McDowell highlights 'gap in the market' in Irish politics

Liam Byrne

feelingstressed wrote: »

Probably the best debater in the Dail and has strong views and principles even if you don't agree with them.

But at least he'd speak up and get his views out there.

I used to think exactly this - and admire him even when I disagreed with him - until he rolled over on Ahern's then emerging finances and corruption.

Apparently his principles can be foregone when he feels like it.

RATM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I used to think exactly this - and admire him even when I disagreed with him - until he rolled over on Ahern's then emerging finances and corruption.

Apparently his principles can be foregone when he feels like it.

Agree with this totally. When he got dumped in 2007 I must admit I was chuffed, especially after he got hammered by Gormley over his smear campaign during the infamous incident in Ranelagh.

Another great debater in that Dail was Joe Higgins. His tongue-lashings, turns of phrase and similes were pure entertainment.

Although I don't agree with a lot of what Higgins or McDowell had to say I feel it is healthy for democracy to have politicans like them, with true passion and conviction in their beliefs. And because of this I hope both of them make it back to the Dail next time out.

evercloserunion

Eh, that "gap" is there for a reason. It's not like the people want a PD-type government but have no one in that vein to vote for; quite the opposite. This country is crawling with right-wing nutjobs who in fact massively influenced economic policy for years but were firmly rejected in the 2007 GE (and again in the 2010 Euros, if you count Libertas).

irishh_bob

evercloserunion wrote: »

Eh, that "gap" is there for a reason. It's not like the people want a PD-type government but have no one in that vein to vote for; quite the opposite. This country is crawling with right-wing nutjobs who in fact massively influenced economic policy for years but were firmly rejected in the 2007 GE (and again in the 2010 Euros, if you count Libertas).

care to list some of theese right wing nutjobs ????

Liam Byrne

RATM wrote: »

Agree with this totally.

I feel it is healthy for democracy to have politicans like them, with true passion and conviction in their beliefs.

OK, consider me confused.

How does someone who does a complete u-turn indicate "passion and conviction in their beliefs" ?

If you agreed with me totally, then you'd believe that Irish politics is better off with less u-turning politicians who bluster one opinion and implement the opposite.

imme

This is how I see the mooted return of McDowell the 'Watchdog of Fianna Fail', "one party government no thanks", and all that!

He proved useless as a watchdog and pretty much useless as Minister for Justice, it's funny to read his Wikipedia page and see his tenure there broken down, his lack of achievement of well anything much. Being a lawyer he's able to talk, that seems to be all though. He was one of the most illiberal Minister for Law Reform we've ever had.

As AG it was McDowell who recommended that the failed Office of The Financial Regulator be established.

He's a politicial junkie so it seems, he can't keep away. His yo-yo career is ended by the electorate so he walks away, then comes back, then announces he's retiring from active politicial life, then sort of announces he wants back in.

I'm reminded of the time he attacked Richard Bruton and called him the "Joseph Goebbels of propaganda..." and said that in achievements that he was 'knee high to.." him. It seemed so immature and petulant.

Please stay where you are Michael, write a few books or something.

johnnyskeleton

Dob74 wrote: »

Fianna Fail are now members of the Liberal grouping. After 10 years of coalition the PD's converted them.

This is often said but I don't think it is right. In fact, the converse is more probably true that during their periods of government with FF the PDs became much more like FF than FF did like the PDs. The areas that they did have influence over FF were areas such as crime and immigration, but economically and in terms of parish pump politics by the end the PDs were just FF junior.

So the party line when they disbanded was that there was no longer any need for them as the other parties had become just like them. But then why are there such strong calls for a right wing small government party at the moment? It would be much more honest to say that they became more like the other parties than the other parties became more like them.

Essexboy

imme wrote: »

This is how I see the mooted return of McDowell the 'Watchdog of Fianna Fail', "one party government no thanks", and all that!

He proved useless as a watchdog and pretty much useless as Minister for Justice, it's funny to read his Wikipedia page and see his tenure there broken down, his lack of achievement of well anything much. Being a lawyer he's able to talk, that seems to be all though. He was one of the most illiberal Minister for Law Reform we've ever had.

As AG it was McDowell who recommended that the failed Office of The Financial Regulator be established.

He's a politicial junkie so it seems, he can't keep away. His yo-yo career is ended by the electorate so he walks away, then comes back, then announces he's retiring from active politicial life, then sort of announces he wants back in.

I'm reminded of the time he attacked Richard Bruton and called him the "Joseph Goebbels of propaganda..." and said that in achievements that he was 'knee high to.." him. It seemed so immature and petulant.

Please stay where you are Michael, write a few books or something.

Yes!

johnnyskeleton

Het-Field wrote: »

1.McDowell revolutionised the Law of Evidence in his final days to ensure a safer and more active system prevails when it comes to dealing with criminals.

How so? He managed to get a few new criminal acts passed, but there wasn't much of a change after that. The biggest changes have come in the last year by the FF/Greens government.

Het-Field wrote: »

3.He stood up to the IRA and the insurgents in Sinn Fein. Shutting up a party which is economically illiterate, and wholly regressive, was a complete success. It is important to remember that the likes of Sinn Fein have stood behind the murderers of Gerry McCabe, and have openly declared support for them. They are a scourage and McDowell highlighted that.

Yet during that period SF have gone from strength to strength while the PDs fell apart. In terms of what counts in politics (i.e. votes) it certainly seems like SF won that confrontation.

Het-Field wrote: »

4.Thornton Hall. Prima Facie, that appears to be a flawed project. However, it appears that it is on the cusp of going ahead. A super prison is exactly what Ireland needs if we wish to dole out larger sentences, engage in prisoner rehabilitation, and get prisoners working, rather then idol. Would you prefer they remain in Mountjoy living in their own excreta ?

A new prison is badly needed, but the costs to date of what has only been a very expensive field in North County Dublin seems excessive. We could probably buy land in the midlands and build a prison right now for what we paid for the Thornton Hall site.

Het-Field wrote: »

5.He gave people the right to have their say on the pressing matter of Immigration in 2004. This was socially liberal in a democracy, and it was economically liberal, as its passage guaranteed a large saving to the taxpayer, which was liable to be paid out if the referendum on citizenship had not passed. It also gave the people a chance to have their say on what the courts had decided in Lobe v Osyande in 2003

That was socially and economically conservative. Socially liberal policies encourage things like immigration and the right to nationality. Social conservaties on the other hand favour closed borders and lesser rights for those to be considered of lesser pedigree. Again, the economically liberal thing is to have completely open borders so that people can travel to where the work is thus reducing wage demands and allowing the best workers to do the work. Economically conservative policies discourage immigration so that wages can be kept artificially high and there is less competition for each job.

It was also, as KOTJ points out, a referendum caused by political pressure from other EU states because of the Chen case. FF quite correctly realised that it wouldn't get them any votes and could lose them a lot of votes, so they let McD champion that cause.