Why Is Marijuana Illegal?

Pace2008

HavingCrack wrote: »

I really hope you're not saying that smoking a joint and driving is ok, because it isn't. It's drug driving and it's just as dangerous at driving under the influence of any other intoxicant such as alcohol. I support legalisation but I sure as hell don't support drug driving.

I agree. Getting behind the wheel whilst stoned may not be on the same level as drink-driving, but cannabis is an intoxicant nonetheless. You might not tend to overestimate your abilities as you would on drink, you might drive slower to compensate for the fact you’re baked, and chances are that no harm will come of it. But in the unlikely event that you end up in a situation where your reactions come into play, you’re not going to be functioning at full capacity.

I support the decriminalisation of all drugs, as criminalising the end user does nothing to attenuate drug-related problems and can land good people with career-ruining criminal records. I support the legalisation of certain drugs as I’m a proponent of individual liberty and believe that regulation would actually reduce the problems caused by their illegality.

I am against the legalisation of drugs that may find a new market as they come more readily available, and if an increase in usage would create widespread social and health problems that would impinge on the liberties of the population as a whole.

And the latter ties back to my attitude towards driving when stoned: personal drug use ceases to be a personal issue when it’s putting others in danger. The risks associated with driving on weed may be small, but excluding emergency situations, it’s easy enough to plan your schedule so that your driving time and leisure time don’t overlap. I think it’s a bit selfish and irresponsible if you don’t arrange it as such.

srsly78

I most certainly did not advocate driving whilst intoxicated. I just pointed out that the drugs effect is dissimilar to alcohol, as you have reiterated.

Let me point out that driving under the influence of alcohol is legal within certain limits. Would you agree that similar limits should be applied to other intoxicants? Or are we talking about "zero tolerance" here?

FWIW: I don't have a driving licence and have no intention of getting one.

Pace2008

srsly78 wrote: »

I most certainly did not advocate driving whilst intoxicated. I just pointed out that the drugs effect is dissimilar to alcohol, as you have reiterated.

Let me point out that driving under the influence of alcohol is legal within certain limits. Would you agree that similar limits should be applied to other intoxicants? Or are we talking about "zero tolerance" here?

There’s a bit of a difference, I think.

The goal of drinking alcohol is not always to get drunk, though this borders on a lie if you live in Ireland. Some people enjoy a glass of with their food, and such a quantity of booze will not generally result in intoxication. The legal blood-alcohol limits are set low, and rightfully so, so that people are discouraged from driving after consuming an amount of alcohol that would compromise their capabilities behind the wheel.

The goal of smoking weed in usually to get stoned. I prefer my joints* mixed with tobacco, but even after a few pulls of a mid-strength spliffs I’d feel the effects. Like alcohol, weed is enjoyable to consume, but most people smoke it with the intention of getting high.

That said, there’s certainly a world a difference between smoking half a one-skinner and blazing through five big, messy cones.

*Or my friends’ weed, to be precise. I’d only buy weed for myself a handful of times in a year, though I always contribute!

irishjay

we could talk bout this topic all year or decade long .. its the people up in the top of the ladder get the final word , and unfortunatly there older and less in tune wite the benifit of this the modern world... jay


we all know legal is the way to go .. lower crime and they will have tax to make the goverment income on it ... but this is ireland here ....
common sencse goes out the window

HavingCrack

srsly78 wrote: »

I most certainly did not advocate driving whilst intoxicated. I just pointed out that the drugs effect is dissimilar to alcohol, as you have reiterated.

Let me point out that driving under the influence of alcohol is legal within certain limits. Would you agree that similar limits should be applied to other intoxicants? Or are we talking about "zero tolerance" here?

FWIW: I don't have a driving licence and have no intention of getting one.

I must have misread your previous post so, apologies. To be honest with cannabis I don't know what would be an 'acceptable limit' to have consumed before driving, likewise with cough medicine for example.

HavingCrack

Pace2008 wrote: »

I agree. Getting behind the wheel whilst stoned may not be on the same level as drink-driving, but cannabis is an intoxicant nonetheless. You might not tend to overestimate your abilities as you would on drink, you might drive slower to compensate for the fact you’re baked, and chances are that no harm will come of it. But in the unlikely event that you end up in a situation where your reactions come into play, you’re not going to be functioning at full capacity.

I support the decriminalisation of all drugs, as criminalising the end user does nothing to attenuate drug-related problems and can land good people with career-ruining criminal records. I support the legalisation of certain drugs as I’m a proponent of individual liberty and believe that regulation would actually reduce the problems caused by their illegality.

I am against the legalisation of drugs that may find a new market as they come more readily available, and if an increase in usage would create widespread social and health problems that would impinge on the liberties of the population as a whole.

And the latter ties back to my attitude towards driving when stoned: personal drug use ceases to be a personal issue when it’s putting others in danger. The risks associated with driving on weed may be small, but excluding emergency situations, it’s easy enough to plan your schedule so that your driving time and leisure time don’t overlap. I think it’s a bit selfish and irresponsible if you don’t arrange it as such.

I think the highlighted text sums up my attitude towards driving under the influence of any intoxicant.

ricero

smoked sum class pollen d oda night and made me think to myself after like i was happy not violent and relaxed. Ive been to Amsterdam a few times and never once have i seen or had trouble in a night club or pub everyones friendly they need to make this **** legal over here but your always going to get owl ones moaning about the children

ScumLord

HavingCrack wrote: »

I must have misread your previous post so, apologies. To be honest with cannabis I don't know what would be an 'acceptable limit' to have consumed before driving, likewise with cough medicine for example.

The most logical course of action may well be zero tolerance for all drugs however when it comes to weed they'd need a new way of testing as they don't currently test for the active ingredient.

Mike 1972

German Police to Hippies: "Bah Humbug" :pac:

A two-metre marijuana plant decorated as a Christmas tree has been confiscated from the home of 'an old hippie' in Germany.

Police in the western city of Koblenz said they discovered the giant plant in the living room of the suspect.

'The two-metre-tall marijuana plant had been put in a Christmas tree stand and decorated with a string of lights,' the police said.

'When asked, the hashish fan told the perplexed officers that he had intended to add more decorations to the 'tree' and place the presents under it, according to tradition.'

Police seized the plant and another 150g of marijuana found in the apartment.

The man is now facing a drug possession charge.

German authorities yesterday said that a 21-year-old man in the southern city of Munich had been detained with a homemade Advent calendar with cannabis behind each little door instead of chocolate.

The suspect was released but now faces charges of possessing drugs

carfiosaoorl

Coffee shops in holland are closing because its not working. Its legal to sell and smoke it over there but its still illegal to grow it. So its still run by gangland criminals. As far as I know its against european law to grow cannabis and holland cant bypass that law. So for that reason I cant see it being legalised here.

Actually smoking and selling is not legal over there the police just choose to turn a blind eye

Jegger

you make a fair point, but rather then straight out legalization, why don't we just decriminalize it to begin with? In Berlin you can't be arrested for possession of under 10grams. this is a huge step forward and there are politicians over there who are constantly trying to increase it to 15/20grams and admit openly that they smoke. This is what we need here. Smokers need to speak out about it, "come out of the closet" if you will. If every marijuana user in ireland, (everyone from the terminally ill who use it as medicine to the college stoner to regular 9to5 workers) came to the "legalize marijuana" march then we would see some steps forward. "I hit it and I admit it"

RockinRolla

JonGaffer wrote: »

you make a fair point, but rather then straight out legalization, why don't we just decriminalize it to begin with? In Berlin you can't be arrested for possession of under 10grams. this is a huge step forward and there are politicians over there who are constantly trying to increase it to 15/20grams and admit openly that they smoke. This is what we need here. Smokers need to speak out about it, "come out of the closet" if you will. If every marijuana user in ireland, (everyone from the terminally ill who use it as medicine to the college stoner to regular 9to5 workers) came to the "legalize marijuana" march then we would see some steps forward. "I hit it and I admit it"

We can't legalise it until we leave the E.U because European law overrides Irish law - it's the reason Holland are having so much pressure on them with regards to their coffeeshops.

And, I fully support your claim to have it decriminalised. It certainly is a huge step forward. Most countries in Europe have it "decriminalised" - as in, you cannot be arrested or rather, enforcement chooses to turn a blind eye. Not least Portugal, who have decriminalised the use of all drugs. Here, we tend to follow in the footsteps of our British neighbours by being strict on it 100% - in fact, cannabis totaled a ludicrous 70% of all confiscations and convictions on the drug level in 2003 out of all relating narcotic offences in that year. If legalised, imagine how much money would be saved, never mind valuable Gardai personnel who would be fighting violent gun crime in our communities and not participating in wild goose chases.

It certainly makes no sense at this stage but we have no form of direct democracy in Ireland. Meaning, we can't petition to change a law. We can march all we want but nothing will be done. The only thing we can do, as a people, is to get behind a political party in favour of replacing the criminal framework with a regulated and administrative approach.

Where that party is, is anyones guess.

Angron

I used to be indifferent to the stuff, but now I resent it. A friend and I were at an 18th, and he decided to smoke a some with some lads. He was supposed to stay at mine, and that was grand. Then, next morning after he left, I go into the room, he had pissed all over the floor at some point during the night, and never said anything, or tried to even clean it up. He just acted like a tool because of it.


I'm not opposed to the making it legal, but everything in moderation damn it.

ScumLord

RockinRolla wrote: »

We can't legalise it until we leave the E.U because European law overrides Irish law - it's the reason Holland are having so much pressure on them with regards to their coffeeshops.

The EU have just said they're staying out of it and it's up to the individual EU states to set their own policy.

carfiosaoorl wrote: »

Coffee shops in holland are closing because its not working. Its legal to sell and smoke it over there but its still illegal to grow it. So its still run by gangland criminals. As far as I know its against european law to grow cannabis and holland cant bypass that law. So for that reason I cant see it being legalised here.

Actually smoking and selling is not legal over there the police just choose to turn a blind eye

It's decriminalised and your allowed to sell it through licensed premises. If you'd ever been to Amsterdam you'd see most coffeeshops are far from struggling. The reasons coffeeshops are shutting down has nothing to do with economics and everything to do with politics.

MagicSean

I firmly believe it should be decriminalised but not legalised.

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

1) It is not in any way, shape or form, addictive, mentally or physically.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by addictive. It may not be chemically addictive but it is definitely very habit forming and the effects can be very addictive.

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

2) It has unlimited and legitimate medical uses.

So let it be made available on prescription like other drugs. It isn't an argument for making it free for all.

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

3) It is not a "gateway" drug.

Yes it is but then again so is alcohol to some. It all depends on the individual taking it which is why a doctor should have a say in wether it should be made available to them.

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

4) If it was legal, organised crime would fall.

Ridiculous. The underworld does not depend on marijuana. It isn't as profitable as most other illegal business. Even if it were legalised and taxed people would still go to dealers to get cheaper stuff. Look at how much cigarette smuggling still goes on today.

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

5) Government can tax it and give tourism a boost.

The only way it will give tourism a boost is by attracting users. Might be a boost to the snack industry but thats about it.

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

The funny thing about this whole farce is, Marijuana has been legal in the Netherlands since the 30's and according to the consumption stats, the Dutch use the recreational drug the least. Not one recorded fatality has occurred from the use of marijuana, yet alcohol and tobacco are severe killers and they're still available.

What are you thoughts? Should it be available for purchase, legally?

The Dutch are a more mature people than the Irish. Most of Europe is.

MagicSean

By the way, there are three options. Illegal, legal or controlled. You should have all three in your poll. The way you've worded the options is biased too.

darkmaster2

Denny M wrote: »

I used to be indifferent to the stuff, but now I resent it. A friend and I were at an 18th, and he decided to smoke a some with some lads. He was supposed to stay at mine, and that was grand. Then, next morning after he left, I go into the room, he had pissed all over the floor at some point during the night, and never said anything, or tried to even clean it up. He just acted like a tool because of it.


I'm not opposed to the making it legal, but everything in moderation damn it.

Was there alcohol involved too?

Sounds more like too much alcohol to me. I haven't heard of anyone pissing all over the floor after cannabis, this is quite common after too much drink though.

30txsbzmcu2k9w

Denny M wrote: »

I used to be indifferent to the stuff, but now I resent it. A friend and I were at an 18th, and he decided to smoke a some with some lads. He was supposed to stay at mine, and that was grand. Then, next morning after he left, I go into the room, he had pissed all over the floor at some point during the night, and never said anything, or tried to even clean it up. He just acted like a tool because of it.


I'm not opposed to the making it legal, but everything in moderation damn it.

Was he drinking?

edit -what darkmaster said

Johro

reprazant wrote: »

Some of my friends are prime examples of how this is incorrect. After nearly 2 decades of continious smoking, they spend their lives in a unenthusiastic, lethargic haze which they seem incapable of escaping.

That's half the population, apathy rules, everywhere. You don't need to be a stoner for that. 'Aw i should be doing something... Oh hang on, X factor's on..'
I used to smoke loads of weed, then gave it up, without any problems I might add, for over six years, now I smoke the occasional one when I have friends round who smoke, if they don't, I don't. Maybe your friends are just lazy. Or unemployed, with no hope of a job. Or students. Whatever. They're not incapacitated through smoking a bit of weed.

ScumLord

k_mac wrote: »

I firmly believe it should be decriminalised but not legalised.

Why? What's the benefit of leaving it's production and distribution in the hands of criminals? I really don't understand this viewpoint unless your somehow involved in the illegal trade and don't want to have your income taxed.

MagicSean

ScumLord wrote: »

Why? What's the benefit of leaving it's production and distribution in the hands of criminals? I really don't understand this viewpoint unless your somehow involved in the illegal trade and don't want to have your income taxed.

I would hope that drugs companies would start producing it if it was decriminalised. By decriminalised I mean make it a prescription drug.

carfiosaoorl

ScumLord wrote: »

The EU have just said they're staying out of it and it's up to the individual EU states to set their own policy.

It's decriminalised and your allowed to sell it through licensed premises. If you'd ever been to Amsterdam you'd see most coffeeshops are far from struggling. The reasons coffeeshops are shutting down has nothing to do with economics and everything to do with politics.

Where did you hear that about the EU? Are you saying its no longer against eu law to grow cannabis.

I realise also that coffee shops are making money but because the supply of cannabis is still in the hands of criminals its destroying Amsterdam. They have major crime because of their laws. It attracts trouble. I would like to see it legalised here but only if it was legalised by the whole of europe.

mikom

carfiosaoorl wrote: »

I realise also that coffee shops are making money but because the supply of cannabis is still in the hands of criminals its destroying Amsterdam. They have major crime because of their laws. It attracts trouble.

It's getting so bad that they have had to close 8 prisons.......


The Dutch government is getting ready to close eight prisons because they don’t have enough criminals to fill them. Officials attribute the shortage of prisoners to a declining crime rate.

Just for fun, let’s compare the Netherlands to California. With a population of 16.6 million, the Dutch prison population is about 12,000. With its population of 36.7 million, California should have a bit more than double the Dutch prison population. California’s actual prison population is 171,000.

So, whose drug policies are keeping the streets safer?

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/drug-friendly-netherlands-to-close-8-prisons-not-enough-crime

Johro

k_mac wrote: »

I would hope that drugs companies would start producing it if it was decriminalised. By decriminalised I mean make it a prescription drug.

Jeez don't start me on drugs companies...
They're responsible for a lot of the world's ills, ironically.

MagicSean

mikom wrote: »

It's getting so bad that they have had to close 8 prisons.......


The Dutch government is getting ready to close eight prisons because they don’t have enough criminals to fill them. Officials attribute the shortage of prisoners to a declining crime rate.

Just for fun, let’s compare the Netherlands to California. With a population of 16.6 million, the Dutch prison population is about 12,000. With its population of 36.7 million, California should have a bit more than double the Dutch prison population. California’s actual prison population is 171,000.

So, whose drug policies are keeping the streets safer?

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/drug-friendly-netherlands-to-close-8-prisons-not-enough-crime

I don't see the relevance. All American prisons have massive populations. Are you suggesting that hash cafes have begun reducing crime rates?

carfiosaoorl

mikom wrote: »

It's getting so bad that they have had to close 8 prisons.......


The Dutch government is getting ready to close eight prisons because they don’t have enough criminals to fill them. Officials attribute the shortage of prisoners to a declining crime rate.

Just for fun, let’s compare the Netherlands to California. With a population of 16.6 million, the Dutch prison population is about 12,000. With its population of 36.7 million, California should have a bit more than double the Dutch prison population. California’s actual prison population is 171,000.

So, whose drug policies are keeping the streets safer?


http://www.opposingviews.com/i/drug-friendly-netherlands-to-close-8-prisons-not-enough-crime

I said Amsterdam has a huge crime rate not all of the netherlands. Look it up!

mikom

k_mac wrote: »

I don't see the relevance. All American prisons have massive populations. Are you suggesting that hash cafes have begun reducing crime rates?

Well carfiosaoorl said

They have major crime because of their laws. It attracts trouble.

8 prisons less worth of trouble, it looks like to me.

carfiosaoorl wrote: »

I said Amsterdam has a huge crime rate not all of the netherlands. Look it up!

Yep because all cannabis is grown in Amsterdam.
No one would ever think of growing in other quieter parts of the netherlands and hauling it into Amsterdam.

ziggyman17

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

Firstly, I want to express the fact that I am not a regular user of the drug itself, nor am I condoning it - I am just interested how society has labeled it negatively when they are unwilling to educate the ill-informed about the benefits.

1) It is not in any way, shape or form, addictive, mentally or physically.
2) It has unlimited and legitimate medical uses.
3) It is not a "gateway" drug.
4) If it was legal, organised crime would fall.
5) Government can tax it and give tourism a boost.

The funny thing about this whole farce is, Marijuana has been legal in the Netherlands since the 30's and according to the consumption stats, the Dutch use the recreational drug the least. Not one recorded fatality has occurred from the use of marijuana, yet alcohol and tobacco are severe killers and they're still available.

What are you thoughts? Should it be available for purchase, legally?

because goverments have'nt found a way to tax it yet.. You can be sure that when they find a way to tax it, they will pacage it and sell in shops...

Catsmokinpot

It's certainly not illegal for our safety, governments do not and have never given a **** about our safety. they give a **** about public approval, social engineering and trying to make us do what they want.

I don't really want to get into this argument again, it's just so infuriating that you cant smoke without being a criminal.

English police raid 'Cannabis farm' after seeing heat source from from helicopter. However they discovered that the heat source was coming from two heaters used to keep guinea pigs warm. Police apologised to the guinea pigs owner for any distress caused.

So moral of story is, unless they want to keep terrorising guinea pigs, marijuana should be legal.
Save the guinea pigs...




heres the story

http://web.orange.co.uk/article/quirkies/Guinea_pigs_mistaken_for_pot_farm