How do people still belive in God?

Wolfe Tone

SoupyNorman wrote: »

'John 3:16' is it not supposed to be?

Austin 3:16 says shut the hell up!



And pray.

Mrmoe

sheesh wrote: »

I hate to break it to you but having a religious belief has been shown to be very good for you

why do you want to rain on their parade ?

you appear to be a person approaches someone who looks happy and then points out to them reasons why they shouldn't be happy.

whether god exists or not is unimportant

Good for the individual but not for society. I can also show numerous cases where religion is also not good for the individual.

Millicent

kjl wrote: »

I don't know why, but stupidity bothers me. I think it holds back mankind.

There are Christian scientists, theologians, writers, artists, etc. etc. Do you consider them all to be stupid? Certainly their contributions to society are not holding back mankind. I think religion is only limiting when it is used as a stranglehold- when it is not used like that, it can encourage different perspectives and ideas. Nothing wrong with that.

gbee

humanji wrote: »

For example. Hitler could choose (free will) to order the killing of Jews, but God could appear and say "I'm afraid I can't let that happen", and it's wouldn't. By letting it happen, they're just as guilty of it, in my mind.

Érm, maybe you could come up with a different analogy.

Psssssst. The Jews killed his [God's] son .... Hitler was [actually] doing God's will by executing them.

Donkey Oaty

gbee wrote: »

Érm, maybe you could come up with a different analogy.

Psssssst. The Jews killed his [God's] son .... Hitler was [actually] doing God's will by executing them.

Romans killed him, not the Jews.

Also, as Harry Hill has asked, do you think that if Jesus had smartened himself up a bit for the trial he might have got off with a lighter sentence?

epgc3fyqirnbsx

gbee wrote: »

Érm, maybe you could come up with a different analogy.

Psssssst. The Jews killed his [God's] son .... Hitler was [actually] doing God's will by executing them.

yeah but jesus was jewish too...

and you might get in trouble for saying that :pac:

Roamc

Let's assume this 'God Theory' is true. Do you really think that your God is happy with discriminative, bigoted, ignorant humans, Who use God as an excuse for being so. Think about it, surely if there is a 'God' and he chooses our destinies then he chose to make a person the way they are. Pope Sidious there not long ago said that being a female priest is the same as child abuse. WTF?!?! The chap's supposed to be advocating God, and instead he does crap like this that completely turns people against him. He said that the biggest thing in the world we face today is abortion and same-sex marriage, there not bad at all.

We also have groups like the Westboro Baptist Church going around saying God Hates Everyone, Especially the Homosexual community but they believe in destiny so, in a sense they contradict themselves.

But, Why would this all loving God still have faith in his creations after they turn against each other and effectively use him as an excuse to do so.

Millicent

To put another spin on this, it's possible to believe in a God or deity or sentient being or common energy or what have you without subscribing to a religion.

I adore this quote from Rufus in the film Dogma; it makes a lot of sense.

Rufus:
He still digs humanity, but it bothers Him to see the sh1t that gets carried out in His name - wars, bigotry, televangelism. But especially the factioning of all the religions. He said humanity took a good idea and, like always, built a belief structure on it.
Bethany: Having beliefs isn't good?
Rufus: I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. Life should be malleable and progressive; working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth; new ideas can't generate. Life becomes stagnant.

vampire of kilmainham

I know that God is there i dont have anything do with the church or any orginised religions you dont need them they are evil and corrupt rember God is within us and all around us and not in bricks and morter or stone those who choose not to belive it's up to you but stop acting like false prophets trying to convert others. IV checked out the science and all the other arguments that God dosent exist but i know personally that he does so all you non belivers crawl into your own corner with your own belifes and i'll stay in my corner with mine...

philologos

Roamc wrote: »

Let's assume this 'God Theory' is true. Do you really think that your God is happy with discriminative, bigoted, ignorant humans, Who use God as an excuse for being so. Think about it, surely if there is a 'God' and he chooses our destinies then he chose to make a person the way they are. Pope Sidious there not long ago said that being a female priest is the same as child abuse. WTF?!?! The chap's supposed to be advocating God, and instead he does crap like this that completely turns people against him. He said that the biggest thing in the world we face today is abortion and same-sex marriage, there not bad at all.

We also have groups like the Westboro Baptist Church going around saying God Hates Everyone, Especially the Homosexual community but they believe in destiny so, in a sense they contradict themselves.

But, Why would this all loving God still have faith in his creations after they turn against each other and effectively use him as an excuse to do so.

I think He thinks the world is a mess, for a lot of reasons. Many of which are described in your post.

Donkey Oaty

Jakkass wrote: »

I think He thinks the world is a mess, for a lot of reasons. Many of which are described in your post.

However - paradoxically - it's perfect, you think?

Saganist

Jakkass wrote: »

I think He thinks the world is a mess, for a lot of reasons. Many of which are described in your post.

Cheers for responding to my post !

philologos

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

However - paradoxically - it's perfect, you think?

As far as I know, most Christians would attribute all of these things to fallen humanity, and rejecting God.

Most Christians also believe that this existence will end, and that Jesus Christ will return to judge the world.

gbee

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Romans killed him, not the Jews.?

Being pedantic, yes, but the Jews invoked their law ~ as you know Christ had no quarrel with the Romans and in fact dismissed Christ, but it was the insistence of Jews that Rome honour their agreement that local law could proceed, as long as it did not contravene the governing Roman law.

The Jews or local legislature had no power to enforce their own laws, except to entreat the local Roman governor, which they did.

So, whilst it is technically the Romans who tied 'a' Christ to a tree, they were the instruments in the same way as the hangman is an instruments of the courts in the specific jurisdiction that they control.

Donkey Oaty

Jakkass wrote: »

As far as I know, most Christians would attribute all of these things to fallen humanity, and rejecting God.

Most Christians also believe that this existence will end, and that Jesus Christ will return to judge the world.

I'm bowing out of this discussion very shortly, but do you think he will look kindly on non-believers like Millicent and Slasher, who have shown themselves to be no threat whatsoever to Christian values?

Millicent

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

I'm bowing out of this discussion very shortly, but do you think he will look kindly on non-believers like Millicent and Slasher, who have shown themselves to be no threat whatsoever to Christian values?

Ooh, I wanna know this too!

vampire of kilmainham

Jakkass wrote: »

I'm pretty confident that there isn't any.

Irrespective of this, why would it be important to you if I renounce God's existence or not? - It has no benefit to me, and it more than likely doesn't have any benefit to you. That is if we merely go back into the ground after we die.

Yea our body goes into the ground the spirit lives on.

Donkey Oaty

Millicent wrote: »

Ooh, I wanna know this too!

Well, you'll find out sooner or later (if Jakkass is right about the second coming).

Popeyes

kjl wrote: »

I have been wondering recently how does anyone think god exists. Like I can understand when we were back in the stupid ages before we knew what we know now, but how does anyone with an iq over 10 still believe nowadays?

I was on Grafton street last Saturday and there were a bunch of guys holding the "John 3:7" signs, I decided to question them. I made a lot of valid points to them which they completely ignored and feed me a bunch of circular reasoning to prove they were right.

Can anyone here who still believes explain your justification

I'm living proof that God exists - as he made me for the delight and pleasure of pretty girls everywhere.

It was for this purpose he put me on earth - and I am duly full filling my obligation to him.
So there's your proof.

Edit: Although I suppose you'll want photographic evidence..

epgc3fyqirnbsx

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Well, you'll find out sooner or later (if Jakkass is right about the second coming).

Thats a great question though and one I've often thought about. Supposing whatever your religion might be to be the one true religion. Well it's hardly fair if you were born somewhere where it didnt exist but still lived a great and virtuous life! where does that leave ya!?

Wolfe Tone

Gannon Rhythmic Watchman wrote: »

Thats a great question though and one I've often thought about. Supposing whatever your religion might be to be the one true religion. Well it's hardly fair if you were born somewhere where it didnt exist but still lived a great and virtuous life! where does that leave ya!?

There is an answer to that... cant remember it though. Asked a priest that once. Happy ever after I think.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

There is an answer to that... cant remember it though. Asked a priest that once. Happy ever after I think.

ah thats grand so!

Donkey Oaty

Gannon Rhythmic Watchman wrote: »

ah thats grand so!

On that note, goodnight folks!

vampire of kilmainham

kjl wrote: »

Because of all the crap that has happened in the name of god.

Yes a lot of terrible things have happened in the name of God but dont confuse that with God it was all carried out by corrupt religions and we all know the terrible attrocities that were commited through history and they were carried out by who other then man himself.

vampire of kilmainham

starbelgrade wrote: »

How come, that any time - day or night, 365 days a year - if a thread is started about God, the church or Christianity, that within 2 pages, Jakkass appears, out of the blue, as if he has been summoned by a higher power?

Is it possible, that he is omnipresent?

He crawles out of hell:eek::eek::eek:

baldbear

Couldn't put this video up properly. Heres a link. George Carlin good take on God!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

gbee

vampire of kilmainham wrote: »

the terrible attrocities that were commited through history and they were carried out by who other then man himself.

Who invoked God as legitimisation of same atrocities.

vampire of kilmainham

MagicMarker wrote: »

I hope not, it's bad enough thinking my dead grandmother watches me when I masturbate.

Id say wankin is what your best at:D:D:D:D:D:D

Einhard

kjl wrote: »

Can anyone here who still believes explain your justification

I'm an atheist. Last December my mother died. I carried her coffin and watched as it was lowered down into the grave. The thing which affected me most was knowing that that was it. I would never see her again. All I had were the memories which would fade in time. It still cuts me up inside.

My younger sister and most of my family believe in God. They were all in bits obviously, but they all fully believe that they weill see her again. Even more, they believe that she's with them every day. They talk to her when they're alone, and they believe she's listening. They think that she's watching over them.

I've never been a militant atheist, but I've always been confident in my beliefs, and liked a good arguement over the existence of God. I liked assailing them with my irrestistible logic, smug in the knowledge that I was right, disbelieving that they couldn't see that.

Now though, I quietly envy them. Not in an all consuming manner, mind. I've come to terms with my mother's death, and I live with her memory. But I live every day with the fact that I will never meet her again. I visit her grave and I stand there mutely. I don't speak to her because she's not there. I don't invoke her to aid me in what I'm doing. I don't feel comforted by her presence. And I look at my little sister, who is the opposite of me, and I wish I could believe. Immediately after the funeral I even tried to delude myself that I could believe in God, and more pertinently, believe in the afterlife, and my mother's place in it. I couldn't though. And I wish I could. I lose nothing by a vague belief in some vgue God. I gain nothing by disbelief. It used lend me a certain smug satisfaction, but not anymore.

The reason I say all this (apart from the fact that I'm somewhat drunk), is to illustrate the positive power of faith. When all is said and done, were I offered the chance to delude myself into belief, I'd like to think I'd turn it down. And I like a good debate over the existence of God. But I would never, ever try to convince my sister that her she is fooling herself, that there is no God, and that she'll never see her mother again. And I'd never scorn someone for believing in God. Faith, though I may not share it, helps people get on with their lives every single day. Some people wouldn't be able to go on without it. So who am I to mock them, to scorn them as living in the "stupid ages"? Who am I to tell people their hope is false, that the truth will set them free? I know that's false. My truth, my disbelief in God, is a burden for me. I'm prepared to shoulder that, and I'm prepared to argue the case for my lack of faith, but I'd never disdain genuine belief or those who believe. Too many atheists however have no such compulsions however. The sad irony is that they fail to see that they share this intolerance with the religious fundamentalists they abhor.

Millicent

Einhard wrote: »

I'm an atheist. Last December my mother died. I carried her coffin and watched as it was lowered down into the grave. The thing which affected me most was knowing that that was it. I would never see her again. All I had were the memories which would fade in time. It still cuts me up inside.

My younger sister and most of my family believe in God. They were all in bits obviously, but they all fully believe that they weill see her again. Even more, they believe that she's with them every day. They talk to her when they're alone, and they believe she's listening. They think that she's watching over them.

I've never been a militant atheist, but I've always been confident in my beliefs, and liked a good arguement over the existence of God. I liked assailing them with my irrestistible logic, smug in the knowledge that I was right, disbelieving that they couldn't see that.

Now though, I quietly envy them. Not in an all consuming manner, mind. I've come to terms with my mother's death, and I live with her memory. But I live every day with the fact that I will never meet her again. I visit her grave and I stand there mutely. I don't speak to her because she's not there. I don't invoke her to aid me in what I'm doing. I don't feel comforted by her presence. And I look at my little sister, who is the opposite of me, and I wish I could believe. Immediately after the funeral I even tried to delude myself that I could believe in God, and more pertinently, believe in the afterlife, and my mother's place in it. I couldn't though. And I wish I could. I lose nothing by a vague belief in some vgue God. I gain nothing by disbelief. It used lend me a certain smug satisfaction, but not anymore.

The reason I say all this (apart from the fact that I'm somewhat drunk), is to illustrate the positive power of faith. When all is said and done, were I offered the chance to delude myself into belief, I'd like to think I'd turn it down. And I like a good debate over the existence of God. But I would never, ever try to convince my sister that her she is fooling herself, that there is no God, and that she'll never see her mother again. And I'd never scorn someone for believing in God. Faith, though I may not share it, helps people get on with their lives every single day. Some people wouldn't be able to go on without it. So who am I to mock them, to scorn them as living in the "stupid ages"? Who am I to tell people their hope is false, that the truth will set them free? I know that's false. My truth, my disbelief in God, is a burden for me. I'm prepared to shoulder that, and I'm prepared to argue the case for my lack of faith, but I'd never disdain genuine belief or those who believe. Too many atheists however have no such compulsions however. The sad irony is that they fail to see that they share this intolerance with the religious fundamentalists they abhor.

Einhard, sorry to hear about your mother. Just wanted to compliment the eloquence of your post and say how much I admire the thought you've put into the situation. It'd be great to have more people like you on both sides of the debate.