How do people still belive in God?

Millicent

Gannon Rhythmic Watchman wrote: »

That makes pretty good sense to me, have you read The Life of Pi?



Sometimes the factualities can be bleak and depressing, it's nice to think of things from a more colourful medium of explanation. And its nice to have thoughts evoked in that way

If that is what you're saying

That is what I am saying and thank you very much for summing it up better than I ever could have!

I haven't read the Life of Pi but it's definitely going on the "to read" list!

Donkey Oaty

Gannon Rhythmic Watchman wrote: »

That makes pretty good sense to me, have you read The Life of Pi?

Good choice - very apt.

philologos

Saganist wrote: »

Would you ask someone to do that ?

For the same reason as God? Absolutely, if it was to play a part in preventing human sacrifice in the future.

I just find it curious, that people think they have everyone sussed out, and that they must by extension by so much more superior than them. Isn't it possible that a lot of believers can actually have a solid faith, and know about it to a good level?

Or indeed, isn't it possible that believers can actually be intelligent?

I mean, it is more the narcissistic / prejudiced attitude that comes across in many anti-theist posts on this website, that really makes people (I assume it isn't just me) cringe a little inside.

Isn't it possible that a lot of people on either side, can actually have their heads screwed on?

kjl

Millicent wrote: »

That is what I am saying and thank you very much for summing it up better than I ever could have!

I haven't read the Life of Pi but it's definitely going on the "to read" list!

good, but please give it 50 pages.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

Saganist wrote: »

Dont mean to patronize you. But have you ever actually read the bible ?

Nothing but murdering, killing of children, slavery, burning in hell etc etc..

God was really a prick, espically in the old testament

I agree with you, there are some shocking stories in there that are better left forgotten. It's 2000 year old text. But what I meant was that in religion today they dont teach any of that and they never thought that to us in schools. But they did teach us good lessons, basically love thy neighbour. And I wouldnt mind having that taught to my kids
I have no doubt that they would form their own opinons growing up but its I dont think it would be any harm for them to be taught the same way I was

Religion is basically stories, most of which are bs imo, but there's some good ones and they tend to be the ones that are focused upon these days

kjl

Jakkass wrote: »

Or indeed, isn't it possible that believers can actually be intelligent?

I hate to use this point again, but if a grown up told you they still believed in Santa, would you call them smart? Well that's how we feel about you. No offense.

humanji

To cut to the chase, OP, prove the theory of gravity. You can't. But you know it's there. Now there are some who believe in a god because they are desperate for there to be something more to this life. Others believe because it was the way they were brought up and they never questioned that. There's loads of other reasons. But the main one is that, like you and gravity, they simply know a god exists.

Personally, I think it's a load of rubbish and it really doesn't bother me. But if a god exists and appears before me, falls to his/her knees and begs my fogiveness for all the terrible things that have happened that they could have stopped yet didn't, then I'll fall to my knees and beg forgiveness for ever doubting their existence.

Until then, I've better things to worry about than what others believe. Except scientologists. Thost guys are f*cked up.

Millicent

kjl wrote: »

I hate to use this point again, but if a grown up told you they still believed in Santa, would you call them smart? Well that's how we feel about you. No offense.

Kjl, why do you care? Honestly? To each their own. I'm sure you have quirks or beliefs that others don't share but would you tolerate them openly mocking you? Who cares what Jakkass or any grown up believes if it gives them peace and doesn't affect you?

epgc3fyqirnbsx

humanji wrote: »

To cut to the chase, OP, prove the theory of gravity. You can't. But you know it's there. Now there are some who believe in a god because they are desperate for there to be something more to this life. Others believe because it was the way they were brought up and they never questioned that. There's loads of other reasons. But the main one is that, like you and gravity, they simply know a god exists.

Personally, I think it's a load of rubbish and it really doesn't bother me. But if a god exists and appears before me, falls to his/her knees and begs my fogiveness for all the terrible things that have happened that they could have stopped yet didn't, then I'll fall to my knees and beg forgiveness for ever doubting their existence.

Until then, I've better things to worry about than what others believe. Except scientologists. Thost guys are f*cked up.

I wish I just said this

Saganist

Jakkass wrote: »

For the same reason as God? Absolutely, if it was to play a part in preventing human sacrifice in the future.

I just find it curious, that people think they have everyone sussed out, and that they must by extension by so much more superior than them. Isn't it possible that a lot of believers can actually have a solid faith, and know about it to a good level?

Or indeed, isn't it possible that believers can actually be intelligent?

I mean, it is more the narcissistic / prejudiced attitude that comes across in many anti-theist posts on this website, that really makes people (I assume it isn't just me) cringe a little inside.

Isn't it possible that a lot of people on either side, can actually have their heads screwed on?

My point exactly. If you have your head screwed on. ( like me I think ) then we can without doubt say that what God was asking was immoral. We have a higher moral standard now by far than anything that was around 2000 years ago. Can you not see that ? God is irrelevant !

What I'm trying to get at is we can still have the same level of morality ( superior even ) without any type God. Fine, the Bible can be a resource for some kind of standard etc, however, the words written in it do not make it truth !

philologos

Saganist wrote: »

My point exactly. If you have your head screwed on. ( like me I think ) then we can without doubt say that what God was asking was immoral. We have a higher moral standard now by far than anything that was around 2000 years ago. Can you not see that ? God is irrelevant !

I disagree, if God was actually communicating a message to Abraham, that He actually doesn't expect child sacrifice by the Isaac incident (which was stopped just before it took place), then it was a positive lesson to teach in comparison to the actual child sacrifice that was taking place in the rest of the Middle East at that time.

Saganist wrote: »

What I'm trying to get at is we can still have the same level of morality ( superior even ) without any type God. Fine, the Bible can be a resource for some kind of standard etc, however, the words written in it do not make it truth !

I never said that just because the words are written makes it true. I believe it is true because I find that it makes real sense. It's really as simple as that.

gbee

kjl wrote: »

I hate to use this point again, but if a grown up told you they still believed in Santa, would you call them smart? Well that's how we feel about you. No offense.

Still believed in his or her childhood Santa, as in the presents were magical and FREE gifts that had not cost their parents, sort of Santa?

I'm proud to say my children, five off, never believed in Santa. I believe truth is paramount to well being and freedom to develop their own individuality.

Millicent

humanji wrote: »

To cut to the chase, OP, prove the theory of gravity. You can't. But you know it's there. Now there are some who believe in a god because they are desperate for there to be something more to this life. Others believe because it was the way they were brought up and they never questioned that. There's loads of other reasons. But the main one is that, like you and gravity, they simply know a god exists.

Personally, I think it's a load of rubbish and it really doesn't bother me. But if a god exists and appears before me, falls to his/her knees and begs my fogiveness for all the terrible things that have happened that they could have stopped yet didn't, then I'll fall to my knees and beg forgiveness for ever doubting their existence.

Until then, I've better things to worry about than what others believe. Except scientologists. Thost guys are f*cked up.

I'm almost 100% with you here. However, the letting terrible things happen thing is not compatible with the idea of free will or life maintaining balance. IIRC, I learned that God let these things happen because it was up to people how they lived their lives and they would have their reward or punishment in the afterlife.

MrSir

OK I've read through this entire thread in great detail which contain some interesting points on both sides. It's a complicated subject and reading all these comments I only have one thing to say.


I REALLY like peanut butter.

Saganist

Jakkass wrote: »

I disagree, if God was actually communicating a message to Abraham, that He actually doesn't expect child sacrifice by the Isaac incident (which was stopped just before it took place), then it was a positive lesson to teach in comparison to the actual child sacrifice that was taking place in the rest of the Middle East at that time.



I never said that just because the words are written makes it true. I believe it is true because I find that it makes real sense. It's really as simple as that.

Well that a pretty fecked up way to go about it if you ask me. Dont you agree ? Why do that. He had that fella in a state thinking about killing his child just so he could make a point about other societies killing their children ? Why didnt he pick one of them that WAS killing their children ?? Its a warped logic and fails on every level !

I'm sure it makes sense to you. It made sense to people 2000 years ago. However, we have advanced since then !

Think about it !

sheesh

I hate to break it to you but having a religious belief has been shown to be very good for you

why do you want to rain on their parade ?

you appear to be a person approaches someone who looks happy and then points out to them reasons why they shouldn't be happy.

whether god exists or not is unimportant

gbee

Millicent wrote: »

because it was up to people how they lived their lives and they would have their reward or punishment in the afterlife.

Where do I go for those seven virgins again?

LeprachaunPope

Listen to the Pope and you'll avoid the Dreaded Purgatory!

kjl

Millicent wrote: »

Kjl, why do you care? Honestly? To each their own. I'm sure you have quirks or beliefs that others don't share but would you tolerate them openly mocking you? Who cares what Jakkass or any grown up believes if it gives them peace and doesn't affect you?

Right, sorry, I thought this was a discussion forum. If I got on here and said I believed in pyramid power, I'm sure I would be mocked. Would you post the same comment? Honestly?

Millicent

gbee wrote: »

Where do I go for those seven virgins again?

What do you want with virgins?! It's the Jezebels you wanna get rewarded with. N00b. :P

kjl

LeprachaunPope wrote: »

Listen to the Pope and you'll avoid the Dreaded Purgatory!

Well the pope is off with his prostitute next store http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055984298

humanji

Millicent wrote: »

I'm almost 100% with you here. However, the letting terrible things happen thing is not compatible with the idea of free will or life maintaining balance. IIRC, I learned that God let these things happen because it was up to people how they lived their lives and they would have their reward or punishment in the afterlife.

If a god is all powerful, then they have the power to do as they please, which includes stopping terrible things from happening. For example. Hitler could choose (free will) to order the killing of Jews, but God could appear and say "I'm afraid I can't let that happen", and it's wouldn't. By letting it happen, they're just as guilty of it, in my mind.

kjl

sheesh wrote: »

I hate to break it to you but having a religious belief has been shown to be very good for you

why do you want to rain on their parade ?

you appear to be a person approaches someone who looks happy and then points out to them reasons why they shouldn't be happy.

whether god exists or not is unimportant

anyone else study the essence of z, if so I would say cites+

Millicent

kjl wrote: »

Right, sorry, I thought this was a discussion forum. If I got on here and said I believed in pyramid power, I'm sure I would be mocked. Would you post the same comment? Honestly?

Sorry, I wasn't trying to shut down the discussion so apologies if it seemed like that. I am honestly curious why it bothers you. And you're right, I probably would be sceptical of pyramid power but if you weren't harming anyone and it made you happy, it wouldn't really bother me.

Donkey Oaty

sheesh wrote: »

I hate to break it to you but having a religious belief has been shown to be very good for you

why do you want to rain on their parade ?

you appear to be a person approaches someone who looks happy and then points out to them reasons why they shouldn't be happy.

whether god exists or not is unimportant

I'd agree with that if most of the believers were like Jakkass, who doesn't seem to want to interfere with other people's freedom.

Saganist

sheesh wrote: »

I hate to break it to you but having a religious belief has been shown to be very good for you

why do you want to rain on their parade ?

you appear to be a person approaches someone who looks happy and then points out to them reasons why they shouldn't be happy.

whether god exists or not is unimportant

I agree. As long as they keep it to themselves !

kjl

humanji wrote: »

If a god is all powerful, then they have the power to do as they please, which includes stopping terrible things from happening. For example. Hitler could choose (free will) to order the killing of Jews, but God could appear and say "I'm afraid I can't let that happen", and it's wouldn't. By letting it happen, they're just as guilty of it, in my mind.

I'm sorry Adolf, I can't do that.

Millicent

humanji wrote: »

If a god is all powerful, then they have the power to do as they please, which includes stopping terrible things from happening. For example. Hitler could choose (free will) to order the killing of Jews, but God could appear and say "I'm afraid I can't let that happen", and it's wouldn't. By letting it happen, they're just as guilty of it, in my mind.

Yeah, I see where you're coming from but then you have people behaving themselves cos a big angry God is (literally) gonna whoop them. I don't think I like the idea of that. Kind of makes God a bit of a dictator (in theory!).

ETA: kjl's post just reminded me that the soldiers had free will to say no too.

philologos

Saganist wrote: »

Well that a pretty fecked up way to go about it if you ask me. Dont you agree ? Why do that. He had that fella in a state thinking about killing his child just so he could make a point about other societies killing their children ? Why didnt he pick one of them that WAS killing their children ?? Its a warped logic and fails on every level!

I take it this is the back up plan for when I don't agree that God is immoral? :pac:

In fact, if I am being truly honest with you, I think that God did it perfectly. God also promised Abraham that through His descendants, He would impact the entire world with the values that He had inspired Abraham with.

kjl

Millicent wrote: »

Sorry, I wasn't trying to shut down the discussion so apologies if it seemed like that. I am honestly curious why it bothers you. And you're right, I probably would be sceptical of pyramid power but if you weren't harming anyone and it made you happy, it wouldn't really bother me.

I don't know why, but stupidity bothers me. I think it holds back mankind.