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How do people still belive in God?

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    #722
    Peppapig
    Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭Peppapig


    Who created god?

    My brother says to me, " Sure how could the Universe just come from nowhere"

    How the hell could god come from nowhere? Explain Holy Wan's!


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    #723
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    baltimore sun wrote: »
    I hate all and every religion equally.

    You are right, the problem is that religion has been hijacked, the failing Roman Empire were quick to spot that if you persuaded people that you had God on your side, one's enemies were less inclined to attack you and burn down your cities.

    They also saw they could ask for tributes instead of collecting taxes and as a side benefit they could reduce their own standing armies, thus saving even more fortunes.

    But that's the corruption of religion, man is a rather fragile creature and is still maturing, so the concept of their being some power or person moreorless in 'control' is just a human condition of easy acceptance ~ that is it is easier to accept than to question and they do draw comfort from that.


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    #724
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    I wonder how many people would associate themselves with a social club or group thats been involved in as much murder, myosgny, rape, corruption and general shenanigans as the catholic church if that god fells wasnt involved.


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    #725
    Dazd_N_Confusd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 161 ✭✭Dazd_N_Confusd


    kjl wrote: »
    Like I can understand when we were back in the stupid ages before we knew what we know now
    Just because you read about the Big Bang on Wikipedia doesn't mean you 'know' anything. People take a leap of faith when they believe what the scientist tells them same as the religious.

    I'm perfectly content with not 'knowing' a God damn thing.


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    #726
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Dazd_N_Confusd wrote: »
    People take a leap of faith when they believe what the scientist tells them same as the religious.

    No, they don't.


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    #727
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Dazd_N_Confusd wrote: »
    Just because you read about the Big Bang on Wikipedia doesn't mean you 'know' anything. People take a leap of faith when they believe what the scientist tells them same as the religious.
    That may be true, but the difference is that you can go and study physics, and do all the experiments and maths yourself and discover if the scientists have been fibbing. You can't do that with religion because there are no experiments or equations that even claim to prove the existance of a deity.

    Science encourages you to challenge what you're being told, religion discourages questions.


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    #728
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    Dazd_N_Confusd wrote: »
    Just because you read about the Big Bang on Wikipedia doesn't mean you 'know' anything. People take a leap of faith when they believe what the scientist tells them same as the religious.

    I'm perfectly content with not 'knowing' a God damn thing.
    Do you feel you're taking a leap of faith when you turn your computer on, or drive your car to work in the morning?


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    #729
    Dazd_N_Confusd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 161 ✭✭Dazd_N_Confusd


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    Do you feel you're taking a leap of faith when you turn your computer on, or drive your car to work in the morning?
    In what sense exactly?


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    #730
    Dazd_N_Confusd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 161 ✭✭Dazd_N_Confusd


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    No, they don't.
    So everyone's a scientist then and has studied the nature of the Universe for themselves?


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    #731
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    Do you feel you're taking a leap of faith when you turn your computer on, or drive your car to work in the morning?
    I for one have no idea how it works. All hail my magic internet box.


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    #732
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Dazd_N_Confusd wrote: »
    So everyone's a scientist then and has studied the nature of the Universe for themselves?

    And this is the same as faith in God how exactly?


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    #733
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    Dazd_N_Confusd wrote: »
    In what sense exactly?
    These pieces of technology were developed using the same scientific principles with which the Big Bang theory was and continues to be formulated. If you lived for a million years you still wouldn't understand all the scientific disciplines, but I think it makes a lot of sense for me to back the runner with the more impressive track record.


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    #734
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    krudler wrote: »
    I wonder how many people would associate themselves with a social club or group thats been involved in as much murder, myosgny, rape, corruption and general shenanigans as the catholic church if that god fells wasnt involved.

    Religion has nothing to do with being a murder or rapist or mysoginist or corrupt etc.

    There people with those tendancies in all walks of life, not just the Christian faith.

    Please can people accept this and stop using this argument because you could accuse any group of people anywhere in the world of these things.

    Being religious does not automatically mean you will be or will condone any of the above.


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    #735
    optogirl
    Registered Users Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭optogirl


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Religion has nothing to do with being a murder or rapist or mysoginist or corrupt etc.

    There people with those tendancies in all walks of life, not just the Christian faith.

    Please can people accept this and stop using this argument because you could accuse any group of people anywhere in the world of these things.

    Being religious does not automatically mean you will be or will condone any of the above.



    You could not accuse 'any group of people' of these things - that is an outrageous thing to say. As our own country has been severely damaged and lorded over by the Catholic Church I will use them as an example - they are responsible for the systematic abuse and COVERING UP OF ABUSE of thousands of children. Their reaction was to protect the abusers and deny deny deny until a costly and in depth report exposed them for what they are. Women are supposed to be servile and pregnant. The poor should stay poor and offer up their money to the Church. This is practice - not the work of one or two or even a hundred members of the organisation.

    If a nurse or popstar or truck driver was found to be guilty of any of the Church's sins, unless their union or organisation stood by them and indeed supported them, you cannot say that the institutions themselves are flawed, merely the individuals. However, in the case of the church, it is the institution itself that oversaw, allowed and denied these abuses and continued to shelter the scumbags that perpetrated the crimes.


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    #736
    Dazd_N_Confusd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 161 ✭✭Dazd_N_Confusd


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    These pieces of technology were developed using the same scientific principles with which the Big Bang theory was and continues to be formulated. If you lived for a million years you still wouldn't understand all the scientific disciplines, but I think it makes a lot of sense for me to back the runner with the more impressive track record.
    I'll agree with you on that one.

    The problem I have is people, like the OP, speak as if they actually have a first hand understanding of the world they live in.


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    #737
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Dazd_N_Confusd wrote: »
    So everyone's a scientist then and has studied the nature of the Universe for themselves?

    They could though, that's the difference - that people choose not to study or learn about topics doesn't mean the conclusions of those that have studied such things should be automatically dismissed. The evidence that has been amassed and commonly accepted theories are there to be investigated, studied, improved upon or disproved by any and all who wish to do so.


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    #738
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    There people with those tendancies in all walks of life, not just the Christian faith. .

    Can't accept that at all. And just becsue there are peopl ein all walks of life ~ you know, there are NOT ~ but even if there were in ALL walks of life it is NO excuse.

    FACTS are there are MORE in some religious orders, apparently ATTRACTED to because of the freedoms and protection offered from Rome for them.

    Now these are FACTS.


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    #739
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,469 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    Dazd_N_Confusd wrote: »
    Just because you read about the Big Bang on Wikipedia doesn't mean you 'know' anything. People take a leap of faith when they believe what the scientist tells them same as the religious.

    I'm perfectly content with not 'knowing' a God damn thing.

    No they don't, you see, science actually works!

    Planes fly, computers, your mobile phone, this is all thanks to science and the principles therein.


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    #740
    Devia
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭Devia


    Dazd_N_Confusd wrote: »
    People take a leap of faith when they believe what the scientist tells them same as the religious

    I'm a scientist and there is nothing in science that involves "faith". Scientific theory arises from observation and reason, it doesn't just pop out of nowhere. If there were no logical pathways to the big bang theory or the theory of evolution then it would be given no credibility whatsoever. This isn't the case for god.


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    #741
    Dazd_N_Confusd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 161 ✭✭Dazd_N_Confusd


    I guess I'm just taking the philosophical route of what knowledge is and how much does an individual actually 'know'. Which for the majority of the world's population, myself included, is not a lot.

    The difference is I can accept my ignorance. Whether or not I actually understand the workings behind a car, mobile or airplane doesn't affect my life in the slightest.

    Now If I was in a quiz and asked a scientific question I wouldn't go off on a philosophical rant about how we can never know anything with 100% accuracy. I'd simply give the 'accepted' answer, if I happened to 'know' it.


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    #742
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    optogirl wrote: »
    You could not accuse 'any group of people' of these things - that is an outrageous thing to say. As our own country has been severely damaged and lorded over by the Catholic Church I will use them as an example - they are responsible for the systematic abuse and COVERING UP OF ABUSE of thousands of children. Their reaction was to protect the abusers and deny deny deny until a costly and in depth report exposed them for what they are. Women are supposed to be servile and pregnant. The poor should stay poor and offer up their money to the Church. This is practice - not the work of one or two or even a hundred members of the organisation.

    If a nurse or popstar or truck driver was found to be guilty of any of the Church's sins, unless their union or organisation stood by them and indeed supported them, you cannot say that the institutions themselves are flawed, merely the individuals. However, in the case of the church, it is the institution itself that oversaw, allowed and denied these abuses and continued to shelter the scumbags that perpetrated the crimes.
    What makes so abhorrent to me is that this organisation is supposed to act as a moral compass for its followers.

    Seriously, why do so many people continue to consider themselves part of the Church? I'm sure a huge amount of them disagree with Catholic doctrine - how many Catholics actually refuse to use contraception, or believe acts of homosexuality are immoral, or **** is sinful?

    I think for the most part people just don't like the idea of change, or go along with the persistent notion that being Catholic is an intrinsic part of being Irish.


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    #743
    optogirl
    Registered Users Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭optogirl


    I have left the Catholic Church. I no longer wish to be counted when statistics say there are X amount of Catholics in the world. Not in my name. If you wish to do likewise it's quick and easy

    www.countmeout.ie


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    #744
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Dazd_N_Confusd wrote: »
    I guess I'm just taking the philosophical route of what knowledge is and how much does an individual actually 'know'. Which for the majority of the world's population, myself included, is not a lot.

    The difference is I can accept my ignorance. Whether or not I actually understand the workings behind a car, mobile or airplane doesn't affect my life in the slightest.

    Now If I was in a quiz and asked a scientific question I wouldn't go off on a philosophical rant about how we can never know anything with 100% accuracy. I'd simply give the 'accepted' answer, if I happened to 'know' it.

    Of course, but that wasn't really the point you were making. You were suggesting using technology requires a leap of faith and as such is akin to religious belief. Now, you may not be a professor in aeronautics but you know that planes can fly because you have seen them and sat in them - what is more, anyone who wishes to go to an airport or book a plane ticket can do likewise. There is no question that planes fly, no ambiguity, no requirement for faith that the act of jet propulsion is actually possible, no select few that jet propulsion reveals itself to, no different sects with differing laws of physics flying in different ways. That is the difference between accepting scientific endeavour and faith.


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    #745
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Dazd_N_Confusd wrote: »
    Just because you read about the Big Bang on Wikipedia doesn't mean you 'know' anything. People take a leap of faith when they believe what the scientist tells them same as the religious.

    I'm perfectly content with not 'knowing' a God damn thing.

    funny that, if I had a "heart attack" I think I'd rather have a "leap of faith" with "doctors" using "science" to help me, with their magical ways of making sick people better. do I know the workings of a cardiogram or defibulator? nope, would I put more trust in those helping me than my entire family sitting around praying for me? yup.


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    #746
    Devia
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭Devia


    Dazd_N_Confusd wrote: »
    Which for the majority of the world's population, myself included, is not a lot.

    So although you know very little one thing you do know is that the majority of the worlds population know very little. I'd like to see the results of this research.


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    #747
    Hairspray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 139 ✭✭Hairspray


    Dude its okay to belive in god or have faith in higher power.Thats nice.You can belive in god but can disagree with a religons teachings.


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    #748
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Hairspray wrote: »
    Dude its okay to belive in god or have faith in higher power.Thats nice.You can belive in god but can disagree with a religons teachings.
    But arent' religious teachings the direct word of your god? And wouldn't disagreeing with them be disagreeing with your god? I've heard that he takes a dim view of that.


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    #749
    Devia
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭Devia


    kylith wrote: »
    But arent' religious teachings the direct word of your god? And wouldn't disagreeing with them be disagreeing with your god? I've heard that he takes a dim view of that.

    Depends what "your god" is. You could believe that a god created the universe yet not associate yourself with organised religion.


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    #750
    Long Term Louth
    Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭Long Term Louth


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    And this is the same as faith in God how exactly?
    If your lucky enough for it (faith) to knock upon your world maybe then you will know?


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    #751
    Long Term Louth
    Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭Long Term Louth


    krudler wrote: »
    funny that, if I had a "heart attack" I think I'd rather have a "leap of faith" with "doctors" using "science" to help me, with their magical ways of making sick people better. do I know the workings of a cardiogram or defibulator? nope, would I put more trust in those helping me than my entire family sitting around praying for me? yup.


    What if the defibulator fails?


This discussion has been closed.
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