France to expel Roma illegals - should we follow?

wes

Narim wrote: »

Nicolas Sarkozy’s Jewish Heritage

http://www.pascalsview.com/pascalsview/2007/05/nicolas-sarkozys-jewish-heritage.html

See if Sarkozy is jewish or not..

Banging on about Sarkozy Jewish heritiage isn't on. Its no different than him singling out Roma's.

pickarooney

In any case, Sarkozy's smoke and mirrors deflection policies for the mouth-breathers are proving a resounding success again, just like the time he went on a crazy verbal crusade to keep delinquency dossiers on any kid acting up in the creche (just around that time a story broke about his involvement in a financial scandal), to put the parents of young offenders in prison (just around that time a story broke about his involvement in a financial scandal)...

prinz

wes wrote: »

Great, so perhaps the criteria for tackling them should be based on lets say something like how dangerous they are, as opposed to there race.

Indeed, which is why the crackdown came about. Roma rioting through a town burning cars, attacking the police station etc. 300 illegal camps. Up to 400,000 Roma in France, many of whom are illegally present.

wes wrote: »

Ok, then why did you mention Chinese gangs then? Who care if the criminals just so happen to be Chinese? I fail to see
how that changes anything.

Obviously you care, because that would be racism to mention their nationality right? It wouldn't just be stating the obvious for example.

wes

prinz wrote: »

Indeed, which is why the crackdown came about. Roma rioting through a town burning cars, attacking the police station etc. 300 illegal camps. Up to 400,000 Roma in France, many of whom are illegally present.

Which would be fine, if Sarkozy didn't use it as oppunrtunity to courts racist voters.

prinz wrote: »

Obviously you care, because that would be racism to mention their nationality right? It wouldn't just be stating the obvious for example.

Unless there race/nationality was in some way relevant, then I see no need to mention it.

prinz

wes wrote: »

Unless there race/nationality was in some way relevant, then I see no need to mention it.

Given that it was a move, sparked by a certain event, instigated by Roma, against illegal camps the majority of which are Roma populated I'd say it was fairly relevant to mention Roma, unless everyone should speak in code these days.

Narim

wes wrote: »

Banging on about Sarkozy Jewish heritiage isn't on. Its no different than him singling out Roma's.

Maybe not.. but he is suppose to be all about against racism.. right? He hates anti-semitism.. so why attack a race of people? I would like to know really.. how can he understand one type of racism and go about starting out racism?.. I don't think this is ignorance by his part.. He can't be that stupid..

prinz

Narim wrote: »

Maybe not.. but he is suppose to be all about against racism.. right? He hates anti-semitism.. so why attack a race of people? I would like to know really.. how can he understand one type of racism and go about starting out racism?.. I don't think this is ignorance by his part.. He can't be that stupid..

He's not attacking a race of people, he's initiating a move on a specific problem, namely the illegal camps of illegal Roma and others.

ejmaztec

Narim wrote: »

Maybe not.. but he is suppose to be all about against racism.. right? He hates anti-semitism.. so why attack a race of people? I would like to know really.. how can he understand one type of racism and go about starting out racism?.. I don't think this is ignorance by his part.. He can't be that stupid..

He's anti-illegal immigrant.

wes

prinz wrote: »

Given that it was a move, sparked by a certain event, instigated by Roma, against illegal camps the majority of which are Roma populated I'd say it was fairly relevant to mention Roma, unless everyone should speak in code these days.

Interesting interpretation there. Its seem pretty clear to me, that he was just stoking Anti-Roma sentiment to appeal to a certain part of the electorate.

Narim

The riot started because an officers shot and killed a gypsy youth in the Loire Valley, provoking a riot by others of his community. I thik it was about time the Roma showed they were upset.. Romas never rioted before. This is the first ever.

prinz

Narim wrote: »

The riot started because an officers shot and killed a gypsy youth in the Loire Valley, provoking a riot by others of his community. I thik it was about time the Roma showed they were upset.. Romas never rioted before. This is the first ever.

..and why were the police firing at the car he was in? So you think it acceptable for people to go around thrashing businesses, burning cars, attacking police stations etc when they get upset?

Irishcrx

Having recently been in France I can tell you they are an absolute nightmare over there, every street corner theres one begging and not like over here, they follow people, harrass people, become annoyed when you ignore them and they are all over the underground metro lines.

Fair play to France...for once.

General Zod

prinz wrote: »

Given that it was a move, sparked by a certain event, instigated by Roma, against illegal camps the majority of which are Roma populated I'd say it was fairly relevant to mention Roma, unless everyone should speak in code these days.

I thought the camp that the original problem occured in was a french traveller camp, not specifically a Roma one?

Narim

prinz wrote: »

..and why were the police firing at the car he was in? So you think it acceptable for people to go around thrashing businesses, burning cars, attacking police stations etc when they get upset?

Prinz, how else you would have a riot? Have you seen any other type? They were angry.. Of course they could of go for peacful demonstration but that might of been ignored.. I don't know.. I myself wouldn't go for a riot.. for a peaceful demonstration yes.

By the way, how many football fanatics riot? and destroy cars, businesses?

ejmaztec

Narim wrote: »

Prinz, how else you would have a riot? Have you seen any other type? They were angry.. Of course they could of go for peacful demonstration but that might of been ignored.. I don't know.. I myself wouldn't go for a riot.. for a peaceful demonstration yes.

By the way, how many football fanatics riot? and destroy cars, businesses?

If soccer thugs have a riot in another country, they're rounded up, charged with various offences, and are usually deported.

With some groups, there is an "Attack one and you attack us all" mentality. Whether the person shot is guilty or innocent, it makes no difference to the rest of the group, as they'll have a riot anyway.

pickarooney

ejmaztec wrote: »

With some groups, there is an "Attack one and you attack us all" mentality. Whether the person shot is guilty or innocent, it makes no difference to the rest of the group, as they'll have a riot anyway.

The person shot in this case was a teenage passenger in the car.

prinz

General Zod wrote: »

I thought the camp that the original problem occured in was a french traveller camp, not specifically a Roma one?

Some sources say Roma (Reuters amongst others), some say 'travellers who have been settled in the area for years' - which doesn't preclude them being Roma. They are playing semantics, the more established Roma communities distancing themselves from more recent immigrants.

Roma travelers rioted in the small village of Saint-Aignan, in the Loire Valley region of central France, on Sunday morning. Armed with hatchets and iron bars, they felled trees and traffic lights, torched cars and attacked the local bakery and police station. 300 soldiers were called in to ensure no more trouble.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5848059,00.html

Narim wrote: »

By the way, how many football fanatics riot? and destroy cars, businesses?

Yes people riot. Now are you going to address why there was a riot? Or why they should be allowed riot to show they're upset?

Narim

This is my last post today.. it's 2:32 AM in Australia, so have to leave you poundering with your friends.. Cheers..

President Sarkozy has been accused of stigmatising and failing to distinguish between Roma, Gypsy and traveling folk.

Bildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Sarkozy, with an investigation into donations and low poll ratings, is under pressure
"He has it in for all Roma camps which were illegally established," said Jean-Pierre Dubois, President of the French League of Human Rights. "It is therefore a question of an ethnically-grounded collective penalty. If you substitute the word 'Roma' for 'Jews,' then you can immediately see where the words of the President lead."
Sarkozy, who rose to prominence as an Interior Minister who was tough on crime, has also been accused of trying to gain political capital, to divert attention away from the Bettencourt scandal, which sees his UMP party under investigation for receiving illegal donations from France's richest woman.

ejmaztec

wes wrote: »

Great, so perhaps the criteria for tackling them should be based on lets say something like how dangerous they are, as opposed to there race.

I don't regard the expulsion of illegals, or the targeting of criminal gangs as a race issue.

Terry

Narim wrote: »

of course it is relevant.. the Jews claim to be on our side.. so what side are they on?

What the hell are you babbling on about?

wes wrote: »

A scourge? Hyperbole much.

Personally targetting one ethnic group like this is clearly racist. The only reason as stated by several other is that Sarkosy is trying to appeal to, well... people are racists. If he was truly concerend about illegal immigrants, he would target all of them, and not a group who are hated. Its typical bull**** populism from a politician.

For about the Fifth time in this thread, I will once again point out that only 2/3 of the camps are Roma occupied.
I don't see you defending the occupants of the other 1/3. Why is that?

Narim wrote: »

Sarkozy didn't have time to close down all of them yet.. he will.. can't you figure that out by yourself? Maybe ask Jesus... he will tell you..

Was that supposed to be a dig at Irish religious beliefs?
What you need to do when you are taking a dig at the majority religion in our country is mention paedophilia. Always guarantees a laugh.

moonpurple wrote: »

the Irish are deported every week from the US

Feckin' racist Yanks.

Narim wrote: »

I'm kind of disapointed you are Irish.. every Irish I met so far here in Aussie are like Wes. Very inteligent people.. except the guy in US on fox .. what's his name?

Bill O'Reilly is American.

Narim wrote: »

This is my last post today.. it's 2:32 AM in Australia, so have to leave you poundering with your friends.. Cheers..

President Sarkozy has been accused of stigmatising and failing to distinguish between Roma, Gypsy and traveling folk.

Bildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Sarkozy, with an investigation into donations and low poll ratings, is under pressure
"He has it in for all Roma camps which were illegally established," said Jean-Pierre Dubois, President of the French League of Human Rights. "It is therefore a question of an ethnically-grounded collective penalty. If you substitute the word 'Roma' for 'Jews,' then you can immediately see where the words of the President lead."
Sarkozy, who rose to prominence as an Interior Minister who was tough on crime, has also been accused of trying to gain political capital, to divert attention away from the Bettencourt scandal, which sees his UMP party under investigation for receiving illegal donations from France's richest woman.

This thread has already been Godwinned, thanks.

ejmaztec wrote: »

I don't regard the expulsion of illegals, or the targeting of criminal gangs as a race issue.

That's because it's not.

---

I've read about the Roma, seen documentaries about them and spoken to them. Their entire culture is based around begging and stealing. The vast majority of them will never seek employment.
It's just another in a long line of male dominated cultures. The men go out and steal, while the women are told by the men to go out and beg.

They rarely offer anything useful to the countries they move to.

admiralofthefleet

i saw it all today. i was standing outside the mater private having a smoke and saw two roma women across the road.
one of them opens a frash packet of smokes, lights one and gives another to her mate who takes one drag off it before throwing it on the ground and then jumps into a taxi
ive never given them a cent before and wont be starting, the same two were probably down in o connell street straight away begging

walshb

Leave the poor Roma alone; don't they bring their lovely culture here?
And, it's rubbing off on the locals from what I see. The long skanky dresses they were seem to be all the rage now with Irish women

cson

They should just extend the Red Line Luas into Dublin Port and into the sea. Lock all the doors after Abbey St.

Boom half the Roma population gone in one fell swoop.

johnhargrove

Deport all Roma now.

They're Europe's most hated ethnic group.

They're behind every scam in this country.

We should also spit on them, as it will probably sterilize them.

This people don't act like humans, so we shouldn't treat them as such

RMD

I frankly couldn't give 2 ****s if this is a Race issue or not in these circumstances. I'm normally a very left and liberal guy, I like immigration, I like having various cultures in Ireland etc, but the Romas? **** off home please.

They've done nothing positive to this country, they're thieves, liars, scammers and are nothing more than a scourge on our state. We need the same action done here.

Well done Sarkozy, need more politicians with balls to tackle actual problems.

wes

Terry wrote: »

I don't see you defending the occupants of the other 1/3. Why is that?

I don't remember anyone singling out the other group by race....

**edit**
Have you been reading this thread btw? Plenty of hatred being directed at the Roma, and the Roma alone. Am I suppose to ignore this?
**edit**

grizzly

Terry wrote: »

Their society is based around crime. They are, in my opinion, nothing but pests.

No pests are pests. They're human beings and deserve to be treated as such. They're born with feck all chance of getting anywhere in life. Could they hope to turn out any differently? I'm saddened the the hateful language here. It wasn't too long ago that people said the same things about the Irish.

wes

johnhargrove wrote: »

Deport all Roma now.

Where to?

johnhargrove wrote: »

They're Europe's most hated ethnic group.

Yes, and perhaps that needs to be changed.

johnhargrove wrote: »

They're behind every scam in this country.

Straight up bull**** lie.

johnhargrove wrote: »

We should also spit on them, as it will probably sterilize them.

Yes, spitting on people will help things.....

johnhargrove wrote: »

This people don't act like humans, so we shouldn't treat them as such

Yeah, the Nazi's tried that one and thankfully failed.....

Johro

Wibbs wrote: »

Anyone coming here with a view to work legally I have no problem with at all. Ditto with actual asylum seekers. Illegals or other guests who break our laws I would ship out in the morning. Roma(not Romanians) have a very bad rep europe wide, often for very good reason. So yes illegal Roma would be gone in a heartbeat if I had my way. Then again I am quite the Nazi on that score.

The problem is that most posters here are saying all Roma gypsies should get the hell out. Deal with law-breaking individuals, not minority groups. Its the tendency to generalise that gets people the racist or xenophobe tag. Justly.
I'm not surprised though. The OP not so long ago reckoned all the unemployed were scumbags and scroungers.

Redbhoy1969

Im sure lots of people saw a recent BBC documentary made by an Italian journalist who studied the Romas in various european countries for over a year.What was totally apparent and openly admitted by the romas themselves is their way of life is built around theft and petty crime.The Milan police dept considered the Roma crime threat to be so serious that a dedicated unit had to be set up just to combat this threat. In a very telling interview a family clan leader back in Romania,living in a mansion type home built from the proceeds of foreign crime,said that the Roma crime wave WORLDWIDE is now so serious that a within a few short years he considered that his people would become unwanted anywhere simply because the level of crime has gotten out of control.And where would his people go then?So its foolish to think that the assocation between Romas and petty crime is something made up its very very real.