are very much in the minority.
I encourage my godsons interest in science and am constantly buying him books and practical toys that demonstrate theories.

mehfesto · 30-07-2010 5:30pm

Believing in god is one thing, believing something that created the universe - from every atom to the folds of a mountain range, would be conscerned with your sexual orientation, whether you eat red meat on certain days, how you address him, to enjoying sex with a condom... Is just barmy in my opinion.

If he created everything it's his fault if it's not perfect. It only took him 7 days to do the lot. I he was really worried about all this aim he could rip it up and start again.

gbee · 30-07-2010 5:32pm

Millicent wrote: »

Apologies then. There was someone earlier comparing belief in God to belief in Santa. Didn't mean to insult you either.

And FWIW, I think the idea of Bigfoot is entirely credible.

I made a point about absolute truthfulness in family life and children should be brought up without lies, that includes Santa and Religion.

I think it is wrong for children to be indoctrinated in religion and they need honesty from their parents above all else.

In my case 1959/66 or so RCC ~ which I had trouble with from the beginning ~ but I did believe, because it never crossed my mind that my parent's would lie to me. But they did.

Religion should be a grown up thing, there are many wonderful religions and so on, I tend to be mostly Buddhist by compatibility but I take a touch of Shinto too and I find I have affinity with a few more concepts ~

I_AmThe_Walrus · 30-07-2010 5:32pm

barbiegirl wrote: »

Mine too. I believe in Darwins theories as do the vast majority of people in Ireland. Science and religion do not have to be mutually exclusive. :-) At least not with anyone I've ever met. There are some sects and areas in the US etc who are strict creationists but they are very much in the minority.
I encourage my godsons interest in science and am constantly buying him books and practical toys that demonstrate theories.

Science and religion CANNOT co-exist.

Why do religions make public that they have no problem with science, yet science, continually are motivated to disprove God. It seems, as far as religion is concerned, the game is up and they know it.

Bodhidharma · 30-07-2010 5:35pm

"I knew this was the line you were going to bring up (Genesis 22).

God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac to call it to a halt at the last minute, because God wanted to show Abraham, that His expectations were beyond those of other tribes that actually did sacrifice their children. In fact it was common place in the Middle East at that time. The point was that God was different, in that God wanted to show Abraham that human sacrificing was contrary to His nature." - Jakkass

How was God different, didn't he murder his son?

Millicent · 30-07-2010 5:40pm

gbee wrote: »

I made a point about absolute truthfulness in family life and children should be brought up without lies, that includes Santa and Religion.

I think it is wrong for children to be indoctrinated in religion and they need honesty from their parents above all else.

In my case 1959/66 or so RCC ~ which I had trouble with from the beginning ~ but I did believe, because it never crossed my mind that my parent's would lie to me. But they did.

Religion should be a grown up thing, there are many wonderful religions and so on, I tend to be mostly Buddhist by compatibility but I take a touch of Shinto too and I find I have affinity with a few more concepts ~

I appreciate that and children should be taught about all different faiths/creeds and left to decide for themselves.

However, you still can't compare a belief in God to a belief in Santa. I don't think it was your comment though- I seem to recall reading someone else saying believing in God as an adult was as stupid as believing in Santa as an adult.

Einhard · 30-07-2010 5:43pm

kylith wrote: »

Some may use it colloquially or out of habit, some may not.

Believe it or not there are people who eschew medical treatment in favour of prayer. http://whatstheharm.net/ Some of these people die

Yes but those people are the exception, whereas you made them out to be the rule. The vast majority of religious people I meet are no different from the atheists I encounter. Yet you would have us believe that religion "does something" to these people. That's what I meant when I said you were bulding strawmen.

If they're such fantastic works of art maybe they should be in museums. I would much rather the churches sold them and used the money to buy houses for the homeless, or feed the starving. You can't eat art, and you can't live in a statue. Hoarding artworks while the people you claim to be saving die is hardly very Chrisitan.

They ARE in museums. Churches and cathedrals and abbeys and monastaries ARE museums. I have never been asked my faith before entering a church. Indeed, on several occasions I have made it known that I'm not a person of faith, and I've never been refused entry. So how exactly are these treasures being hoarded? The Church sees itself as safegauding these works for humanity, not just for Christians, and certainly not for the clergy. I'm an atheist and I'm perfectly content with that arrangement.

Maybe they should, but the government with buys those artworks also runs hospices for the ill, shelters for the homeless and free healthcare for everyone. They also look after our national treasures. Yes, the money could be spent on something more practical, but this is what they have promised to do.

The Church DOES run hospices and hospitals around the world. The Catholic Church is one of the biggest charitable organisations in the world, and historically, the greatest. The works the Church maintains are the treasures of humanity.

The church does, and they're still happy to have huge piles of gold while they tell everyone else to tighten their belts.

Again, this is silly. The Church doesn't sit on piles of gold. Indeed, it has made a loss for the past two years in a row.

Isn't it better to stop insanity at its source than to clean up the mess afterward? If the root cause is not dug out, so to speak, then the number of people who have had their minds twisted will continue to increase. Better to cut it off at the root, whether the root be religion, patriotism, or the Late Late Show.

Yes it is, but belief in general cannot be blamed for religious fundamentalism anymore than socialism can be blamed for Communism, or patriotism held responsible for the Nazis. Thus, to strike at the source, is actually to strike at the corruption of the source material, rather than seek its abolition altogether.

I_AmThe_Walrus · 30-07-2010 5:44pm

Here are some of my favourites. I hope you read them as they are wonderful pieces.

The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality. – George Bernard Shaw
Faith means not wanting to know what is true. – Friedrich Nietzsche

I believe in God, only I spell it Nature. – Frank Lloyd Wright

We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes. – Gene Roddenberry

To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today. - Isaac Asimov

A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows. – Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain)

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. – Seneca the Younger

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. – Anonymous

Not only is there no god, but try getting a plumber on weekends. – Woody Allen

If I were not an atheist, I would believe in a God who would choose to save people on the basis of the totality of their lives and not the pattern of their words. I think he would prefer an honest and righteous atheist to a TV preacher whose every word is God, God, God, and whose every deed is foul, foul, foul. – Isaac Asimov

Belief in the supernatural reflects a failure of the imagination. – Edward Abbey

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. – Steven Weinberg

I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence. – Doug McLeod

The world holds two classes of men – intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence. – Abul ʿAla Al-Maʿarri

Since the Bible and the church are obviously mistaken in telling us where we came from, how can we trust them to tell us where we are going? – Anonymous

I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. – Susan B. Anthony

The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike. – Delos B. McKown

Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer. – Anonymous

Atheism leaves a man to sense, to philosophy, to natural piety, to laws, to reputation; all of which may be guides to an outward moral virtue, even if religion vanished; but religious superstition dismounts all these and erects an absolute monarchy in the minds of men. – Francis Bacon

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. – Richard Dawkins

A God who kept tinkering with the universe was absurd; a God who interfered with human freedom and creativity was tyrant. If God is seen as a self in a world of his own, an ego that relates to a thought, a cause separate from its effect. he becomes a being, not Being itself. An omnipotent, all-knowing tyrant is not so different from earthly dictators who make everything and everybody mere cogs in the machine which they controlled. An atheism that rejects such a God is amply justified. – Karen Armstrong

It is not as in the Bible, that God created man in his own image. But, on the contrary, man created God in his own image. – Ludwig Feuerbach

People ask me what I think about that woman priest thing. What, a woman priest? Women priests. Great, great. Now there’s priests of both sexes I don’t listen to. – Bill Hicks

All the biblical miracles will at last disappear with the progress of science. – Matthew Arnold

Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence. – Anonymous

Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain and presumptuous desire for a second one. – Richard Dawkins

What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. – Christopher Hitchens

In Christianity neither morality nor religion come into contact with reality at any point. – Friedrich Nietzsche

It will yet be the proud boast of women that they never contributed a line to the Bible. – George W. Foote

On the first day, man created God. – Anonymous

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. – Stephen Roberts

You do not need the Bible to justify love, but no better tool has been invented to justify hate. – Richard A. Weatherwax

What’s “God”? Well, you know, when you want something really bad and you close your eyes and you wish for it? God’s the guy that ignores you. – Steve Buscemi (From the movie “The Island”)

As far as I can tell from studying the scriptures, all you do in heaven is pretty much just sit around all day and praise the Lord. I don’t know about you, but I think that after the first, oh, I don’t know, 50,000,000 years of that I’d start to get a little bored. – Rick Reynolds

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish. – Anonymous

Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color. – Don Hirschberg

God should be executed for crimes against humanity. – Bryan Emmanuel Gutierrez

To say that atheism requires faith is as dim-witted as saying that disbelief in pixies or leprechauns takes faith. Even if Einstein himself told me there was an elf on my shoulder, I would still ask for proof and I wouldn’t be wrong to ask. – Geoff Mather

I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. – Mark Twain

Of all religions the Christian is without doubt the one which should inspire tolerance most, although up to now the Christians have been the most intolerant of all men. – Voltaire

And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence. – Bertrand Russell

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? – Epicurus

I'm a polyatheist – there are many gods I don’t believe in. – Dan Fouts

If it turns out that there is a God, I don’t think that he’s evil. But the worst that you can say about him is that basically he's an underachiever. – Woody Allen

A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it. – David Stevens

Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a God superior to themselves. Most Gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. – Robert A Heinlein

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing." – Douglas Adams

It ain't the parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand. – Mark Twain

He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. – William Drummond

Remember, Jesus would rather constantly shame gays than let orphans have a family. – Steven Colbert

Which is it, is man one of God's blunders or is God one of man's? – Friedrich Nietzsche

Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people. – Carlespie Mary Alice McKinney

Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea. – Anonymous

When a man is freed of religion, he has a better chance to live a normal and wholesome life. – Sigmund Freud

They felt that science would be corrosive to religious belief and they were worried about it. Damn it, I think they were right. It is corrosive to religious belief and it's a good thing. – Steven Weinberg

Take from the church the miraculous, the supernatural, the incomprehensible, the unreasonable, the impossible, the unknowable, the absurd, and nothing but a vacuum remains. – Robert G. Ingersoll

History teaches us that no other cause has brought more death than the word of god. – Giulian Buzila

Atheism is a non-prophet organization. – George Carlin

We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. – Richard Dawkins

A believer states everything must have a creator but fail to say how he was created. – Anonymous

"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn’t an argument against atheism, it’s an argument against foxholes. – James Morrow

People will then often say, 'But surely it’s better to remain an Agnostic just in case?' This, to me, suggests such a level of silliness and muddle that I usually edge out of the conversation rather than get sucked into it. (If it turns out that I’ve been wrong all along, and there is in fact a god, and if it further turned out that this kind of legalistic, cross-your-fingers-behind-your-back, Clintonian hair-splitting impressed him, then I think I would choose not to worship him anyway.) – Douglas Adams

Properly read, the bible is the most potent force for Atheism ever conceived. – Isaac Asimov

If all the Christians who have called other Christians "not really a Christian" were to vanish, there’d be no Christians left. – Anonymous

An atheist is a man who has no invisible means of support. – John Buchan

Gods dont kill people. People with Gods kill people. – David Viaene

If God were suddenly condemned to live the life which He has inflicted upon men, He would kill Himself. – Alexandre Dumas

Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make when in the presence of religious dogma. – Sam Harris

I don’t believe in God because I don’t believe in Mother Goose – Clarence Darrow

No philosophy, no religion, has ever brought so glad a message to the world as this good news of Atheism. – Annie Wood Besant

I refuse to believe in a god who is the primary cause of conflict in the world, preaches racism, sexism, homophobia, and ignorance, and then sends me to hell if I’m ‘bad’. – Mike Fuhrman

Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. – Frater Ravus

Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-o, and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have. – Penn Jillette

Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power but absolute power is corrupt only in the hands of the absolutely faithful. – Anonymous

Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense. – Chapman Cohen

The inspiration of the bible depends on the ignorance of the person who reads it. – Robert G. Ingersoll

When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion. – Robert Pirsig

I wonder who got the **** job of scouring the planet for the 15000 species of butterfly or the 8800 species of ant they eventually took on board Noah’s Ark. But at least we got that magical rainbow for all their trouble. – Azura Skye

I have no need for religion, I have a conscience. – Anonymous

Man has always required an explanation for all of those things in the world he did not understand. If an explanation was not available, he created one. – Jim Crawford

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. – Richard Dawkins

What has been Christianity’s fruits? Superstition, Bigotry and Persecution. – James Madison

The characters and events depicted in the damn bible are fictitious. Any similarity to actual persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental. – Penn and Teller

If god is the alpha and the omega. The begining and the end, knows what has passed and what is to come, like it states in the bible, why do people pray and think it will make any difference. – Mark Fairclough

The finality of death is the coldest truth one must face. Religion makes the perfect distraction. – Anonymous

Religion is the opiate of the masses. – Karl Marx

If God created the world, then who created god? and who created whoever created god? So somewhere along the line something had to just be there. So why can’t we just skip the idea of god and go straight to earth? – Ryan Hanson

If we expect God to subscribe to one religion at the exclusion of all the others, then we should expect damnation as a matter of chance. This should give Christians pause when expounding their religious beliefs, but it does not. – Sam Harris

Atheists will celebrate life, while you’re in church celebrating death. – Anonymous

Animals do not have gods, they are smarter than that. – Ronnie Snow

I have observed that the world has suffered far less from ignorance than from pretensions to knowledge. It is not skeptics or explorers but fanatics and ideologues who menace decency and progress. No agnostic ever burned anyone at the stake or tortured a pagan, a heretic, or an unbeliever. – Daniel Boorstin

I have never seen the slightest scientific proof of the religious ideas of heaven and hell, of future life for individuals, or of a personal God. So far as religion of the day is concerned, it is a damned fake... Religion is all bunk. – Thomas Edison

Fundamentalism, of any type, due to its prerequisite lack of intelligent thought, could prove to be the worst weapon of mass destruction, of all. – David J. Constable

To really be free, You need to be free in the mind. – Alexander Loutsis

Most religions prophecy the end of the world and then consistently work together to ensure that these prophecies come true. – Anonymous

Jesus hardly made the greatest sacrifice. He knew he would be resurrected anyway. – Anonymous

Religion is like a virus that affects the behaviour of its host in such a way as to propagate itself further. – Jack Pritchard

Religions are like pills, which must be swallowed whole without chewing. – Anonymous

Today’s religion will be the future’s mythology. Both believed at one time by many; but proved wrong by the clever. – Steven Crocker

The Bible – A Fairytale book of rules brainwashing millions. Obliviously used to help create war, kill, hate, judge and discriminate. – Anonymous

Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too? – Douglas Adams

Einhard · 30-07-2010 5:45pm

gbee wrote: »

I made a point about absolute truthfulness in family life and children should be brought up without lies, that includes Santa and Religion.

I think it is wrong for children to be indoctrinated in religion and they need honesty from their parents above all else.

In my case 1959/66 or so RCC ~ which I had trouble with from the beginning ~ but I did believe, because it never crossed my mind that my parent's would lie to me. But they did.

Don't be so melodramatic. Your parents didn't lie to you, nor are believers liars because of their faith. They expressed the truth as they saw it.

Einhard · 30-07-2010 5:47pm

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

Science and religion CANNOT co-exist.

Newton didn't find them incompatible, and I'd rather take my cues from him than you.

CCCP · 30-07-2010 5:48pm

@ OP
First of all I assume your referring to the Christian, Islamic and Jewish ideas of god,

how can people still believe in The God of Abrahamic religions? would maybe be a better way to phrase your question.

Anyway. there are many many issues with a question like that, it imply s that you assume all god worshipers have a low IQ, and that the idea of God is the same amongst believers.

I believe in God, the Abrahamic god but not in the Catholic, Protestant teachings or any other teachings beyond that of the words of Christ himself.

if we are talking IQ then my result from a 6th year IQ test years ago was +130, so I would be in the 'very superior' category of intellect.
However, I don't believe in the merit of IQ tests , but I do believe in God.

It doesn't mean I agree with any established body of worship, or any doctrine.

There is a difference between having Faith/belief and following doctrinal religious instructions imposed by established religious movements.

I have studied a lot of theology, philosophy and world history. Jesus did exist, there is plenty of evidence to support this fact.

Was he the divine or was he a messenger? - He never said he was divine himself, but his followers claimed he was the son of god and one with God.

I believe in God, and his messenger Jesus for one simple reason, personal and very real experience in my life and the lives of others around me. I was an atheist in my teen years but grew up and copped on to reality.

I am not a bible basher, don't try impress my ideas upon people etc
I' just a normal guy who is happy with what he understands to be true.

It's not the answer to your question, but it's an answer - people believe in God for many reasons, some of them stupid and some of them wise.

Davidius · 30-07-2010 5:49pm

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

Science and religion CANNOT co-exist.

Why do religions make public that they have no problem with science, yet science, continually are motivated to disprove God. It seems, as far as religion is concerned, the game is up and they know it.

Science largely isn't motivated by the wish to disprove the existence of a God.

barbiegirl · 30-07-2010 5:53pm

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

Science and religion CANNOT co-exist.

Why do religions make public that they have no problem with science, yet science, continually are motivated to disprove God. It seems, as far as religion is concerned, the game is up and they know it.

Sorry maybe I mis-understand. Most if not all (my knowledge is not all inclusive) accept science and scientific study, theories and practice, it is science that has the problem with religion. Most hatred comes from fear so why would scientists be so scared of religion?
Again though I would make the point that a person with a belief in God does not necessarily subscribe to a particular religion and the premise of this whole agrument is belief in God not subscription to a particular religion.

How do people still belive in God?

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