Independant Mature Candidates must have graduated 3 years ago

seadnamac

45772 wrote: »

having just looked again at the studentfinance.ie website, it appears to me that its the "mature candidate dependent on parents" that is affected by the " re-entry after 3 year break from studies" and not the independent mature candidate or does " re-entry" apply in both scenarios???

It applies in both scenarios. It's not worded very well to be honest and this creates a lot of the confusion.

I am Over 23 Years of Age on 01 January 2010
You are eligible to apply for a grant if you meet either of the following conditions:

• I am entering an approved postgraduate course* for the first time in the 2010-11 academic year
  
  OR

• I am entering an approved postgraduate course* in 2010-11 to complete it (for the first time), having previously been a candidate dependent on parents or legal guardians, an after a break of three years or more, having previously entered an approved course*.

*Approved under either the Higher Education Grants Scheme or the Vocational Education Committee Scholarship Scheme.

Note: If you previously attempted an approved postgraduate course but did not successfully complete it and are now, following a break in your studies of at least five years, returning to pursue an approved course at the same level in 2010-11, you are still considered eligible to apply for a grant.

I was under the impression that I (and probably everyone else on this thread) qualified under the first criteria because I was doing a post graduate for the first time (having previously done an undergrad). But apparently that's not the case and I have to be considered under the second criteria, which I don't meet because I haven't been out of education for three years. It really is not very clear.

45772

I agree te wording is ridiculous...its like as tho' they have it orchestrated in such a way to deter a certain amount of people from applying.

I have been on to citzens Information and apparently mature candidate dependent on parents for whom it has been less than three years since studying last is still deemed okay to apply for a Higher Education Grant provided its an approved course

seadnamac

45772 wrote: »

I agree te wording is ridiculous...its like as tho' they have it orchestrated in such a way to deter a certain amount of people from applying.

I have been on to citzens Information and apparently mature candidate dependent on parents for whom it has been less than three years since studying last is still deemed okay to apply for a Higher Education Grant provided its an approved course

Yea you can definitely still get a grant, it's just that it will de dependant on your parents income, regardless of how many years you've lived away from home and/or supported yourself independantly.

Annasopra

USI are holding Grant Information Evenings - if you can go along and try and out what the story is at some of these

Annasopra

Dept of Education gives these definitions

http://www.education.ie/servlet/blobservlet/he_heg_scheme.pdf?language=EN

"mature candidate" means a candidate who is at least 23 years of age on the 1st of January of the year of entry or re-entry to an approved course;

"independent mature candidate" means a mature candidate who was not ordinarily resident with his/her parents or legal guardian from 1 October, 2009;

"re-entering" means entering as a mature candidate following a break of at least three years, having previously been a candidate dependent on parents or legal guardian, and having previously attended a course approved for the purposes of the Higher Education Grants [HEG] Scheme or the Vocational Education Committees [VEC] Scholarship Scheme

the_final_say

It's painful to say but, what is the point in arguing here? I'm in the same situation as most of you - living away from parental home 3+ years but didn't take a break between undergraduate and postgraduate study and definitely not going to qualify under the dependent means test. Unfortunately, their wording is clear and they have isolated a particular group of appicants. They will not even entertain an appeal. Apparently they are addressing some of these issues in a new student support bill, but it has been held up in the Oireachtas since 2008. I've been talking to the council, department of Education and even student affairs in the university....the best they came up with was "go to the bank or credit union and get a loan".......great, just great!

Annasopra

the_final_say wrote: »

It's painful to say but, what is the point in arguing here? I'm in the same situation as most of you - living away from parental home 3+ years but didn't take a break between undergraduate and postgraduate study and definitely not going to qualify under the dependent means test. Unfortunately, their wording is clear and they have isolated a particular group of appicants. They will not even entertain an appeal. Apparently they are addressing some of these issues in a new student support bill, but it has been held up in the Oireachtas since 2008. I've been talking to the council, department of Education and even student affairs in the university....the best they came up with was "go to the bank or credit union and get a loan".......great, just great!

the point is that this is a newly introduced rule that actually is causing huge disadvantage to some - of course there is a point in arguing it!

the_final_say

I take your point Johnny - that one should always argue against a huge injustice like this, but, the deadline is in about 2 weeks and they are not going to change the rules again. All the officials I have spoken to said there is no room for leniency on this one so until that new bill is passed, we have no hope! Depressing I know

Icarian

I've been speaking to a local TD too, and it's true, we don't have a chance in hell, the rule was designed to make less people eligible at a time when many unemployed graduates are considering earning new qualifications.

It's sneaky, cynical, underhanded, and makes no sense since social welfare payments would cost the state more, but theres nothing we can do. It makes me incredibly angry, but I'm just going to have to get a loan, staying on jobseekers for another year is just not an option...

I hate this country so much...

ixus

This is very unfortunate as I managed to avail of this grant a couple of years ago.

May I suggest that some posters think a little outside the box i.e. outside Ireland.

As an EU citizen, you will be entitled to grants in other countries.

For example, you can do a 2 year Masters in Economics in Toulouse (through English) in a reputable college for something like 500 euro courtesy of the French government.

Similar grants apply in Holland, Denmark etc.

I wish I knew of this opportunity when I was looking to do a Masters!

ixus

Courses taught in English at Universite Toulouse.

Fees:

Cost and financial aids
TSE is a public university programme and fees are very low (between 250€ and 400€ per year + 200€ for the mandatory public health insurance). Students will need at least 700€ to 800€ per month to cover all living expenses (accommodation, meals, transports, etc.)

seadnamac

ixus wrote: »

This is very unfortunate as I managed to avail of this grant a couple of years ago.

May I suggest that some posters think a little outside the box i.e. outside Ireland.

As an EU citizen, you will be entitled to grants in other countries.

For example, you can do a 2 year Masters in Economics in Toulouse (through English) in a reputable college for something like 500 euro courtesy of the French government.

Similar grants apply in Holland, Denmark etc.

I wish I knew of this opportunity when I was looking to do a Masters!

To follow up on this, just a quick google came up with this list of courses...

http://www.study-info.eu/FLDP.aspx?show=proglist&gid=13&fid=2

panda100

Ixus, thats excellent advice.
Im seriously considering doing my social work masters in the UK now.I grew up in London so Im sure Il slot back in pretty easily over there

Wouldn't it be a bit late to apply now though?

Icarian wrote: »

I've been speaking to a local TD too, and it's true, we don't have a chance in hell, the rule was designed to make less people eligible at a time when many unemployed graduates are considering earning new qualifications.

It's sneaky, cynical, underhanded, and makes no sense since social welfare payments would cost the state more, but theres nothing we can do. It makes me incredibly angry, but I'm just going to have to get a loan, staying on jobseekers for another year is just not an option...

I hate this country so much...

Yeah my td's said pretty much the same thing. In the long run the government are really shooting themselves in the foot. Those in the higher education dept in DCC also seem genuinely upset at the new rule. They told me that its difficult having to turn away very eligible candidates for the the grant on an unfair technicality.

moretothegirl

this really is such a confusing rule, can somebody just clarify my position for me.... I am starting a postgrad september 2011 (not this sept).... I will be 23 by January 2011 so Im then a mature student?.... but I am actually still living at home so im okay with being assessed on my parents income.... I just want to clarify that even though im 23 i can still actually apply and be assessed on my parents income without the break of 3 years from college..... I wont get to do the postgrad if i dont get a grant so i need to still be able to apply!

seadnamac

moretothegirl wrote: »

this really is such a confusing rule, can somebody just clarify my position for me.... I am starting a postgrad september 2011 (not this sept).... I will be 23 by January 2011 so Im then a mature student?.... but I am actually still living at home so im okay with being assessed on my parents income.... I just want to clarify that even though im 23 i can still actually apply and be assessed on my parents income without the break of 3 years from college..... I wont get to do the postgrad if i dont get a grant so i need to still be able to apply!

Yes you can still apply for grant under your parents income.

joeKel73

Johnnymcg wrote: »

Dept of Education gives these definitions

http://www.education.ie/servlet/blobservlet/he_heg_scheme.pdf?language=EN

"mature candidate" means a candidate who is at least 23 years of age on the 1st of January of the year of entry or re-entry to an approved course;

"independent mature candidate" means a mature candidate who was not ordinarily resident with his/her parents or legal guardian from 1 October, 2009;

"re-entering" means entering as a mature candidate following a break of at least three years, having previously been a candidate dependent on parents or legal guardian, and having previously attended a course approved for the purposes of the Higher Education Grants [HEG] Scheme or the Vocational Education Committees [VEC] Scholarship Scheme

I was hoping to get a grant as an independent mature candidate for a masters course I got offered and meant to be starting in September. I found out about this rule from someone in the county council, despite not finding it documented anywhere! Even the above definitions don't mean I can't get it from where I'm sitting.

Firstly I'm over 23 and not resident with my parents. I finished my undergrad in Civil Engineering in May but there's no work out there so hoping to start a master in Software development in September.

The above clause about the 3year gap only applies to those "re-entering" surely? I'm not re-entering... I'm entering for the first time!!! Does anyone know anywhere it says this applies to people applying for the first time too? The pressure is really on now as the college wants a €500 deposit for acceptance of the offer by Thursday... Don't fancy throwing €500 down the drain.

I'll not get a grant based on my parents income and I don't think they should be involved in this at all. The alternative is to cost the state more as an unemployed person and try get work for free, for experience.

panda100

foto joe wrote: »

I was hoping to get a grant as an independent mature candidate for a masters course I got offered and meant to be starting in September. I found out about this rule from someone in the county council, despite not finding it documented anywhere! Even the above definitions don't mean I can't get it from where I'm sitting.

Firstly I'm over 23 and not resident with my parents. I finished my undergrad in Civil Engineering in May but there's no work out there so hoping to start a master in Software development in September.

The above clause about the 3year gap only applies to those "re-entering" surely? I'm not re-entering... I'm entering for the first time!!! Does anyone know anywhere it says this applies to people applying for the first time too? The pressure is really on now as the college wants a €500 deposit for acceptance of the offer by Thursday... Don't fancy throwing €500 down the drain.

I'll not get a grant based on my parents income and I don't think they should be involved in this at all. The alternative is to cost the state more as an unemployed person and try get work for free, for experience.

Joe will you not get a grant as an independent mature student beacuse you only graduated in May.

I graduated in May 2008 and this is my first time applying for a post grad but I have been refused the grant because you have to have a break of at least 3 years between your first degree and postgrad.
You can only apply as a dependent mature student.i.e on your parents income.

It majorly sucks.

joeKel73

Yeah it's not looking good. But can anyone point to where in any documentation about people entering for the first time, and not just re-entering?

seadnamac

foto joe wrote: »

Yeah it's not looking good. But can anyone point to where in any documentation about people entering for the first time, and not just re-entering?

That's the thing you're not entering for the first time as you have been in college before, therefore you are re-entering the third level education system.

I'm in the exact same boat myself and we haven't a hope.

Annasopra

foto joe wrote: »

The above clause about the 3year gap only applies to those "re-entering" surely? I'm not re-entering... I'm entering for the first time!!!

You have a degree therefore you are under the definition above re-entering

panda100

foto joe wrote: »

Yeah it's not looking good. But can anyone point to where in any documentation about people entering for the first time, and not just re-entering?

The only time I saw documentation on this new rule was when I received the letter refusing me the grant.
I think it is written somewhere on the Higher education website and was highlighted somewhere earlier in this thread.

Joeyjoejoejr

Ok, I know this could really backfire, but peoples advice might deter me from doing it, im desperate..

I've been on JA for 24 months now, never rocked the boat, never been late signing on etc. And i have never received any correspondence from the social welfare office regarding FAS courses etc.

I live in Galway and have been accepted for a Masters in Coleraine, paid my 600 euro deposit and since had my grant application bounced back at me as I dont qualify anymore (im 25 and graduated in 2008) cause of those eejits in Leinster House. Applying as a dependant on my parents (who i havent spoken to in years) is not an option as they earn too much.

What I want to know is if i say nothing, keep signing on every month and (fraudulantly i know) claiming the dole, what are the chances of being caught? eg. do they have a process for checking students from the republic's names and dates of birth studying in the north with social welfare records in the south (eg me in galway)??

I'm screwed and already in debt.. thanks in advance

lucilou

i really feel for those excluded by this new "3 Year Rule" its totally discriminating and basically in violation of Art 42 of Constitution!!! i am waiting to hear from my Co. council I need a letter of grant approval and my Council arent budging...I have sent in my completed application since first week in July...Called in last week the supervisor was on holidays and back this monday...still havent heard anything..My college ( the law society) have a strict deadline and I need this letter otherwise i lose my place..What should I do...Any advise....I graduated 2007...( skin of my teeth)!!!!!

Yag reuoY

lucilou wrote: »

i really feel for those excluded by this new "3 Year Rule" its totally discriminating and basically in violation of Art 42 of Constitution!!! i am waiting to hear from my Co. council I need a letter of grant approval and my Council arent budging...I have sent in my completed application since first week in July...Called in last week the supervisor was on holidays and back this monday...still havent heard anything..My college ( the law society) have a strict deadline and I need this letter otherwise i lose my place..What should I do...Any advise....I graduated 2007...( skin of my teeth)!!!!!

Go into the building and demand a letter there and then. You just cannot rely on these people not to screw you over - I have a feeling they are being instructed to do this in order to save funds.

panda100

Lucilou, you have to go in and just demand the letter. As Yag said they are doing this on purpose hoping people will just give up and won't go back to college and wont collect the grant.

You have to just go in and harass them and refuse to leave until you get the letter. You are a citizen of this country and when using its services you should not be treated like this. I sent my grant application in around the same time and I received a letter back from them more than three weeks ago, so you should have a letter by now.

beanieboo

seadnamac wrote: »

Yes you can still apply for grant under your parents income.

Hi, I am fuming at this new rule!!! I graduated in 2008, and have applied for a masters starting this sept, I have paid my €500 and sent in acceptance form with grant application form along with other documents. I have been living away from home since oct 2008, so have applied as an 'independent mature student'. I previously recieved the grant for my undergrad course as a dependent mature student.

I dropped in my application form on tuesday saying I was an 'independent', my question is: If I get the application form back and change it to dependent mature student will I be entitled to the grant, as I got it this way before?

Annasopra

beanieboo wrote: »

Hi, I am fuming at this new rule!!! I graduated in 2008, and have applied for a masters starting this sept, I have paid my 500 and sent in acceptance form with grant application form along with other documents. I have been living away from home since oct 2008, so have applied as an 'independent mature student'. I previously recieved the grant for my undergrad course as a dependent mature student.

I dropped in my application form on tuesday saying I was an 'independent', my question is: If I get the application form back and change it to dependent mature student will I be entitled to the grant, as I got it this way before?

maybe yes, maybe no, we don't know what your parents earn so we can't answer

beanieboo

Well I was entitled to it as an undergrad, and their circumstances haven't changed since then. So if change my status to 'Dependent', even though my home address has not been with my parents for a few years; so technically I am 'independent'.

Annasopra

beanieboo wrote: »

Well I was entitled to it as an undergrad, and their circumstances haven't changed since then. So if change my status to 'Dependent', even though my home address has not been with my parents for a few years; so technically I am 'independent'.

I think so - but maybe ring the county council and ask them

Strictly

If you call them up and explain you should have no problem. You had a Grant as an Under Grad so the three year gap does not effect you, as you say your parents income has not gone over the limit!