How do people still belive in God?

ravendude

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pace2008
You can't prove to us you're not a paedophile.

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Oh god is this level this thread has stooped to?

I'm not even going to try to discuss this one with you, it's just not worth the effort.

No, its a strong point he's making. He was referring to the "disprove it" argument as to the existence of god.
This is a hopeless negative proof/logical fallacy argument that keeps coming up
Have a read of this article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_proof

JazzPotato

From growing up in rural Kerry, I can safely say a lot belief comes down from listening to your parents.
I moved over here when I was 10 from England. My parents hadn't baptised me because they believed I should choose my own faith when I was older and could decide. My mother is Roman Catholic and my father is Church of England. In school in England religion never came into factor. We just learned about Jesus and all the bad ass stories surrounding him (Walking on water made him my hero at age 8).
When moving here though all my class was making their Confirmation. 97% of people were Roman Catholic. I can say I chose to be baptised purely because everyone else was Catholic, and my teacher said Catholicism was good.
I wouldn't definitely not become a Catholic if I had the choice now. Not because I dislike Christianity, but because I think religion is too hazy to commit fully. And I see no point in saying I am a Catholic if I was not 100% Catholic devout.

But after that ramble...I don't see the point in question why people believe if it leads to hostility. People have different reasons, if you cannot respect that then you are not a good/moral person.

gbee

ravendude wrote: »

I can make the assertion that a variety of blue leprechauns exist and ask you to disprove it. It is only right not to be taken seriously.

NO, dems the dem foreign crimo gangs robbin the country. They got the color wong ...

Pace2008

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Ok I am going to cut my losses and run. I've had enough of the narrow minded attitudes on here.

I am sorry for dragging the thread down and offending people with my silly beliefs but I won't change them just because they seem to go against the tolerated accepted ideals or because they are unreasonable and irrational.

It's sad really.....I was actually enjoying this discussion for a while.

One of the most blatant sidesteps I've seen on this forum. Don't bother playing the victim either.

AudreyHepburn

Pace2008 wrote: »

One of the most blatant sidesteps I've seen on this forum. Don't bother playing the victim either.

I'm side stepping nothing, I've just said all I want to say so I am opting out, simple as that.

MagicMarker

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I'm side stepping nothing, I've just said all I want to say so I am opting out, simple as that.

So you really are a pedophile then? Come to think of it, Jesus was a pedophile too.

JazzPotato

What a terrible comment. You're just proving his reasons to leave this thread true and valid.

MagicMarker

JazzPotato wrote: »

What a terrible comment. You're just proving his reasons to leave this thread true and valid.

What do you mean? It's obviously true, unless you can prove he wasn't?

JazzPotato

How can I prove that you are or aren't wearing your neighbours underwear right now?
It's a pointless and rather dim way of discussing a deep topic. Never ending circles without taking any views or situations on board. If thats how you like to discuss topics then I'll gladly avoid them with you.

GisforGrenade

I don't see the point in question why people believe if it leads to hostility. People have different reasons, if you cannot respect that then you are not a good/moral person.

I am agnostic but I have no problem with someone else having a personal faith, but I have a problem with people suggesting that someone is stupid or ignorant to have a personal faith. If we want to be free to disbelieve we should also be free to believe. We should not force our faith or lack thereof on anybody else.

Pace2008

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I'm side stepping nothing, I've just said all I want to say so I am opting out, simple as that.

So if there's to be any consistency to your logic, you'll agree that if the onus is on atheists to disprove god's existence, it is also fair to say that you will have to provide evidence
to refute my claims that 50-meter-long golden lobsters are real and that you are a paedophile?

JazzPotato

GisforGrenade wrote: »

I am agnostic but I have no problem with someone else having a personal faith, but I have a problem with people suggesting that someone is stupid or ignorant to have a personal faith. If we want to be free to disbelieve we should also be free to believe. We should not force our faith or lack thereof on anybody else.

Great post.

MagicMarker

JazzPotato wrote: »

How can I prove that you are or aren't wearing your neighbours underwear right now?
It's a pointless and rather dim way of discussing a deep topic. Never ending circles without taking any views or situations on board. If thats how you like to discuss topics then I'll gladly avoid them with you.

Maybe you haven't read the last couple of pages, but I'm using the exact same rationale as AudreyHepburn.

So, unless you or her can prove to me they she is not and Jesus was not a pedophile then I shall have to continue believing that are are/were.

Of course, I have no evidence, I shall just have to rely on faith.

JazzPotato

Faith is what religion is about.
If you can't respect that AudreyHepburn believes in God because of faith and the bible then thats a pretty nasty point of view.
If AudreyHepburn is telling you that your point of view is wrong on life because you haven't faith, then you're in the clear to use the arguments you're using now.

Apologies if I came on strong criticising you.

genericguy

GisforGrenade wrote: »

I am agnostic but I have no problem with someone else having a personal faith, but I have a problem with people suggesting that someone is stupid or ignorant to have a personal faith. If we want to be free to disbelieve we should also be free to believe. We should not force our faith or lack thereof on anybody else.

i'd take this a step further and say that religion should be a private thing, kept to yourself, done in your own home - veils,crosses,turbans, burkhas and rhetoric kept out of the public domain, government buildings, workplaces and schools. that would end sectarianism, enhance interpersonal relations and make for a far more progressive country.

caseyann

genericguy wrote: »

i'd take this a step further and say that religion should be a private thing, kept to yourself, done in your own home - veils,crosses,turbans, burkhas and rhetoric kept out of the public domain, government buildings, workplaces and schools. that would end sectarianism, enhance interpersonal relations and make for a far more progressive country.

So basically communism? And shoved in a box to please everyone who doesnt believe,i see so much freedom from oppression in that.

genericguy

MagicMarker wrote: »

Maybe you haven't read the last couple of pages, but I'm using the exact same rationale as AudreyHepburn.

So, unless you or her can prove to me they she is not and Jesus was not a pedophile then I shall have to continue believing that are are/were.

Of course, I have no evidence, I shall just have to rely on faith.

in that case, i'm having a threesome woth cheryl tweedy and scarlett johansson in a minute.




scarlett johandson, anyway.

gbee

MagicMarker wrote: »

Of course, I have no evidence, I shall just have to rely on faith.

Was doing First Holy Communion photos earlier this year, it was as the report into Church Paedophilia was published [bad for business damm it].

But the priest said "suffer little children to come onto me!" he was supposedly quoting Jesus. I thought it was particularly insensitive under the circumstances.

ravendude

GisforGrenade wrote: »

I am agnostic but I have no problem with someone else having a personal faith, but I have a problem with people suggesting that someone is stupid or ignorant to have a personal faith. If we want to be free to disbelieve we should also be free to believe. We should not force our faith or lack thereof on anybody else.

You see, this is the problem I have as an atheist. Its the forcing of faith that is the problem. We (atheists) are far less free to disbelieve than you are to believe. Occasionally having to listen to an argument on an internet forum as to lack of faith is a trifling inconvenience.
I have other peoples' faith foisted on me by being forced (practically speaking) to send my child to a religious school, and having to have my child christened to make it easier from them to get a place in the local school, not to mention the hours and hours of time spent on religion classes that could be put to other use (and not having my child sit on the sidelines if they are not participating).
And that's not to get started on the the destructive, oppressive and bigoted, sexist qualities of institutionalised religion that has caused hurt to so many in this country.

People are only questioning religion as a framework in our society and looking for some answers through discourse.

Pace2008

caseyann wrote: »

So basically communism? And shoved in a box to please everyone who doesnt believe,i see so much freedom from oppression in that.

You don't know what communism is, do you?

ravendude

caseyann wrote: »

So basically communism? And shoved in a box to please everyone who doesnt believe,i see so much freedom from oppression in that.

Personally I have no problem with freedom of religious expression in the sense of wearing crosses etc.. I do think though that the State should take no role in religious education and religion should have no place in our constitution.

JazzPotato

Haha I have to say I laughed at that.
Edit: @ Pace

caseyann

Pace2008 wrote: »

You don't know what communism is, do you?

Yes i do,my husband lived in it.

genericguy

caseyann wrote: »

So basically communism? And shoved in a box to please everyone who doesnt believe,i see so much fairness in that.

nope, i don't believe in communism - why should my intelligence and hard work earn me the same life as everyone else? communism is placing mediocrity on the same level as excellence.

and no, it's not about fairness either - people of different religions are murdering each other all over the world, so why not have it so that people who wish to worship god/seven-armed elephants/teapots can do so in their own homes privately? why is it so important that there be massive marches for god which almost always end in riots? why should the catholic not be able to walk down a protestant street and vice versa? why should muslims be afraid to walk the streets of israel?

keep it in your own house and out of everyone else's face. i don't walk around wearing an atheism shirt ffs.

raah!

People are only questioning religion as a framework in our society and looking for some answers through discourse.

Yeah, this attitude is very evident in statements like

"I don't believe in fairies", "all wars are caused by religion", "religious people don't believe in science".

People should read these type of threads before they make any statements about what they think atheists make them for.

caseyann

genericguy wrote: »

nope, i don't believe in communism - why should my intelligence and hard work earn me the same life as everyone else? communism is placing mediocrity on the same level as excellence.

and no, it's not about fairness either - people of different religions are murdering each other all over the world, so why not have it so that people who wish to worship god/seven-armed elephants/teapots can do so in their own homes privately? why is it so important that there be massive marches for god which almost always end in riots? why should the catholic not be able to walk down a protestant street and vice versa? why should muslims be afraid to walk the streets of israel?

keep it in your own house and out of everyone else's face. i don't walk around wearing an atheism shirt ffs.

Because they choose to,its not anything wrong with faith,Its whats wrong with people.
I dont go out killing people neither do billions of others.

You are wearing it loud and proud now arent you lol

Pace2008

caseyann wrote: »

Yes i do,my husband lived in it.

What you are describing is a totalitarian regime, not communism.

/OT

Mickeroo

caseyann wrote: »

So basically communism? And shoved in a box to please everyone who doesnt believe,i see so much freedom from oppression in that.

But if faith is such a personal thing why does it have to be in the public domain? If something is in the public eye then it warrants criticism.

Communism is not inherintly oppressive,only when it's badly implemented......probably a discussion for another thread though

raah!

genericguy wrote: »

and no, it's not about fairness either - people of different religions are murdering each other all over the world, so why not have it so that people who wish to worship god/seven-armed elephants/teapots can do so in their own homes privately? why is it so important that there be massive marches for god which almost always end in riots? why should the catholic not be able to walk down a protestant street and vice versa? why should muslims be afraid to walk the streets of israel?

You should actually look into some of those questions. It may go some ways into curing you of some intolerance.

cc-offe

I don't believe in the bible, not the old testament anyway obviously, I do believe that Jesus was a real person who could perform miracles ( I also believe in this day and age that there are miracle healers).

I don't know about God, I believe in the Idea....if that makes sense.

I believe in an after life (the main reason I believe in this is because I believe in ghosts and trapped spirits etc.) Also since i've had kids I want to believe in an after life because the thought of there not being one scares the life out of me.

Saying all this I never go to mass, I'm not religious at all and I do understand the OP'S question as we are supposed to believe that the world was created in a few days yada yada yada like come on.....